Is it Permissible to Talk to ones Fiancée over the Telephone?

**Re.TiReD** · 10-21-2008

Answered by

the Muhadith, the ‘Allaama, Shaykh of Hadeeth

Muhammad Nasr ud-Deen al-Albaani

Translated by

Abbas Abu Yahya

This is a translation of the transcript of a question that was asked to Shaykh al-Albaani - may Allaah have mercy upon him.

Shaykh: Yes

Questioner: Assalamu alaykum

Shaykh: wa Alaykum Assalamu wa Rahmatullaahi wa Baraktuhu

Questioner: If you don't mind is the noble Shaykh al-Albaani there?

Shaykh: He's with you.

Questioner: Good, if you would allow me O Shaykh I have some questions to ask.

Shaykh: Go ahead.

Questioner: Is it permissible to talk to my fiancée over the phone?

Shaykh: have you contracted the marriage yet or not?

Questioner: not yet.

Shaykh: It's not permissible.

Questioner: Not permissible??

Shaykh: Not allowed.

Questioner: Even if it's for advice?

Shaykh: it's not permissible.

Questioner: ok is it permissible for me to visit her and sit with her if the Mahram is present?

Shaykh: with a Mahram being present and she comes in front of you wearing a Jilbaab in Hijab, like when she goes out, then it's allowed, otherwise no.

Questioner: is it possible for her to uncover her face?

Shaykh: it's possible, if it's only the face.

Questioner: only the face?

Shaykh: She shouldn't wear a beautified dress and a short dress etc.

Questioner: ok regarding sitting with her, what is permissible for me to talk to her about?

Shaykh: Do not talk to her except with what you would talk to with other than her.

Questioner: Ok if she asks me for a picture of me, is it ok to give it to her or not?

Shaykh: just like if you asked her for her picture.

Questioner: yes??

Shaykh: I said just like if you asked her for her picture.

Questioner: yeah.

Shaykh: Is it permissible?

Questioner: No.

Shaykh: and my answer is also no.

Questioner: your answer is no??

Shaykh: no, definitely no.

Questioner: about what??

Shaykh: About what! For the same thing what you said, that you cannot ask her for her picture.

Questioner: yeah.

Shaykh: understand?

Questioner: yeah, yes.

Shaykh: If you understand then stick to it.

Questioner: But O Shaykh sometimes a person is forced to phone her, is this permissible?

Shaykh: I don’t think there is a need, you want to marry her don’t you?

Questioner: For example, is it permissible to phone her for the possibility that I can visit her, at such and such time?

Shaykh: why do want to visit her?! What's the difference between her and any other woman?

Questioner: Do you mean it's not allowed to visit her?

Shaykh: O my brother, I say to you what's the difference between her and any other woman? Why do you want to visit her? You want to marry her; you marry her by requesting it from her guardian.

Questioner: If her guardian is present?

Shaykh: You want to marry her, you marry her by requesting her guardian, if there is an original agreement then you can visit her if the guardian is present, to see her and she sees you, as for visiting her then no!

Questioner: It's still not allowed to visit even after the engagement?

Shaykh: After the engagement?

Questioner: Yeah.

Shaykh: She remains to be a stranger to you O brother until you perform the marriage contract.

Questioner: Thank you, may Allaah reward you O Shaykh.

Shaykh: And you.

Questioner: May Allaah be generous to you.

Shaykh: May Allaah protect you… Sallamu alayk.

Questioner: Assalamu alaykum

Shaykh: Wa Alaykum Assalamu wa Rahmatullaahi wa Baraktuhu

Taken from: Silsilah Huda wa Noor, tape no. 269 at 10mins

**Re.TiReD** · 10-25-2008

Originally Posted by Abu Sayyad

This is the thing ukthi. Sometimes we confuse our understanding of 'hayaa' and modesty with what our culture defines for us, meaning that what we think is hayaa is actually from our culture and not from the religion. Our religion isn't black and white, there are shades of gray and there are things that are allowed whilst the Islamic ettiquete are properly observed. Directly proposing is one of them - it is completely permissible for a man to directly propose to a woman and vice versa. Sure, culture might play a role, but that doesn't neccasarily mean that it is haraam. Shaykh Anwar once said in one of his lectures - he said that the Prophetic generation was more liberal than the conservatives of today, and more conservative than the liberals of today. Meaning, there was balance in their lives, in all aspects, including gender relations.

Akhee

JazakAllah khayr, I meant thats the way I felt before coming across that hadeeth. I totally understand now.

Anyway, dont you guys think you're going off-topic? If you wanna find halal ways of finding a partner I think you should make a new thread for it

WassalamuAlaykum

**Ibn Abi Ahmed** · 10-25-2008

Originally Posted by SixTen

Brother, you still didn't give an example. To notice qualities and so fourth - would require some kind of free mixing interaction.

No bro, not necessarily. I gave you the example of Jabir r.a. when he proposed. That was done in an Islamic environment.

You have any anecdotes to share? Because I am sure, due to a westernised setting, or an unislamic settings, scenarios which would not exist in the perfect Islamic society would have been the causes in my utmost opinion.

Plus I think we're on different pages here when we're using the word 'like'. What a person likes and is attracted to is relative and can easily happen without interaction. Sometimes it can be through hearing about the person, it can be a glance, it can be normal talk without crossing the boundaries.

Originally Posted by Ramlah

but i would personally advice sisters to do it through family, etc not because of a hayaa thing, but he may react as above...OR at the very least, get a vague idea through a mutual friend or something of what he would think of a direct proposal...i mean background info is always good, so that you know what your in for.

and even that its permissible, not every one thinks/acts like the sahabis

I'd advise them to do as per their cultural norms because of the disastrous results it can have otherwise, like you said, she'd be 'the talk of the town' - and in desi culture, I can attest that yeah, that would definetly be the case.

**Re.TiReD** · 10-25-2008

Originally Posted by Abu Sayyad

Plus I think we're on different pages here when we're using the word 'like'. What a person likes and is attracted to is relative and can easily happen without interaction. Sometimes it can be through hearing about the person, it can be a glance, it can be normal talk without crossing the boundaries.

That's what I've been trying to get across before aswell

JazakAllah khayr

**barney** · 10-25-2008

Isnt it the case that if you were talking over the phone you might find something attractive about the other persons voice? Not their speech content , but their actual voice?

**Re.TiReD** · 10-25-2008

Originally Posted by barney

Isnt it the case that if you were talking over the phone you might find something attractive about the other persons voice? Not their speech content , but their actual voice?

Yup

Al-Ahzab (The Confederates)

33:32 O wives of the Prophet! You are not like any of the [other] women, provided that you remain [truly] conscious of God. Hence, be not over-soft in your speech, lest any whose heart is diseased should be moved to desire [you]: but, withal, speak in a kindly way.

**barney** · 10-25-2008

So in summary the tone of voice should hence be very matter of fact, blunt and not give any intonation that may cause attraction.
The Call must be neccessery and unavoidable.(which I cant think of a situation where that would be the case, you could always get your family to call and pass on the message)
The subject matter must not be trivial or flirtatious.

**Re.TiReD** · 10-25-2008

Originally Posted by barney

So in summary the tone of voice should hence be very matter of fact, blunt and not give any intonation that may cause attraction.
The Call must be neccessery and unavoidable.(which I cant think of a situation where that would be the case, you could always get your family to call and pass on the message)
The subject matter must not be trivial or flirtatious.

Got it in one

**Danah** · 10-26-2008

okay I did not check all the replies but here is my opinion on the issue

actually I am not a fan of talking to the fiancee or fiance before marriage, simply because, the majority of them are not acting as they are in the reality. everyone is trying to be looks good, they always show their good side and trying to be kind to the other.
many couples discovered after the marriage the true personality of their mates
for me I dont think that I will let that happen in the future

but above all of this, those two are not married yet so they there is no point from doing so

**SixTen** · 10-26-2008

Originally Posted by SAYA

okay I did not check all the replies but here is my opinion on the issue

actually I am not a fan of talking to the fiancee or fiance before marriage, simply because, the majority of them are not acting as they are in the reality. everyone is trying to be looks good, they always show their good side and trying to be kind to the other.
many couples discovered after the marriage the true personality of their mates
for me I dont think that I will let that happen in the future

but above all of this, those two are not married yet so they there is no point from doing so

Actually, this is one of the scarier things of arranged marriage. How does one really know that person, in such short period of time? It is too easy to think your in love, when your in lust and just get married and after maybe a week or month or so - you get tired of eachother, find out your not really compatible - but with divorce being very looked down upon, you may end up sticking up with it for the rest of your life

And as you stated, it is commonly known that - people rarely act themselves - around potential wife/husband, heck most start acting strange just meeting people who they find attractive.

**Re.TiReD** · 10-26-2008

^ Agreed.

To be fair, I think it's like that with any sort of marriage. When you're looking to please somebody, to impress them...people most often than not we put on an act, a facade...I guess it's best to do some background research into the person and ask the people who know the individual well.

**SixTen** · 10-26-2008

Originally Posted by JolieFleur

^ Agreed.

To be fair, I think it's like that with any sort of marriage. When you're looking to please somebody, to impress them...people most often than not we put on an act, a facade...I guess it's best to do some background research into the person and ask the people who know the individual well.

It could be the lesser of 2 evils. I mean, if it was allowed that everyone can have temporary relationships to see if they are compatible (aka Mut'ah), all the problems that you see, due to zina, would be rampant.

I guess, the idea is, that everyone should be bought up mannered, patient and so fourth. As long as the couple are attracted, maybe they can get along fine in life.

Not like any couple won't have problems, or get tired of eachother now and then eh?

Allah knows best.

**barney** · 10-26-2008

Hmm. I went out with and lived with Mrs Barney for 4 years before marriage. I dont think I got to really know her for about 16 years.

**Danah** · 10-26-2008

Originally Posted by SixTen

Actually, this is one of the scarier things of arranged marriage. How does one really know that person, in such short period of time? It is too easy to think your in love, when your in lust and just get married and after maybe a week or month or so - you get tired of eachother, find out your not really compatible - but with divorce being very looked down upon, you may end up sticking up with it for the rest of your life

And as you stated, it is commonly known that - people rarely act themselves - around potential wife/husband, heck most start acting strange just meeting people who they find attractive.

yeah...soo right
its just a temporary period of time while every one try to be the best in front of the other...........no one will show his/her true responsibility to the other,

thats why many married people miss their engagement days.
I heard many people after marriage said that they find their partners changed a lot after the nikah...but the fact is that they did not change at all, but their true personalities were appeared

**Re.TiReD** · 10-26-2008

Originally Posted by SixTen

It could be the lesser of 2 evils. I mean, if it was allowed that everyone can have temporary relationships to see if they are compatible (aka Mut'ah), all the problems that you see, due to zina, would be rampant.

I guess, the idea is, that everyone should be bought up mannered, patient and so fourth. As long as the couple are attracted, maybe they can get along fine in life.

Not like any couple won't have problems, or get tired of eachother now and then eh?

Allah knows best.

Hmm, I'm not sure why you mentioned the lesser of the two evils part but yeah...you're right in a way. BUT even if attraction is sky-high...the attitude and character of a life-partner needs to be compatible also in my opinion.

Anyway I think this threads is past it's sell-by date. May Allah (swt) grant you and us all pious spouses. Ameen.

**Re.TiReD** · 10-26-2008

Originally Posted by barney

Hmm. I went out with and lived with Mrs Barney for 4 years before marriage. I dont think I got to really know her for about 16 years.

Lol. I think thats just the changing nature of man that's all. We change throughout our lives. It's possible you knew her before marriage but knew her in a different way after 16 years.

**SixTen** · 10-26-2008

Originally Posted by JolieFleur

Hmm, I'm not sure why you mentioned the lesser of the two evils part but yeah...you're right in a way. BUT even if attraction is sky-high...the attitude and character of a life-partner needs to be compatible also in my opinion.

Anyway I think this threads is past it's sell-by date. May Allah (swt) grant you and us all pious spouses. Ameen.

I meant that, the potential problems you can have through not knowing a partner enough - may not be as bad - as the problems that are caused with dating and non-committed relationships etc.

**Danah** · 10-26-2008

Originally Posted by JolieFleur

^ Agreed.

To be fair, I think it's like that with any sort of marriage. When you're looking to please somebody, to impress them...people most often than not we put on an act, a facade...I guess it's best to do some background research into the person and ask the people who know the individual well.

I dont think that doing some background research will help a lot...there is nothing accurate as living with the person in the same place to know their personalities.
and yeah....every one want to bless the other on that period. but becuase everyone is overdo it, it just make the other part to think like wow I will live with that person for the rest of my life?
it just let them have high expectations of how their life will be with the partner, which will crumble all that at the end