Mixed Marriages...

format_quote Originally Posted by Ameena*

You are islamically considered black, you're not disregarding your mother's lineage, you just follow that of your fathers.

There was this black guy, married a white woman, had a son, who according to you would be considered black. He then married a woman, had a son, who according to what you say would also be considered black. The line could go on and on, a completely white child would be considered black.
Doesn't make to much sense to me..

format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Zaara

Aleykum selam we rahmetallahu,

Wha... Are you serious? Does that even sound fair/sane to you? I know Islam is logical and that isn't. That's something completely new to me and very alien, that's not what I have been taught at all. First time I even heard of it. :S

With all due respect sister, Islam is not supposed to be logical and it does not depend on whether you think parts of it are ''alien'' or not. That's just the way it is.

format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Zaara

In many cases Islam is logical and fair in many levels, that what you told me just sounds like racism or even nationalism, which islam is suppoused to be withot. Proove it to me then, tell me who told you this and what evidence they put forth. I am going to ask my teacher inshaAllah, I am quite willing to learn and wanna know what I have missed, 'cause that's quite big.

How is it unfair to be considered what your father is? And who says you disregard what your mother is? Nobody, you just put that into the equation.

Islam = father's lineage
Judaism = mother's lineage.

In most cultures, the tribe is carried on by the males side, so if he gives birth to daughters, then she will be what her father is. The boy carries on the tribes name, or the family name, that's why you see boys being so prized in many cultures because no matter who they marry their kids will be their tribe. As for the daughters, they're usually given a man, most likely of the same tribe, so she can give birth to kids that will carry on her tribes name. Sometimes though, a woman is disowned because she ''married out of her tribe''. And why is that? Because the kids won't be of lineage, but of her husbands.

This has nothing to do with nationalism or racism, who says one feels superior to another person or hates another person based on race or nationality? Lol, you're just following your father's lineage (I think the word you were actually looking for was ''tribalism'', but even so, that doesn't
fit what we're talking about).

format_quote Originally Posted by Ameena*

How is it unfair to be considered what your father is? And who says you disregard what your mother is? Nobody, you just put that into the equation.

Islam = father's lineage
Judaism = mother's lineage.

In most cultures, the tribe is carried on by the males side, so if he gives birth to daughters, then she will be what her father is. The boy carries on the tribes name, or the family name, that's why you see boys being so prized in many cultures because no matter who they marry their kids will be their tribe. As for the daughters, they're usually given a man, most likely of the same tribe, so she can give birth to kids that will carry on her tribes name. Sometimes though, a woman is disowned because she ''married out of her tribe''. And why is that? Because the kids won't be of lineage, but of her husbands.

This has nothing to do with nationalism or racism, who says one feels superior to another person or hates another person based on race or nationality? Lol, you're just following your father's lineage (I think the word you were actually looking for was ''tribalism'', but even so, that doesn't
fit what we're talking about).

It's neither racism nor nationalism. It's sexism, male-ism if you will.

format_quote Originally Posted by crayon

^^I don't think I've ever heard of that before... Do you know any hadiths that corroborate what you're saying?

(to sis ameena, not whatsthepoint)

Inshaa'Allaah I'll find some.

format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Zaara

^ Yeah, sorry about nationalism, I meant to say sexism, I am reading right now about nationalism, so the terms got confused, my apologies.

That's culture not an wide-spread religion to fit all people (Islam). In my culture it isn't like that for example, but in yours for example it is, but both follow Islam, so why would something part of your culture be described as Islamic while mine wouldn't? Islamically, religiously, it doesn't say anything to it, it's culture based. You can't say it is Islamic to be called black just 'cause your Dad is black and your Mum is white, example.

Hmmm, and you know this for a fact right?

Just checking.

format_quote Originally Posted by Al-Zaara

For me absolutely it is a fact, this is how I was taught. I'll be waiting for the evidence you have for this, inshaAllah, will then show my teacher too. =)

Okay so what you're telling me is, it's a ''fact'' because you were taught that from when you were young?

format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint

There was this black guy, married a white woman, had a son, who according to you would be considered black. He then married a woman, had a son, who according to what you say would also be considered black. The line could go on and on, a completely white child would be considered black.
Doesn't make to much sense to me..

Anyone care to islamically evaluate this?

im not sure if sister ameena means this but from what i understand her to be saying: the mothers lineage is not disregarded but lets look at the example of Muhammed how far back can we go in his lineage? pretty much all the way back right. we can name his forefathers or if not, we can easily find out. How many of us can name the women from who his lineage is from?
for the tribe thing in particular, we dont have tribes so cant comment on that, but in islam a child is from his/her fathers tribe. Again the example of Muhammed can be used.

As far as religion is concerned. In Islam, the child follows the religion of the father, regardless of what the faith of the mother is. In Judaism, it's the opposite. A jew's mother's child will always be jewish.

As far as lineage is concerned this is a culture, traditions and customs aspect of the society. Generally the girl is considered marrying into so and so's family, not the other way around. It's the girl that goes to the groom's house and it is the girl that has to get used to the customs and ways of the groom's side of the family. So in a sense, the children do take after the father as far as not just religion, but culture, customs and traditions are concerned.

The belief of you belong to your father's lineage does exist in the east, and this the eastern custom belief that is common among muslims and non-muslims. A child is known by his father's name, therefore he is also known by his father's tribe, family name and heritage as well as race. Even in the west, you're more likely to hear "Son of black man" or "son of arab man" or "son of a paki" but you'll never here something like "Son of white/black/indian/arab/etc woman". That's just the way the world turns. Which is why many out there that won't marry their daughters outside of thier culture but will allow their son to since he'll be bring her into his culture and race.

This is why the pagan arabs made fun of the Prophet (saw) saying that he has only daughters and no son, so his lineage will end. But Allah made the prophet's lineage continue through his daughters and it is from this very lineage the Mahdi will come.