Educated Sisters

work in a girls school.
you get respect, money, a job, and no harassment.

sorted.

but not everyone wants to teach lil brats and hormonal teenagers like me. , i know, im strange. But hey atleast my husband dosent have to worry about me being perved on. All i have to do now is keep him in check!

format_quote Originally Posted by Amatul Wadud

My original question posed on another forum [I was going to edit the question in light of the replies made but I decided not to]



Just wondering.

Seen several marriage CV's in my time and the requirement is for the sis to be educated to degree level or going on to uni etc etc.

Alhamdulillah I'm in my second year at the mo but...If you ask most brothers they'll say they dont want their wives working after marriage. And since a degree + PGCE means a job for most of us... What is the point wanting the sis to have a degree but not wanting her to work?

Why not go for a sis who only has her A-Levels then?

Hmm?

WassalamuAlaykum

I'm not from the 'most' brothers. I don't mind if my wife works, and I say this fully realizing that whatever money she makes is lawfully hers. I'm still going to be the provider for the family Insha'Allaah. I don't have a problem with her working as long as she's not one of those kind of 'career before everything else' people or those crazy feminist-type women. Before I get my head bitten off, let me just clarify what I mean by 'feminist'. If a sister is asking for her rights that are due to her, then that's not being feminist, that's being right. I perceive feminists as those sisters that want to be liberal, do whatever they want without giving a thought to what their husbands desire. Those liberal ones that do not follow the basics of the religion and more or are two-faced etc. Likewise, I can't stand those 'men' that are at the fingertips of their wives, like puppets hanging from strings, but that's beside the point.

I believe there needs to be a balance, she can work and I'm fine with that, but I'd want her to take a break when the kids come bi'idhnillah, until they get to school-age. Because, even though I don't mind her working, I won't send our children to a babysitter. A child needs the mother especially at those crucial young ages. Regarding the sister being educated, I'd want her to be educated. I want her to have been through school and university here so that when our kids go through it, she'll be aware of what the kids are going through. There are a variety of reasons, this is just the tip of the iceberg.

I think a question that needs to be asked is: 'Will brothers marry a sister more educated than them?'

Gosh! Kindly ignore the marriage Cv part :

Lol. I havnt read any of the replies actually but the comments that popped up on the other forum were that they'd like to wife to be on the same level intellectually. And my question was, does dunya education really = intellectuality (is that even a word) ... I'm sure there are many people with degrees who are perfectly capable and intelligent and who degree-holders can relate too.

Women are allowed to have a LIFE in Islam, there is no shame about it. Any man who has issues wit that is jealous n needs his ego re-sized.

Not to mention there are SINLE Mothers who support their children..!!

If you think about it, your degree and how much you study and what, gives you a status in the society. It is as simple as that.

It depends on what you deem most important huh, status when it comes to Ilm of the Deen or worldly status amongst peers and the like. I dislike it when the desgree becomes a title, a means of boasting and nothing more. Humans can be so much more than a piece of paper at graduation.


Some think it is necessary, for example in times of need, the woman can also work (if he doesn't want her to work in "normal conditions" (meaning he works)) without the degree-problems. Or that it shows that the woman has chosen to broaden her knowledge and was/is into something, shows interest and intelect.

To study, today, doesn't just show you are smart or have the means to, but also that you have some kind of perspective in your life, you are motivated and aim somewhere, something interests you so much that you want to actually keep your nose in the books and fulfill the high quality the work demands and that you are someone who can keep the quality high for the enxt generation (educated parents want to educate their children (this is just very, very general and I am aware of several situations/factors that are not like this, same goes with precentage)).

I'm going to be playing devils advocate in all my replies so dont mind me

I think too much importance is placed on the actual title, 'degree'. What if a sister exerted all her efforts in learning the Arabic language, took regular classes at the local community centre...went to the weekly circles at the masjid, yet didnt come out with an official recognised academic degree, wouldnt you say she had a direction, an aim....motivation?

yet no degree...

format_quote Originally Posted by Muezzin

My sentiments exactly.

Does it have to be sent with a covering letter and application form?

Signed, sealed, delivered.

format_quote Originally Posted by Talha

Of course, if circumstances are such that she has to work, then her being degree educated would help her to get a good job.
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What if it came to her having to work, but because she was so inexperienced i.e. had not worked before, she was unable to get a job?

format_quote Originally Posted by Talha

Junior, as the man of the house, it would be my duty to earn the bread, there is no getting out of it, regardless of the fitna that is out there. Women, however, don't need to work (i.e. it is not obligatory upon them).

Good point.

How would brothers feel if the sis had a degree but they did not?

hmm interesting topic.
i dunno what the heck some men have got with educated sisters i mean if its because a pride thingee, you now he feels that he's the man of the house, and he has to be the one providing,etc (which yh usually results from begin educated), etc than that's cool.

but if its like "god forbid a women be educated and know how to do things the same/better then a man. oh no! cant marry an educated women, she may over take my "superiority" as a male... im the male..." blah blah blah lol and you know they take it as a "power" thingee and feel as if shes competing with him..then yh, it goes without saying, the dude's got issues

and even worse are those men stupid stupid idiot men :X who insist on their wives staying at home and raising and teaching their kids (not a bad thing itself), when she herself is not educated. i mean how the heck is that logical.

and speaking of stupid stupid idiot men, i cant stand those who prefer to marry a sister whose "blind deaf and dumb" because then shes innocent and wouldn't know how to "fight back" and falls for everything her user of a husband says/does to her he just plays with her mind, because shes just so...innocent. as mentioned b4: at his finger tips like a puppet...
im sorry, but you just dont think of your wife like that! How degrading!

education is so important for both males and females! you need education. i dont necessarily mean an academic one either. just general knowledge about how things in the world work, etc! you know people look stupid because they are prevented from valuable knowledge. knowledge which is so reachable. but anyway, we're talking about something else here

format_quote Originally Posted by Amatul Wadud

What is the point wanting the sis to have a degree but not wanting her to work?

i think with some bros its a pride thing. he feels hes the man of the house, so he has to be the provider.

format_quote Originally Posted by Amatul Wadud

And my question was, does dunya education really = intellectuality (is that even a word) ...

absolutely not... btw, by "dunya education," you mean academically educated, right?...because to me you don't have to be academically educated to be intelligent.

format_quote Originally Posted by Ramlah

absolutely not... btw, by "dunya education," you mean academically educated, right?...because to me you don't have to be academically educated to be intelligent.

Exactly!!

I mean a sister might have ilm of the deen to the highest level and might be intellectual and intelligent enough to refute even the most hardcore of nonmuslims yet be without a degree. How does that hold up?

(lol sorry just felt like using that emo )

Selam aleykum we rahmetallahu,

I'm gonna address some points and then maybe slowly but steadily leave this thread, inshaAllah.

format_quote Originally Posted by Amatul Wadud

It depends on what you deem most important huh, status when it comes to Ilm of the Deen or worldly status amongst peers and the like. I dislike it when the desgree becomes a title, a means of boasting and nothing more. Humans can be so much more than a piece of paper at graduation.

I never claimed status is the most important. Status is made out of many things in today's sociaty, money, your degree, where you live, what you do, what you wear, where you go, what you eat... etc.

Humans are so much more, no question about that. I honestly doubt the brothers or sisters who put "degree" as an important factor, think about it just as an boost or show off. The degree shows so much more, as you can see what I described in my post, or what BintAmjad said or what Abu Sayyad said.

I'm going to be playing devils advocate in all my replies so dont mind me

You're gonna play me? How sweet.

I think too much importance is placed on the actual title, 'degree'. What if a sister exerted all her efforts in learning the Arabic language, took regular classes at the local community centre...went to the weekly circles at the masjid, yet didnt come out with an official recognised academic degree, wouldnt you say she had a direction, an aim....motivation?
yet no degree...

Definitely yes. I have no idea what kind of situations you have encountered, but that definitely screams motivation and what she has chosen in this life. But you have to understand and really accept, what an offical academic degree can do for you, in this country, in this world.

What you just described gives you a status aswell, I'm saying this just so you'll see status is not always that assumed ego-boost issue but something we all have through our lives. I'm a student, that's a status aswell, like any other kid here in my city. But somewhere in the poor areas of Africa, my simple student status gets a higher worth, 'cause being a student there shows intellect and power, etc. Doing all the things you described will show a strong status, probably not on the academic side, but in the notice of the Muslims in the area.

I mean a sister might have ilm of the deen to the highest level and might be intellectual and intelligent enough to refute even the most hardcore of nonmuslims yet be without a degree. How does that hold up?

Of course that's important, actually, it can be so very important, especially if a man seeks a woman who can always support their children's Islamic knowledge. Although she might not have such an official academic degree, doesn't mean she can't read or write.
It is just simply something our sociaty demands. The intellectuals of all times used to study lots of things at the same time. 'Cause true intelligence is broad and wide, it is not simply concentrated on one thing, of course you might have specialities, but it won't get you far to just have them, 'cause people's common knowledge constantly improves, so you have to imrove yours just aswell, to stay updated. ('Cause knowledge is constantly updated.)

If one chooses to become a housewife and taking care of the kids, which is one of the most demanding works out there, she'd be so much better off having knowledge in lots of things, for at the end of the day, one does want to have a child whose knowledge is high. For high knowledge just makes you see the world more differently, it makes you appreciate and know and learn more and discover more.

An example I must give, so that people understand, that piece of paper you've worked for half of your life, needs an addition to it: People constantly get high degrees here in Finland, so nowadays I've seen, the practical is highlighted even more than before, 'cause we end up with a bunch of degrees and no or very low practical experienced people.

A balance is needed, you know, balance is the key, to almost anything in life.

Bi'idhnillah I could help you.

Some good ones from the other thread:

I guess being intellectually compatible means having the same sort of educational background which helps with the understanding you both have? having gone through the same sort of format of being taught? It may also form similar judgments and perceptions one may hold due to the experience of obtaining the education, at a degree level?

Wanting to marry educated sisters, would also benefit the upbringing of future children, I dunno..but I guess, at the end of the day, having a degree would signify the level of intellect one has without fully knowing a person.

It shouldn't be a deciding factor when marrying someone because at the end of the day one doesn't need to be educated at a degree level to be intellectually compatible to you, and there are many marriages which exemplify this. You could always teach her any new things you might want her to know if it is of benefit to your marriage/relationship.

And more importantly, the level of knowledge one has of the deen is of much more importance and I guess this should be the primary concern of brothers wanting to marry 'educated' sisters.

Maybe bro's are different before marriage and after they're married.

Most bro's I know would like to be the ones to provide for their wives and would rather their wives take care of things at home. But then again, I dont know many bro's

Not really. I think it's a lot more to do with finding out if someone is passionate about knowledge.

Having been to university and done a decent subject shows that you're not afraid of learning and studying. Alternatively you could have not gone to university and instead studied your deen, or studied another subject at home. That's just as admirable, provided you can show that you weren't just a lout...waiting to get married. Or you could have gone to an Islamic institution. It doesn't matter - most people look for that passion...which if lacking shows that you're intellectually dead.

i have seen many "dumb" men and women with degrees, no manners, dont know how to talk, know next to nothing about islam and dont try to either.

Not all are like this but for those who put degrees at the forefront of their "wants" on the marriage CV....well hope all goes well with that one...

Salaam,

There are many aspects to consider for the reason why a brother may want to have his prospective to be university educated:

1. He may want her to work after marriage to support the family.

2. He may want himself to be assured that if anything happens to him, i.e. an accident leaving him unable to work or even death, then the wife would have greater job opportunities available to her in order to support herself and the kids on her own.

3. Aside from the job aspect now, university education opens up our mind immensely, it challenges us in many ways both with ideas brought forward in academia as well as with the interaction with people from different backgrounds and cultures. It opens our eyes and broadens our horizons.

4. Education breeds understanding and knowledge. Knowledge is power and light.

Obviously the above 4 pointers are only the things that I can think of according to my own understanding of the issue and they may not be the reasons applicable to every brother who wishes his wife to have university level education.

people are educated in different ways, having a degree proves nothing. there are people with degrees who behave like spoilt children, or have huge indestructible ego's, or well, are just not as intelligent as those who do not have degrees but ARE educated.

a lot of men these days -as well as women- just look for the degree which is so silly, because again, it doesn't prove their intelligence, or their ability to carry a good conversation and it definitly does not determine them being good people.

i believe that for a women Islamic education is the most important.

I know a brother who would like his wife to attend university but is worried about her deen being affected due to the company she may be forced to keep in her lectures.

format_quote Originally Posted by Talha

I guess what you're trying to say here is that she must constantly remain working, even when there is no need, just so that she remains experienced in her field with the possibility in mind that one day she might be forced to work?

To answer your question, there are two possibilities for her to have experience: One is that she works in a safe environment and the other is that she works in an unsafe environment.

I have nothing against her working in a fitnah free environment as long as she abides by what I mentioned in my last post. If such were the case, I would even encourage it.

But, if she insists on working in a fitnah-fied environment, just to "stay ahead of the game", when there is no critical need, then I'd wonder why I even married her. In doing such a thing, she'd be chasing the dunya and being negligent of her hereafter.
.

Uh huh that makes sense. I'm not trying to say anything really, just thinking up possibilities.

But insha'Allah things would never come to a sister being forced to work.

format_quote Originally Posted by Whatsthepoint

That's being over protecting and if I may say, underestimating.

No you may not say The husband is the wife's protector. He's her guardian angel if you like. If my husband wants to protect me to any extent I would be more than happy to let him. Saves me the trouble . However, you are not a muslim woman so I do not expect you to empathize to such a degree as to accomodate these feelings.

yeah you could compare this to free range chickens and caged chickens, the free range ones are so much happier but the caged ones are cooped up in a cage which saddens them thus producing thinner and weaker eggs!

Possession of a degree does not denote intelligence. Rather, to me, it is more indicative of dedication, hard work and possibly socio-economic status, depending on how the individual funded his or her studies.

In my opinion, the best way to accurately 'measure' someone's intelligence is to meet and talk with them.

format_quote Originally Posted by nebula

yeah you could compare this to free range chickens and caged chickens, the free range ones are so much happier but the caged ones are cooped up in a cage which saddens them thus producing thinner and weaker eggs!

I wouldn't necessarily equate university education with free range chickens.

And I say that as a person who can now sign his name with half a dozen initials after it.