advise on marrriage

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 58:
Narrated Sahl bin Sad:

A woman came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have come to you to present myself to you (for marriage)." Allah's Apostle glanced at her. He looked at her carefully and fixed his glance on her and then lowered his head. When the lady saw that he did not say anything, she sat down. A man from his companions got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! If you are not in need of her, then marry her to me." The Prophet said, "Have you got anything to offer." The man said, 'No, by Allah, O Allah's Apostle!" The Prophet said (to him), "Go to your family and try to find something." So the man went and returned, saying, "No, by Allah, O Allah's Apostle! I have not found anything." The Prophet said, "Go again and look for something, even if it were an iron ring." He went and returned, saying, "No, by Allah, O Allah's Apostle! I could not find even an iron ring, but this is my Izar (waist sheet).' He had no Rida (upper garment). He added, "I give half of it to her." Allah's Apostle said "What will she do with your Izar? If you wear it, she will have nothing over herself thereof (will be naked); and if she wears it, then you will have nothing over yourself thereof ' So the man sat for a long period and then got up (to leave). When Allah's Apostle saw him leaving, he ordered that he e called back. When he came, the Prophet asked (him), "How much of the Qur'an do you know (by heart)?" The man replied, I know such Sura and such Sura and such Sura," naming the suras. The Prophet said, "Can you recite it by heart?" He said, 'Yes." The Prophet said, "Go I let you marry her for what you know of the Quran (as her Mahr).


The man in the above hadith didn't have ANYTHING to give in dowry except Qur'an.

He is clearly not financially strong.

Did the prophet SAW see that as a reason not to be married?

No by this hadith.

Quite an interesting thread, can't believe I missed it for soo long..my marriage-thread-detecting spidey-sense malfunctioned I guess :P Anyway, I have a feeling my reply will probably tick off a few people, so in advance, it's nothing personal.

format_quote Originally Posted by sevgi

Hey kiddo,

You know what proves to me that you are not ready for marriage? The fact that you arent man enough to control yourself...if you are on the verge of committing zina, you arent old enough. Gain self control. Gain insight. digest the logic behind what zina, relationships, marriage and women are...and then go to your parents.

I'll have to agree here. What Sr. sevgi is saying makes sense. You HAVE to have self control before getting married because how do you know that you're wanting to get married for her or for your lusts? How do you know that you'll have self control after marriage? Sure, marriage does cut your desires, but it doesn't completely extinguish it. This is why the Prophet (salalahu 'alayhi wa sallam) forbade women from describing other women to their husbands because the minds of men can twist and turn very easily. How do you know that you'll be satisfied after marriage with this one girl and that you won't go seeking others? How do you know that once you're 'bored' of her, you won't divorce her and look for another wife? Believe me, I've heard of such cases, they're all way to common. Young people between (18-20) got married simply because they couldn't control their desires, they had no maturity in being able to deal with their wife later on and guess what? 1 year later, 2 years later they're divorced. The sister is left devastated and they themselves responsible. This can happen and unfortunately does happen when young people solely get married to satisfy their desires. Marriage isn't just about intercourse, there's a lot more there.

I'm not judging the thread starter, I'm being real. I'm not going to tell him what he wants to hear, others are already doing a very good job of that, I want him to take into account factors beyond his own physical desires and come to a mature decision, not one that varies according to how much desire he feels.

Remember...this woman will be ur responsibility. i hope you have enough money saved up for rainy days, for her wants and needs, incase she falls pregnant, your uni careers etc. if you depend on ur dad to handle all this...then its not fair for the girl or ur parents. or if you think u can just get the girl and force her through a simple simple marriage without any huge stability...you have got to be wary of the fact that when her frends go out etc she is gna be left out...u have to be better than anyone in the world for her...you have to make sure she doesnt feel like she is missing out on her youth. her frends will wait till they are older and they will get married...and have older successful husbands. she will be jealous. thats what women do...even if they dnt admit it. when she starts biting ur head off....you better be ready for it..

This is true. I agree with everything for the most part, except probably where you say she'll be jealous. I guess thats variable from sister to sister.

format_quote Originally Posted by RoseGold

Sis I'm sorry but I have a very strong opinion about this. Allah had tested me for the past 3/4 yrs with people judging me and patronizing me telling me I'm too youndg to be married. I'm wasting my life. I need to sort myself out first. Always telling me I'm not ready. Now Alhamdulilah it is working out. Even though some people still see it fit to attack me with verbal aggression. Alhamdulilah, that experience has filled me with understanding for others in that position. Please don't make the brother feel insignificant the way non-muslims and muslims alike made me feel.

I'm sorry you had to go through that, a lot of us who want to get married early go through much of the same because of their cultures or other reasons. I know how you feel and I'm very glad that due to your admirable patience it's working out for you Alhamdullilah. May the years coming for you be blessed and happy.

Yet, at the same time I believe there is a point when they tell us wait for marriage. You see, based on the replies in this thread, I see that there are two opposite extremes being advised to our brother. One side says he should get married because it becomes wajib on him if he feels he'll fall into zina based on a fatwa or two, and the other side is saying that he should wait till he's stable. Now, both of these sides have a point and neither are incorrect, however, neither advice, in my humble opinion, is complete.

format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude

Sevgi, a lot of what you said makes sense and is good practical advice. However, it doesn't take into the consideration that the Prophet SAW advised people to marry young and even specifically stated that if one fears zina, he should get married.

So, in light of the above, I wouldn't be too hasty in advising against marriage.

Then again, people were different back then. People at 18 were thought of as being fully grown men. Nowadays we're all conditioned into this whole 'teenager' thing, where they're not fully grown, nor are they considered children. Pfft.

Exactly! That hit the nail on the head. 18 year olds today are not the same 18 year olds at the time of the Prophet (salalahu 'alayhi wa sallam). The mentality, perception, and understanding of life is very different and advice given to them needs to be tailored in a way that'll help them not tell them ideals of what existed 1400 years ago.

I'm not a modernist, believe me, I'm quite conservative Alhamdullilah. At the same time, I like to say things as I see them and as they are even if it shatters people's bubbles and idealistic outlooks. Kids today have a completely different mentality except for a very few percentage upon whome Allaah has had mercy. Their friends are dating and having fun with women, it's all around them and therefore they develop this dating-based perspective of marriage. That it's all rosy and sweet and that once they get married they'll be able to lower their gaze and no longer have any fitnah and that if it turns bad they can just walk out. That is an ideal. Marriage isn't like that, you cannot walk away the second something turns sour and believe me things will turn sour time to time and if the person in the marriage isn't mature enough to cope and deal with it in the proper way, it'll lead to divorce which is why we have such a high divorce rate and quite a big marriage crisis in the West. The Eastern lands aren't off target either, the highest number of people that visit pornographic websites come from Muslim countries. Doesn't that speak volumes? Doesn't that mean that there are a lot of unhappy marriages because the people involved in them don't know how to deal with each other?

The people that think in idealistic ways really need to wake up. Marriage is a means, it isn't a goal. It's a means to a greater goal which is to raise a family upon the Prophetic methodology, it isn't just there to help you satisfy your desires. If it were, then Mut'ah would have been allowed, but it's haraam for a reason.

Br Yusuf, when you get married you're not getting a baby-making machine who is there only to satisify your desires, you're getting another human being who is under your complete responsibility and you will be questioned about your responsibility towards her tomorrow. Will you be able to fulfill all your obligations towards her?

format_quote Originally Posted by RoseGold

What you don't understand is that he doesn't have to be a man of his house. My husband-to-be InshAllah is 26. But he supports his mum in her house. So we will be living apart for a while. That can easily be the arrangement for brother yusuf.

Actually, he does have to be man of the house, i.e. the provider. It's wajib upon him to be able to provide for his wife and if he isn't she can ask for a divorce. For example, in the Hanafi madhab, on of the opinions is that the husband has to provide for her at the same level she was used to living before marriage and if he doesn't she can ask for a divorce.

What I'm saying is, the financial responsibility is on his head and shoulders.

The obligation of the husband is to provide shelter for his wife right? Well if she already has shelter, he isn't able to support a house of his own yet but is trying to protect himself against Zina, then he can get married and he and his wife do not have to move in together straight away. There are many cases like that sis.

Not just shelter, financial support, proper food, clothing, take care of her needs, material, physchological, physical, and spiritual.

What our brother Yusuf can do is get a nikah kitaabah and postpone his consumation. That way they'll be legally husband and wife and when he's able to provide for her, they can consumate the marriage. If the marriage is consumated it becomes his duty to take care of all her needs as well.

format_quote Originally Posted by sevgi

but bro yusufs parents are against everything...so he's gna be the soul carrier..anywhoot!

<3 peace...

Exactly. Parent's support is very important.

format_quote Originally Posted by Faizah

Islaamically, it becomes waajib to get married, not detestable or prohibitted, if someone fears of committing haraam, e.g. zinaa.

The ruling regarding marriage
*
Question: Is it obligatory (fardh) to marry or is it (simply) recommended (Sunnah)?
Response: It is an encouraged Sunnah to marry for those who are able; as the Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) said:
((O gathering of youth! Whoever among you is able to marry, should marry, because it helps him lower his gaze and guard his modesty (i.e. his private parts from committing illegal sexual intercourse etc.) and whoever is unable to marry, should fast, as fasting diminishes his sexual power)).
It is (quite) possible in respect to some people it is obligatory (to get married) if there is fear within himself that he may fall into fornication whilst he is able to afford to get married.
And with Allaah lies all success and may Allaah send prayers and salutations upon our Prophet (sal-Allaahu `alayhe wa sallam) and his family and his companions.
The Permanent Committee for Islaamic Research and Fataawa, comprising -
Head: Shaykh 'Abdul 'Azeez ibn Abdullaah ibn Baaz;
Deputy Head: Shaykh 'Abdur-Razzaaq 'Afeefee;
Member: Shaykh 'Abdullaah Ibn Ghudayyaan
Fataawa al-Lajnah ad-Daa.imah lil-Buhooth al-'Ilmiyyah wal-Iftaa. - Volume 18, Page 6, Fatwa No.9624, Question 3

Source

And Allaah Knows best.

I agree that it becomes wajib, however it also becomes wajib on him to provide for her and take care of all her needs. Like it says in the same fatwa: "whilst he is able to afford to get married." And that entails a lot of things which tend to get overlooked a lot of the time.

Second point is, rulings vary according to time and place. Generally speaking, I personally believe it's very impractical to import fatwas regarding situations unique to the West, if they're given by scholars who, as knowledgeable as they are, are exposed to and have experienced a completely different society and therefore have little idea of the other side of the world. If you read Ibn Hazm's fatawa on Hajj, you'll see what I mean.

format_quote Originally Posted by Faizah

A word of advice in return, ukhtee; logic has no place in this matter. The deen is in the athaar (narrations), not in logic. And what is marriage? It is 'ibaadah. Life isn't always living by the ayah? According to whom? I take it this is from your logic once again, but I won't repeat myself.

Forgive me but I believe that you're off to one side and the other opinion is on the other end of the spectrum, meaning that both of you are giving advice that is not incorrect and shouldn't be mutually exclusive but can be taken together. Logic (i.e. common sense) does have a play in the matter. It's very impractical to go tell someone to get married just because he feels like he can't control his desires. What about what happens after he satisfies his desires? What then? What about when he can't handle dealing with the sister and her needs?

The deen is also a matter of practicality and athaar need to be applied in accordance to the current situation. It's very impractical to quote an athaar or two and then assume that it's be and end all of everything. That's a very simplistic understanding of the religion. Majority of rulings that have been passed, even from the time of the Companions have been based on Ijtihaad (and no, I don't mean the modernist definition of the term). What I'm saying is, the person's unique situation plays a role in what he should do, along with what the deen says, along with what is practical for him.

format_quote Originally Posted by yusuf18

im afraid your wrong sister in many points you have put foward first of all every man has an urge even the profhet himself and if your saying you carnt be a man if you carnt control well thats just wrong thats why the profhet himself urged your men like ourselves to get married/and the fact that she will get jelous of her freands well i wont get that kind of girl i will get someone who is in the same path as me and wants the same thing/and the profhet at that time didnt have these rampant women walking along naked on streets or porn ect ect and also he was a profhet not like any man

May Allaah make it easy for you brother.

What you're forgetting is that that hadeeth has a condition. It speaks of whoever is able, and being able covers a lot of things. It entails being able to provide for her, being able to take care of her, her needs, etc. Can you do that?

Because you need to realize that what you're getting in marriage is not a person who's there only to satisfy your desires for you. She's a responsibility on you and you need to be able to fulfill your obligations towards her.

So my main advice to you is to fast as much as you can until you're able to take on all the responsibilities of marriage. Whenever you feel desire, take a cold shower. Ask Allaah for help, make dua' and work on forming a way to communicate your feelings to your parents. Talk to someone they'll listen to and get them to advice your parents. Be patient. You're not the only one going through these things, many of us are and what helps very much is having good righteous friends who'll keep you away from haram. To be frank, people fall into zina when they let themselves get involved too far. Cut yourself off right from the initial stages and what follows after will be further away.

Use this time to prepare for marriage, read up on it, listen to lectures and prepare yourself mentally. Be balanced, work hard and put your trust in Allaah. Believe me, it helps

format_quote Originally Posted by RoseGold

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 58:
Narrated Sahl bin Sad:

A woman came to Allah's Apostle and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I have come to you to present myself to you (for marriage)." Allah's Apostle glanced at her. He looked at her carefully and fixed his glance on her and then lowered his head. When the lady saw that he did not say anything, she sat down. A man from his companions got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! If you are not in need of her, then marry her to me." The Prophet said, "Have you got anything to offer." The man said, 'No, by Allah, O Allah's Apostle!" The Prophet said (to him), "Go to your family and try to find something." So the man went and returned, saying, "No, by Allah, O Allah's Apostle! I have not found anything." The Prophet said, "Go again and look for something, even if it were an iron ring." He went and returned, saying, "No, by Allah, O Allah's Apostle! I could not find even an iron ring, but this is my Izar (waist sheet).' He had no Rida (upper garment). He added, "I give half of it to her." Allah's Apostle said "What will she do with your Izar? If you wear it, she will have nothing over herself thereof (will be naked); and if she wears it, then you will have nothing over yourself thereof ' So the man sat for a long period and then got up (to leave). When Allah's Apostle saw him leaving, he ordered that he e called back. When he came, the Prophet asked (him), "How much of the Qur'an do you know (by heart)?" The man replied, I know such Sura and such Sura and such Sura," naming the suras. The Prophet said, "Can you recite it by heart?" He said, 'Yes." The Prophet said, "Go I let you marry her for what you know of the Quran (as her Mahr).


The man in the above hadith didn't have ANYTHING to give in dowry except Qur'an.

He is clearly not financially strong.

Did the prophet SAW see that as a reason not to be married?

No by this hadith.

You're taking the hadeeth out of context and trying to apply it into a completely different time period and setting. Seriously, was there or was there not a strong Muslim community at that time? Was there or was there not a whole tribe of people (the Ansar) taking care of each other and those who emigrated to them? Where is that today? The poor Companion would be supported by the community and get help from the richer Companions and the money of the Muslims etc. Where is that today?

format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Sayyad

I'm sorry you had to go through that, a lot of us who want to get married early go through much of the same because of their cultures or other reasons. I know how you feel and I'm very glad that due to your admirable patience it's working out for you Alhamdullilah. May the years coming for you be blessed and happy.

Jazakaalh Khayr for your blessing words

format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Sayyad

Actually, he does have to be man of the house, i.e. the provider. It's wajib upon him to be able to provide for his wife and if he isn't she can ask for a divorce. For example, in the Hanafi madhab, on of the opinions is that the husband has to provide for her at the same level she was used to living before marriage and if he doesn't she can ask for a divorce.

I do not belong to any madhab and seek advice only from people of knowledge i.e Sohaib Hassan, Muhammed Alshareef, Abdullah Hakim Quik, Abu Hanifa (the one who is alive today and appears for Q&A sessions ) etc. And there is a scholar quite close to my family who I regularly seek advice from.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Sayyad

You're taking the hadeeth out of context and trying to apply it into a completely different time period and setting. Seriously, was there or was there not a strong Muslim community at that time? Was there or was there not a whole tribe of people (the Ansar) taking care of each other and those who emigrated to them? Where is that today? The poor Companion would be supported by the community and get help from the richer Companions and the money of the Muslims etc. Where is that today?

It was not I who interpretted this hadith, but a the scholar I mentioned in my above point. I take his word due to his vast and respected knowledge. When he is in doubt he turns to the other scholars mentioned above. Therefore, I take his verdict as accurate InshAllah and he did take the context etc into consideration Alhamdulilah and still came to the same conclusion

format_quote Originally Posted by RoseGold

Jazakaalh Khayr for your blessing words

I do not belong to any madhab and seek advice only from people of knowledge i.e Sohaib Hassan, Muhammed Alshareef, Abdullah Hakim Quik, Abu Hanifa (the one who is alive today and appears for Q&A sessions ) etc. And there is a scholar quite close to my family who I regularly seek advice from.

It was not I who interpretted this hadith, but a the scholar I mentioned in my above point. I take his word due to his vast and respected knowledge. When he is in doubt he turns to the other scholars mentioned above. Therefore, I take his verdict as accurate InshAllah and he did take the context etc into consideration Alhamdulilah and still came to the same conclusion

Barakallah feek. As for the Hanafi opinion I mentioned, it was held (and probably still is) by many scholars who adhered to the hanafi madhab so it has nothing to do with whether you follow the madhab or not, but rather that many scholars held such an opinion based on the concept of 'urf as it relates to marriage and what is required by the man to give his wife; I believe there are variant opinions in the classical texts in each of the madahib as to what 'urf entails and I just gave you an example of such an opinion. As for the hadeeth, the Shaykh is obviously respected for his view and understanding of it, no doubt. At the same time, there may be other understandings that come from the hadeeth held by other scholars of similar calibre.

That is very true. For example, the concept of Niqaab. There are many scholars of high esteem found on either side of the argument

format_quote Originally Posted by yusuf18

i think this whole isue is blown up whats wrong getting married at 18 nothing at least come up with a good reason why its not / and also can someone tell me if you can put up a pic of yourself on your d.p is it alowed

If you read brother Abu Sayyad's Brilliant post , you would see the reasons.

Not just shelter, financial support, proper food, clothing, take care of her needs, material, physchological, physical, and spiritual.

Are you capable of doing that ?

Im 18 and hell no I can barely care about myself let alone someone else.

format_quote Originally Posted by yusuf18

i have seen a guy with a pic of himself over here why isnt it alowed brother

No pictures of human beings are Allowed in here.

format_quote Originally Posted by Abu Sayyad

Their friends are dating and having fun with women, it's all around them and therefore they develop this dating-based perspective of marriage. That it's all rosy and sweet and that once they get married they'll be able to lower their gaze and no longer have any fitnah and that if it turns bad they can just walk out. That is an ideal. Marriage isn't like that, you cannot walk away the second something turns sour and believe me things will turn sour time to time and if the person in the marriage isn't mature enough to cope and deal with it in the proper way, it'll lead to divorce which is why we have such a high divorce rate and quite a big marriage crisis in the West.

I totally agree with Bro Abu Sayyad's post and notion of marriage. Brother Yusuf in all total honesty you may think that the majority of people are against you getting married but they are really not. All they are doing is just looking out for you young brother. Many people here on this forum have seen life and probably have had more experience than you have in some ways. It is wise to just listen and to keep your mind open for these experiences that you have not encountered yet such as marriage.

There are pros and cons for getting married and not getting married. Use the time that you are not getting married to be closer to Allah(swt) and be closer to your family because when you get married you will have to spend alot of time with your spouse emotionally, physically and financially. Enjoy this time to have innocent fun with friends for you will not have to bear any responsibilities. What you are going through is what Allah (swt) has instilled in our heats and desires for only a very short time.

REALITY CHECK: MARRIAGE IS A FULL PACKAGE. Just as marriage is a full package for brothers, it is also a full package for sisters learning how to cook, preparing to be a good wife, lowering your gaze; learning to be a good mother for the future.....

Brother I advise you to use your innocence very well and use this time to learn more about marriage and the responsiblities before actually following your lustful desires. Of course one can use many excuses as to working with marriage like still living with your parents but believe me, when you get married you will want privacy and probably get your own house or your own space.

Not to offend anyone but brothers typically at a young age are not well established so of course one of the reasons to get married at a later age is to become establish and until then a brother cannot practically fully finance his wife unless he is living with his parents. So it is advisable for borthers to get married when they are ready to stand on their own two feet.

As for sisters, in her case since it is not her responsibility to fully finance her husband or to be in charge of the head household, it is workable or flexible to say that she can be able to get married at a younger age but more in her favor to have atleast a degree or somesort minimum highschool degree so that whatever life has to offer her ie; divorce she will not have to start over from scratch meaning that she will not have to start over and depend on her family. Might as well do it when your young right?