In the first part; It first explains how marriages took place normally at a younger age in history throughout the world with sources and quick explanations as to why this occurred.
In the second part; It discusses the marriage of Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) to Aisha, and how she wasn't really a child at all with quotes from herself to prove her adulthood.
It further explains the concept is totally different to how you imagine. And what really is meant is that some pubescents do not get their periods early [i.e. some young woman may not get their periods uptill their 20s!], however - they have matured physically in every other way. So there will be no harm that will come to them if they were to get married and have sexual relations.
The author is a medical student and on his final stages to be a doctor (insha Allah), so he knows what he's saying.
Here's a list of the contents page if you want to get a brief understanding of the books layout;
Re: Refuting the Islamophobe's claim that Prophet Muhammad was a Pedophile.
Peace
No offense to anyone,but this issue is highly sesitive, What happened to childhood? All the innocence and that stuff? I don't think it's fair stealing a child's precious moments in the name of Puberty and Maturity it should be stopped I may be wrong but it doesn't sound very healthy for a child to get married under the age of eighteen.
Men should look for women within their own age's range they should stop going after little children it's not good.
Just my own opinion it may not be objective or anything and I didn't say this to start a debate, I respect all the former posts.
Re: Refuting the Islamophobe's claim that Prophet Muhammad was a Pedophile.
Peace
No offense to anyone,but this issue is highly sensitive, What happened to childhood? All the innocence and that stuff? I don't think it's fair stealing a child's precious moments in the name of Puberty and Maturity it should be stopped I may be wrong but it doesn't sound very healthy for a child to get married under the age of eighteen.
Men should look for women within their own age's range they should stop going after little children it's not good.
Just my own opinion it may not be objective or anything and I didn't say this to start a debate, I respect all the former posts.
Re: Refuting the Islamophobe's claim that Prophet Muhammad was a Pedophile.
No one here suggested that men should go after pubertal children. It really irritates me that after such a long discussion an erroneous conclusion is construed!
Please sister read the entire thread!
BTW when I lived in Saudi, our neighbor a poor woman who was an immigrant to Saudi because her husband was receiving medical treatment, well he died in surgery leaving her with five young kids the youngest a baby and the oldest is an 11 year old boy, she had only one girl who was 8 and she got her engaged to this 30+ year old saudi guy to everyone's protests including my mother and all of us shocked and dismayed, she wasn't even pubertal at that. However during her engagement however prolonged it was that Saudi guy provided financially for her entire family. People would always give them food and money but it was like they were beggars and he changed that.. in a different society perhaps due to the fact that she had no degrees she would have waited tables or maybe gyrated in some gentleman's club I really don't know. So not everyone has a hideous bad intention or pedophile inclination.. The solution would have been better if the woman was educated or had an extended family to take care of her or a whole host of other things but that unfortunately was their reality..
Last edited by جوري; 11-17-2011 at 04:46 PM.
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
Re: Refuting the Islamophobe's claim that Prophet Muhammad was a Pedophile.
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
i dont really want to debate this anymore. i hope you dont mind.
No, I don't mind.
I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.
Re: Refuting the Islamophobe's claim that Prophet Muhammad was a Pedophile.
format_quote Originally Posted by May Ayob
Peace
No offense to anyone,but this issue is highly sensitive, What happened to childhood? All the innocence and that stuff? I don't think it's fair stealing a child's precious moments in the name of Puberty and Maturity it should be stopped I may be wrong but it doesn't sound very healthy for a child to get married under the age of eighteen.
Men should look for women within their own age's range they should stop going after little children it's not good.
Just my own opinion it may not be objective or anything and I didn't say this to start a debate, I respect all the former posts.
Peace
Asalaamu Alaikum,
Just wanted to remind you that marraige isn't forced in Islam. If the girl didn't want to marry, then that would always be respected.
Furthermore, in the majority of the Muslim countries around the world, the legal age of marraige is around 15+, which is similar to Europe. In Saudi, they are looking to change the law to make the legal age 18, and this is said to be based of the Sharia.
Re: Refuting the Islamophobe's claim that Prophet Muhammad was a Pedophile.
format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
What about the guy in the reverse scenarios which are prevalent in the south asia
The guy has no choice but to obey the parents and disobeying parents will count as a major sin ,right?
Ibn Muflih al-Hanbali (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
The parents have no right to force their son to marry someone he does not want. Shaykh Taqiy al-Deen (i.e., Ibn Taymiyah – may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Neither of the parents has the right to force their son to marry someone whom he does not want, and if he refuses then he is not sinning by disobeying them, because no one has the right to force him to eat food he finds off-putting when there is food that he wants to eat, and marriage is like that and more so. Food that one is forced to eat is unpleasant for a short while, but a forced marriage lasts for a long time, and it harms a person and he cannot leave it. End quote.
Re: Refuting the Islamophobe's claim that Prophet Muhammad was a Pedophile.
format_quote Originally Posted by - Qatada -
Ibn Muflih al-Hanbali (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
The parents have no right to force their son to marry someone he does not want. Shaykh Taqiy al-Deen (i.e., Ibn Taymiyah – may Allaah have mercy on him) said: Neither of the parents has the right to force their son to marry someone whom he does not want, and if he refuses then he is not sinning by disobeying them, because no one has the right to force him to eat food he finds off-putting when there is food that he wants to eat, and marriage is like that and more so. Food that one is forced to eat is unpleasant for a short while, but a forced marriage lasts for a long time, and it harms a person and he cannot leave it. End quote.
The passage which you quoted is not a saying of the Prophet (PBUH) . In quran it is mentioned when in doubt about something , go back to Allah and his Rasool. Hence ,do you have any saying of the Prophet(PBUH)?
When truth is hurled at falsehood , falsehood perishes. because falsehood by its nature is bound to perish [21:18- Holy quran]
Re: Refuting the Islamophobe's claim that Prophet Muhammad was a Pedophile.
format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
The passage which you quoted is not a saying of the Prophet (PBUH) . In quran it is mentioned when in doubt about something , go back to Allah and his Rasool. Hence ,do you have any saying of the Prophet(PBUH)?
Asalaamu Alaikum,
All these hadiths indicate that the man has the right to choose who he marries.
Yahya related to me from Malik from Muhammad ibn Yahya ibn Habban from al-Araj from Abu Hurayra that the Messenger of Allah said, "Do not ask for a woman in marriage when another Muslim has already done so."
A man passed by Allah's Apostle and Allah's Apostle asked (his companions) "What do you say about this (man)?" They replied, "If he asks for a lady's hand, he ought to be given her in marriage; and if he intercedes (for someone) his intercessor should be accepted; and if he speaks, he should be listened to." Allah's Apostle kept silent, and then a man from among the poor Muslims passed by, an Allah's Apostle asked (them) "What do you say about this man?" They replied, "If he asks for a lady's hand in marriage he does not deserve to be married, and he intercedes (for someone), his intercession should not be accepted; And if he speaks, he should not be listened to." Allah's Apostle (saaws) said, "This poor man is better than so many of the first as filling the earth."
[Quran 004:003] If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.
Re: Refuting the Islamophobe's claim that Prophet Muhammad was a Pedophile.
format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
What about the guy in the reverse scenarios which are prevalent in the south asia
The guy has no choice but to obey the parents and disobeying parents will count as a major sin ,right?
format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce
The passage which you quoted is not a saying of the Prophet (PBUH) . In quran it is mentioned when in doubt about something , go back to Allah and his Rasool. Hence ,do you have any saying of the Prophet(PBUH)?
If you try to look for a hadeeth that explicitly says, "A grown man cannot be forced into marriage" my gut feeling is that you won't find one. However, if there isn't one that says this, it doesn't mean that there aren't any with that meaning.
Remember Islamic injunctions cover situations that the majority of predominant human behaviour exhibits, and also the exceptions. Like hijaab for women. One could argue why isn't hijaab mandated for men, because women could be attracted to a man's physical beauty. Yet we do know that that injunction is in accordance with the predominant nature of the sexes, and that there are other injunctions where women as well as men are told to lower their gazes, free mixing is forbidden etc.
Similarly, there are ahadeeth whose meanings infer that nobody, man or woman, should be forced into marriage, but the hadeeth explicitly mention the most common situations encountered.
A woman needs a wali for a marriage and some walis may force the girls under their care into marriages they didn't want/weren't pleased with. Women are also shyer in nature, and may not feel able to speak out. Due to this natural vulnerability in their position and nature, the ahadith explicitly mention women, as they are far more likely to be forced into a marriage than a man, but do not exclude men in the meaning.
"O you who believe! Eat not up your property among yourselves unjustly except it be a trade amongst you, by mutual consent..." (4:29, Part)
If Allah has obligated mutual consent for any kind of business transaction, it should go without saying that such mutual consent is a must for marriage.
The messenger of Allah said, "The non-virgin is not to be married until she requests it. And the virgin is not to be married without her consent." They said, "How is her consent [to be known]." He said, "If she remains silent." (Bukhari 6455 and Muslim)."
Does this mean that everybody apart from virgin girls can be married without their consent and can be forced into a marriage they don't want? No. By mentioning the most vulnerable, it makes sure there is explicit mention of them, but the inference is that nobody can be forced. Even down to the fact that if one is forced into an unwanted marriage and disliked, one can annull the marriage.
‘Aa’ishah reported that a girl came to her and said, “My father married me to his brother’s son in order to raise his social standing, and I did not want this marriage [I was forced into it].” ‘Aa’ishah said, “Sit here until the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) comes. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came and she told him about the girl. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) sent for her father, then he gave the girl the choice of what to do (i.e. annull the marriage or remain in the marriage). She said, “O Messenger of Allaah, I have accepted what my father did, but I wanted to prove something to other women.” (Reported by al-Nisaa’i, 3217).
So, if your parents are forcing you into a marriage that you don't want, expressing your dislike of that is not a sin. It's your life, and you have a right to be happy with the choice of person you spend it with. You can politely say to your parents, that so and so is not suitable for you because of xyz reason, and you would prefer somebody with abc qualities. If they still say, you will marry that girl, you have every right to keep expressing your opinion politely. That is not disobedience.
Jazaakallah khayr Br Qatada for the first link.
And Allah knows best in all matters.
Last edited by Insaanah; 11-19-2011 at 02:25 PM.
Reason: spotted an error in the wording
Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").
This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)
Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)
Re: Refuting the Islamophobe's claim that Prophet Muhammad was a Pedophile.
format_quote Originally Posted by Insaanah
So, if your parents are forcing you into a marriage that you don't want, expressing your dislike of that is not a sin. It's your life, and you have a right to be happy with the choice of person you spend it with. You can politely say to your parents, that so and so is not suitable for you because of xyz reason, and you would prefer somebody with abc qualities. If they still say, you will marry that girl, you have every right to keep expressing your opinion politely. That is not disobedience.
And if they threaten the disobedience with dire consequence such as telling him to leave the house or disownment , he has to marry to keep them happy right or can he get disowned and leave the house and marry a wife of his choice and take police protection from parents like shown in the below case
Re: Refuting the Islamophobe's claim that Prophet Muhammad was a Pedophile.
^ probably that link isn't as relevant for Muslims as the girl married without her parent's consent.
If the situation is that extreme, then you need professional help and advice on the best way to approach it. If you live in the UK, then your first port of call should be phoning the Islamic Shariah Council on 0208 925 0673 http://www.islamic-sharia.org, explain the situation to them, and see what they advise. The issues they deal with the most are those relating to marriage.
Stunningly beautiful adhaan from the Dome of the Rock in Masjid ul Aqsa Download (right click and choose "save target/link as").
This is a clear message for mankind in order that they may be warned thereby, and that they may know that He is only One God, and that those of understanding may take heed (14:52)
Indeed Allah knows, and you know not (16: 74, part)
Re: Refuting the Islamophobe's claim that Prophet Muhammad was a Pedophile.
In short:
To defend Islamophobe's claim that the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was a pedophile for marrying Aicha when she was only around 9 years old..
To the Atheists:
- Today, the marriage of consent in Bosnia is ~9 years old.
- Today, the marriage of consent in Texas is ~13 years old.
- In the beginning of the 1900's in America, the age of consent was ~9 years old.
To the Christians:
- In the Bible, Mariam gave birth to Jesus at the age of around 12 years old.
- In the Bible, it is stated in some parts that the marriage of consent ~5 years old.
- In Judaism, it is stated that the marriage is consent ~5-6 years old.
Re: Refuting the Islamophobe's claim that Prophet Muhammad was a Pedophile.
format_quote Originally Posted by SyrianFellow
In short:
To defend Islamophobe's claim that the Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was a pedophile for marrying Aicha when she was only around 9 years old..
To the Atheists:
- Today, the marriage of consent in Bosnia is ~9 years old.
- Today, the marriage of consent in Texas is ~13 years old.
- In the beginning of the 1900's in America, the age of consent was ~9 years old.
To the Christians:
- In the Bible, Mariam gave birth to Jesus at the age of around 12 years old.
- In the Bible, it is stated in some parts that the marriage of consent ~5 years old.
- In Judaism, it is stated that the marriage is consent ~5-6 years old.
(This is all according to my local Shiekh)
let me just correct a couple of numbers there: a girl can be betrothed the moment she is born, and married at the age of three (Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 37:1). A boy can betroth and marry at the age of thirteen (Shulchan Aruch, Even HaEzer 43:1).
that's per Judaism
and per state law the it wasn't 9 but 7
Delaware, the age of consent was only seven. Women reformers and advocates of social purity initiated a campaign in 1885 to petition legislators to raise the legal age of consent to at least sixteen, although their ultimate goal was to raise the age to eighteen. The campaign was eventually quite successful; by 1920, almost all states had raised the age of consent to sixteen or eighteen.
and this wasn't millenniums ago where life expectancy and quality of life, survival or children or women during child birth was what it is today or a hundred years ago.
Going back to the time of Aisha(ra), it was normal to marry at the age of puberty. What's more, she had already been engaged to someone else before she married the Prophet (pbuh), suggesting she had been mature enough by the standards of her society to consider marriage, and that such a marriage was not outlandish or unprecedented.
Re: Refuting the Islamophobe's claim that Prophet Muhammad was a Pedophile.
if i recall right. You can only "do the deed" when that female is in puberty. So by that definition it would be HEBEPHILIA NOT PEDOPHILIA!
Also that was common back then and is of no big issue. When women reach puberty their bodies release hormones that attract the wandering eyes of men. People will say "Ill never have sex with a girl that young" but that is not true. Because our attraction is mostly hormonal. Our nose picks it up even though we dont recognize the smell.
Look at Japan. Their age of consent is 13 and they are raging pedophiles and hebephiles and their government laws protect it! YET they get the least child abuse cases and child pregnancies are unheard of!
You cant stop human genetics as it often controls our lives. Us humans are instinctive creatures and man was programmed to acknowledge god the same way it was programmed to procreate. Anyone who says Muhammad is a pedophile obviously doesnt know human nature nor their own because a 9 year old has more sense in their head then most 40 year olds . Nobody mentions how Galileo was a gay pedophile along with every Greek emperor.
Christians wont admit that the Bible mentions Mary being a teenager approximately. A lot of marriages in the Bible are often under speculation because we depict them as being adults. It was the norm back then and I have no issues with it. Pedophilia is just a made up word we created.
Re: Refuting the Islamophobe's claim that Prophet Muhammad was a Pedophile.
Many of the prophet's marriages were for political reasons, establishing kinship with different tribes .. There were also women who Offered themselves for marriage for similar reasons. So I'd be careful telling or accepting a lie about him with topics on pheromones or hormones.. Societies are different and times are different and even people and events differ amongst all individuals .. It isn't a one size fits all and we shouldn't accept the so called psychological analyses and frank hearsay of others.
Re: Refuting the Islamophobe's claim that Prophet Muhammad was a Pedophile.
asalaamu alaykum warahmatullahi wabarakaatuh
Aisha (raDiy Allahu 'anha) said;
إذا بلغت الجارية تسع سنين ف هي امرأة
“When a girl [jaariyah] reaches 9 years old, she is a woman [imra'ah] ” (Sunan al “Tirmidhi”, Kitab al Nikah [Book on Marriage] 1027).
Aishah said: “The Messenger of Allah married me when I was six years old and was with me (i.e. began to live together) when I was 9 years old.”
Malik (Ibn Anas), Imam Abu Hanifa and Ash-Shafi’ie have said: A Limit (should be placed between marriage partners until maturity)that is able for Sexual intercourse.
“Al-Dawudi said: “And Aishah’s body had been matured. [i.e. reached ‘good Youthfulness’ (Shabaaban husna)] – may Allah be pleased with her“
(“Sharh al-Nawawi” 9/207 [Explanation of Sahih Muslim]).
LiveScience.com says:
There is a range, and this has been part of the problem of establishing the “normal” age of puberty. Girls might enter full-blown puberty anytime between ages 9 and 15. (LiveScience.com, The Truth Behind Early Puberty | LiveScience)
Young women will differ in Balaaghah (physical maturity) depending on a range of factors, especially depending on Where they Live and their Biological makeup;
What we see is that the age of the man is largely irrelevant to the question, so long as he is still reasonably within the age of marriage. Prophet Muhammad had only around 12 white hairs when he passed away at the age of 63, and his description [see Shama'il Al Tirmidhi] proves he was not physically frail like some people may think.
Any marriage by a people is based on the cultural norms of the time. The marriage should be based on social norms. The Prophet Muhammad married according to the social norms of his society (marriage of younger women to older men was the norms), and we marry according to the social norms that we live in. Social norms are not a problem, so long as they do not contradict firmly set ethics, and it has been proven above that this marriage did not cause any harm to Aisha whatsoever, but caused a great deal of good. Every other marriage should be judged individually based on its own circumstances.
Conclusion
The word ‘Paedophilia’ is a subjective term. Some countries legalise marriage at the age of 16, others legalise it earlier and and others later. So in one country you’re a paedophile and in another you’re not?
There needs to be One firm ethical rule; If there will be harm in a marriage and intimate relations, such a person should not have intimate relations. If there will be no harm – then it is perfectly suitable for such a young adult to get married of their choice.
If you question how one can figurethis out?, it is clear from seeing signs of their physical growth, aswell as seeing how this young adult is mentally and emotionally. If they are suited for it – then it is their right to go ahead with such a marriage relationship.
Last edited by - Qatada -; 06-21-2012 at 03:00 PM.
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i dont really want to debate this anymore. i hope you dont mind. 
. Nobody mentions how Galileo was a gay pedophile along with every Greek emperor. 
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