Okay I duno how to put this buh am jus gonna be straightforward.. As boys/men, would you go for someone that wears a ninja head to toe or someone who don't cover herself.. Now I know, I mean it's obvious that gurlz who don't cover themselves are more attractive buh on a serious note, who would you as a guy go for and why? Btw, this has NOTHING to do with Islam.. Am jus sayin generally.. I know some guys get put off if they see a gurl in a ninja cuz they feel she's too "Islamic" or too "extreme" or wahever.. Yet deep down that gurl could be an outgoing person.. Similarly, a gurl who don't cover herself properly, a guy could turn her down & yet deep down she could have the most amazing of characters.. So yeaaa, I was wonderin wah are your views on this? :><:
" Its sometimes better people don't get to know you..
Cuz the more they know you, the less they understand & accept you..
Alone is better, what say " - SRK
Bedouin is right, he is talking about a person who says
"a beard is not wajib/irrelevent/not important. and I'm not sinful if I shave it off"
because he is doing something haraam and denying it, he's legislating for himself what to follow, he's made himself the authority and not the statements of the rasool (saw). This is a big sin to legislate for yourself what is apart of the deen and what isn't.
For example, all though they're not on the same level but I'm using it to put a point across.
If a person drank alcohol and denied it was haraam would you class him as a good person? obviously not
what about a person who drinks alcohol and says this is haraam what i'm doing it's a sin I'm trying to stop it but I find it hard then this person is better then the first because he acknowledged he's doing haraam and needs to change because he's disobeying Allah. But the first person makes his own law and says I'm doing nothing wrong and denies he is disobeying Allah.
This is what the brother meant when he mentioned a person who denies the beard is waajib and there's nothing wrong with shaving it. He's doing a sin but doesn't recognise it as a sin he thinks there's nothing wrong with it so he carries on doing it even though people tell him it's haraam.
Last edited by Salahudeen; 08-19-2010 at 01:57 AM.
“Who said that guidance requires there to be someone accompanying you"
^Can't be shaitaan.. they be locked up remember? it's our nafs
thread should be locked before it goes more off topic! -.-
" Its sometimes better people don't get to know you..
Cuz the more they know you, the less they understand & accept you..
Alone is better, what say " - SRK
^mine too.......... brother bedouin was just miss understood. But what he's saying is correct. That a person who denies something wajib is not a good person because he's legislating for himself and not following the law of allah and the commandments of the prophet (saw) with regard to the thing he is denying as wajib.
This is different from a person shaving and acknowledging he is deficient in this area and needs to work on it because he is not putting his own opinion over Allah and his rasool (saw). He holds his hands up says "what i'm doing is haraam I need to stop doing it" but the other person denies what he's doing as haraam and this is big NO NO
Last edited by Salahudeen; 08-19-2010 at 02:04 AM.
“Who said that guidance requires there to be someone accompanying you"
Sister Crazy_Lady what have you started. Lol. Your making everyone crazy.
Love to contribute but its time for Suhoor. Probably after Fazr if the MODS ain't locked the thread.
By the way I'm in agreement with brother Bedouin.
Brothers & sister don't forget the 6 fasts of Shawwal
Abu Ayyub al-Ansari(ra) narrated, the Prophet(SAW) said, "Whoever fasted Ramadan with the then connect with the (fasting) six days in Shawwal, the (reward) as he was fasting for a year." (Muslim,Abu Dawood,al-Tirmidhi, al-Nisaai & Ibn Maajah).
Prince charming is all fairy tale. Don't buy the romantic 'he's such a kind sweetheart' stuff. Go for a guy that is likely to better you in deen and protect you, even if it means he is being 'harsh' to you.
Taking into account the divorce rate in our community, I say, sisters, please do not marry a man who is going to be harsh to you, even if he has all the deen, prays five times a day in the masjid, has a long beard, and wears his pants above his ankles etc. If he is unable to be a gentle person towards his wife, then i) that's a lack of akhlaaq, & ii) the life for the next few decades is going to be really tough for our sisters. The last thing we need is divorce rates going any higher and more broken Muslim families because of incompatible pairings.
“Do not argue with your Lord on behalf of your soul, rather argue with your soul on behalf of your Lord.” - Dhul-Nun
"It is the very pursuit of happiness that thwarts happiness." - Victor Frankl
I think the argument about the beard is way off..and I tend to agree more with Br AntiKarateKid - a beard doesn't make a marriage (which is what we were discussing in the first place) and therefore doesn't really need to discussed at length in my humble opinion. I think it is subjective at the end of the day, Allah will judge the individual - did he willingly defy the sunnah or did he just have trouble with this one aspect of the sunnah. Essentially, it's not a big deal to me.
Lastly, we need to move past these arguments/discussions that are irrelevant and unnecessary and at the end of the provide no benefit - our communities have way more serious problems that need to dealt with than the growing of beards. Divorce rates, drugs, alcohol, fornication, adultery, depression, disconnected youth, apostasy etc - those are what we should be focusing on because those are very serious societal problems that are plaguing OUR community and the practicing people in the society have a duty to address those issues - not get caught up in discussions that are essentially at this point in time, non-issues. Let's focus on what matters.
It is better this debate didn't go on. It's pointless. Sorry if anyone was offended by my words.
Wassalaam
Naw I'm not offended. Oh and whoops I meant A and C. B sucks. But whatever I think I made my point. I'll give in and say I misunderstood what you said in that post. Though I still stand by my other views about the beard.
Taking into account the divorce rate in our community, I say, sisters, please do not marry a man who is going to be harsh to you, even if he has all the deen, prays five times a day in the masjid, has a long beard, and wears his pants above his ankles etc. If he is unable to be a gentle person towards his wife, then i) that's a lack of akhlaaq, & ii) the life for the next few decades is going to be really tough for our sisters. The last thing we need is divorce rates going any higher and more broken Muslim families because of incompatible pairings.
Akhlaq of a person is very important; as stated in a hadith of Rasoolullah
إنما بعثت لأتمم مكارم الأخلاق
Rough translation: "I have been sent to perfect morals".
a woman will be rewarded for wearing a niqaab, but a woman who does not will not be punished. Not wearing Niqaab is not a sin. It's sunnah that we would observe if we wish. No one can force a woman to wear a niqaab. Whole body covered, with only face and hands exposed is 100% acceptable by the sunnah and Qura'n.
--
*Ummu Sufyaan chooses not to quarrel*
format_quote Originally Posted by Crazy_Lady
:sl:
^So... You think a God conscious and Islamically focused muslimah deserves someone better? :><:
What would you call a person who dun wanna keep a beard cuz he wants ter just "fit in wiv the crowd & look kewl" but doesn't have anyfin against it? :?
i'd say may Allah guide that guy.
the thing is, its not about leaving/practicing a sunnah based on what people say and do. imo, iman does equal character and not having that beard because people say its cool not to, then there is something not there.
not wearing your hijab or niqaab (yes, despite the fact that there is differences of opinion as to whether the niqaab is obligatory) because you think it isnt cool or that everyone else isn't, there is something not right.
scholarly differences is not the issue here. the fact of the matter is, is that that person is not holding on to the sunnah as they should be, because everyone else disagree's with it.. in this respect, iman equals character.
now the argument is raised, "wait a min, you have hijaabis who are all over guys" or "bearded bro's beat up their wives and mistreat their wives so how can iman equal character?"
you can tell between the pious person and the not so pious person, despite what they have on their heads or over their faces or how hairy their faces are. (btw, this explanation is merely for selecting a spouse, so im not advertising for people to go around and judge others).
how? birds of a feather flock together. when you see everyone doing to same thing, and there is that one person who is different, you know something is different (right or wrong) about them.
you see a sister with a hijab, but she doesn't talk to guys whereas the rest of the hijaabis do, she is different. you see a brother with a beard who doesn't beat up his wife, whereas all the other bearded brothers do, there is something different and so on.
why are the different and who do they act differently from everyone else? because they understand the deen how its meant to be understood and they dont care who or what says whatever they say (may Allah make us among)
if you are following the same doctrine (whatever it maybe), chances are you going to be acting the same.
you can almost compare it to family. siblings look/act alike, because they inherit the same genes from their parents.
these people who go against the norm, they have a different insight, they have different knowledge...they know something different then what the rest of us know...they follow a different "set of rules" from the rest of us who are all doing and acting the same. yes even if they appear to be good on the outside you can still tell what their true character is. you can tell straight away the difference between a aalim and a laymen. just get them to debate.
with regards to marriage, its just a matter of reading between the lines.
so yes, just to emphasize: this is just for the purposes of selecting a spouse, so im not advertising for people to go around and judge others and i don't know whats in the hearts of people.
Last edited by Ummu Sufyaan; 08-19-2010 at 05:31 AM.
...desperate for husnul-khitaam...
please make dua that Allah grants me a good end (to my life). please make dua that Allah guides me.
Think about it this way: Allah has made man khalif of the household. It is his duty to guide toward practising Islam fully and protecting the wife and kids from falling into deeni (and wordly) harm. The akhira is infintely more important than the dunya. If a muslimah is concerned for her hereafter, she should marry someone that has the same kind of concern. Somebody that doesn't desire to follow sunnah clearly does not meet this requirement. In all likelihood, he is going to be lax and under his khilafat things are not going to be completely Islamically run. He won't have the desire to stamp out fitnah.
Prince charming is all fairy tale. Don't buy the romantic 'he's such a kind sweetheart' stuff. Go for a guy that is likely to better you in deen and protect you, even if it means he is being 'harsh' to you.
For example, a guy that protects his wife (by forbidding her) from going out to meet her friends that regular partake in backbiting and gossiping over afternoon tea is 100% better than a guy who couldn't care less and gives his wife supposed 'freedom' (let's face it, a lot of sisters would think this guy is the answer to their dreams).
Firmness is a necessity in deen and it shouldn't be seen as backward/controlling behaviour.
He could be the best and kindest person and give you the world but if he can't help you get closer to Allah and his religion (even if it means by him being controlling and forcing out some bad habits you have), then what use is he?
and you can’t half tell, that some men use the exact same excuse against their wives with ill intent.
“he has right over you in obedience, he can tell you were to go and who to see, and guess what, he can forbid you from seeing your family because he has authority over you, so you better listen to him...” “what the hell is wrong with you fussy lady? i work my guts off for you, how dare you, where do you get off expecting that im going to a sweetheart"
You have to be kidding yourself that brothers who prevent wives from seeing their family and friends (yes even if their family and friends aren’t the best of influence), do so because they sincerely care about their wives. i mean if they do, then a round of applause and credit to them, but its unrealistic to believe that men always use their authority because he truly cares for her. As if some brothers don’t use that authority excuse for the wrong reasons.
format_quote Originally Posted by Bedouin
It is his Allah imposed duty to do so.
The typical romeo/prince charming stereotype. The guy that is sooo 'kind/caring' because he bends to his wife's every desire out of supposed love and lets her walk over him.
The women of medina used to have to have to upper hand in their household and when the qurash saw this, they thought that maybe they were being too hard on their wives...so they adopted the way of the ansar men.
It is narrated that the women of the Sahaabah used to argue and debate with them, and indeed this is the way in which the Mothers of the Believers [i.e., the Prophet’s wives] used to act with our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), as ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab said to the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “We Quraysh used to control our women, but when we came to the Ansaar we found that they were a people who were controlled by their women. So our women started to adopt the ways of the Ansaari women. I got angry with my wife and she argued with me and I did not like her arguing with me. She said, ‘Why do you object to me arguing with you? By Allaah, the wives of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) argue with him…’” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4895; Muslim, 1479.
Al-Haafiz ibn Hajar said – discussing the lessons to be learned from this hadeeth – “This indicates that being harsh with women is something blameworthy, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) adopted the way of the Ansaar with their women and forsook the way of his people.”
So im sorry, i don’t fully buy that women who aren’t “yes sir no sir” challenge a husbands/mans ego or that it is a sign of subservience to her.
no, i don’t agree that a wife should be overally bossy to the extent where she is disrespectful of him, etc. But at the same time, a husband should be understanding and sensitive towards his wife and her emotion needs (such as seeing her family) without the ill thoughts that she is trying to walk all over him.
Being possessive and dominate is not good. Being understanding and sensitive is. You can give up a bit of your ego to please your wife...it doesn’t mean it makes you less of a man. You can get the both of best worlds, imo.
...desperate for husnul-khitaam...
please make dua that Allah grants me a good end (to my life). please make dua that Allah guides me.
^So... You think a God conscious and Islamically focused muslimah deserves someone better? :><:
What would you call a person who dun wanna keep a beard cuz he wants ter just "fit in wiv the crowd & look kewl" but doesn't have anyfin against it?
On the day of qiyamah too you would have to fit in with the crowds, people with sunnah beards will insha allah be raised with Muhammad Sallalahu Allaihi Wassalam and those with no beards, well they can choose to go wherever they want except in the company of Muhammad Sallalahu Allaihi Wassallam.
Note: Not ARGUING, despite as it appears by the tone.
format_quote Originally Posted by Muraad
Taking into account the divorce rate in our community, I say, sisters, please do not marry a man who is going to be harsh to you
Wa alaykum salam,
OK then, knight in shining armour for all sisters, tell me what I meant by 'harsh'?
Let me define 'harsh'. It's obvious you've misunderstood. There was a reason I put it in quotes.
Somebody that has the ability to MAINTAIN WISDOM AND MERCY but NOT BACKING DOWN TO HER WILL when she is in the wrong and be FIRM against any fitnah that may arise.
Men have control for a reason. Lovey dovey crap does not always work (NOT THAT IT DOESN'T HAVE ITS PLACE, in case you misconstrue). Man has a responsibility to be the shepherd and guide the wife and the household.
Saying that above, DOES NOT MEAN that I support: wife beating, arguments, looking down and judging her, being obsessive/dominating/always finding fault in her etc. It DOES NOT MEAN that you don't show love to her NOR does it mean you don't be gentle to her. ALL THIS HAS ITS PLACE IN MARRIAGE and without it, there is not such thing as marriage.
Indeed, Prophet Sallalahu Alaihe Wasalam has said the best of you is he who is kindest to his wife. I would fully follow and encourage this command.
No. What I mean is, if the man is not going to ever take a stand and take on the duty Allah has imposed upon him head-on but choose to relinquish his power to the lady and 'let her wear the pants' or run some wishy washy 'joint command' household that is common nowadays then that is frankly new aged nonsense and it is PRECISELY THE REASON WHY THE DIVORCE RATE IS SO HIGH. Women don't know their role and men don't know theirs. Women trying to BE men and take on THEIR responsibility and MEN LETTING THEM is a PROBLEM left unchecked which causes all these marital breakups. You can't have two Alpha males in one household, each competing for power. Conflict in such a case is INEVITABLE.
Men need to take responsibility and know their role as protecter/guider.
Women need to accept that the man has this God given duty and not feel as though she has been hard done by whenever the man is being 'firm' (OBVIOUSLY NOT TALKING ABOUT VIOLENCE (physcical/emotional/otherwise ETC) with her.
even if he has all the deen, prays five times a day in the masjid, has a long beard, and wears his pants above his ankles etc.
If he is unable to be a gentle person towards his wife, then i) that's a lack of akhlaaq, & ii)
Are you telling me, that if your wife were to go against the command of Allah, you would not even feel anger toward her in your heart? Perhaps you love her too much to feel anger at her specifically, you'd feel anger at the act that she did instead, right?
I personally would feel anger toward her. This anger is cos I would love her and WANT her to be a good muslim. I want good for her and if I see her doing something wrong, I'd be angry at her specifically for not being good on the deen.
Let's walk through a scenario.
Hypothetical pushover man that doesn't take his duty of guiding and protecting the family from fitnah seriously:
*Wife does persistent sin*
[First chance of rectifying her] Husband to wife one night in bed: 'Oh honeyyy, can I have a word please? Pleaseee, I need to have a word about some of your behaviour which I think goes against Islam. I don't want to hurt your feelings thoughhh but you did xyz the other day and that was wrong, you do it all the time actually. Pwomise me you won't do it again, pweaseee. We need to fear Allah '
Wife: Awww shooo nice of you to have concern. OK sunshine.
Husband: yayyy!!!
*Wife, however, persists in the same sin*
[Second chance of rectifying her] Husband frowns to himself. Talks to his wife again after having been fed up for a bit:
Husband: Honey Please you pwomised you wouldn't do it again.
Wife: aww sooo sorry, you have my word pumpkin pie
*wife goes on to do her sin again and again*
This goes on for a bit longer, 3,4,5 times where he has the chance to rectify her. He comes to her like a mouse each time and she works her magic and the 'argument' dissipates with her not taking this pushover guy seriously.
Surprise suprise, divorce happens cos the guy's fed up.
I give you the first 1, 2, 3 times of gentle tip-toing around. That is FINE. But only a FOOL would continue in this manner if she is obviously not going to respect you and recognise your role as guider.
Anyway, here is what I'd do
1, 2 and heck even 3, let's say I behaved as above.
[Fourth chance of rectification] Husband to wife: Look, you've been messing around too much now. I've given you plenty of chances of change. Enough is enough. Stop taking the pee. Fear Allah and realise what you are doing is a sin.
I'd remind her constantly until she is fully agreed and I would raise my voice if I have to.
I.e. The 'harsh'/'firm' approach. Have I beaten her? Nope. Have I said something WRONG? NOPE. Am I right to 'chastise' her this way? YES. Is it my DUTY to chastise her? YES.
Yeah I know, there are different scenarious that could come up and you probably would find someone that would be religious to start with and wouldn't contemplate sin etc but please entertain the above as a hypothetical situation (it doesn't have to be true to real life to illustrate what I'm saying).
Now any Allah fearing woman WOULD take on board what is said. But what you have nowadays, is the typical stupid 'oohh how DARE he talk to me in that voice!!, just who does he think he is?! He's not my father. '.
THIS is the problem. Women usually can't fathom a guy telling him what to do. THEIR EGO gets the better of them, despite the guy being right in what he says, they don't want to hear any of it. She'll run off to her parents house crying he's so mean to me and blah blah blah, I want divorce!!! She can't handle it.
No no, she wants an EQUAL partnership and can't tolerate being told she is wrong by someone she perceives as her JOINT leader in the household. That's how many sisters are raised. Don't give me that different fiqh for different locations thing here, that is definitely not applicable - men are men and women are women, despite the location. In fact, this is precisely the reason why divorce rates are so high.
Married life is half iman, so I've heard. It takes a lot of sacrifice on BOTH parts. BOTH have to display patience, forgiveness, overlook faults when necessary (NON-DEENI, of course), be kind, caring, loving for a succesful (wordly and otherworldly success, mind you) marriage.
If EITHER goes into the arrangement with an ego (i.e. man is dominating 'Allah has given me the right and you have to do EVERYTHING I say blah blah' and woman is a self-absorbed pampered daddy's girl 'you have noo right to tell me off for anything mister! Only my father does and he never told me off EVER!!' ), then there is obviously going to be a problem from day one. Neither knows their right and neither is Islamically focused.
Sometimes it takes a special and wise kind of guy to be the MAN and say what NEEDS to be said. Not what she WANTS TO HEAR and not in the manner the wife WANTS it to be said. I.e. the manner that she'll ignore cos it's only coming from his dear soppie other half who couldn't ever 'hurt' (KEEP IN MIND, HER IDEA OF HURT IS SOMETHING SILLY LIKE BEING TOLD OFF FOR SOMETHING ENTIRELY REASONABLE) her so she can go against what he says without consequence.
the life for the next few decades is going to be really tough for our sisters. The last thing we need is divorce rates going any higher and more broken Muslim families because of incompatible pairings.
Fair enough. This is I agree with. If you're a muslimah that wants a lovey dovey husband that will give you all the love and attention you want and treat you as his EQUAL and let you RUN THE HOUSEHOLD and a guy that doesn't take his responsibility of guiding away from sin seriously, don't marry a 'harsh' guy that will tell it like it is and not take any compromise when it comes to deen.
I completely agree, there with you, Muraad. The sister would be better off with the clean shaven, pants dropped below the ankle hip new youngster that knows what it's like to live in the west so his way is obviously the more correct one, 'what do these bearded fools know? I'm going to treat my wife like a pwincess yaaay. '
KEEP IN MIND, I'm not talking about wordly nonsense. I.e. Guy becomes harsh for something that is not deen related. I am against that, unless there is a real negative consequence of wife doing some act (not a sin, anything at all), there is no need to be harsh.
I would however, give more respect to my position of guider when it comes to deen and not tolerate being pushed over. Why? The deen is bigger than petty husband/wife squabbles.
Now also read my reply to umm sufyan, for more insight into what my position is lest you persist in misunderstanding, which she obviously has done:
and you can’t half tell, that some men use the exact same excuse against their wives with ill intent.
“he has right over you in obedience, he can tell you were to go and who to see, and guess what, he can forbid you from seeing your family because he has authority over you, so you better listen to him...” “what the hell is wrong with you fussy lady? i work my guts off for you, how dare you, where do you get off expecting that im going to a sweetheart"
You have to be kidding yourself that brothers who prevent wives from seeing their family and friends (yes even if their family and friends aren’t the best of influence), do so because they sincerely care about their wives. i mean if they do, then a round of applause and credit to them, but its unrealistic to believe that men always use their authority because he truly cares for her. As if some brothers don’t use that authority excuse for the wrong reasons.
Tell me how this is relevant to what I posted? People will abuse, that's a given. Do you honestly think I suggested she go find a person that will abuse Allah's law? What's your point? Keep your emotions on tap. No need to bring in MISPLACED examples when I didn't even suggest otherwise.
Did I say go for the guy that will be as you described? A 'petty/quarrelsome' loser of a guy?
OF COURSE there are people that abuse their position of power. Not everyone does, however.
Sisters ought to marry a guy who knows his responsibility and whose duty is to ALLAH first and foremost. Not to his parents, not to his family/friends, not to his children and not to his wife! At least that way we can be sure he will guide you to jannah and not let you guide him due to any deficiency in you.
A guy that is not going to tolerate any unbecoming conduct in deen and will not allow you to walk all over him.
Prince charming gentle soppy mouse too-afraid-to-tell-you-what-you-need-to-hear-and-in-THE-MANNER-IN-WHICH-YOU-NEED-IT-SAID-FOR-YOU-TO-TAKE-IT-SERIOUSLY will give you all you want in the DUNYA but won't be of any advantange to you in the hereafter. He's not going to take the appropriate measures to save you from sin (even if he wants to, he wouldn't be able to be firm enough to convince you).
The women of medina used to have to have to upper hand in their household and when the qurash saw this, they thought that maybe they were being too hard on their wives...so they adopted the way of the ansar men.
So im sorry, i don’t fully buy that women who aren’t “yes sir no sir” challenge a husbands/mans ego or that it is a sign of subservience to her.
no, i don’t agree that a wife should be overally bossy to the extent where she is disrespectful of him, etc. But at the same time, a husband should be understanding and sensitive towards his wife and her emotion needs (such as seeing her family) without the ill thoughts that she is trying to walk all over him.
More irrelevant stuff. Did I say she has to be a yes sir/no sir woman? Go on, read my posts again. Did I say he has to be insensitive to her needs? On the contrary woman are too emotional and men NEED empathy. Give her space, show her compassion etc, that's FINE.
YET IT IS ALSO PART OF WISDOM TO SHOW FIRMNESS, WHEN NEEDED. All other times he can be the gentlest soul in the world to her, though not to the extent that he bows to her every petty demand.
Being possessive and dominate is not good. Being understanding and sensitive is. You can give up a bit of your ego to please your wife...it doesn’t mean it makes you less of a man. You can get the both of best worlds, imo.
I AGREE. This is not even my position.
A man that humbles himself and treats his wife with a foot massage when she's tired, brings her chocolates and flowers to cheer her up, tells her kind soothing words, behaves sweetly with her, pampers her with his love for her is COMMENDABLE and I would ENCOURAGE such behaviour but the moment the wife 'steps out of line' and the lovey dovey method of guiding her back does not work/does not bear any fruit, then the man needs to bring out his authority to guide her with wisdom and if a firm voice is what's required then so be it and I'm not saying he should beat or traumatise her, lest you guys come out with some statistics about domestic/'emotional' violence <_<.
Anyways. I'll stop here. I've said a lot. I've used caps too which some might assume for anger. I'm not 'arguing' nor being a troll. I feel passionate about this matter hence the tone. No bad feelings.
Last edited by Alpha Dude; 08-19-2010 at 10:49 AM.
I think the argument about the beard is way off..and I tend to agree more with Br AntiKarateKid - a beard doesn't make a marriage (which is what we were discussing in the first place) and therefore doesn't really need to discussed at length in my humble opinion. I think it is subjective at the end of the day, Allah will judge the individual - did he willingly defy the sunnah or did he just have trouble with this one aspect of the sunnah. Essentially, it's not a big deal to me.
Lastly, we need to move past these arguments/discussions that are irrelevant and unnecessary and at the end of the provide no benefit - our communities have way more serious problems that need to dealt with than the growing of beards. Divorce rates, drugs, alcohol, fornication, adultery, depression, disconnected youth, apostasy etc - those are what we should be focusing on because those are very serious societal problems that are plaguing OUR community and the practicing people in the society have a duty to address those issues - not get caught up in discussions that are essentially at this point in time, non-issues. Let's focus on what matters.
Simple question: Is a guy that thinks beard is not from the deen or doesn't consider it praiseworthy and FOR THAT reason, does not adopt it, a good muslim? Categorically, it is proven to be wajib. Anyone that neglects it is sinful.
HOWEVER, all along, I have said that it is OKAY (so to say) if a person does not have one but NOT OKAY if he thinks there is no virtue attached with it.
If you personally honestly do not find any virtue in a beard, then I'm frankly disappointed. I expected better from you, brother.
FYI, when I made the initial post to the sister, it was relative in the sense that she has a choice between two:
1. best character, full salah etc but no beard (DUE SPECIFICALLY TO ATTACHING NO IMPORTANCE TO IT).
VS
2. best character, full salah etc but full beard.
So all these issues people have created in this thread is due to misunderstandings in the first place.
Seriously. How can any muslim entertain that guy number 1 is the better option than the latter for an Islamically focused sister?
The argument hasn't been about a beard making a marriage in the first place. That is not what I was saying or arguing. Despite the sister's question.
Marriage is not an end. It is a tool. The end goal is Allah. Marriage is ibaadah. Guy 2 obviously has more importance on beard/sunnah than guy 1, hence more likely to guide her and the family to a more fulfilling Islamic wedded life.
This is what the sister asked btw:
I know keepin a beard is sunnah buh if prince charmin were to come along & he was perfect in every way buh jus didn't have a beard, I wouldn't turn him down..
She said 'perfect' in every way. Hence the option between guys 1, 2 above. Which any person can see that guy two is better (also note that my reply was IN THE EVENT that the brother does not attach importance to beard and doesn't keep it for that reason, not simply being beardless per se (for any valid reason).
Whilst I agree there are more important issues, at the end of the day, it's not like we are spending our entire lives just hinging on this one sunnah issue. It's just a discussion on a forum that will end in a couple of days most likely.
What about if somebody came and started arguing that the sunnah acts in salah are not really important? When salah is the first thing Allah will question us about, would you really say well, it's only sunnah, there are more important issues vis. "Divorce rates, drugs, alcohol, fornication, adultery, depression, disconnected youth, apostasy etc"?
No muslim with his head screwed on right would argue that sunnah is not important. It is what defines us. The kind of problems you mention divorce, alchohol etc is a SYMPTOM of not leading an Islamic lifestyle and HUGE part of the Islamic lifestyle is following the sunnah. Not just the outward but the internal aspect to. I.e smiling at people, thinking well of others etc.
If everyone followed EVERY act of Sunnah, this world would be a much better place. Sunnah cannot be emphasised enough.
HOWEVER, in saying this, I do AGREE that there are people that focus TOO MUCH on the external and I UNDERSTAND why you feel repulsed by the attitude and RIGHTLY SO.
Last edited by Alpha Dude; 08-19-2010 at 10:58 AM.
And how do you know the divorce rate is so high because of 'joint command'or 'the wife wearing the trouser'? What is the actual dirvoce rate for the muslims? How do we know it is high?
I would save myself the hassle and never marry again.
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one.." [Bukhaari].
And how do you know the divorce rate is so high because of 'joint command'or 'the wife wearing the trouser'? What is the actual dirvoce rate for the muslims? How do we know it is high?
I would save myself the hassle and never marry again.
Wa alaykum salam,
Allah has given men the duty of carer, protector, leader.
I am hypothetising based on what I have read, seen and heard. There's hardly going to be a survey out there with full statistics that somehow show that women are wearing the trousers hence divorce.
The fact remains, due to what we see in the west, the joint command method is highly encouraged by just about everything. This approach goes against Islam. If you go against Allah's command then obviously you'll fall into wrong.
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I know some guys get put off if they see a gurl in a ninja cuz they feel she's too "Islamic" or too "extreme" or wahever.. Yet deep down that gurl could be an outgoing person.. Similarly, a gurl who don't cover herself properly, a guy could turn her down & yet deep down she could have the most amazing of characters.. So yeaaa, I was wonderin wah are your views on this? :><:
it's our nafs 
Pleaseee, I need to have a word about some of your behaviour which I think goes against Islam. 
I don't want to hurt your feelings thoughhh 
but you did xyz the other day and that was wrong, you do it all the time actually. Pwomise me you won't do it again, pweaseee. 
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