Well, it seems I may have to arrange a trip to the UK if and when I am ever ready for marriage.
That's really all I have to say. I'm not in the UK and I'm not Asian, so I'm not qualified to comment on either of those issues.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...?newsfeed=trueWednesday 18 January 2012
Why British Muslim women struggle to find a marriage partner | Syma Mohammed
Older, unmarried female Muslims outnumber their male counterparts for many reasons. Fussiness is not one of them
A few years ago, at the behest of my mother, I attended a Muslim marriage event in Glasgow. These are events where Muslim men and women meet for the purpose of seeking an ideal marriage partner.
At the event, there were around five women to every man. Well-turned-out women sat around dejected, twiddling their thumbs, waiting to speak to the select few.
Sadly, it's not an isolated example. Up and down the country, hundreds of women in their 30s and 40s within the Asian Muslim community are struggling to find a marriage partner.
Nearly all Muslim singles events are female-dominated, unless organisers artificially construct a level playing field by selling equal numbers of male and female tickets.
In the latter case, there's always a stampede for female tickets. December's Canary Wharf Professionals Muslim marriage event saw the female ticket quota sell out three weeks before, whereas the male ticket quota only sold out days before.
Moreover, the average age of women at such events is typically higher than men. Rooful Ali, founder of Emerald Muslim events, believes that the average age of women attending tends to be early 30s, while for men it is late 20s.
Such occurrences are symptomatic of the growing Muslim spinster crisis, which has been brewing for some time and is rooted in cultural, rather than religious, trends.
First, there has always been a tradition for British men originating from the Indian subcontinent to marry women from their country of origin. Families encourage their sons to do so for a host of reasons, including the cultural expectation that girls from "back home" will stay with and look after their in-laws.
The second trend is for Muslim men to marry "women of the book" (Christian or Jewish women), which is permissible in Islam. Men are more likely to work and socialise with British Christian women than their female Muslim counterparts, which leads to a higher chance of such marriages occurring.
Both trends lead to a shortfall of available Muslim men.
For Muslim women, marrying men from their country of origin is rarely considered an option as they tend to want social, economic and intellectual equals or superiors. Men from their country of origin tend to have different mindsets and struggle to find jobs no matter how well qualified they are, thereby leaving women as the main breadwinners. This situation can often create a strenuous dynamic in relationships with men from patriarchal cultures.
Muslim women, unlike men, are restricted as to whom they can marry. Marrying men outside the faith is only considered permissible in most communities if the men convert.
Moreover, in line with national trends, Muslim women academically outperform the men. According to the Equality and Human Rights Commission's How Fair is Britain? report, Bangladeshi and Pakistani women are more likely to be employed as professionals than their male counterparts. This means that professional Muslim women have an even smaller pool of intellectual and economic equals to choose from.
This is exacerbated by the fact that Asian men are likely to choose partners of lower economic and intellectual status as they traditionally grow up with working fathers and stay-at-home mothers, and generally choose to replicate this model.
Unfortunately, these imbalances are not widely acknowledged – many label older unmarried women as fussy. The effect on women is crippling. Many become depressed as a huge amount of importance is attached to marriage, and unmarried women are made to feel that they've failed.
Any real solution would require a complete cultural shift in mindset by parents, community leaders and imams. This will need geographically, socially and economically fractured communities to work together to achieve change – no easy feat. Until they do so, many women who want to marry men of the same faith will continue to struggle.
What do you think about the reasons stated in the article?
Well, it seems I may have to arrange a trip to the UK if and when I am ever ready for marriage.
That's really all I have to say. I'm not in the UK and I'm not Asian, so I'm not qualified to comment on either of those issues.
there were around five women to every man.
Just wonder, in position like this, why "those brothers" are still complain they cannot get married?
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
Just wonder, in position like this, why "those brothers" are still complain they cannot get married?
Fusiness? :X
The article actually gives reasons which I kind of agree with some of them such as:
1:Brothers are making unfair generalisations where they believe muslim girls born and bred in the West are not willing to look after their in-laws or they are high maintenance
2.Some brothers marry 'women of the Book' which leads to a shortfall of available Muslim men.
3.Some men dont like to marry ' professional' sisters due to the possibilty of them becoming the main breadwinners which might lead to feelings of emasculation and wider family gossips about the couple
Last edited by Ar-RaYYan; 01-20-2012 at 02:14 PM.
^In all fairness..considering the points you've highlighted..it's the women as well who have issues which is why they struggle to find marriage partners. I think it's from both sides..boils down to how much you're willing to compromise, and for who's sake -ultimately for the sake of Allah. Besides, I think people are waaay to fussy..I mean so what if someone doesn't have 1 out of the 100 requirements of a husband/wife..doesn't mean a marriage still can't work out...it's not the be all end all.
Of course. I agree. It is not just the guys fault that these women are struggling to get married. It lies with both parties and we cannot blame one gender for this problem. I think they are equally blameworthy and each have their issues and fusiness and yeah I totally agree about compromising. I was just answering Br. Ardianto's post and giving a couple of possible reasons why those brothers are complaining about not being able to get married.format_quote Originally Posted by Lowe
Reflections liked this post
I am sorry to hear what happened to sisters in UK.
But I just want to know, is it allowed for Pakistani women to get married with men from other races?
^I am not from the Indian subcontinent so I might not be qualified to answer this question but most of my friends are originally from there and having already asked them this question; they would say that Islamically there is nothing that prevents them from marrying a brother from another race but culturally its easier for guys to get married to non-Pakistani/non-Bengali than its for them to get married to a non-Pakistani/non-Bengali brother.
One things for sure, polygamy would solve the problem. :X
Feeling of emasculation and people gossips if the wife become breadwinner maybe is universal problem, not only among Pakistani and Bangladeshi people, but also in Indonesia.format_quote Originally Posted by Ar-RaYYan
I have heard some complains from female 'professional' in Indonesia who could not meet someone, "Why there is no a man who propose marriage to me? is it because they feel inferior to me?". And there is a misconception about female 'professional' that maybe a universal misconception. There are men who believe, if the wife has her own income, she will not respect the husband, if the wife has higher income, she will look down to the husband.
But this is not true. There are many female 'professional' who always respect to their husbands. Even my wife was a female 'professional' too who had high income, but she always respect to me. And actually, married a female 'professional' not a bad thing for a husband, as long as the husband does not consider business to make money as a competition between husband and wife.
But of course, for a man who wants power over his wife, wants his wife always depend on him, and he can order anything without his wife can fight, female 'professional' is not the right choice, because female 'professionals' are smart and independent women.
But if all of the wives are coming from the "back home", not from UK?.format_quote Originally Posted by 'Abd-al Latif
I have read an article in my newspaper about what Pakistani and Bangladeshi men in UK do. In example, a taxi driver in London married five wives (Yes, five!). All of his wives were coming from Pakistan, not from UK. He brought all of his wives to London and register them as single parents to gain financial support from government, so, he doesn't need to fulfill his wives needs.
Without intention to disrespect other ethnics, bad behavior of a number of Pakistani and Bangladeshi men in UK have been spread in Indonesian newspapers.
Those reasons given in the article can also be labelled as fussiness from someone elses point of view.
I think sometimes its more because parents dont approve of their sons/daughters choice, so girls can struggle to find someone thats both appealing to them as well as their parents. And Pakistani parents (the ones I have come across) are VERY fussy. A lot of them dont approve of their kids even wanting to marry someone from another eithnic background let alone actually going ahead with it. But this goes for boys and girls so not too sure where the article got its subjects from.
It is also true though that women prefer to marry someone from a similar background as them. Maybe because it is easier to relate to someone who has had a similar upbringing.
I may be totally off my nut here, so you can pick this theory apart. In fact, please do. If I'm totally wrong, tell me and let me know why. Anyway, this is my take on things:
If you wait to find the "perfect" partner, you will never be married. That's all I have to say about that.
As for the rest, this isn't just a Muslim problem, or even an Asian problem. It's a universal problem. Many men in many cultures have this notion of masculinity. They HAVE to be the top earner. They HAVE to be the provider. Some would say that this goes back to our evolutionary biology, when men were the hunter/gatherers and women took care of the young. But I think it's deeper than that. There is a subconscious undercurrent in our culture and our society that we men are supposed to be the leaders, the providers, etc.
The problem is that this same society that promotes this attitude does nothing to teach young boys how to lead like men. We have become selfish and lazy. Everyone cares about themselves and no one else, and society has failed to teach my generation of boys how to become men. The schools won't do it. The parents won't do it. Even religious communities won't do it. So it falls to us to learn for ourselves, because no one else is going to teach us the skills we need to become the right kind of men.
Couple that with another segment of society that promotes equality of women and men. We are not equal. We're different. That doesn't make men better than women or women better than men. It just means that we have different needs and different desires. Women are by and large better at relationships than men. This is fact. I know I am bad at relationships, even with other men. I'm not good at expressing my emotions (other than anger). I've always been a bit of a loner.
So what you have is a lot of men with their male egos who want to be "the man" of the family who don't know how to be a man, and a lot of women who want a "real man" but can't find one, because we don't know how to be "real men". So it leaves everyone frustrated and unhappy, and people jump into relationships because they don't want to be alone. Most of those relationships fail sooner or later, which restarts the cycle.
For me personally, I don't care if my wife/girlfriend makes more money than I do. In fact, let her earn the money and I'll stay home.I'm OK with that.
I just have to get over my annoying self-esteem issues, and I'm good...
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I think the article is spot on, men go abroad because they prefer a wife who does not mind living with in laws, so women here are left on the shelf unless they adapt to meet the requirements of asian men. Also a woman from abroad will not expect much from her husband financially, where as some women here, not all but some make a big deal about the guys job, and refuse to get married to him if he's salary is under a certain level.
Also because women academically out perform men they don't want to marry someone who hasn't done as well as them, I.E a woman who's a solicitor will want to marry someone who's out performed her and would laugh at the idea of marrying a man who is a simple security guard, and people will also laugh saying "she's a solicitor what's she doing marrying him".
So the security guard who didn't do well academically compared to the many women out there, goes abroad and marries a woman who doesn't mind his job lol. And the female solicitor is sitting on the shelve waiting for a barrister or Dr to come and propose lol. This is true story btw.
I think everyone needs to lower their standards. Among my relatives there was a man who's job is postman and he was interested in woman who had degree and was qualified optician, everybody laughed at him and told him "why you looking at her for, she's educated with degree, you're just a postman they'll never give her" so he decided to go abroad also lol.
I think if everyone lowered their standards more people would get married.
Assalamu-alaikum,
I think there are challenges in many parts of the world with regards to finding a suitable marriage matter.
Personally, I think that the reason we are facing these sorts of issues is because our muslim brothers and sisters have stepped very far away from how a marriage should take place...... from an islamic point of view.
Consider the times of our nabi (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) and the sahabi.
How did marriages occur then?
How should marriage occur in Islam?
Quite simply:
--> a friend/ family member makes a recommendation of a particular boy/ girl.
--> The families as well as the 2 individuals of concern meet.
--> While the families get a chance to converse, the man and woman are allowed to chat in private (but with a mahram not too far off) - they get the chance to assess each others compatibility in terms of physical attributes, personality, goals in life, etc.
--> If there is some affinity felt - each go back, and would read Istikhaarah salaah, and seek guidance from Allah with regards to this very important life choice.
--> If there is a positive sign received from both parties - the families meet once again, and a date is set soon afterwards for a nikkah.
Simple.
Ask yourself this: how many marriages do you know of, that has followed the above procedure?
Personally, I can count these on my one hand.
And this is why we have gone all wrong!
-> There is no need for the current 'I need to get to know him/ her for a little while longer' stories.
-> There is more emphasis placed on the man/ woman's piety, than their looks (while this is important - certainly, this should not top the list of finding the ideal marriage partner).
-> There is little concern regarding the ethnicity of the prospective spouse (considering the person would be recommended by one close to the family, and Istikharaah is sought - what more do you need to put your mind at ease?)......also, do consider, that our beloved nabi (sallahu alaihi wasalam) also married
women who were not of his ethnicity either......i.e its not the persons race that matters, its his/her piety and taqwa that should concern us.
If marriage is done with the right intentions, and with the couple having a similiar goal in this dunya (i.e the aakhirah) - then how easy does Islam make marriage?
It is WE..... that find reasons to complicate every matter of life.
It is WE..... that insist on finding a mate - and marrying him/ her out of infatuation/ 'love'.....how far down the line of Hollywood 'brainwashing' have we gone!
It is WE..... that insist on marrying later rather than sooner.....because we want the degree, the career, the house, the car, and a 'chance to enjoy the single life' before we think about settling down.
With regards to the situation in the UK, the question to ask is:
As a muslimah, do you really want to settle down with any one of these men:
Personally, I think they are doing our UK muslimahs all a favour by going out and marrying 'women of the Book' (in any case, do these people actually exist in the true sense anymore??) - no doubt, these marriages following a period of illicit courtships, etc.1:Brothers are making unfair generalisations where they believe muslim girls born and bred in the West are not willing to look after their in-laws or they are high maintenance
2.Some brothers marry 'women of the Book' which leads to a shortfall of available Muslim men.
3.Some men dont like to marry ' professional' sisters due to the possibilty of them becoming the main breadwinners which might lead to feelings of emasculation and wider family gossips about the couple
In my humble opinion, the struggle in finding the right marriage partner - is not that there are too few men, or any of the reasons mentioned above.
But simply, that it is becoming more difficult to find a muslim man/ woman - filled with the love of Allah (subhana'watala) and his rasul (sallalahu alaihi wasalam), and who is seeking marriage in the correct manner, and with the correct intentions.
HOWEVER: NB! do realise, that for us to be seeking such a person, means that WE become such a person as well.
And insha Allah, all our single brothers and sisters would be blessed with the opportunity of ful-filling half their deen, in blessed unions.
Salaam
Last edited by ~Zaria~; 01-20-2012 at 05:24 PM.
You are correct in some ways but I think sometimes women want men who have high aspirations just like them, so they could work on it together. But then again you get some who are more career-orientated and dont particularly give thoughts to marriage as much as they should, so become quite old and then start looking, when all the good men have gone! lol.format_quote Originally Posted by Salahudeen
The living with in-laws thing is kind of annoying I think. Fair enough, in like Pakistan or somewhere it would be ideal to live with them, but in England I think it is a big problem. Firstly there wont be much privacy in the home, its not like Muslims have really big houses here. And being cooped up with them can cause a lot of problems.
Secondly, I have heard of LOTS of women being mistreated by in-laws. Im not saying all in-laws are bad, but women should not be expected to live with them as soon as they are married. Its like they are marrying the family, not the guy, which is really sad IMO.
I agree but men are raised by their parents to marry a girl who wants to live with in laws lol, so thats why they have that mentality, their parents tell them "good girl is one who looks after your mother also" etc. Not that I agree that its requirement of every marriage that the girl lives with in laws but in some situations its best. But this is the problem, some people think its mandatory in every marriage and then the mentality gets passed onto each generation etc. so it never goes away.format_quote Originally Posted by joyous fairy
If there is non mehram men around then it should be avoided, but for someone like me with no bro's, sis or dad, I expect it from my wife also and will probably end up going to Pakistan to find such a woman.
Mother in laws are stereotyped here lol everyone thinks their evil, yes thats what happened with lots of women in my family, all the women who excelled in education are in their early and late 30s still single, but all the women who never excelled in education are married with kids, I see a pattern
Last edited by Salahudeen; 01-20-2012 at 06:02 PM.
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I agree. Parents do tend to pass on that mentality to their kids.format_quote Originally Posted by SalahudeenI agree but men are raised by their parents to marry a girl who wants to live with in laws lol, so thats why they have that mentality, their parents tell them "good girl is one who looks after your mother also" etc. Not that I agree that its requirement of every marriage that the girl lives with in laws but in some situations its best. But this is the problem, some people think its mandatory in every marriage and then the mentality gets passed onto each generation etc. so it never goes away.
If there is non mehram men around then it should be avoided, but for someone like me with no bro's, sis or dad, I expect it from my wife also and will probably end up going to Pakistan to find such a woman.
Mother in laws are stereotyped here lol everyone thinks their evil, yes thats what happened with lots of women in my family, all the women who excelled in education are in their early and late 30s still single, but all the women who never excelled in education are married with kids, I see a pattern
In your case, yes that would be ideal and I dont think women would object to that. It would be wrong to expect you to leave your mum alone and go and live somewhere else with your wife.
But some women get married to guys who have brothers/sisters and parents living in one house and they expect the wife to do all the housework and cook for the whole family! Its unfair.
Lol, Ive seen that pattern around here tooBut, also I have noticed that the ones who do not go into further education end up getting married from Pakistan or wherever at an early age. And more because their parents have wanted them to.
I know its unfair but this has become part of culture and I don't know how it can be eradicated because people are stubborn to change, if my sister was in that situation I would feel sorry for her but would tell her most men expect this that doesn't mean its right, but the chances are you will have this problem with most men you meet so what is a girl meant to do, not marry cos every guy she meets expects her to live with in laws and just stay single.
I have an aunty who when she first got married her husband required this of her also due to financial reasons but when they had kids by that time he could afford his own place financially so he decided they should move out. When she was living with in laws she didn't like it but she put up with it and now everythings ok, and I bet those girls who rejected him before he married my aunty cos he wanted them to live with in laws are feeling a bit envious. Even when he decided to move out his family didn't like it and told him to stay but by that time he was so in live with his wife he didn't listen to them lol. And now the family don't like his wife and accuse her of stealing their son and trying to take him away from the family so its impossible situation.
I have another relative who rejected a man cos he wanted her to live with his mother only, and my grandad told her she was silly cos it wouldn't have been forever. And she's 37 and never been married, cos she keeps refusing men due to their basic job, or wanting her to live with in laws. But she says, she'd rather stay single than be married and not happy. So each to their own I guess.
Last edited by Salahudeen; 01-20-2012 at 06:41 PM.
See, the whole living with your in-laws thing is puzzling for me, but I am not Asian and was not born Muslim.
Here in the USA, it's expected that you move out when you turn 18. You go off to university and you never look back. My sister did this. Except for a short time after she finished school, she left home at 18 and never looked back.
I, being the socially awkward nerd that I am, lived with my parents until I was almost 31. It never felt like it was time for me to go, and then one day I literally just woke up and decided that it was time to make my own way in the world.
But I was by far the exception to the rule. Almost all of my friends that are my age left home as soon as they finshed high school and they never looked back.
Brother Salahudeen does mention a good point though, that ties in with my theory. He was talking about the well-educated women that want someone of greater or equal status for a partner. This is unfortunately something that I have seen in my own life. I have a theory on that too, but I won't go into details here. I will just say that formal education and personal income are overrated, and our society places too much emphasis on both of them.
There is also the whole Western notion of "falling in love" before you marry, but that's a whole rant unto itself.
In closing, I will say this: Don't worry, Asian sisters. Here's one white guy who would marry you...
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