If Polygamy has been approved by Allah and made possible, why the need to discuss it often?
As per my opening post, I have clearly mentioned that this thread
"is not a question of whether polygamy is permissible for men or not (because it has been decreed by Allah, and it is)...." Please re-read my initial post to insha Allah, understand the basis for this thread.
I, as well as many here, accept the wisdom of polygamy set by Allah.....so I assure it is not necessary to try to convince us of this : )
(JazakAllah for the time and trouble taken) in this regard.
As far as the prophet not allowing Ali a second wife it had not to do with fatimah herself,it was about Abu Jahl. He was the enemy of Allah and our prophet (saw) would not have his daughter and the daughter of the enemy of Allah be co-wives. See how different it is from the version you suggested? That he thought his daughter would be too hurt to have a co-wife? Not true at all.
JazakAllah for the above.....
I have, however, heard scholars themselves use the situation between Ali (ra) and Fathimah (as) as a reason for women being allowed to stipulate their wishes regarding polygamy in the nikkah contract (which btw are the interpretations of the Hanbali and Hanafee schools of thought).
Well, if i become more pious and can support it financially, i might consider to do polygamy. Ofcourse first wive can talk with husband who he considers, but its not the matter of the first wive to prevent polygamy, only the husband can choose for that. But women these days, seems to be jealous at each other when they marry the same guy, just act nice to each other and share knowledge, isn't that hard. a pious women won't mind... Insha'Allah
Last edited by Jedi_Mindset; 04-16-2012 at 02:17 PM.
http://www.youtube.com/user/robinb4life?feature=mhee
I will not calm down until I will put one cheek of a tyrant on the ground and the other under my feet, and for the poor and weak, I will put my cheek on the ground. - Umar ibn khattab(Ra)
Currently I live with minimal things actually. So yes it's quite easy with minimal things to be honest, life is much less stressful. A woman should be satisfied with what her husband can provide, it is the man's issue providing separate accommodations, not the woman's.
Sis, we are going back and forth. "Minimal things" include rent, water, shelter etc. Now a man in polygamy marriage has to pay twice for rent, water, shelter. Plus he also has to pay children from both wives too. I mentioned separate accommodations because according to you, it is fairly easy to do so in polygamy marriage for a man not woman.
I just wish to reply to the above, before we insha Allah can close here - and remain back on topic:
Hereunder are the views of the four Madhaahib to your queries pertaining to putting conditions in a Nikah:
a) Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbaliy (RA) ? If the wife puts conditions in the Nikah, the husband must fulfil them, otherwise the wife has a right to divorce herself if the husband goes against those conditions. (Dars Taqreer Tirmidhi vol.3 pg.412)
b) Imaam Maalik (RA) ? the conditions will not be effective and it is Makrooh to make such a conditions. (Ibid)
c) Imaam Shaafi?ee (RA) ? The Nikah will be valid but the condition will be invalid. (Fiqh alaa Madhaahib arbaa vol.4 pg.85)
d) Imaam Abu Hanifa (RA) ? it is compulsory upon the husband to fulfil the conditions.
and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best
Mufti Ebrahim Desai
It is not up to us to be passing our own judgements in these cases.
If there is any doubt - please refer to a scholar who will be able to provide the necessary rulings on these matters, based on the interpretations of those who are far, far more learned than us.
JazakAllah khair.
Polygamy is not in any of what u just posted here sister. yes both parties can write what they want on the marriage contract. If the first wife wants divorce and she wrote it on the contract that there was to be no polygamy then yes she has this right to leave based on that reason . However, for a woman who has NOT written this in her contract it is not a valid reason. Re-read my post. Personally, i find it selfish to put such thing in a marriage contract, it shows how rotten people are now a days. That is an opinion of mine, i never claimed it to be a judgement or a ruling.
-cOsMiC
Last edited by cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn; 04-16-2012 at 02:32 PM.
i used to think having two wives would be harder than just 1 because of more responsibilities and the equality ruling etc.
but some brothers in the mosque told me your life will actually get easier because they will compete for your attention.
Sis, we are going back and forth. "Minimal things" include rent, water, shelter etc. Now a man in polygamy marriage has to pay twice for rent, water, shelter. Plus he also has to pay children from both wives too. I mentioned separate accommodations because according to you, it is fairly easy to do so in polygamy marriage for a man not woman.
you make no sense. Again it's a man's issue, not a woman's. she should be happy with what she has. I never said it was easy, but hardship is much better experienced in dunya than in the akhira. If there is polygamy obviously accommodations are not going to be extravagant or luxurious now are they, especially in these times. You have to share what u have, even if its a slice of bread.
Polygamy is not in any of what u just posted here sister.
Perhaps I should have included the question that was posed to Mufti Desai, where basically a sister is asking whether it is permissible to add a clause in the nikkah contract regarding polygamy.
Personally, i find it selfish to put such thing in a marriage contract, it shows how rotten people are now a days. That is an opinion of mine, i never claimed it to be a judgement or a ruling.
I think it is probably best not to be passing judgements of others as to who is 'rotten' or who has less imaan, etc in cases such as these.
The women in such a situation is only really interested in the particular rulings on such a matter.
you make no sense. Again it's a man's issue, not a woman's. she should be happy with what she has. I never said it was easy, but hardship is much better experienced in dunya than in the akhira. If there is polygamy obviously accommodations are not going to be extravagant or luxurious now are they, especially in these times. You have to share what u have, even if its a slice of bread.
- cOsMiC
Even if the accommodations are not extravagant, it is very hard for most men to afford polygamy. Do people live in extravagant homes now? So it is practically okay to make your current family suffer to create another family?
As per my opening post, I have clearly mentioned that this thread
"is not a question of whether polygamy is permissible for men or not (because it has been decreed by Allah, and it is)...." Please re-read my initial post to insha Allah, understand the basis for this thread.
I, as well as many here, accept the wisdom of polygamy set by Allah.....so I assure it is not necessary to try to convince us of this : )
(JazakAllah for the time and trouble taken) in this regard.
JazakAllah for the above.....
I have, however, heard scholars themselves use the situation between Ali (ra) and Fathimah (as) as a reason for women being allowed to stipulate their wishes regarding polygamy in the nikkah contract (which btw are the interpretations of the Hanbali and Hanafee schools of thought).
I never said it was a question sister, this is what I said:
If Polygamy has been approved by Allah and made possible, why the need to discuss it often? Each person is responsible for their own actions and instead of trying to scold men, which is what is happening here, point out how they should, why they should or should not have more than one wife is none of anybody's concern except the man who is going to be taking on a second wife.
the question was, why the need to discuss it? This thred is about why and how men should take on more wives if the choose to. In any discussion about polygamy, u will find people saying they agree or don't agree with it, if they would do it or not do it, and that is what i was adressing with the very first portion of my statement. I was replying to your post #46 anyhow, not the original post.
Even if the accommodations are not extravagant, it is very hard for most men to afford polygamy. Do people live in extravagant homes now? So it is practically okay to make your current family suffer to create another family?
again you are seeing it from your perspective only. A family can really benefit from polygamy. If there's a second wife that leaves time for either of the women to pitch in financially if they wish to, or gives them time to learn Islam more, teach each other, teach their children together. Even if they live in a shack, the benefits are huge fr the families and community. But you don't see it that way, u see it from "well i have to give up the little that I have just so my husband can get his jollies, that's so unfair" at least, that's what i'm seeing. I could be totally wrong, and forgive me if I am. Personally, I don't see it as making another family suffer, it all depends on the imaan of both parties.
but some brothers in the mosque told me your life will actually get easier because they will compete for your attention.
Let me laugh. When I was young two beautiful girls were compete for my attention. They really hate each other. Then what I did in this situation?. Dating with the third beautiful girl who they never heard before.
I totally disagree that your life would easier if two or more women compete for your attention. But you will get headache because they will always jealous, then angry and interrogate you.
I was familiar with situation when girls compete for me. This is why I do not want to be competed by the women again.
Polygamy is very usefull, for the husband but also for the wives, their families can provide either. Why make such a trouble about it? If my wife thinks she doesn't want me to do polygamy, then she says it to me, but i won't agree without valid reason. I may get a bunch of feminazis reply to me soon, but this is the truth. We men, don't want women anymore who take their own role and don't listen to their husbands anymore. Period.
http://www.youtube.com/user/robinb4life?feature=mhee
I will not calm down until I will put one cheek of a tyrant on the ground and the other under my feet, and for the poor and weak, I will put my cheek on the ground. - Umar ibn khattab(Ra)
Perhaps I should have included the question that was posed to Mufti Desai, where basically a sister is asking whether it is permissible to add a clause in the nikkah contract regarding polygamy.
I think it is probably best not to be passing judgements of others as to who is 'rotten' or who has less imaan, etc in cases such as these.
The women in such a situation is only really interested in the particular rulings on such a matter.
I stand by what I said (keep in mind I did not single out anyone), women making these decisions reflect the state of the Ummah, it is selfish and rotten to prevent other sisters from marrying, and by preventing polygamy in a marriage contract, she IS preventing it. Because she opts out of the marriage if husband decides to marry again, destroying an entire family unit because she can't accept polygamy. So naturally her husband wont be so enthusiastic about a second wife knowing what will happen if he does do it, it's a threat basically. Polygamy is for WOMEN not for men, it has benefits for both, but mainly for women. That is what is not entering in the minds of most women!
- cOsMiC
Last edited by cOsMiCiNtUiTiOn; 04-16-2012 at 03:16 PM.
the question was, why the need to discuss it? This thred is about why and how men should take on more wives if the choose to. In any discussion about polygamy, u will find people saying they agree or don't agree with it, if they would do it or not do it, and that is what i was adressing with the very first portion of my statement. I was replying to your post #46 anyhow, not the original post.
I dont think anyone has 'scolded' any men here (so far, lol) about their right to take on multiple wives.
The basis of my questions is the presumption that men have a 'biological need' to be satisfied - that can not be achieved by one wife......and that the only reason men are now limiting themselves, (in this modern day), has stemmed from the lack of financial means and other social stressors.
Its actually a pretty simple 'yes/ no' question that has been answered directly by the some of the brothers in the earlier posts.
Im not sure why the sisters are dragging other issues into it, considering the question in the topic can really, only be answered by the brothers.
I stand by what I said, women making these decisions reflect the state of the Ummah, it is selfish and rotten to prevent other sisters from marrying, and by preventing polygamy in a marriage contract, she IS preventing it. Because she opts out of the marriage if husband decides to marry again, destroying an entire family unit because she can't accept polygamy. So naturally her husband wont be so enthusiastic about a second wife knowing what will happen if he does do it, it's a threat basically. Polygamy is for WOMEN not for men, it has benefits for both, but mainly for women. That is what is not entering in the minds of most women!
*vid*
- cOsMiC
Oh he totally rocks and is soooo right
May Allah bless him and his efforts. Ameen
http://www.youtube.com/user/robinb4life?feature=mhee
I will not calm down until I will put one cheek of a tyrant on the ground and the other under my feet, and for the poor and weak, I will put my cheek on the ground. - Umar ibn khattab(Ra)
again you are seeing it from your perspective only. A family can really benefit from polygamy. If there's a second wife that leaves time for either of the women to pitch in financially if they wish to, or gives them time to learn Islam more, teach each other, teach their children together. Even if they live in a shack, the benefits are huge fr the families and community. But you don't see it that way, u see it from "well i have to give up the little that I have just so my husband can get his jollies, that's so unfair" at least, that's what i'm seeing. I could be totally wrong, and forgive me if I am. Personally, I don't see it as making another family suffer, it all depends on the imaan of both parties.
-cOsMiC
If a husband is not able to fulfill his obligations towards both women including separate accommodations, he shouldn’t take a second wife. This is what most scholars say, period. So if he is living in shack and is suffering to provide his first wife and her children, he should not get married to another at all. He should not be able to get married to second wife, if his current family is going to suffer. This isn’t from my perspective at all.
And if we be honest with ourselves? Early you said you are living on “minimal things”; you wouldn’t be on the computer using the internet. Internet and computer is fairly extravagant and luxury thing to have. So, no I don’t consider you to be the type of person that lives on minimal things. To me, minimal things mean necessities like food, water and shelter. A lot of people tend to excuse women of stereotypical things like extravagance but fail to consider internet as pretty gaudy. And if we are going to be stereotypical, technology is mainly enjoyed by men and, so men are pretty extravagant. I challenged your thoughts because you are speaking in black and white terms rather than recognising life itself is complex. The statement that all women must accept polygamy otherwise they are selfish and lack iman to me is black and white thinking. Then when you think in such a way, we display ourselves to be hypocrites. Oh polygamy wouldn’t so hard if these women were to accept minimal things whilst saying this over the internet and then afterwards head to our playstation 3 or drive to our next location.
Polygamy is a good idea if the husband is righteous and righteous people are rare in this world. Many men in Islamic countries use polygamy in Islam to fulfill their needs. So obviously, women have grown up to not trust their husband in a polygamous marriage. Furthermore, a man has to respect his wife's decision as well. If she is not happy, he needs to consider that. Not everyone woman likes to be in a polygamous marriage and we all need to respect that.
Off topic posts have been removed. I mentioned in an earlier post that anything outside of the current topic, including marriage contracts, basic rights of the spouses and other similar topics, are to be discussed in new threads. Further off topic posts will be removed to avoid derailing this thread.
And verily for everything that a slave loses there is a substitute, but the one who loses Allah will never find anything to replace Him.” [Related by Ibn al-Qayyim in ad-Dâ' wad-Dawâ Fasl 49]
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