Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not? (OP)
Salaam my muslim brothers and sisters. Hello everyone else
Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not? I mean, I don't really mind if my future wife is a virgin or not. I think that as long as she repent her sins and truly believes in Islam, I believe that she will make a wonderful wife.
I think the mindset of being okay with marrying someone who has a past is admirable but there are certain issues that might arise so people should think carefully before getting into it.
Irrespective of anything, marriage in and of itself is hard work to keep healthy. Shaytan will always be at hand to give waswas and try his best to ignite a row and cause discord. One party having a past, whilst the other doesn't, is an ammo that they shaytan can use against a couple.
For example, there is the issue of how many people she or he has been with. Would you be comfortable being in bed with your spouse and wondering whether your spouse enjoys the time with you as much as they did with the person(s) from the past?
Then the issue of STDs. It would be prudent to ask a prospective to take a test before marriage. Might be a touchy issue to raise to begin with. What if it turns out positive?
Also a wider concern might be whether she or he has a bad reputation around the neighbourhood. Would you be able to live with going out into the street wondering what people who know of her past might be thinking? Would it bother you? Do you have the strength and patience to handle such things? Would you be able to ward of the attacks of shaytan?
What if your parents and family didn't know about her past and found out after marriage and they were to confront you with it. How would you react? What potential side-effects could there be to your marriage and your relationship with your family/extended family?
If it ever came down to it and you were having an argument, would you be tempted to use the past against her?
Then there's also the issue of him or her still having some kind of emotional attachment to past flings. In this day and age, people can contact each other with so much ease, maybe she still has him on facebook or blackberry or msn or whatever or they occasionally email each other to see how they are doing? Any sane husband/wife would not want that but would you be able to trust her enough to know that she wouldn't do that?
What if the guy from the past lived in the same area as you? Would it bother you being around that person knowing that you might bump into him whilst out with your wife? Would it bother you that this guy in front of you knows all your wife's physical secrets?
Like I said, it's admirable to not care for a person's past but I think one would need to be quite strong mentally and spiritually to get into and maintain such a relationship. That does depend a lot on the circumstance of the people involved, though.
I think you should think very carefully. Don't be naive and don't be gung-ho about it - I.e. don't make a blatant attempt to 'screw backward thinking culture' by marrying a non-virgin as a statement, lest you get yourself into a difficult situation that you can't handle.
Only after you have thought carefully and feel confident that you would be able to handle any difficult situation that would arise and also after you have prayed for guidance should you go ahead and decide for or against.
Re: Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not?
Salaam!
I agree with Alpha Dude's comment. Virgin or no virgin should not be the main factor when choosing a wife. Please get tested (both of you) and make sure that neither of your past will affect your future. Before marriage, seriously investigate her character. How much does she love Allah? How much does she love being a muslimah? Will she make a good mother to your children and teach them about Islam? WIll she be respectable to your family, especially your mother? See how she is when she is happiest (can you live with that?)
See how she is when she is unhappy (can you live with that?) Don't leave any cracks for Shaytan to enter your marriage. Get to know her and the things she likes (Can you manage that?) Tell her her expectations as a husband and be serious.
Covet, cherish, and protect your marriage once you are in it, seriously. Like keep people OUT (including certain family members) of you and her marital business as much as possible.
Re: Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not?
If the opening question would have been; are we allowed to have this preferance, of course everybody would have agreed on that. But that wasn't the isue.
The question was, does it matter? And no, it doesn't. It's merely a cultural thing. sure a preferance we're allowed to have, but a cultural none theless. And none of the things you quoted change any of that. do you really think you are in any way capable of assesing wheter a person is good or bad based on his/her past sins? Only Allah can be the judge of that.
The things that you can check, is what kind of nature somebody has, how he/she cunducts him/herself and so on. some of the best sahaba's had done unthinkable deeds before converting, and that didn't change the fact that out of them some were regarded as the best people who have ever lived next to the prophets of course.
So obviously past deeds don't make a person bad or good.
And Allah Knows Best.
Last edited by Muslim Woman; 01-06-2013 at 04:16 PM.
Reason: post was a little bit harsh .
Re: Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not?
Salaam for all you answers, just a few things.
format_quote Originally Posted by ardianto
Bad people can turn into good people, just like good people can turn into bad people. How is someone now is more important than how was he/she in the past.
I completely agree to ^. I mean people sometimes don't like the fact that their wife has had a bad past and the male maybe won't marry the female. Same goes the other way around. I believe that with the help of Allah, we can all change from good to bad, we shouldn't judge because of the past.
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
The fact that the person has repented only means that she might be forgiven by Allah. It however does not take away from the fact that she enjoyed (during times of jahiliyah) and had fun in past life (even though she feels guilty now, I am sure she always knew zina is haraam, even kaafirs have sense of shame, its fitra, so there is no excuse that ooh i did not know zina is wrong), and it is extremely hard to marry such a person knowing that with the help of Allah you succeeded in keeping away from that sin despite all the temptations a young man has to face at school and at work.
^^^ I have to disagree with this because I am a teenager right now and I'm pretty sure that all teens make mistakes which will affect them in the later years (drugs, sex, friends). Teenagers especially don't realize this and we all tend to make mistakes without actually "thinking." For example, a teenage male may have a girlfriend thinking it is alright since he will eventually marry her. The female may think the same. They aren't actually committing a sin like zina because they don't know whether or not they will marry each-other one day...They don't know right from wrong as much as we (older and mature Muslims) know.
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
even if they have repented, they are not the same. Allah might or might not forgive them, but as long as sharia is concerned, they and virgins who have not committed that sin (despite temptations) cannot be equal.
Isn't everyone equal according to the Quran?
format_quote Originally Posted by islamica
An expression used by Shaykh Muhammad Hussein Ya’qub to describe the single young girl who doesn’t have a sexual relationship with a man but who lives a love relationship with him through net, chat, phone … Virginity doesn’t only mean the virginity of the body but it includes also the virginity of the heart : feelings, emotions. There is only one man who deserves the warm feelings and the passionate love of a Muslimah: her husband… any other man than him is just a source of Fintnah and calamity for her in Dunya. Today, in the name of freedom of the woman, the people who claimed to be “civilized” killed the title:“virgin” to replace it by “mistress” or “experienced in love” ! They are calling for “freedom of the woman” by killing everything beautiful in her : her chastity, shyness, purity …
Virgin = never had intercourse... right?
format_quote Originally Posted by AngelPearl
*and man/boy lol just needed to add that to make it sound perfect I'm sure every chaste Muslim woman would want a chaste Muslim man....
Not exactly, remember, we all make mistakes. Sometimes we have to forgive our brothers and sisters for what they have done in the past.
format_quote Originally Posted by Alpha Dude
I think the mindset of being okay with marrying someone who has a past is admirable but there are certain issues that might arise so people should think carefully before getting into it.
Irrespective of anything, marriage in and of itself is hard work to keep healthy. Shaytan will always be at hand to give waswas and try his best to ignite a row and cause discord. One party having a past, whilst the other doesn't, is an ammo that they shaytan can use against a couple.
For example, there is the issue of how many people she or he has been with. Would you be comfortable being in bed with your spouse and wondering whether your spouse enjoys the time with you as much as they did with the person(s) from the past?
Then the issue of STDs. It would be prudent to ask a prospective to take a test before marriage. Might be a touchy issue to raise to begin with. What if it turns out positive?
Also a wider concern might be whether she or he has a bad reputation around the neighbourhood. Would you be able to live with going out into the street wondering what people who know of her past might be thinking? Would it bother you? Do you have the strength and patience to handle such things? Would you be able to ward of the attacks of shaytan?
What if your parents and family didn't know about her past and found out after marriage and they were to confront you with it. How would you react? What potential side-effects could there be to your marriage and your relationship with your family/extended family?
If it ever came down to it and you were having an argument, would you be tempted to use the past against her?
Then there's also the issue of him or her still having some kind of emotional attachment to past flings. In this day and age, people can contact each other with so much ease, maybe she still has him on facebook or blackberry or msn or whatever or they occasionally email each other to see how they are doing? Any sane husband/wife would not want that but would you be able to trust her enough to know that she wouldn't do that?
What if the guy from the past lived in the same area as you? Would it bother you being around that person knowing that you might bump into him whilst out with your wife? Would it bother you that this guy in front of you knows all your wife's physical secrets?
Like I said, it's admirable to not care for a person's past but I think one would need to be quite strong mentally and spiritually to get into and maintain such a relationship. That does depend a lot on the circumstance of the people involved, though.
I think you should think very carefully. Don't be naive and don't be gung-ho about it - I.e. don't make a blatant attempt to 'screw backward thinking culture' by marrying a non-virgin as a statement, lest you get yourself into a difficult situation that you can't handle.
Only after you have thought carefully and feel confident that you would be able to handle any difficult situation that would arise and also after you have prayed for guidance should you go ahead and decide for or against.
^^^ Agreed.
STD testing right before marriage, um, isn't that bad?
A lot of muslims (from U.S.A and Canada (where I live)) marry someone living in another country and bring them to their country for a "fresh new start."
format_quote Originally Posted by cottonrainbow
I agree with Alpha Dude's comment. Virgin or no virgin should not be the main factor when choosing a wife. Please get tested (both of you) and make sure that neither of your past will affect your future. Before marriage, seriously investigate her character. How much does she love Allah? How much does she love being a muslimah? Will she make a good mother to your children and teach them about Islam? WIll she be respectable to your family, especially your mother? See how she is when she is happiest (can you live with that?)
See how she is when she is unhappy (can you live with that?) Don't leave any cracks for Shaytan to enter your marriage. Get to know her and the things she likes (Can you manage that?) Tell her her expectations as a husband and be serious.
Covet, cherish, and protect your marriage once you are in it, seriously. Like keep people OUT (including certain family members) of you and her marital business as much as possible.
^^^ I agree that marital business should be kept secret from the rest of the world.
Get tested for STD??? "Honey, let's get tested before marriage... Just so I know you're virgin!"
format_quote Originally Posted by Abdul Fattah
The question was, does it matter? And no, it doesn't. It's merely a cultural thing. sure a preferance we're allowed to have, but a cultural none theless. And none of the things you quoted change any of that. do you really think you are in any way capable of assesing wheter a person is good or bad based on his/her past sins? Only Allah can be the judge of that.
Agreed also, Allah makes the decisions for us. We shouldn't judge. Allah does what is best for us, if he so chooses that a virgin marry a non-virgin, we shouldn't differentiate.
Re: Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not?
format_quote Originally Posted by Iceee
Salaam my muslim brothers and sisters. Hello everyone else
Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not? I mean, I don't really mind if my future wife is a virgin or not. I think that as long as she repent her sins and truly believes in Islam, I believe that she will make a wonderful wife.
Salam alaykum
other question is of course, does she marry virgin man, without the past?
From Occupied Palestine:
We have suffered too much for too long. We will not accept apartheid masked as peace. We will settle for no less than our freedom.
Re: Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not?
format_quote Originally Posted by sister harb
Virgin man = no sexual contacts to anyone before, no emotional contacts to other gender.
What else it could means?
Salaam.
The term "Virgin" is different for everyone. The literal meaning is when someone who has never had sexual intercourse. But you are saying is "Virgin man = no sexual contacts to anyone before, no emotional contacts to other gender."
Re: Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not?
format_quote Originally Posted by CosmicPathos
even if they have repented, they are not the same. Allah might or might not forgive them, but as long as sharia is concerned, they and virgins who have not committed that sin (despite temptations) cannot be equal.
By non-virgins, I am referring to zaaniyahs. If someone is not a virgin cuz of previous marriage etc, there is no sin on her. Its then upto the man to want to marry such a woman. If he can afford multiple marriages, he should marry such women and provide them with family.
Asalaamu Alaikum,
May I humbly ask what opinion do you hold of the Sahabah? Some of who had much worst "pasts" than a mere Zaniya/Zani would have? What do you say when the Prophet(صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم) himself said that their sins were all forgiven the moment they stepped into Islam (which is no different from sincere repentance)?
I find it hard to imagine that if Umar(رضي الله عنه) asked your daughter for her hand, that you would say; "You tried to kill the Prophet in your jahiliyyah days, thus you're still the same person".
Also, how do you possibly even know someone's past, especially if they've fornicated? They're not obliged (or even Islamically encouraged) to tell you, nor is anyone else for that matter (unless they actually have four witnesses).
It is sunna for the one who commits zina and anyone else who commits any act of disobedience to conceal his sin from others. This is because of the hadith, Whoever commits any of these awful sins (qadhurat), let him conceal himself with the concealment of Allah, for verily, whoever exposes his action to us (man abda lana safhatahu), we will impose the hadd punishment upon him (related by Hakim and Bayhaqi with a strong (qawiyy) chain of transmission). Exposing one's sin, then, in order to be punished by a hadd punishment or a discretionary punishment (ta'zir) goes against the recommended way. As for talking about it out of enjoyment (tafakkuhan), it is definitely forbidden (haram) because of the rigorously authenticated hadiths that have come about it. - al-Khatib al-Shirbini, (Mughnil-Muhtaj, 4.195)
As I said above, not being muhsanaat (chaste) does not just mean having committed zina, it also had to do with other things such as moral behaviour. This is something you can easily see and judge by knowing what friends they hang around with and what places they go to.
But knowing if someone commits zina is something you can't really know. Maybe if the person for some reason confesses (even though they shouldn't have), then you can know and decide to not marry them. But this rarely will ever happen, and someone can easily marry someone with a "past" without ever knowing anything about it.
I know some people have "expectations and standards", but I think we need to look at reality here from an Islamic point of view. Repentance is bestowed upon this Ummah as a mercy for a good reason. There's a good reason why reverts previous sins are completly wiped clean. - If none of this were the case, then so many Sahabah would've been held accountable for their pasts.
I'll sum it up with this;
The fiancé or husband has no right to ask about his wife's past. It is sufficient for him that she is righteous and is known for good at the time of marrying her, and there is nothing wrong with her religious commitment or chastity. As to whether she did anything haraam in the past, but then repented from it and became righteous, it is wrong to ask her about that and make her choose between telling lies or getting divorced, or make her tell her secrets and disclose that which Allaah had concealed for her, then if she tells him the truth, that opens the door to doubt and suspicion.
Insha'Allah, you can understand the wisdom behind this as nothing but a mercy from the Creator.
format_quote Originally Posted by Iceee
Zani (male who is guilty of illegal sex) Zaniyah (female who is guilty of illegal sex) Mushrik (a man) who does not think it is unlawful. Mushrikah (female idolator)
Thank you for your quote.
But let's say a virgin male marries a Zaniyah (woman who had illegal sex (zina)), then would that make that virgin male a Mushrik? Even if the woman repent her sins?
The majority of the scholars [including the Hanafi, Shafi’i and Maliki madhabs] have said that a Muslim can still technically marry a Muslim fornicator (without them repenting). However, what would be considered haraam is sexual intercourse with that fornicator, until they repent (the marriage contract stays valid). [1][2]
But you don't become a Mushrik by marrying/having intercourse. You should ask a scholar to not only clarify but to explain it in more detail to you.
Last edited by Perseveranze; 01-07-2013 at 01:33 AM.
Re: Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not?
The bottom line is that Islam and the Prophet (s) encourages one to marry virgins, especially if they are virgins themselves. This is not to say widows or divorcee shouldn't be married to but rather virgins marrying virgins will better understand each other and will both start on the same page. However this is not an obligation, so if someone finds another person who isn't one but comes from a halal relationship or repented from their haram relationship than the end choice is their to make. As pointed out by Alpha Dude, there are certain social aspects one must consider before going into such a relationship. After that final decision is that of the individual.
format_quote Originally Posted by Perseveranze
]I know some people have "expectations and standards", but I think we need to look at reality here from an Islamic point of view. Repentance is bestowed upon this Ummah as a mercy for a good reason. There's a good reason why reverts previous sins are completely wiped clean. - If none of this were the case, then so many Sahabah would've been held accountable for their pasts.
I understand all that you stated. What the brother meant was that you cannot undo what has already been done. One who has done zina cannot become a virgin again, even if they go get the op. While repentance wipes out the sin, it does not give back the virginity nor take away the experience gained. And as such, why should a virgin who saved him/herself all their lives from such a sin be told it's ok to marry such a person because they are repented. yes, if they want than they can. But they have every right to marry someone who has kept themselves as pure as this person did.
I also understand the scholars advice of concealing their past and saying the truth in a dubious way that it can be taken to mean anything so the husband or would be doesn't suspect it. However, i can't agree with that. That is deceitful and if someone wants to marry someone like them, then it is unfair to them. This reminds me of a marriage case in france. A muslim asked a muslim women if she was virgin before getting married and she said yes. after marriage he found out it was not the case, he went to the court have their marriage annulled. The country was in uproar but the judge agreed with the man that he said he was marrying a virgin in the contract and she wasn't one. Can you imagine the humiliation she went through because of deceitfulness.
Re: Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not?
format_quote Originally Posted by islamica
I understand all that you stated. What the brother meant was that you cannot undo what has already been done. One who has done zina cannot become a virgin again, even if they go get the op. While repentance wipes out the sin, it does not give back the virginity nor take away the experience gained. And as such, why should a virgin who saved him/herself all their lives from such a sin be told it's ok to marry such a person because they are repented. yes, if they want than they can. But they have every right to marry someone who has kept themselves as pure as this person did.
I also understand the scholars advice of concealing their past and saying the truth in a dubious way that it can be taken to mean anything so the husband or would be doesn't suspect it. However, i can't agree with that. That is deceitful and if someone wants to marry someone like them, then it is unfair to them. This reminds me of a marriage case in france. A muslim asked a muslim women if she was virgin before getting married and she said yes. after marriage he found out it was not the case, he went to the court have their marriage annulled. The country was in uproar but the judge agreed with the man that he said he was marrying a virgin in the contract and she wasn't one. Can you imagine the humiliation she went through because of deceitfulness.
صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم
Sister, if you want to disagree with what the majority of the scholars have stated, including the evidences, then I'm not sure what I can say. I'm sorry if you disagree with "concealing your sins", but I also think you're not understanding the Islamic position here. You, nor anyone else, has the right to dig into anyone's past.
If you're going to judge someone, you should judge someone based on how they are today, in the present. How their character is at this moment in time. This is because a person can change, and Islam recognizes this.
ps. The Muslim man has no right to ask his wife if she is a virgin or not in the first place - how can a marriage contract over-rule what Allah(swt) has concealed? - he should already assume that she is. How he found out later is also strange; as no one can be guilty of fornication unless they;
a) Self confess
b) Have four witnesses
Anything outside that isn't accepted, and if someone isn't careful, they can be guilty of accusing someone of being unchaste and suffering 80 lashes because of it.
"Those who slander male or female believers [i.e. Muslims] by accusing them of committing zina or sodomy, must produce four witnesses to testify before the judge, supporting their accusation; otherwise, they are to be punished (i.e. 80 lashes)." - Abu Bakr Al-Jaza'iri, At-Tafsir Al-Muyassar
It is wrong for him to ask the wife for a divorce on this basis.
Re: Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not?
Salaam.
Ja'zakullah for answering the question given: Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not?
Reading all of the comments and looking at the posters,
Males: Most believe that the male after marriage should not ask questions to wife about past. Same other way around
Females: Believe that the male/female has every right to know the persons past.
In the end, I truly truly believe that this issue should be kept secret and hidden. Who are we to judge what someone has done in the past. As a male virgin (18), I don't wish to know about my wife's past relationships if she had any. I do care though that she repent and is more religious in Islam. Maybe you will hate me or you may love me but I feel as though everyone should be given a second chance. As I mentioned, we ALL make mistakes, forgiveness MUST be given.
Please lock/close thread, we don't need anymore fighting about this topic.
Re: Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not?
format_quote Originally Posted by Perseveranze
صلى الله عليه وآله وسلم
It is wrong for him to ask the wife for a divorce on this basis.
He had a condition in his contract to marry a chaste virgin which she claimed to be, but was found out after marriage. I don't see what's wrong with ending a contract that involved deceit.
Re: Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not?
format_quote Originally Posted by islamica
He had a condition in his contract to marry a chaste virgin which she claimed to be, but was found out after marriage. I don't see what's wrong with ending a contract that involved deceit.
Salaam.
I'm sorry to say this but this seems crazy. How would the husband have known? Was it because the female was missing her hymen or was it because she told him. "Having 4 witnesses" as mentioned above seems impossible; 4 people watching female having sex with a man (not her husband)???
What if she repent? What is she was a better Muslim? What if she loved her husband and told him because she loves him!?
Islamica, if you were in this situation, what would you do?
Re: Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not?
format_quote Originally Posted by Iceee
Salaam.
I'm sorry to say this but this seems crazy. How would the husband have known? Was it because the female was missing her hymen or was it because she told him. "Having 4 witnesses" as mentioned above seems impossible; 4 people watching female having sex with a man (not her husband)???
What if she repent? What is she was a better Muslim? What if she loved her husband and told him because she loves him!?
Islamica, if you were in this situation, what would you do?
السلام عليكم
It will never work for fornication, you just won't be able to prove it. Not to mention how dangerous it is for yourself if you ended up accusing without the required proofs.
I suppose the other factor is previous marriages. Technically, if you married in the past, you would be considered a non-virgin. So if someone found out they had a previous marriage that was not stated, then they can potentially cancel the marriage.
Re: Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not?
format_quote Originally Posted by Iceee
Salaam.
I'm sorry to say this but this seems crazy. How would the husband have known? Was it because the female was missing her hymen or was it because she told him. "Having 4 witnesses" as mentioned above seems impossible; 4 people watching female having sex with a man (not her husband)???
What if she repent? What is she was a better Muslim? What if she loved her husband and told him because she loves him!?
Islamica, if you were in this situation, what would you do?
wa'alaikum as'salaam,
i don't know the details of the story, read it long time ago. you can look it up on google or something.
Re: Does it really matter if I marry a virgin or not?
Salaam once again.
You didn't answer my last question... Whether you are a virgin or were a virgin when you got married should be kept to yourself. But let's say that you were a virgin when you married, would you expect the same from your husband (to be a virgin as well)?
format_quote Originally Posted by Iceee
Islamica, if you were in this situation, what would you do?
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