an effort to bring peace between different faiths,beliefs and lifestyles

**muslim brother** · 12-17-2016

we need to post examples where a different religion or differing lifestyles has not been a hindrance to our humanity.

ill start,
we had a hindu guest for 2 days..she prayed how she wanted in my house
when we went to her aunties to drop her off ,we prayed salah their..

ill let allah taala be my judge

**ardianto** · 12-26-2016

Originally Posted by frabgas27

http://www.peacewithrealism.org/jihad/jihad03.htm

Here is the evidence for it not being sahih, as it hasnt appeared in any of the authenticated volumes. Bukhari,dawud,muslim etc...

Just wonder, why you take reference from Jewish site?.

**frabgas27** · 12-26-2016

Originally Posted by ardianto

Just wonder, why you take reference from Jewish site?.

Is it lying? I dont see whats worse, lying about what muhammad saw or getting reference from a site that is supposedly jewish but with correct sources and reliable sources in terms of authenticated words of prophet saw.

**ardianto** · 12-26-2016

Originally Posted by frabgas27

Is it lying? I dont see whats worse, lying about what muhammad saw or getting reference from a site that is supposedly jewish but with correct sources and reliable sources in terms of authenticated words of prophet saw.

Non-Muslim's site is not the right place to take reference about Islam because their view based on their own opinion that not reflect Muslim's view.

Do you know, bro?. If I want to learn about Christianity I will learn from Christian's source. If I want to learn about Buddhism I will learn from Buddhist's source. I do not learn from what other people say about them.

**frabgas27** · 12-26-2016

Originally Posted by ardianto

Non-Muslim's site is not the right place to take reference about Islam because their view based on their own opinion that not reflect Muslim's view.

Do you know, bro?. If I want to learn about Christianity I will learn from Christian's source. If I want to learn about Buddhism I will learn from Buddhist's source. I do not learn from what other people say about them.

Thats where you verify the sources, and thats what I have done. Now we were on the topic of jihad fisabillilah, and how the narration that a sister posed is not saheeh. So the case still stands that jihad fisabillilaha- going out and fighting is greatest deed. And that islam was spread by the sword and will continue to be spread by the sword.

**Scimitar** · 12-26-2016

http://www.acommonword.com/

Scimi

**sister herb** · 12-26-2016

I don´t believe you really understand what we are talking when we talk about interfaith dialogue, brother frabgas27. We are talking about tolerance, understanding of others and peaceful co-existence. You can leave your sword now to the storage cupboard and sit peacefully with us to the same (figurative) table. We just try to understand each others better and learn to respect others to make sure we can avoid useless conflicts and misunderstandings at the future.

**Scimitar** · 12-26-2016

Originally Posted by frabgas27

And that islam was spread by the sword and will continue to be spread by the sword.

This myth has been propagated for far too long. It's time the record was set straight once and for all.

Professor Hodgson has explained the reasons for the popularity of Islam as follows: "Muslims made a personal appeal to people's religious consciousness. On the level of straight argument, they often put forward the populistic intelligibility of Islam. Muslims commonly ridiculed, in the name of intellectual good sense, the more mythically convoluted teachings of older traditions. This could seem attractively straightforward to people dissatisfied with taking things on faith from a learned priest whose mysteries they could not comprehend. A single Creator, to be worshipped by each person for himself, on the basis of revelation that had been given to a famous prophet whom millions already acknolwedged. This was at once intelligible and plausible."

The French professor Edouard Montet said, "The dogma of the unity of God...has always been proclaimed in the Qur'an with a grandeur, a majesty, an invariable purity and with a note of pure conviction which is hard to find surpassed outside the pale of Islam. A creed so precise, so stripped of all theological complexities and so accessible to the ordinary understanding might be expected to possess and does indeed possess a marvellous power of winning its way into the consciences of men."

To quote Sir Arnold, "The religion of the Muslim is continuously present with him and, in the daily prayer, manifests itself in a solemn and impressive ritual which cannot leave either the worshipper or the spectator unaffected." Then Sir Arnold narrated the story of an Egyptian Jew who converted to Islam at the end of the 13th century mainly because of the sight of the "Juma'a" prayer.

Ambassador Herman Ellis, in a testimony in front of the committee on Foreign Affirs of the House of Represntatives of the United States Congress on June 24th, 1985, said, "The Muslim community of the globe today is in the neighbourhood of one billion. That is an impressive figure. But what to me is equally impressive is that Islam today is the fastest growing monotheistic religion. This is something we have to take into account. Something is right about Islam. It is attracting a good many people."

I can go on and on with quotes but instead, I'd prefer to present a unique insight into the myth "Islam was spread by the sword" with the following, in sha Allah:

Syrian archaeological dig reveals myth of Islam spreading by the sword
by Mike Addelman
Source: The University of Manchester

SyriaKhanuqaGap600x402 1 - an effort to bring peace between different faiths,beliefs and lifestyles

SyriaKhanuqaGap600x402 1 - an effort to bring peace between different faiths,beliefs and lifestyles

An archaeologist working in Syria has solved the mystery of why one of Islam’s earliest fortresses dropped out of the historical record around 1,100 years ago.

Senior Lecturer Dr Emma Loosley from The University of Manchester was one of an international team of experts invited into the world-renowned Khanuqa Gap by the Syrian Department of Antiquities before its secrets – and 11,000 years of human history – may be lost to a controversial dam project.

Dr Loosley, who has been unable to return to Syria because of the current conflict, found that 1,100 years ago a fire raged through what was regarded as an impregnable fortress.

Her work has also helped show that, contrary to popular understanding, the earliest Muslim expansion across the Middle East was largely peaceful and typified by coexistence with Christians.

Like Jerusalem’s Dome of the Rock, the citadel – called Zalabiyeh – was one of the first buildings to be inhabited by Muslims as they spread across the Syrian desert.

It was constructed during the Byzantine Empire before being renovated under the Umayyad Dynasty during Islam’s first period of expansion from Mecca in the early seventh century.

The first of four Arab caliphates following the death of Muhammed, the Umayyad dynasty left Mecca to establish one of the largest empires the world had yet seen.

Zalabiyeh, its sister citadel Halabiyeh and dozens of other crucially important sites may be flooded as part of a major HEP project.

Dr Loosley’s undergraduate student Joshua Bryant, who worked with her, was able to date the citadel to c.500 AD by analysing the way its walls were constructed.

He received a University award for his dissertation which he hopes to publish in a journal – a rare feat for an undergraduate.

Dr Loosley excavated burned beams and roof tiles – alongside other finds -including a fully functioning barracks, a human tooth, copper belt buckle, plaster spinning wheel, fragments of an alabaster mirror, and painted wall plaster.

She also found some ovens still crammed with charred chicken bones and ash.

The evidence points to a fire which forced the soldiers to leave but also a peaceful takeover of the previously Byzantine controlled citadel by Umayyad soldiers.

The artefacts are in Syria awaiting further analysis by Dr Loosley once – or if – she is able to return.

She said: “There is little evidence of any violence in the years before the citadel burned down, but there is intriguingly so much more to learn.

We don’t even know if the soldiers who took over control from the Byzantines were Muslims or Christians even though they were subjects of the Umayadd caliph.

Coexistence typified those times: some even argue that one reason why so many Christians converted to Islam is because the major sources of tension and conflict were between Christian factions themselves.”

She added: “The Khanuqa Gap is a major crossing point on the River Euphrates and so has been politically, economically and socially important to human beings for 11,000 years.

It contains evidence of continuous human settlement through many civilisations including Assyrian, Roman, Arab – an astonishing area to work in and one of the most important in the world.

So our work to understand as much as we can before it disappears is hugely important and I hope to be able go back as soon as it is safe to do so.”

The work was funded by the British Academy and the Osmane Aidi foundation.

A version of Dr Loosley’s book, Christian Responses to Islam and Muslim-Christian Relations in the Modern World, edited with Anthony O’Mahony is published by Manchester University Press in January 2012.

Interesting stuff,

I found loads of stuff disproving the idea that Islam was spread by the sword, back in the days - and this was just some of it.

Scimi

**sister herb** · 12-26-2016

Originally Posted by frabgas27

I Are you not reading the hadiths of wars that are to come in the future?

Here might be wars in the future but we don´t have to start them. Most of the conflicts people can avoid with talking and listening others. No need to spread hate, not here or anywhere you go.

Interfait dialogue = talking peacefully with people whose faith is not similar like your one. Let yourself to understand themselves might also teach you to understand yourself better.

**Eric H** · 12-26-2016

Greetings and peace be with you frabgas27;

About twenty thousand children will die today as a result of grinding poverty, starvation and preventable disease. That is about seven million unnecessary deaths in a year, or about a hundred million deaths since the new millennium. These will be children from all faiths and no faith.

I doubt that a hundred million Muslims have been unjustly killed since then.

You don't need any swords to put this injustice right.

In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God.

Eric

**frabgas27** · 12-26-2016

Originally Posted by Eric H

Greetings and peace be with you frabgas27;

About twenty thousand children will die today as a result of grinding poverty, starvation and preventable disease. That is about seven million unnecessary deaths in a year, or about a hundred million deaths since the new millennium. These will be children from all faiths and no faith.

I doubt that a hundred million Muslims have been unjustly killed since then.

You don't need any swords to put this injustice right.

In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God.

Eric

Yemen,mali,afghanistan,syria,iraq,pakistan,somalia , palestine, burma? All these places muslims are being slaughtered, blown up to pieces. Most oppression, the muslims suffer. Does that not mean anything to you? With all the bombs raining down on muslim lands and destruction that is left behind, leads to starvation,poverty and diseases in itself. So what is your point?

**Search** · 12-26-2016

(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

Originally Posted by frabgas27

Did America and the west have talks before they blew up muslim lands? Did they or did they not? And guess what we have conflicts, even with your master plan of talking clearly didnt work. And ive learnt that anyone that blows up our lands is an enemy to allah, to muhammad saw and to me. Yet you want to love them as your own? Where is your backbone? Where is your love for your ummah, for muhammad saw ummah? Where is it? So do you believe that imam madhi and Esa AS will spread hate?

Hi. Welcome to this board! I know this question is not directed at me, but I've followed some posts in this thread with interest and therefore would like to address you for the sake of Allah because I do not like the misunderstanding of specifics to be propagated in the name of Islam.

Prophet

(peace and blessings be upon him) said, “The entire humanity is Allah’s family, and Allah loves him most from among this family, who benefits the family most" (Mishkawt). This prophetic tradition specifically talks about entire human beings as a general recipient of benefit that Allah likes to see happen without specification of who is non-Muslim or who is Muslim. Prophet

(peace and blessings be upon him) said, “Do unto all men as you would wish to have done unto you; and reject for others what you would reject for yourselves” (Abu Dawud). This is a harking back to the Golden Rule as a means of encompassing all humanity as part of emphasizing how our best behavior should be reserved for others if we would reject from others their worst behaviors for ourselves.

The Qur'an (49:13) says, "O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted." The word used in this ayah (verse) is "Ya ayyuha annas" referring to human beings. Allah could have said, "Ya Muslimeen" as a reference to Muslims instead to refer to getting to know other Muslims if Allah had wanted to limit it. However, this ayah (verse) specifies us even as Muslims getting to know one another, different cultures and peoples and religions, from the human tribe. Because knowing others is the first step in being able to share ourselves and our faith.

Next, I wanted to address the topic and concept of al-wala' wa-l-bara' (loyalty and disassociation) which you mentioned is meant not to inculcate an us vs. them mentality but to have Muslims understand that loving and hating for the sake of Allah is the primary means through which we do not fall for the stratagems of shaitaan. So, we need to contextualize what it means. So, for example, wala' for non-Muslims who are not fighting are legitimate because if this was not then no Muslim would been allowed to carry out loyalty and love to his non-Muslim wife. What Allah forbids from Muslims is worldly relations to grow to the extent with non-Muslims that it comes above allegiance to Allah and His Prophet

(peace and blessings be upon him) leading Muslims to possibly betray Islamic principles and the ummah like the Arab revolts that led to the fall of the Ottoman Empire. King Negus was a kafir king whose goodness and trustworthiness Prophet

(peace and blessings be upon him) vouched and also asked some of the persecuted Companions

to take shelter in his kingdom because not all Muslims are from whom we required to make bara'. And if there was a blanket prohibition on any type of association of this type, then Allah would not have said the Words in the Qur'an (5:82) "...and you will find the nearest of them in affection to the believers those who say, 'We are Christians.'" That is because among them are priests and monks and because they are not arrogant." Also, let's remember that Prophet :saw: (peace and blessings be upon him) started the interfaith dialogue when he invited disbelievers to his home including Abu Jahl with the intention of proclaiming his prophethood and the Message of Islam. Prophet

(peace and blessings be upon him) recited the Qur'an to disbelievers as a means of inviting interfaith dialogue which is how we even had Surah Kafiroon (Chapter Disbelievers) which is the 109th Chapter of the Qur'an Revealed. Also, Prophet

(peace and blessings be upon him) let's remember used to for the first thirteen years of his prophetic mission used to offer his prayers with his face towards Baytul Maqdis (Jerusalem) with the intention that the Jewish tribes' hearts would be softened to Islam and that perchance they may take heed; this is another example of trying to build interfaith relations; and as you may have a reason to know that Islam was Revealed over a period of 23 years. This means that only a little less than half of Prophet

(peace and blessings be upon him) was spent softening the hearts of Jewish tribes through this interfaith action.

Therefore, the modern understanding that is most notable in some radicalized elements of the Muslim community specific to al-wala' wa-l-bara' (loyalty and disassociation) is a modern deviation from Prophet's

life and conduct specific to unbelievers.

The Prophet

(peace and blessings be upon him) said: "I have been sent to perfect the best of conduct (your behavior and character)" (Bazzaar).

Jihad in Arabic means "to strive for some objective." Thus, the common assumption, that jihad is manifestly only combat, is incorrect. In fact jihad, in its precise meaning, has several branches, among which only some are the combative forms of jihad.

For example, Ibn Rushd, in his Muqaddimaat, divides Jihad into four kinds: "Jihad by the heart; jihad by the tongue; jihad by the hand and jihad by the sword."

Also, I'd like to mention in regards to the objection you raised specific to the prophetic tradition on jihad-al-akbar. While we observe that it is a weak narration, please understand that weak prophetic traditions are not discarded in Islam as they are still considered very valuable but just not a thing on the basis of which we can declare a matter halal (permissible) or haram (forbidden). And it is for this specific reason that notably Imam Nawawi has said: "The scholars from the muhaddiths, the fuqaha and others said: 'it is permissible and recommended to act upon the weak hadith, which is not fabricated, with regard to excellent and virtuous actions, encouragements and warnings.'"

And we already know Allah has said in the Qur'an: “Those who have striven for Our sake, We guide them to Our ways” (29:96).

And in the Qur'an Allah also says, “But those will prosper who purify themselves” (87:14).

Allah has thereby made guidance and success dependent on striving within this vein. Therefore, the most perfect of people are those of them who struggle the most for Allah's sake, and the most obligatory of jihads have long been considered jihad against the ego, the jihad against desires, the jihad against the devil, and the jihad against the lower world (for which the respective Arabic words are jihad al-nafs wa jihad al-hawa wa jihad al-shaytan wa jihad al-dunya). Whoever struggles against these four, Allah will guide them to the ways of His Infinite Pleasure which leads to His Paradise.

(And peace be upon you)

**Search** · 12-26-2016

(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

Originally Posted by BlackFlags

Yes. ❤️

Then you, I'm assuming on account of you championing the brother's idea that you also think the life of Prophet

(peace and blessings be upon him) is a ridiculous life because he did interfaith dialogues? Please read post #42 and educate yourself. You are on both the wrong side of Islamic history and wrong side of Islamic theology if you do not support interfaith dialogues.

(And peace be upon you)

**BlackFlags** · 12-26-2016

Originally Posted by Search

(In the Name of God, the Most Beneficent, the Most Merciful)

(Peace be upon you)

Then you, I'm assuming on account of you championing the brother's idea that you also think the life of Prophet

(peace and blessings be upon him) is a ridiculous life because he did interfaith dialogues? Please read post #42 and educate yourself. You are on both the wrong side of Islamic history and wrong side of Islamic theology if you do not support interfaith dialogues.

(And peace be upon you)

I think what the message we are trying to get across is that some Muslims bend the idea of what Islam really is to please the kuffar and sugar coat it. That is what we are against. We must speak the truth about Islam, and we must not give second thoughts to what these Non Believers think of us. Indeed Allah has chosen Islam, and we must try our best to convey it.

**frabgas27** · 12-26-2016

Originally Posted by BlackFlags

I think what the message we are trying to get across is that some Muslims bend the idea of what Islam really is to please the kuffar and sugar coat it. That is what we are against. We must speak the truth about Islam, and we must not give second thoughts to what these Non Believers think of us. Indeed Allah has chosen Islam, and we must try our best to convey it.

Very well said.

**talibilm** · 12-26-2016

Peace

A hadith had ordered Muslims to honor foreign emissaries (even from Kuffar lands)with gifts implying peace with All and there are incidents that Prophet

co operated with Meccan Kuffar in social welfare matters and verses like these should help us in a the right direction

Allah said 60:7 '' Perhaps Allah will put, between you and those to whom you have been enemies among them, affection. And Allah is competent, and Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

But when you bye bye them better leave them with these verses which was Mentioned to Byzantine by Prophet

( which is NOTHING but also mentioned in their books too )

Noble Quran 3:64'' Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).

**sister herb** · 12-26-2016

Originally Posted by BlackFlags

I think what the message we are trying to get across is that some Muslims bend the idea of what Islam really is to please the kuffar and sugar coat it. That is what we are against. We must speak the truth about Islam, and we must not give second thoughts to what these Non Believers think of us. Indeed Allah has chosen Islam, and we must try our best to convey it.

Another one who doesn´t understand what means interfaith dialogue. It is not pleasing others or sugar coating anything neither kissing some body parts (as what was mentioned before). It is already said on the title of this thread: "an effort to bring peace between different faiths,beliefs and lifestyles".

**frabgas27** · 12-26-2016

Originally Posted by talibilm

Peace

A hadith had ordered Muslims to honor foreign emissaries (even from Kuffar lands)with gifts implying peace with All and there are incidents that Prophet

co operated with Meccan Kuffar in social welfare matters and verses like these should help us in a the right direction

Allah said 60:7 '' Perhaps Allah will put, between you and those to whom you have been enemies among them, affection. And Allah is competent, and Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

But when you bye bye them better leave them with these verses which was Mentioned to Byzantine by Prophet

( which is NOTHING but also mentioned in their books too )

Noble Quran 3:64'' Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's Will).

But we are being expelled from our lands, we are being expelled in our own lands by the same people that you want interfaith with. This deen isnt a deen of pleasing the kings. Even if we were to have a dialogue what will that achieve? Will that by any chance get rid of the suffering the ummah is enduring? While you are sitting there creaming interfaith your brothers, sisters are being murdered. And it wouldnt surprise me if you were to criticise the mujahideen with your interfaith buddies and condeming their actions and stating, "Oh no, you see these people dont represent islam in any way". How can you have the audacity to say that against the men that are fighting for this ummah, against the men that are fighting for allah and his word to be the highest. they are out there in the mountains fighting for the sake of allah why are you criticising them? Who are you really pleasing?

**Huzaifah ibn Adam** · 12-26-2016

Originally Posted by sister herb

I can´t agree with that:

This is the special. It´s called as the greater jihad, jihaad al-nafs (jihaad against the self). It´s much more than lesser jihad.

https://islamqa.info/en/10455

Did you read that link, sister?

Al-Munajjid clearly states, "This Hadeeth is not Saheeh (authentic)."

In fact, Imaam ibn Taymiyyah said that it is baseless (laa Asla Lahu).

**sister herb** · 12-26-2016

I always read all links I post.

**Eric H** · 12-27-2016

Greetings and peace be with you frabgas27;

Yemen,mali,afghanistan,syria,iraq,pakistan,somalia , palestine, burma? All these places muslims are being slaughtered, blown up to pieces. Most oppression, the muslims suffer. Does that not mean anything to you?

I am against all war, I did not like the war between Iraq and Iran, or the war when Iraq invaded Kuwait, one Muslim country against another. I was against Britain's involvement in Afghanistan and Iraq.

With all the bombs raining down on muslim lands and destruction that is left behind, leads to starvation,poverty and diseases in itself. So what is your point?

I am against all this destruction. My point is this, you seem to be blind to the atheist child starving to death, or the Hindu, Christian or Buddhist child starving to death. These are all children created by the same God you worship.

You seem to be blind to the meaning of justice, or do you think only Muslims should be entitled to justice?

My idea of justice is to help those starving to death, to give charity, there are no guns needed to save these lives. Justice must mean the same for people of all faiths and no faith, it must mean the same for every country in the world, We are all created by the same God.

Any solution that needs a gun, will just bring more injustice, the poor suffer the most. They say in many wars, as many as nine out of ten people killed are civilians. Anyone who picks up a gun, becomes like the people they hate and fear the most. We are either a part of the solution, or a part of the problem, there is no neutral ground.

This life is temporary, there can never be real justice in this world, only God can give real justice, and only in the hereafter.

May you, and those you love and care for be blessed, and may you bring blessings to others.

Eric