what is with the moral degeneracy trend growing in Europe?
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(Nov. 25) -- A British man was jailed Tuesday for raping two of his daughters and fathering nine children over 27 years, a case with echoes of Austria's Josef Fritzl.
The two daughters were made pregnant 19 times; there were nine births, five miscarriages and five terminations. Seven of the children are alive but suffer genetic deformities.
The father, who cannot be named for legal reasons banning the identification of his victims and the surviving children, pleaded guilty Tuesday at Sheffield Crown Court, northern England, and was sentenced to serve 25 life sentences to run concurrently.
The judge said the minimum term the 56-year-old rapist should serve in jail should be 19½ years.
South Yorkshire Police Chief Superintendent Simon Torr said, "The victims of these terrible crimes have asked me to state the following: 'His detention in prison brings us only the knowledge that he cannot physically touch us again. The suffering he has caused will continue for many years, and we must now concentrate our thoughts on finding the strength to rebuild our lives.' "
Sheffield, England: On Wednesday, British Prime Minister Gordon Brown vowed to find out how a man from Sheffield, above in 2002, repeatedly raped two daughters over 27 years, impregnated them 19 times and fathered nine children before he was stopped. The man, whose identity is not being released, was sentenced Tuesday to 25 concurrent life sentences.
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Speaking for the police, Torr added, "The main concern ... is for those who have been so badly affected: the victims who have suffered a terrible ordeal. We will continue to offer them our full support to try and help them get on with their lives.
"As far as the sentence goes, we are satisfied that this offender has received the strongest possible punishment for his heinous crimes. Now we need to ensure continuing support for those who have suffered as a result of his actions."
The daughters first told police about their ordeal in June, but the abuse dated to 1981.
It emerged that in 1998 one daughter rang Childline, a charity to help abused kids, and asked for assurances about being able to keep her children if she came forward. When Childline could not make that guarantee, the daughter did nothing more to raise her plight.
I have worked with other health professional and social workers for a long time, and I think the problem is at least partly that political correctness has swung too far.
Wonderful principles such as clients'/patients' rights and choice and confidentiality, which we all benefit from, fall short when those who are supposed to care for vulnerable people are a) too cruel and vicious to care and b) clever enough to conceal the evidence of their abuse.
Add to that health and social workers who are either too naive too know better or too scared to rock the boat, and legislations which make appropriate action more difficult, and you create the potential for such atrocities.
There is little known about this case so far, but in the case of baby P who died after months of horrendous abuse there is clear evidence of this.
Dr Sabah Al-Zayyat, the pediatrician who was the last person to see baby P only a couple of daysbefore his death, did not examine him properly because he 'seemed cranky' and thereby failed to spot injuries and take appropriate action which may have saved his life.
Social worker who visited found him covered in chocolate - which had been applied by his mother and her partner to hide bruises. 20 years ago social workers would have had the right and responsibility to clean such a child in order to carry out a proper examination. Today this would be frowned upon because it would potentially go against the families right to choice and privacy ...
In the light of what happened to this child we might all be outraged and criticise the professionals. But chances are they acted according the the system they work in.
The whole work culture needs shifting - and both the health and social services are huge organisations which are difficult to change in a hurry ...
Last edited by glo; 11-27-2008 at 10:01 PM.
Reason: typo
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
In the U.S there is what is called Tarasoff's Law..
Duty to warn/inform and protect.. you should google it!
there is no such a thing as Dr/Pt. confidentiality when clear harm has been done, or if a doctor suspects harm is going to be done.
which again leaves me bewildered, do you not have similar laws in England? or is it simple pure neglect on everyone's part? did the whole family live in a complete bubble?
very hard for me to imagine years, holidays, birthdays, neighbors, social workers, doctors visits and this sort of thing still going on for nearly three decades.. frankly something is extremely fishy about this case... and down right disgusting!
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I wouldn't be surprised if he does 5-10 years and with good behaviour (or some other stupid 'law') is released early and then becomes the new prime minister. Seriously I wouldn't be surprised.
There will never be peace in this world we all - Muslims and Non-Muslims - share until there is first justice. This man has ruined the lives of so many so badly and he gets 19 years in jail!.
I think the Austrian (Fritzl) guy got 15 years!. You've ruined someone's life and you get 15 years?. This is definately part of the reason why these crimes increase in number (and evil) in the future. People are just 'deadend' to the punishments. It is beyond a joke.
The pattern is clear - no one can deny this. Just give it a few years and we will probably hear about a man who rapes his daughter/s and then the grandchildren (or even great grandchildren). Or even 5 year olds killing others - like the Jammie Bulger case but just younger. Just give it a few years - don't be surprised. What a world we live in!.
Oh and to the poster above who suggested putting this guy in Gitmo. I think to stoop to that low level is clearly way, way beyond Islam. Islam calls to peace and justice. It doesn't prescribe torture to any human beings even if they murdered or did what this incestual monster did. It has its prescribed punishments. Gitmo has been doing, in some cases, arguably far worse than this man did to his daughters as this man's daughters did not commit suicide whereas in Gitmo some detainees have committed suicide due to the horrors of torture they underwent. Something drove them to that.
I think the real best thing we can all do (as Muslims) is pray for this man's and his family's guidance and leave the justice to Allah. A former paedophille convereted to Islam recently. The doors are open to all. Make du'a all those who read this as this man needs them.
what is with the moral degeneracy trend growing in Europe?
Skye You know well how muslims are hurt everytime when someone blames honour killing on your muslim culture. I think that You shouldnt make same mistake, You are too inteligent not to know that such things happen from Paris to Tokio, from Oslo to Johannesburg.
This country is dying because of a lack of men, not a lack of programs.
In the U.S there is what is called Tarasoff's Law..
Duty to warn/inform and protect.. you should google it!
there is no such a thing as Dr/Pt. confidentiality when clear harm has been done, or if a doctor suspects harm is going to be done.
Similar laws exists in the UK too, Skye.
But there is also a fear of litigations if professionals make the wrong decisions. If, for example, a child is removed from a family unfairly, then people are up in arms, the social worker in question get hauled over the coals, the story makes headlines etc, etc.
So health and social workers become cautious and perhaps hesitate to report concerns as soon as they should or could ...
On the other hand, procedures often take a very long time.
In the case of baby P, for example, child protection processes were in place ... but nothing happened quick enough!
I am not making excuses for my colleagues or condone their actions. I am sure mistakes were made!
I am just trying to explain how such thing can be allowed to carry on for so long - sometimes until it is too late.
Like I said, things have to change. Not just legislations, but peoples attitudes too. Hopefully they will ... but for some it is too late!
Peace
Peace glo
Here I stand.
I can do no other.
May God help me.
Amen.
Come, let us worship and bow down •
and kneel before the Lord our Maker
[Psalm 95]
Well, there is no fear of litigation here when it comes to that law as a health care professional is protected from liability -- very much like the 'Good Samaritan law-, which states that you are under no obligation to help someone on the street if you are a health care professional, but they would very much like you too, thus if you make a mistake you are not liable the courts throw the law suits out-- unless of course you were very grossly negligent but given that dermatologist and brain surgeons alike must be ACLS/BCLS certified they would like you to at least give life support!
cheers
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I believe he should be put to death.. and I am not sure what the jurisprudence stance is on this, but I am sure this is punishable by death-- I think most of you tend to think of this guy as human who can reason and rationalize but I see him as an animal who has no place in society, shouldn't be supported or felt sorry for by society...
you compare him as an Animal? I think animals are ten times better than this...this..thing!
27 years he ruins the lives of his own daughters and he only gets 25 (19½!)?
27 years = 25 years ? is this even logical
And as for the onewho fears standing in front of His Lord and restrainsthe soul from impure evil desires and lusts, verily, Paradise will be his abode [79:40-41]
I was gonna say, this kind of thing does not happen in Europe alone.
It's disgusting what he's done and yeah the punishment certainly doesn't fit the crime.
Also, what about in the case of Dave Pelzer? I know he wasn't abused in that manner, but the fact that his abuse went on for so long? And in America? So please don't say that it's occuring in Europe alone. It's probably that the case are uncovered better here? I don't know. The actions are sick regardless..
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