I will like to know why it's not acceptable for a muslim woman to marry a non-muslim when a man can marry a Christian or Jew woman.
I have herd the reason how the children of a Muslim must follow the teachings of Islam and since kids are known by the father and are likely to follow the father's religion therefore women can't marry a non-muslim man. I don't feel that is a good enough reasoning because what if the man says he will allow his children to be Muslim and the mother can teach the kids about religion. Plus today kids are known just as much by the mother as they are by the father. Also what if someone doesn't even want to have kids and some women actually can't have children as it is, so what about that?
format_quote Originally Posted by Scents of Jannah
Amongst others, one of the husband's right in Islam is to be obeyed by his wife. If a husband is therefore non muslim, he may insist his children are brought up as non-muslims. He may also insist you enjoin partners in Allah (naudhu billah) if his own belief depends on it. To cut it short as I'm in a rush, this is the tip of the iceberg and if this were allowed you can imagine the harm it would bring to the muslim society. But, there is more wisdom then we can see and is it wiser if we avoid questioning the wisdom of Allah subhana wa ta'ala so that we may do not incur sin but increase ourselves in piety.
As I said in my first post, what if the husband allows the wife to practice her religion as she pleases and also allow the children to be muslim. I pointed out another scenario where a woman might not be able to have kids or just might not want any kids, so how does this affect her. Also in Islam kids are taught that their mother should come first before anyone and the father comes second to the mother so the kids will be more obedient to the mom and her teachings. Also in the case where a man might work all day, the wife is with the kids, so therefore it causes her to have a greater influence on the children. Also in case of divorce, children are given in the care of the mom in Islam so, in that case the mom can teach the children what ever religion she wants. So if the husband is muslim but mom is not then she can start teaching the kids her religion and the father can't do anything about that.
in practice: yes. in reality... well... not so much when it comes to muslims
In reality yes as well. I am not naive to racism but there really isn't so much. I live in a city where there are really no muslims here and no south asian within an hour of where I live. Yet I have never faced anything harmful to my believes. My brother goes to a university where there is less than 10% Muslim population but he got a Mosque on campus which is paid for by the school for the maintenance and any other expenses. Also there is no church on campus.
I just ask for equality. I would also be against women getting better treatment than men because i don't find that to be fair.
Also i do understand that men and women are very different and have different roles which is proven by science it self but i still feel equality should be maintained when it comes to these social matters.
The problem is if Muslim women get married to a non-Muslim man there is no guarantee that she will be allowed to practice her religion properly. If a non-Muslim marries a Muslim man he has no choice but allow her to practice Judaism or Christianity.
That is totally a personal choice. No one can speak for another person and say what is right for an adult. For some it might be easier to do one thing but for another it could be easier to go another way. We are no one to judge.
Personal yes I agree. However if you're a Muslim...you should obey the laws of the Qur'an and the Hadiths.
Muslim women can go ahead and marry a non-Muslim if they want. But they will have to face the consequences just like a Muslim man marrying a non-Muslim.
Marriage is a contract, you can easily get what you want in writing as a promise that he will not stop his wife or kids from practicing her religion.
When the contract breaks? A contract does not guarantee anything. He can easily break the contract, get a divorce and file for child custody. He will be entitled to see the child during the week and he could then teach his religion.
Just like the arguments made that the man might force his wife to listen to her and follow her religion.
In Islam you cannot force your wife to follow Islam. Considering that she is a non-Muslim.
Well the man(even muslim) could be out working all day and his wife(Christian/Jew) could teach the kids what ever she wants and they will have a closer bond with their mother. Also Islam teaches us that your mother is above all and your father comes second. Now how can kids not listen to what their mother has to say or wants them to do because they must be obedient to her.
Yes but it is better to marry a Muslim man to ensure both spouses are raising ther child.
Ah sorry for the typoes :/
Last edited by GuestFellow; 08-28-2009 at 11:13 PM.
I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.
I don't see what mahr has got anything to do with what I said. You said "what if the man says he will allow his children to be Muslim.." To which I made the above reply. What I meant was, he may say these things before marriage to keep a girl interested (he may even be genuine cos he wants to please her in any way possible), but people change. After a few years of marriage of being used to being with her, he may show a different attitude. Also, just because he says he would allow her to be muslim - but to what extent would he actually allow her to practice?
Both mahr and the "nikah nama" as you mentioned earlier, are Islamic concepts. Why would a non-muslim feel obliged to follow them...?
You had said that what ever is said before marriage is all an illusion. Well that is why i brought up meher which is discussed before marriage and is taken into act. Yes nikah nama and Mahr are muslim concepts but you can have the man sign a paper/contract here called a prenuptial agreement. Which is actually just an English translation of a nikah nama and he will follow that.
The problem is if Muslim women get married to a non-Muslim married there is no guarantee that she will be allowed to practice her religion properly. If a non-Muslim marries a Muslim man he has no choice but allow her to practice Judaism or Christianity.
She can have a prenuptial agreement that he has to let her practice her religion.
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
When the contract breaks? A contract does not guarantee anything. He can easily break the contract, get a divorce and file for child custody. He will be entitled to see the child during the week and he could then teach his religion.
Again Islam teaches us that a mother is above all and the father comes second to the mom. So the kids will already be more obedient to the mother. After divorce in most western countries and always in Islam the kids are handed to the mother, so at that point the mom can teach the children what ever she wants and they will be more influenced by her than the father because they live with the mom. Also if the mom is Jew/Christian she can turn the kids against Islam after a divorce. It seems safer for the mom to be Muslim with a non-muslim husband, than a non muslim wife.
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
Yes but it is better to marry a Muslim man to ensure both spouses are raising ther child.
Yes of course. That is Ideal for every Muslim to marry a Muslim man.
There is no guarantee though! Don't you see that? If he refuses to follow, what are your options? Divorce? Or do you give up your faith?
There is a guarantee, if he doesn't follow the prenuptial agreement then he will either be fined or taken to jail for a violation of his contract. In a marriage where a the man is Muslim but wife is not can have similar problems. What if she continues to teach the children about other religions and takes the kids away from Islam and after divorce she will also get the kids. Also she can interfere in him practicing his religion as well and harass him about it.
There is no guarantee though! Don't you see that? If he refuses to follow, what are your options? Divorce? Or do you give up your faith?
I will also like to add to the last reply i wrote
What if a Muslim man turns bad and starts to abuse, and stop her from practicing her religion to. He might be a muslim but that doesn't mean he practices Islam. There is no guarantee there either.
sister the problems that comes along with marrying non muslims also is that they have no fear of god and no moral values especially the men.(not all but the majority) lets just say you marry a non muslim man and you start teaching the kids islam thats all very fine and good. he could turn around and say hold on i don't like this thing and i don't like that..i don't want my daughters wearing the veil.
then you will have to teach him also.. it could be that you will end having to give up all your time to him then the kids.. it would be alot of work for the wife and then at the end it could end up rejecting it all.. and then he will file divorce against you for the reason being hes not agreeing to your islamic teaching.. he could even end making lies against you to get custody of the kids... i am telling you thats what non muslims are like! but a muslim would never take his kids away from the mother because he fears Allah.
also if you just realise that there is more women accepting islam then men. men find it difficult giving up alot of things thats why..
if you love for your deen.. you will only want that man for his deen thats my motto
She can have a prenuptial agreement that he has to let her practice her religion.
An agreement does not guarantee anything. When setting up contract it is a agreement between two parties for a promise or set of promises. A promise can be broken...
Again Islam teaches us that a mother is above all and the father comes second to the mom. So the kids will already be more obedient to the mother.
They should be obedient both to the mother and the father.
After divorce in most western countries and always in Islam the kids are handed to the mother, so at that point the mom can teach the children what ever she wants and they will be more influenced by her than the father because they live with the mom. Also if the mom is Jew/Christian she can turn the kids against Islam after a divorce. It seems safer for the mom to be Muslim with a non-muslim husband, than a non muslim wife.
No it is risky in both ways. It is not always a child shall side with their mo,. There was a case where a Pakistani girl decided to live with her dad in Pakistan instead of her mom who was White British. I heard this on BBC news some years ago.
It is not just about the child but also the wife herself. She needs to convince the husband to believe in Islam. The is no guarantee he will be an understanding husband or that he will allow her to practice her religion in peace.
I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.
An agreement does not guarantee anything. When setting up contract it is a agreement between two parties for a promise or set of promises. A promise can be broken...
Well if you say that, then there are so many things that are all based on just agreements and promises in Islam. That point contradicts all that. Also if the contract is broken the husband will be fined or poisoned because of violation of the contract.
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
They should be obedient both to the mother and the father.
Yes they should, but Islam tells us that the mother comes first and is priority and the father is second to the mother. That is said in the quran and there is also the hadiths, "One day a man came to see the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon
him. It seemed that he was trying to solve something but couldn't quite
work it out. So he asked the Prophet. "Tell me, Oh Prophet!' I have many
relatives and many friends whom I love, and whom I wish to care for and
help. But I often find it difficult to decide which of them has the
greatest claim upon me? Which of them should come first?"
The Prophet replied immediately, "Your mother."
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
No it is risky in both ways. It is not always a child shall side with their mo,. There was a case where a Pakistani girl decided to live with her dad in Pakistan instead of her mom who was White British. I heard this on BBC news some years ago.
In Islam it is said that the mom should take care of the children and the father must pay child support.
format_quote Originally Posted by Guestfellow
It is not just about the child but also the wife herself. She needs to convince the husband to believe in Islam. The is no guarantee he will be an understanding husband or that he will allow her to practice her religion in peace.
The same risk is there for any type of marriage. A Muslim man who isn't practicing might do the same. Just because the person believes in prophet Muhammad(PBUH) doesn't make him a better person. That person could be a liar, cheater, abuse his wife, not let her practice, have no respect for her and just be a bad person. Now on the other hand there could be a man who believes in god, the last day and all other prophets but our prophet Muhammad but he could be a very generous, loyal, trust worthy, good husband who meets all her needs and allows her to practice as she pleases.
sister the problems that comes along with marrying non muslims also is that they have no fear of god and no moral values especially the men.(not all but the majority) lets just say you marry a non muslim man and you start teaching the kids islam thats all very fine and good. he could turn around and say hold on i don't like this thing and i don't like that..i don't want my daughters wearing the veil.
then you will have to teach him also.. it could be that you will end having to give up all your time to him then the kids.. it would be alot of work for the wife and then at the end it could end up rejecting it all.. and then he will file divorce against you for the reason being hes not agreeing to your islamic teaching.. he could even end making lies against you to get custody of the kids... i am telling you thats what non muslims are like! but a muslim would never take his kids away from the mother because he fears Allah.
also if you just realise that there is more women accepting islam then men. men find it difficult giving up alot of things thats why..
if you love for your deen.. you will only want that man for his deen thats my motto
I am sorry you feel that way sister. I have lived with non-muslims all my life and they have proved to be closer to Islam than a lot of our muslim brothers. They are honest, loyal, respect their wife, give her all she pleases, meet their duties as husbands, take care of the poor, volunteer their time, don't speak ill of others, don't cheat anyone and have many other good qualities. The town i grew up in is very conservative though and more than other but it still prove that they are all good people, they even dress modestly, don't consume alcohol, are respectful and keep the boundaries between male and female. Now i have met some Muslims in Chicago, Detroit, Texas, Canada, Bosnia, Pakistan and few other places, who are all out to get each other, talk behind people's back, wish bad upon others, cheat, lie, steal, wear immodest clothing, disrespect people, don't pray, don't fast, drink, do many other drugs, have premarital sex, beat their wife, don't donate to the poor and many other sins and have many other bad characteristics. Now how does this person prove to be more eligible than the first. Only because they believe in one more important prophet than the other?
I am sorry you feel that way sister. I have lived with non-muslims all my life and they have proved to be closer to Islam than a lot of our muslim brothers. They are honest, loyal, respect their wife, give her all she pleases, meet their duties as husbands, take care of the poor, volunteer their time, don't speak ill of others, don't cheat anyone and have many other good qualities. The town i grew up in is very conservative though and more than other but it still prove that they are all good people, they even dress modestly, don't consume alcohol, are respectful and keep the boundaries between male and female. Now i have met some Muslims in Chicago, Detroit, Texas, Canada, Bosnia, Pakistan and few other places, who are all out to get each other, talk behind people's back, wish bad upon others, cheat, lie, steal, wear immodest clothing, disrespect people, don't pray, don't fast, drink, do many other drugs, have premarital sex, beat their wife, don't donate to the poor and many other sins and have many other bad characteristics. Now how does this person prove to be more eligible than the first. Only because they believe in one more important prophet than the other?
yes i know sis what your saying like i am a revert and my older brother dose not drink alhamdulilah he was doing body building thats why he didnt drink but then when he finished the body building he never went back to the alcohol which is good and he don't mess around with girls but the only thing is he totally rejects islam sis he would be willing to marry a muslim girl but he would not revert so you see its not easy for a man.. i understand where your coming from.. i know alot of muslims are doing wrong and its hard to find a good one. but at the end we have to follow the teachings of our beloved prophet mohammad pbuh because anyone who follows the prophet pbuh Allah will love them and give them everything in this life! mabe you could do dawah around your town and see what happens then
Just curious, doesn't the fact that they're uncircumsized make you sick? that's abit personal I know, but that puts alot of women off and the fact it's haraam to marry them.
there is not much evidence from the qur'an & sunnah against it, true, but most scholars say it's forbidden for very good reasons.
also, you're strongly implying there are no good muslim men? this is what I keep hearing from most women who hold your view unfortunately, there is in fact no reason other than this that poeple use to justify it as far as I know.
religion is not an easily agreed upon matter, and if you care about your religion you will be hard pressed to practice it at all if married to a non Muslim.
in the haze of wishful thinking you have created you miss the entire point.
Now how does this person prove to be more eligible than the first. Only because they believe in one more important prophet than the other?
ONLY?!
Only? Only? Sister, seriously... repeat that to yourself! You're treading on dangerous ground! The Shahaadataan (Laa ilaaha ilAllaah, Muhammad RasoolAllaah) are the foundations of our religion, both of which the people of the book disbelieve in! These people will be doomed to Hellfire, for eternity, if they do not accept Prophet Muhammad SalAllaahu 'Alayhi wa sallam as the final Messenger, and their deeds, including the ones you mentioned, WILL ALL BE IN VAIN. Laa hawla wa laa quwata illa billaah!
I hope you now understand the severity of this matter.
I am sorry you feel that way sister. I have lived with non-muslims all my life and they have proved to be closer to Islam than a lot of our muslim brothers. They are honest, loyal, respect their wife, give her all she pleases, meet their duties as husbands, take care of the poor, volunteer their time, don't speak ill of others, don't cheat anyone and have many other good qualities. The town i grew up in is very conservative though and more than other but it still prove that they are all good people, they even dress modestly, don't consume alcohol, are respectful and keep the boundaries between male and female. Now i have met some Muslims in Chicago, Detroit, Texas, Canada, Bosnia, Pakistan and few other places, who are all out to get each other, talk behind people's back, wish bad upon others, cheat, lie, steal, wear immodest clothing, disrespect people, don't pray, don't fast, drink, do many other drugs, have premarital sex, beat their wife, don't donate to the poor and many other sins and have many other bad characteristics. Now how does this person prove to be more eligible than the first. Only because they believe in one more important prophet than the other?
That is a huge generalisation. Not all Muslim men are like that. There are good and bad people in all groups. It does not justify going against Allah commands.
Prophet Muhammad {PBUH} Is extremely important, I cannot even stress how important the prophet is.... o__o
format_quote Originally Posted by ieshia
Well if you say that, then there are so many things that are all based on just agreements and promises in Islam.
Specifically?
That point contradicts all that. Also if the contract is broken the husband will be fined or poisoned because of violation of the contract.
Most contracts can be enforced through the courts depending on the circumstances. You mean damages {compensation}.
My point never contradicted anything.
Yes they should, but Islam tells us that the mother comes first and is priority and the father is second to the mother. That is said in the quran and there is also the hadiths, "One day a man came to see the Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon
him. It seemed that he was trying to solve something but couldn't quite
work it out. So he asked the Prophet. "Tell me, Oh Prophet!' I have many
relatives and many friends whom I love, and whom I wish to care for and
help. But I often find it difficult to decide which of them has the
greatest claim upon me? Which of them should come first?"
The Prophet replied immediately, "Your mother."
Oh I see in that aspect. Yes I agree.
In Islam it is said that the mom should take care of the children and the father must pay child support.
Yes financially the father must provide basic necessities for the child. However even if the couples are divorced, the father pays child support he is still entitled to see his child on a weekly basis. The wife never likes that. Some go as far as getting a false restraining order.
The same risk is there for any type of marriage.
Never said there wasn't. By simply getting married to a non-Muslim you're increasing the risks. It is a burden and Allah has removed this burden for the women and commanded Muslim women cannot get married to a non-Muslim man...it is as simple as that.
A Muslim man who isn't practicing might do the same. Just because the person believes in prophet Muhammad(PBUH) doesn't make him a better person.That person could be a liar, cheater, abuse his wife, not let her practice, have no respect for her and just be a bad person. Now on the other hand there could be a man who believes in god, the last day and all other prophets but our prophet Muhammad but he could be a very generous, loyal, trust worthy, good husband who meets all her needs and allows her to practice as she pleases.
I never said a Muslim believing in Prophet Muhammad {PBUH} would make him a good person. Yes indeed there are non-Muslim men who are good too however that person may not be familiar with your practices, may not hold the same respect for our prophet and so on. There are good Muslim men out there too.
I was looking at myself talking to myself and I realized this conversation...I was having with myself looking at myself was a conversation with myself that I needed to have with myself.
I am sorry you feel that way sister. I have lived with non-muslims all my life and they have proved to be closer to Islam than a lot of our muslim brothers. They are honest, loyal, respect their wife, give her all she pleases, meet their duties as husbands, take care of the poor, volunteer their time, don't speak ill of others, don't cheat anyone and have many other good qualities. The town i grew up in is very conservative though and more than other but it still prove that they are all good people, they even dress modestly, don't consume alcohol, are respectful and keep the boundaries between male and female. Now i have met some Muslims in Chicago, Detroit, Texas, Canada, Bosnia, Pakistan and few other places, who are all out to get each other, talk behind people's back, wish bad upon others, cheat, lie, steal, wear immodest clothing, disrespect people, don't pray, don't fast, drink, do many other drugs, have premarital sex, beat their wife, don't donate to the poor and many other sins and have many other bad characteristics. Now how does this person prove to be more eligible than the first. Only because they believe in one more important prophet than the other?
ieshia,
What you said is incorrect. Obviously, you haven't see a big picture yet. Sorry to tell you, I have seen alot of Muslims throughout my life who are very caring, values, respect, equal - compared to millions Non-Muslims which are worst people.
sister the problems that comes along with marrying non muslims also is that they have no fear of god and no moral values especially the men.(not all but the majority) lets just say you marry a non muslim man and you start teaching the kids islam thats all very fine and good. he could turn around and say hold on i don't like this thing and i don't like that..i don't want my daughters wearing the veil.
then you will have to teach him also.. it could be that you will end having to give up all your time to him then the kids.. it would be alot of work for the wife and then at the end it could end up rejecting it all.. and then he will file divorce against you for the reason being hes not agreeing to your islamic teaching.. he could even end making lies against you to get custody of the kids... i am telling you thats what non muslims are like! but a muslim would never take his kids away from the mother because he fears Allah. --correct, how come mother take away kid from his devot father, I myself don't understand?
also if you just realise that there is more women accepting islam then men. men find it difficult giving up alot of things thats why..
if you love for your deen.. you will only want that man for his deen thats my motto
From my understanding and experiences with 'Non-Muslim who became Muslim,' I don't recommend for brothers and sisters to marry Non-Muslim man or woman. No. It is very very burden, not-easy responsiblities, and painful. It is due to different cultures, families, pressures, and issues. Please see cat eyes' comments, which is true.
Marrying Muslim to true believer Muslim is better. That's what I suggest and find a true Muslimah than false believer.
I would like to add my two cents as someone who basically cannot, for some reason, get married. It really grinds my gears to hear sisters (and brothers, for that matter as well) disparage muslims of the opposite gender and even go so far as to marry non-muslims. Not only are you putting the souls of you future children in peril but you are seriously affecting you iman. In the case of women, you are making yourself a fasiqah as well.
So please stop it with the muslim male bashing please. Good muslim men are out there and I doubt you are even looking.
Moreover, it is INSULTING to hear a muslimah say that non-muslim men are closer to islam than muslim men. If they don't believe in the shahadatain then there is no way they are closer. This is pure baatil.
Sura 2 - Al-Baqara (MADINA) : Verse 221
Wed not idolatresses till they believe; for lo! a believing bondwoman is better than an idolatress though she please you; and give not your daughters in marriage to idolaters till they believe, for lo! a believing slave is better than an idolater though he please you. These invite unto the Fire, and Allah inviteth unto the Garden, and unto forgiveness by His grace, and expoundeth His revelations to mankind that haply they may remember.
From Pitchkall's translation.Simply said its prohibited for men to believe non Muslims too.men are allowed to marry people of book (jews and christians).Frankly how many people of book whom you know believe in one god and Isa or Ibrahim (pbut) as God's messengers ?
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he would be willing to marry a muslim girl but he would not revert so you see its not easy for a man.. i understand where your coming from.. i know alot of muslims are doing wrong and its hard to find a good one. but at the end we have to follow the teachings of our beloved prophet mohammad pbuh because anyone who follows the prophet pbuh Allah will love them and give them everything in this life! mabe you could do dawah around your town and see what happens then
ieshia,
It is due to different cultures, families, pressures, and issues. Please see cat eyes' comments, which is true. 
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