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found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

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    found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places (OP)


    ‘Gay marriage’ and homosexuality: Some medical comments

    JOHN SHEA, M.D., JOHN WILSON, M.D., ET. AL. The media portrays the homosexual lifestyle and relationships as happy, healthy and stable. However, the homosexual lifestyle is associated with a large number of very serious physical and emotional health consequences. In addition, many 'committed' homosexual relationships only last a few years raising doubts about whether children raised in same-sex households are being raised in a protective environment.

    wwwislamicboardcom - found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places wwwislamicboardcom - found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places Notice to Reader: "The Boards of both CERC Canada and CERC USA are aware that the topic of homosexuality is a controversial one that deeply affects the personal lives of many North Americans. Both Boards strongly reiterate the Catechism's teaching that people who self-identify as gays and lesbians must be treated with 'respect, compassion, and sensitivity' (CCC #2358). The Boards also support the Church's right to speak to aspects of this issue in accordance with her own self-understanding. Articles in this section have been chosen to cast light on how the teachings of the Church intersect with the various social, moral, and legal developments in secular society. CERC will not publish articles which, in the opinion of the editor, expose gays and lesbians to hatred or intolerance."



    wedding2 - found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all placesDespite the impression given by the media, the actual number of homosexuals is quite small. Essentially all surveys show the number of homosexuals to be only 1-3% of the population. The number of homosexuals living in 'common law partnerships' is even less, only 0.5% of all couples. This contrasts with 70% of all households with a married couple. The pressure for introducing same-sex marriages comes from a very small section of society.
    • According to Statistics Canada, 1.3% of men and 0.7% of women considered themselves to be homosexual.

    • Recent studies in many different countries show that the prevalence of homosexuality is less than 3% of the population: In a US study, the prevalence of homosexuality was estimated to be 2.1% of men and 1.5% of women. (Gilman SE. Am J Public Health. 2001; 91: 933-9.) Another US study estimated the prevalence of the adult lesbian population to be 1.87% (Aaron DJ et al. J Epidemiol Community Health. 2003; 57: 207-9.) In a recent British survey, 2.8% of men were classified as homosexuals (Mercer CH et al. AIDS. 2004; 18: 1453-8). In a recent Dutch study 2.8% of men and 1.4% women had had same-sex partners. (Sandfort TG et al. Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2001; 58 :85-91.) In a New Zealand study, 2.8% of young adults were classified as homosexual or bisexual. (Fergusson DM et al. Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1999; 56: 876-80)

    • In 2001, there were just over 8.3 million families in Canada, of which nearly 6 million (70%) were married couples and 1.1 million common-law couples. The 2001 Census was the first to provide data on same-sex partnerships. A total of 34,200 couples (or 0.5% of all couples) identified themselves as same-sex common-law couples. (www.statcan.ca/Daily/ English/021022/d021022a.htm)

    wwwislamicboardcom - found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places
    2. Health risks of the homosexual lifestyle.
    The media portrays the homosexual lifestyle and relationships as happy, healthy and stable. However, the homosexual lifestyle is associated with a large number of very serious physical and emotional health consequences. Many 'committed' homosexual relationships only last a few years. This raises doubts as to whether children raised in same-sex households are being raised in a protective environment.
    A. There are very high rates of sexual promiscuity among the homosexual population with short duration of even 'committed' relationships.

    • A study of homosexual men shows that more than 75% of homosexual men admitted to having sex with more than 100 different males in their lifetime: approximately 15% claimed to have had 100-249 sex partners, 17% claimed 250-499, 15% claimed 500-999 and 28% claimed more than 1,000 lifetime sexual partners. (Bell AP, Weinberg MS. Homosexualities. New York 1978).

    • Promiscuity among lesbian women is less extreme, but is still higher than among heterosexual women. Many 'lesbian' women also have sex with men. Lesbian women were more than 4 times as likely to have had more than 50 lifetime male partners than heterosexual women. (Fethers K et al. Sexually transmitted infections and risk behaviours in women who have sex with women. Sexually Transmitted Infections 2000; 76: 345-9.)

    • Far higher rates of promiscuity are observed even within 'committed' gay relationships than in heterosexual marriage: In Holland, male homosexual relationships last, on average, 1.5 years, and gay men have an average of eight partners a year outside of their supposedly “committed” relationships. (Xiridou M, et al. The contribution of steady and casual partnerships to the incidence of HIV infection among homosexual men in Amsterdam. AIDS. 2003; 17: 1029-38.) Gay men have sex with someone other than their primary partner in 66% of relationships within the first year, rising to 90% of relationships after five years. (Harry J. Gay Couples. New York. 1984)

    • In an online survey among nearly 8,000 homosexuals, 71% of same-sex relationships lasted less than eight years. Only 9% of all same-sex relationships lasted longer than 16 years. (2003-2004 Gay & Lesbian Consumer Online Census; www.glcensus.org)

    • The high rates of promiscuity are not surprising: Gay authors admit that 'gay liberation was founded … on a sexual brotherhood of promiscuity.' (Rotello G. Sexual Ecology. New York 1998)

    B. Among homosexuals, highly risky sexual practices such as anal sex are very common.

    • The majority of homosexual men (60%) engage in anal sex, frequently without condom and even, if they know that they are HIV positive. (Mercer CH et al. Increasing prevalence of male homosexual partnerships and practices in Britain 1990-2000. AIDS. 2004; 18: 1453-8) As a result, a large number of diseases are associated with anal intercourse, many of which are rare or even unknown in the heterosexual population such as: anal cancer, Chlamydia trachomatis, Cryptosporidium, Giardia lamblia, Herpes simplex virus, HIV, Human papilloma virus, Isospora belli, Microsporidia, Gonorrhoea, Syphilis, Hepatitis B and C and others. (www.netdoctor.co.uk; www.gayhealthchannel.com

    • There is a significant increase in the risk of contracting HIV when engaging in anal sex. Young homosexual men aged 15-22, who ever had anal sex had a fivefold increased risk of contracting HIV than those who never engaged in anal sex. (Valleroy L, et al. HIV prevalence and associated risks in young men who have sex with men. JAMA. 2000; 284: 198-204.)

    • The term 'barebacking' refers to intentional unsafe anal sex. In a study of HIV-positive gay men, the majority of participants (84%) reported engaging in barebacking in the past three months, and 43% of the men reported recent bareback sex with a partner who most likely is not infected with HIV, therefore putting another man at risk of contracting HIV. (Halkitis PN. Intentional unsafe sex (barebacking) among HIV-positive gay men who seek sexual partners on the Internet. AIDS Care. 2003; 15: 367-78.)

    • While many homosexuals are aware of HIV risk, a large number are unaware of the increased risk of contracting non-HIV STDs, many of which have serious complications or may not be curable. (K-Y lubricant and the National Lesbian and Gay Health Association survey)

    • While 'always' condom use reduces the risk of contracting HIV by about 85%, Condoms, even when used 100% of the time, fail to give adequate levels of protection against many non-HIV STDs such as Syphilis, Gonorrhoea, Chlamydia, Herpes, Genital Warts and others. The only safe sex is, apart from abstinence, mutual monogamy with an uninfected partner. (Sex, Condoms, and STDs: What We Now Know. Medical Institute for Sexual Health. 2002)

    C. Homosexuals have very high rates of sexually transmitted infections such as HIV which pose a major burden to the health service.

    • Over 70% of all AIDS diagnoses in Canada in adults over the age of 15 up to June 2004 were in homosexual men (13,019 out of 19,238). 60% of all positive HIV tests are found in homosexual men. This contrasts with just over 15% of all positive HIV tests which are due to heterosexual contact. (Public Health Agency of Canada. HIV and AIDS in Canada. November 2004).

    • The recently observed dramatic increases in syphilis in many large cities such as Los Angeles, San Francisco, but also in London and Manchester, UK are in the majority observed in homosexual men. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). Trends in primary and secondary syphilis and HIV infections in men who have sex with men. MMWR 2004; 53: 575-8. and Nicoll A. Are trends in HIV, gonorrhoea, and syphilis worsening in western Europe? BMJ 2002; 324:1324-7.)

    D. There are increased rates of mental ill health among the homosexual population compared to the general population. Many studies show much higher rates of psychiatric illness, such as depression, suicide attempts and drug abuse among homosexuals then among the general population. The homosexual lifestyle is associated with a shortened life expectancy of up to 20 years.

    • In a New Zealand study, data were gathered on a range of psychiatric disorders among gay, lesbian, and bisexual young people. At the age of 21, homosexuals/bisexuals were at fourfold increased risks of major depression and conduct disorder, fivefold increased risk of nicotine dependence, twofold increased risk of other substance misuse or addiction and six times more likely to have attempted suicide. (Fergusson DM et al. Is sexual orientation related to mental health problems and suicidality in young people? Arch Gen Psychiatry. 1999; 56: 876-80.)

    • In a recent US study of the mental health of homosexuals, it was found that gay/bisexual men had a more than 3-fold increased risk of major depression and a five-fold increased risk of panic disorder. They were three times as likely to rate their mental health as only 'fair' or 'poor' and to experience high levels of distress. Gay/bisexual women had a nearly four-fold increased risk of general anxiety disorder and both groups were more than three times as likely than the general population to require treatment in a mental health setting. (Cochran S. et al. Prevalence of mental disorders, psychological distress, and mental health services use among lesbian, gay, and bisexual adults in the United States. J Consult Clin Psychol. 2003; 71 :53-61.)

    • It is claimed, that the high rates of mental illness among homosexuals are the result of 'homophobia'. However, even in the Netherlands, which has been far more tolerant to same-sex relationships and which has recently legalised same-sex marriages, high levels of psychiatric illness, including major depression, bipolar disorder ('manic depression'), agoraphobia, obsessive compulsive disorder and drug addiction are found. (Sandfort TG, et al. Same-sex sexual behavior and psychiatric disorders: findings from the Netherlands Mental Health Survey and Incidence Study (NEMESIS). Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2001; 58 :85-91.)

    • Furthermore, if 'homophobia' and prejudices were the cause of the high rates of psychiatric disorders and suicide attempts among homosexuals, one would similarly expect to find higher rates of suicide attempts and suicide among ethnic minorities exposed to racism. However, this is not usually the case.

    • In a Vancouver study, life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality were to continue, it is estimated that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday. (Hogg RS et al. Modelling the impact of HIV disease on mortality in gay and bisexual men. International Journal of Epidemiology.1997; 26:657-61)

    wwwislamicboardcom - found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places
    3. Homosexuality and pedophilia.
    Any attempts to legalise gay marriage should be aware of the link between homosexuality and pedophilia. While the majority of homosexuals are not involved in pedophilia, it is of grave concern that there is a disproportionately greater number of homosexuals among pedophiles and an overlap between the gay movement and the movement to make pedophilia acceptable.

    • One well known historic example on the link between homosexuality and pedophilia is found in ancient Greece. Greek mythology is saturated with stories of pedophilia and ancient Greek literature praises pedophilia. The age group of boys that were used for 'sexual pleasure' was probably in the range of 12-17. Male prostitution was very common with brothels in which boys and young men were available. There is evidence for an extensive trade in boys. (Churchill W. Homosexual Behavior among Males. Hawthorn. New York. 1967)

    • There are links between pedophilia and homosexuality. The political scientist Prof. Mirkin wrote in a paper that: 'pedophile organizations were originally a part of the gay/lesbian coalition…' (Mirkin H. The pattern of sexual politics: feminism, homosexuality and pedophilia. Journal of Homosexuality 1999; 37: 1-24.). There is an overlap between the 'gay movement' and the movement to make pedophilia acceptable through organisations such as the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA), as admitted by David Thorstad, Co-founder of NAMBLA writing in the Journal of Homosexuality. (Thorstad D. Man/boy love and the American gay movement. Journal of Homosexuality. 1990; 20 : 251-74)

    • The number of homosexuals in essentially all surveys is less than 3%. (Statistics Canada found only 1% of the population who described themselves as homosexual.) However, the percentage of homosexuals among pedophiles is 25%. (Blanchard R et al. Fraternal birth order and sexual orientation in pedophiles. Archives of Sexual Behavior 2000; 29: 463-78.) Therefore, the prevalence of pedophilia among homosexuals is about 10-25 times higher than one would expect if the proportion of pedophiles were evenly distributed within the (hetero- and homosexual) populations.

    wwwislamicboardcom - found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places
    4. 'Gay marriage'.
    Gay activists claim that there is no difference between children raised in a homosexual as opposed to a heterosexual household. However, essentially all studies that show that there is no difference have been criticised because of poor research quality. Despite the shortcomings, the studies seem to suggest that children raised in same-sex parents may be more sexually promiscuous and more likely to become homosexuals.

    • In a review of all the studies that purport to find no difference between children raised in families by same-sex parents and parents of different sex, major methodological flaws have been noted. For example, the studies have very small sample sizes, biased sample selection, or lack of control groups. (P. Morgan, Children as Trophies? Christian Institute. Newcastle upon Tyne, 2002)

    • Despite the limitations of the studies of same-sex parenting some differences are found. Children raised in same-sex parents are more likely to become sexually promiscuous and are more likely to become homosexual themselves. (Riggs SC. Coparent or Second-Parent Adoption by Same-Sex Parents. (letter) Pediatrics 2002; 109: 1193-4.)

    • However, the main concern remains the inherent instability of same-sex marriages. In the above mentioned Dutch survey, the average length of a 'committed' homosexual partnership was only 1.5 years. In the mentioned survey of nearly 8,000 gays, 71% of relationships did not last 8 years. Furthermore, violence among homosexual partnerships is two to three times as common as in heterosexual relationships. Such an environment does not provide the stability required for raising children. Former homosexual Stephen Bennett who is married to his wife and has two children states: 'Granting homosexuals the right to marry or adopt children is deliberately creating dysfunctional families.'

    wwwislamicboardcom - found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places
    5. Biological evidence regarding gender development.
    Despite all the impressions given by the media, homosexuality is neither an entirely innate condition nor is it unchangeable. The so-called 'gay gene' has never been found. There are studies that show it is possible to change sexual orientation from predominantly homosexual to predominantly heterosexual orientation.

    • A recent review by authors sympathetic to the gay movement shows clearly that homosexual development cannot be only determined by genes. Evidence from biology shows clearly that gays are not simply born that way. Environmental influences play a significant role in the development of gender identity and sexual behavior. (Bailey JM. "Biological perspectives on sexual orientation". In: Garnets LD and Kimmel DC: Psychological perspectives on lesbian, gay, and bisexual experiences. Columbia University Press, New York. 2003)

    • There is no convincing evidence for a 'gay gene'. Indeed, if there were a 'gay gene' those who carry it would probably be at a disadvantage in the natural selection process of evolution:' If there was a 'gay gene' this gene would cause a significant problem: homosexuality is associated with low fertility, indeed if a homosexual has only sex with same-sex persons he will have no offspring.' (Bailey JM. Biological perspectives on sexual orientation. 2003)

    • One way of finding out whether a condition is genetically determined is to examine the behavior of identical twins (who have the same genetic material) and comparing them with non-identical twins. It is assumed, that twins grow up in the same environment. There have been several studies investigating whether the identical twin brothers of homosexual men are also homosexuals. Concordance (both identical twins being homosexual) was found in only 25-50% of identical twin pairs. 'Genes' therefore cannot entirely explain homosexual orientation and behaviour. (Pillard RC and Weinrich JD. Evidence of familial nature of male homosexuality. Archives of General Psychiatry. 1986: 42; 808-12. King M and McDonald E. Homosexuals who are twins. A study of 46 probands. British Journal of Psychiatry. 1992; 160: 407-9.)

    • Recently, a study was published by Professor Spitzer, a prominent psychiatrist. He is viewed as a historic champion of gay activism by playing a key role in removing homosexuality from the psychiatric manual of mental disorders in 1973. In his study, he examined whether a predominantly homosexual orientation will, in some individuals, respond to therapy. He examined 200 respondents of both genders who reported changes from homosexual to heterosexual orientation lasting 5 years or more. He writes: 'Although initially skeptical, in the course of the study, the author became convinced of the possibility of change in some gay men and lesbians.' Although examples of "complete" change in orientation were not common, the majority of participants did report change from a predominantly or exclusively homosexual orientation before therapy to a predominantly or exclusively heterosexual orientation in the past year as a result of reparative therapy. These results would seem to contradict the position statements of the major mental health organizations in the United States, which claim there is no scientific basis for believing psychotherapy effective in addressing same-sex attraction. (Spitzer RL. Can some gay men and lesbians change their sexual orientation? 200 participants reporting a change from homosexual to heterosexual orientation. Arch Sex Behav. 2003; 32: 403-17; discussion 419-72. – further evidence see www.narth.com)

    wwwislamicboardcom - found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places
    6. Benefits of traditional marriage.
    There are significant benefits from (heterosexual) marriage for individual and society. Heterosexually married couples are, on average, healthier, have fewer psychological problems and live longer than cohabiting or single individuals. Government policy therefore should be to support and strengthen heterosexual marriage.

    • In reviews by Professor Oswald, Professor of Economics at Warwick University, UK it was found that marriage reduces mortality. The excess mortality of men who are not married is similar to the excess mortality by smoking. Marriage has a much more important effect on longevity than income does. For men, the effect is positive and substantial. It almost exactly offsets the large (negative) consequences of smoking. For women, the effect is approximately half the size of the smoking effect.

    • Marriage is associated with greater happiness, less depression, less alcohol abuse and less smoking. Marriage gives a beneficial effect in terms of reducing alcohol abuse especially for men and reducing depression for both men and women.

    • Health benefits of marriage appear to be limited to marriage. Cohabitation does not confer the same degree of benefit than marriage. Formal marriage itself seems to matter. In the few studies that compare marriage and cohabitation, the results tend to show a beneficial effect from being married. (Gardner J, Oswald A, Is it Money or Marriage that Keeps People Alive? August 2002. Wilson CM and Oswald AJ: How Does Marriage Affect Physical and Psychological Health? A Survey of the Longitudinal Evidence. (January 2002; both papers available on Prof Oswald's website – see 'further reading')

    wwwislamicboardcom - found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places
    7. Adverse effects of family breakdown.
    There is a wealth of evidence linking family breakdown with many adverse health outcomes for children and society as a whole. Government policy therefore should be to strengthen the marriage-based family of husband and wife. 'Gay marriages', with their inherent instability, will contribute to the many adverse effects family breakdown has on children and on society as a whole.

    • At the root of many of the problems we see in children and young adults — such as emotional and behavioral difficulties, poor school performance, substance misuse, precocious teenage sexuality including teenage pregnancy and juvenile delinquency — is the dramatic increase in family breakup and 'relationship turnover' of parents, adversely affecting their children (For an overview see: Rebecca O'Neill. Experiments in living. CIVITAS. 2002)

    • As a result of family breakdown, children have on average more ill health including higher mortality, emotional problems (including a higher suicide rate).

    • Children from broken families have poorer school performance including poorer performance in maths, reading and writing.

    • Children from broken families are more likely to live in poverty. As a result of family breakdown, many single parent families live in poverty.

    • Children from broken families are also more likely to have problems with substance misuse and poor sexual health including teenage pregnancy.

    • Furthermore, children from broken homes are more likely to be engaging in criminal activity and are disproportionally over-represented in the prison population.

    • In a study of more than 170 US cities, a clear link between divorce rate and crime was found. Low rates of divorce were associated with reduced crime rates. (Sampson RJ, Crime in Cities. Tonry & Morris eds., Crime and Justice, Chicago 1992)

    wwwislamicboardcom - found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places
    Further reading:
    Health risks of gay sex Effects of family breakdown on children and society by CIVITAS, London, UK
    Marriage research (by Prof Andrew Oswald)
    Therapy of homosexual orientation: www.narth.com (National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality).
    wwwislamicboardcom - found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places
    ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
    John Shea, M.D., John Wilson, M.D. et.al. "'Gay marriage' and homosexuality: some medical comments." Lifesite (February, 2005).
    Originally published to Lifesite.
    THE AUTHORS
    John Shea, MD, FRCP (C), Radiologist; John K. Wilson MD, FRCP (C), Cardiologist; Paul Ranalli MD, FRCP (C), Neurologist; Christina Paulaitis MD, CCFP, Family Physician; Luigi Castagna MD, FRCP (C), Paediatric Neurologist; Hans-Christian Raabe MD, MRCP MRCGP Internist; W. André Lafrance MD, FRCP (C), Dermatologist.
    http://www.catholiceducation.org/art...ty/ho0095.html
    found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

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    format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme View Post
    Yes, of course of that, although with your constant hostility of Christians, Jews, liberals, Americans, Brits and the like, it wouldn't surprise me if you did *dislike* homosexuals.

    Homosexuality is unnatural, but then so is flying in planes, driving and even using the internet! If you want 'natural' then hey, let's all run around stark naked with wooden spears hunting elephants and then retiring to the fire in the cave whilst having relations with our cousins and regularly fighting the other alpha male caveman of the tribe!
    but when your doing all those things as you say like using internet etc, your not putting yourself in danger of getting diseases and putting others at risk? btw it aint down right dirty and disgusting either
    found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    ae8iug 1 - found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places


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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    format_quote Originally Posted by Seeker1066 View Post
    It is made up nonsense. It is demeaning to those with real Phobias. Homosexuality is wrong. Truth is truth even if you try to pretend otherwise.
    Let's not get worked up about the semantics of 'homophobia'- it exists whether you call it discrimination, bigotry or ignorance.

    but when your doing all those things as you say like using internet etc, your not putting yourself in danger of getting diseases and putting others at risk? btw it aint down right dirty and disgusting either
    When you use the internet you put yourself at risk of viruses or trojans, when you fly or drive you are at risk of a crash or even a terrorist attack.

    I agree homosexuality is repulsive, but then just because I'm indifferent to something, it does not turn me into a bigot who hates a group of people or their legal sexual preferences that they have no ability to patrol.
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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    format_quote Originally Posted by Skavau View Post
    I think you'll find I wasn't comparing religion with anything, only 'phobias' in the context of disagreeing with world views, or beliefs. The reality is that some people against homosexuality are also homophobic and some people against Islam are Islamaphobic. Phobia has to do with irrational fear. If you have irrational concerns about either Islam or homosexuality and actually feel irrationaly concerned or scared when in contact with either a Muslim or a homosexual then you might, just perhaps have phobia.
    I know what a phobia is, we have already defined it..
    we are not here passing judgment nor are we 'afraid' much less irrationally so, we're here discussing the medical facts and other down sides of choosing a lifestyle against what God prescribed for human/kind.. facts which are deliberately kept out of the news or media, for bizarre reasons where if you discuss any openly you run a risk of being labeled something completely incompatible by the likes of you. In fact you do them a great disservice as it appears the majority of them don't know of other lethal diseases that plague them outside of HIV which apparently they don't even desire to take heed of:

    "he term 'barebacking' refers to intentional unsafe anal sex. In a study of HIV-positive gay men, the majority of participants (84%) reported engaging in barebacking in the past three months, and 43% of the men reported recent bareback sex with a partner who most likely is not infected with HIV, therefore putting another man at risk of contracting HIV. (Halkitis PN. Intentional unsafe sex (barebacking) among HIV-positive gay men who seek sexual partners on the Internet. AIDS Care. 2003; 15: 367-78.) "


    Being a Muslim doesn't lower your lifespan by 8-20 years
    Being a Muslim doesn't make you more prune to suicide
    Being a Muslim doesn't make you more prune to promiscuity
    Being a Muslim doesn't leave you more open for more lethal diseases some which are most prevalent exclusively in homosexuals like Kaposi's sarcoma
    Being a Muslim doesn't make you more prune to mental health problems
    Being a Muslim doesn't make you more prune to substance and drug abuse
    being a Muslim doesn't make you three times as likely to suffer depression
    Being a Muslim doesn't make your children more prune to poverty or coming from a broken home or more prune for early promiscuity
    Being a Muslim denotes you have subscribed to a world religion not a perverse sexual act.. so again, until such a time you can work on your logic can you engage in this topic.
    In general if you wish to discuss things that you find wrong with Islam you can do so on a separate thread, on this thread we are discussing the risks of having a homosexual life.. Again a lewd sexual act isn't a religion, it isn't a building, it isn't a plant, it isn't the ten o'clock news.. try to put things in their proper categories!

    Labelling everyone who has a problem with either as phobic in some sort of way is just a petulant retort.
    How so? homosexuality is the name of the game, we are not discussing homophobia we are discussing homosexuality, there is a difference -- look it up in the dictionary yourself, you'll find them as different as night and day..


    You answered it yourself: consent.

    There's really no argument that someone who believes in consent can argue against concerning that. There are no ethical issues. As soon as two parties consent to any given action it no longer becomes a question of ethics.
    So I take it that you find it equally ethical for a brother and sister to consent to sex? as a general rule the atheist moral compass isn't the measuring stick that most use as a baseline for morality!

    I don't care what affect it has on him. I didn't quote him just to get him to respond.
    Then I fear your punch line was misapplied!

    At what? What do you imagine 'we' are trying to do?
    Get everyone else to subscribe to your degenerate views!

    format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A. View Post
    almost feels like im being trolled here but i guess everybody's views are engrained.
    knew a guy at uni, very polite, didnt even look at girls, his mannerisms were odd. like his brain was a bit off center, didnt fit into any groups. seemed like a cool guy i think i prayed jumma with him a few times.
    anyway, i thought he was gay.
    now i work in a pharmacy with about 10 women and 2 guys. they must think im gay.(implying im polite, lol, my intentions are...what my hands, feet and mouth send out against me i do not know)
    dont dismantle homosexuality down to being a perverted act, its somebodies whole life you deconstructed, try a little more understanding.
    I don't get your story, and further pls. allow me, when someone defines themselves as a homosexual, they are defining themselves by their sexual act.. No one goes to a place and introduces themselves as 'Hello, I am a strict heterosexual' and if they do then I'd venture to question their mental well-being.. No one would know if someone is a homo or not unless they define themselves as such!

    all the best
    Last edited by جوري; 03-12-2010 at 05:09 PM.
    found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    Those preachers (muslims, orthodox jews, protestants, catholics) who stand against the sin of sodomy are biggest friends of homosexuals and lesbians because they tell them - What you do is wrong, stop ruining your life, you werent born as sexual deviant, you can leave your pervertion. But to leave it, you must know that it's evil.

    Those preachers who say that sodomy is alright, they only hurt homosexuals and lesbians, because they affirm them in their sin. That's sad.
    found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

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    Skavau's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    format_quote Originally Posted by Skye
    I know what a phobia is, we have already defined it..
    we are not here passing judgment nor are we 'afraid' much less irrationally so, we're here discussing the medical facts and other down sides of choosing a lifestyle against what God prescribed for human/kind.. facts which are deliberately kept out of the news or media, for bizarre reasons where if you discuss any openly you run a risk of being labeled something completely incompatible by the likes of you. In fact you do them a great disservice as it appears the majority of them don't know of other lethal diseases that plague them outside of HIV which apparently they don't even desire to take heed of:
    I didn't refer to anyone here being homophobic, did I? I simply replied to comment by a user that dismissed homophobia as a legitimate descriptive term. I made the cheap point of stating that if homophobia is an irrelevant term, then so is Islamaphobia.

    In any case please do not pretend this is an entirely utilitarian health issue. Even if it was true that homosexual intercourse is dangerous, even if it was true that homosexual intercourse has disastrous health consequences - it only negates it to being as immoral than smoking, or engaging in extreme sports. And indeed, you do not see the disgust (or I haven't) towards smokers that you see towards homosexuals.

    That is because I believe, the act and/or the tendency of homosexuality represents a lot more than merely 'bad for health' to some.

    Being a Muslim doesn't lower your lifespan by 8-20 years
    Being a Muslim doesn't make you more prune to suicide
    Being a Muslim doesn't make you more prune to promiscuity
    Being a Muslim doesn't leave you more open for more lethal diseases some which are most prevalent exclusively in homosexuals like Kaposi's sarcoma
    Being a Muslim doesn't make you more prune to mental health problems
    Being a Muslim doesn't make you more prune to substance and drug abuse
    being a Muslim doesn't make you three times as likely to suffer depression
    Being a Muslim doesn't make your children more prune to poverty or coming from a broken home or more prune for early promiscuity
    Being a Muslim denotes you have subscribed to a world religion not a perverse sexual act.. so again, until such a time you can work on your logic can you engage in this topic.
    What does this have to do with anything I said?

    In general if you wish to discuss things that you find wrong with Islam you can do so on a separate thread, on this thread we are discussing the risks of having a homosexual life.. Again a lewd sexual act isn't a religion, it isn't a building, it isn't a plant, it isn't the ten o'clock news.. try to put things in their proper categories!
    I think I already said this, but I wasn't comparing Islam with Homosexuality.

    So I take it that you find it equally ethical for a brother and sister to consent to sex? as a general rule the atheist moral compass isn't the measuring stick that most use as a baseline for morality!
    It isn't ethical or unethical. The choice removes the dilemma. It is no more unethical than me firing up Mediamonkey and playing a song. I chose to do it.

    Get everyone else to subscribe to your degenerate views!
    What views would these be?
    found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

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  9. #46
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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    Nobody has addressed the points in OP in a meaningful way. Next best thing is to derail the thread. Congratulations!
    found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkîn (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât, and gives the Zakât, and keep their word whenever they make a promise, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of persecution, hardship, and war. Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious).

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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    format_quote Originally Posted by Skavau View Post
    I didn't refer to anyone here being homophobic, did I? I simply replied to comment by a user that dismissed homophobia as a legitimate descriptive term. I made the cheap point of stating that if homophobia is an irrelevant term, then so is Islamaphobia.
    Then neither of those descriptions have anything to do with my thread and I'd again prefer that if you are to engage in a topic that you'd be in keeping with the subject matter..
    When the conditions of phobia are met then we can discuss them, so far neither phobia of the islamic or homosexual type have anything to do with this thread!

    In any case please do not pretend this is an entirely utilitarian health issue. Even if it was true that homosexual intercourse is dangerous, even if it was true that homosexual intercourse has disastrous health consequences - it only negates it to being as immoral than smoking, or engaging in extreme sports. And indeed, you do not see the disgust (or I haven't) towards smokers that you see towards homosexuals.
    The article doesn't discuss sexual health only.. it discusses the impact on society, children, mental status, socioeconomic implications amongst others.. pls. try to read the entire topic you are opposing before hanging on to a strawman, and again as a general rule try to discuss things in context, I am getting tired of you pulling out of a hat every irrelevant topic to make a similitude to this one!
    That is because I believe, the act and/or the tendency of homosexuality represents a lot more than merely 'bad for health' to some.
    see previous reply, and go back and read the original article!

    What does this have to do with anything I said?
    What does what you have said have to do with our topic here?

    I think I already said this, but I wasn't comparing Islam with Homosexuality.
    Then what were you doing?


    It isn't ethical or unethical. The choice removes the dilemma. It is no more unethical than me firing up Mediamonkey and playing a song. I chose to do it.
    Again with bizarre similitudes and lower than normal baseline.
    The way you define morality stands at a different platform than society at large!

    What views would these be?
    The ones you've been expressing here!

    all the best
    | Likes ba51th liked this post
    found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    format_quote Originally Posted by Chuck View Post
    Nobody has addressed the points in OP in a meaningful way. Next best thing is to derail the thread. Congratulations!

    what you are not sold on 'consent' 'Islamophobia' 'homophobia' and bigotry?
    found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

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  12. #49
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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye View Post

    what you are not sold on 'consent' 'Islamophobia' 'homophobia' and bigotry?
    Well, the trend in this thread is ignoring the OP and labeling people with phobia, bigotry, etc... This is neither a rebuttal nor addressing the points in a meaningful way. So I guess they can't.
    found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    It is not Al-Birr (piety, righteousness, and obedience to Allâh, etc.) that you turn your faces towards east and (or) west (in prayers); but Al-Birr is (the quality of) the one who believes in Allâh, the Last Day, the Angels, the Book, the Prophets and gives his wealth, in spite of love for it, to the kinsfolk, to the orphans, and to Al-Masâkîn (the poor), and to the wayfarer, and to those who ask, and to set slaves free, performs As-Salât, and gives the Zakât, and keep their word whenever they make a promise, and who are patient in extreme poverty and ailment (disease) and at the time of persecution, hardship, and war. Such are the people of the truth and they are Al-Muttaqûn (the pious).

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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye View Post


    I don't get your story, and further pls. allow me, when someone defines themselves as a homosexual, they are defining themselves by their sexual act.. No one goes to a place and introduces themselves as 'Hello, I am a strict heterosexual' and if they do then I'd venture to question their mental well-being.. No one would know if someone is a homo or not unless they define themselves as such!

    all the best
    no, when someone defines themselves as homosexual they imply they are attracted to a person who they should not be attracted to. acting on this thought process is another matter entirely.
    i would not condemn either, its not my place and i am not fit to pass judgement upon them.
    allah swt has given us the faculty of reason and an ability to distinguish between right and wronge, i am at a loss as how to apply these at the moment.
    anyhoo as its written, allah swt is well aqquanted with all that we do, he knows the secrets of our hearts and our true motives even if we do not, allah swt is the keeper of the seen and the unseen and he is the best judge of all. know this though, even if you were to claim these people are so far from allah swt that they were worthy of your condemnation, everybody serves allah swt, if they want to or not!
    i cant bang my head against this wall many more times so if iv lost the plot its all good.
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  15. #51
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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A. View Post
    no, when someone defines themselves as homosexual they imply they are attracted to a person who they should not be attracted to. acting on this thought process is another matter entirely.
    i would not condemn either, its not my place and i am not fit to pass judgement upon them.
    allah swt has given us the faculty of reason and an ability to distinguish between right and wronge, i am at a loss as how to apply these at the moment.
    anyhoo as its written, allah swt is well aqquanted with all that we do, he knows the secrets of our hearts and our true motives even if we do not, allah swt is the keeper of the seen and the unseen and he is the best judge of all. know this though, even if you were to claim these people are so far from allah swt that they were worthy of your condemnation, everybody serves allah swt, if they want to or not!
    i cant bang my head against this wall many more times so if iv lost the plot its all good.


    Go back to the first page and read what the article is actually about..
    I haven't said these people are far removed from God or not, in fact I have gone forth and posted the story of a homosexual Muslim who changed his life-style..
    Islam views homosexuality (the act of sodomy) as a sin.. if you don't agree with that, that it is your entitlement but that is outside the folds of Islam..

    This thread isn't about preaching nor emotionality. It isn't about bigotry or phobias, it isn't about consent.. It is about the social, moral, health, societal implications, psychiatric as well the morbidity and mortality that plagues folks who choose to act outside the folds of what is natural and religiously moral!

    As such, I think perhaps this thread is a little outside the sphere that you'd like to engage.

    all the best
    found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

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  16. #52
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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye View Post


    Go back to the first page and read what the article is actually about..
    I haven't said these people are far removed from God or not, in fact I have gone forth and posted the story of a homosexual Muslim who changed his life-style..
    Islam views homosexuality (the act of sodomy) as a sin.. if you don't agree with that, that it is your entitlement but that is outside the folds of Islam..

    This thread isn't about preaching nor emotionality. It isn't about bigotry or phobias, it isn't about consent.. It is about the social, moral, health, societal implications, psychiatric as well the morbidity and mortality that plagues folks who choose to act outside the folds of what is natural and religiously moral!

    As such, I think perhaps this thread is a little outside the sphere that you'd like to engage.

    all the best
    i dont really put my faith in science, after all we only live until a 100 if we'r lucky. try getting a few thousand candles on the cake and see if science can explain that..people did live that long im sure. hypocritical for someone who's education and interest has been in science. proper outside the fold on that one.
    just depends on how much you attribute to god, your social, economic, bodily condition and ultimatly your mortality would be a nice start. dont worry this time im really going.

    peace.
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  17. #53
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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    format_quote Originally Posted by M.I.A. View Post
    i dont really put my faith in science, after all we only live until a 100 if we'r lucky. try getting a few thousand candles on the cake and see if science can explain that..people did live that long im sure. hypocritical for someone who's education and interest has been in science. proper outside the fold on that one.
    just depends on how much you attribute to god, your social, economic, bodily condition and ultimatly your mortality would be a nice start. dont worry this time im really going.

    peace.
    I am not worried.. and I am not sure I ever understand what this last post is about..

    all the best
    found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    Very interesting read. Here in the Netherlands it's almost impossible to criticize homosexuality (it's probably the same in other western countries). When you're debating with westerners and tell them that you're not against homosexual individuals, but against homosexuality, they still won't accept it. They defend homosexuality as if it were a religion sent by God.
    Last edited by Argamemnon; 03-13-2010 at 03:32 AM.
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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    @ skavaooooo : i am a homophobic.
    found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist View Post
    @ skavaooooo : i am a homophobic.
    Me to bro. ....how have you been brother? Long time no see.

    Between you being a scientist and me being.....idk, crazy...between us we can make a pill to cure homosexuality! It's a disease, we can fix it!
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  22. #57
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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    format_quote Originally Posted by Italianguy View Post
    Me to bro. ....how have you been brother? Long time no see.

    Between you being a scientist and me being.....idk, crazy...between us we can make a pill to cure homosexuality! It's a disease, we can fix it!
    Allhamdulillah. Yourself?

    There is no cure for self-inflicted lunacy.
    found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    format_quote Originally Posted by mad_scientist View Post
    Allhamdulillah. Yourself?

    There is no cure for self-inflicted lunacy.
    Salaam,

    I guess were stuck dealing with them then
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  24. #59
    'Abd Al-Maajid's Avatar Full Member
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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    Eradication of this disease is like executing all the cases and closing their chapters for the next generation.
    YES WE CAN!!!!
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    Re: found this great article on homosexuals on a catholic site of all places

    format_quote Originally Posted by Supreme View Post
    Let's not get worked up about the semantics of 'homophobia'- it exists whether you call it discrimination, bigotry or ignorance.



    When you use the internet you put yourself at risk of viruses or trojans, when you fly or drive you are at risk of a crash or even a terrorist attack.

    I agree homosexuality is repulsive, but then just because I'm indifferent to something, it does not turn me into a bigot who hates a group of people or their legal sexual preferences that they have no ability to patrol.
    In Islam, homosexual acts are againts God's laws and the punishments for it are severe, similar to adultery.
    Hence, muslim should be against and condemn homosexuality.
    If that means muslims are homophobes then so be it.
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