I can't believe this!

format_quote Originally Posted by Argamemnon

Insha'Allah.. I don't want to be part of a country like that. I'm very pessimistic by nature as you may have noticed.

I don't find you pessimistic, I find you realistic and that can turn anyone into a cynic.. it is a part of gaining wisdom, but that must be tempered with proper Islamic knowledge and the desire for guidance from Allah swt..

format_quote Originally Posted by cat eyes

nowadays im seeing christcian girls waiting outside of the mosque for there muslim boyfriends.

Now this is something! What kind of rudeness is this that will make them so proud of having their girlfriends waiting them outside the mosque??

format_quote Originally Posted by Argamemnon

And why would you pray at a mosque when you have a girlfriend 'waiting outside'?! What kind of nonsense is this, do these people think they are fooling God? A large number of Muslims seem to think that as long as they pray they will enter heaven regardless of what they do.

Simply because many Muslims deal with prayers as a habit that has to be done anyways...or to just looks like a Muslim in the eyes of others. Its the same when we see some sisters wear hijab and when you ask them why? they will tell you: "we just used to it and it become a daily habit"!!

^^ I would say its a bad thing...

Educate the youth! The youth are the key to saving the country!

If you instil in them love for their religion, a strong adherence to the Qur'aan and Sunnah and Islamic morals and ettiquettes then Turkey as a Muslim nation will be saved inshaAllah Ta'ala! The youth are the future leaders.

The problem with Turkey is much the same with Iran unfortunately.. they were too proud to let go of their roots when embracing Islam, though I am not a fan of Egypt's govt. and its inability to rid itself of its Pharaohs to modern day, it was a country of prime example of how for all their vast civilization they embraced Islam fully, language and all so that even under a shiite empire they have retained the proper path of the sunnah. Iranians are always boasting they are Persians 'not Arabs' and the same with Turks.. well there is no distinction amongst Muslims as it so happens there is no difference of an Arab over a non-Arab save for piety!
but I must admit that the few Turks that I know are very religious and there are five of them.. masha'Allah completely the opposite of the two Iranians I know although I am trying desperately with one of them and I think insha'Allah it might work..

I still cant believe how Turkey could let itself become secular, subhaanAllah

Allahumma anqithil muslimeena fi kulli makaan!

This is why it is sooo important to learn our history, to learn fiqh, to know our mistakes so we can too learn from them. At certain points in history the Muslims dominated such vast parts of the world, from Europe to China. What were our weaknesses?

format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye

Iranians are always boasting they are Persians 'not Arabs' and the same with Turks..

In the 19th century most Turks/Anatolians didn't even know they were Turks, they only knew they were "Muslim". Turkish language was more like a mix of Persian (Farsi) and Arabic. This immense pride of being Turkish, or more precisely the concept of nationalism and racism was slowly adopted from the West after the French revolution..

I think Arabs can be pretty nationalist too. Even Saudis are extremely nationalistic, they don't even care about other Arab countries. I don't want to know what they think about Turks or Iranians, lol.

format_quote Originally Posted by Argamemnon

In the 19th century most Turks/Anatolians didn't even know they were Turks, they only knew they were "Muslim". This immense pride of being Turkish, or more precisely the concept of nationalism and even racism was slowly adopted from the West after the French revolution..

I think Arabs can be pretty nationalist too. Even Saudis are extremely nationalistic, they don't even care about other Arab countries. I don't want to know what they think about Turks or Iranians, lol.

Then I think they who have vested interest in keeping us hateful toward one another has succeeded and it is so unfortunate and with a sorry heart that I agree with you I think that is why Allah swt in his noble book describes those given knowledge as very few.. so the best we can hope for now at least is to be of those few..

also akhi pls let me add if you know someone who does pray know that it is a monumental feat now a days and actually is a good start.. can't tell you how many members of my own family whose parents are very religious don't even know how to perform salaat or make one and miss twenty (and I used to be one of them) Imagine learning and adapting to prayer in your twenties and practicing for a few years to be counted on one hand..al7mdlillah that some even if ignorant in many aspects are at least observant in one which in fact is the most important one that creates the schism between a Muslim and a kaffir!

and Allah swt knows best

Turkey, leader of the Muslim world?


In mid-March, Turkish President Abdullah Gul travelled to Cameroon for his country’s first trade mission to a central African nation. He got a warm welcome, The Economist reported. “Turkey must reclaim its mantle,” one Islamic cleric told him, “as leader of the Islamic world.” In this context, you’re not talking restoration of the Ottoman Empire – you’re talking expansion. Although the Ottoman Empire embraced Egypt, Libya, Algeria and Sudan, it never reached central Africa. For its part, The Economist recognized the credibility of resurrected Turkish ambitions. African countries have bitter memories of Western colonialists and Arab slave traders, the magazine noted. In contrast, they regard Turks as enlightened and humane.

Read political scientist George Friedman’s The Next 100 Years: A Forecast for the 21st Century and you find yourself pondering – almost against your will – the apparent implications of otherwise insignificant news events. You’ll be skeptical, for instance, of Mr. Friedman’s assertion that Turkey will put together an Ottoman alliance before 2050 – with Ankara the capital of a Muslim brotherhood of nations that stretches from Bosnia-Herzegovina to Saudi Arabia, from Morocco to Afghanistan. Yet, Mr. Friedman presents his geopolitical analysis with a stern and, in many ways, compelling logic.

Why would Turkey emerge as the leader of the Muslim world? Mr. Friedman notes that Turkey is the richest Muslim country – the only Muslim country with “a modern economy.” Turkey is the 17th-largest economy in the world with GDP of $600-billion (U.S.). Iran is 29th (GDP: $300-billion). Egypt is 52nd (GDP: $125-billion). Think of Turkey as a European country and it ranks seventh. Further, Iran is too erratic and too radical to assume regional leadership, and Pakistan is too unstable.

When the next global war breaks out, Mr. Friedman guesstimates, Turkey will join Japan to drive the United States out of the Middle East and the Pacific. He says the war is most apt to begin at 5 p.m. on Nov. 24, 2050 – American Thanksgiving – when Japan, mimicking its Second World War success at Pearl Harbor, launches a sneak attack on U.S. space-based communications satellites.

As bizarre as this prediction sounds, Mr. Friedman is no crank. Author or co-author of six books on war and peace, he is an academic who founded Stratfor, a private intelligence consulting company based in Austin, Tex. He holds a doctorate in government from Cornell University. Born in Hungary, son of Holocaust survivors, his family was a classic example of refugees who “made it” in America.

Mr. Friedman’s Next 100 Years became a New York Times bestseller when it was published a year ago. However contrary to conventional expectations (in asserting, for example, that China and Russia will both falter economically in the next two decades), this book warrants the reading time. Even where and when it’s wrong (or most apt to be wrong), Mr. Friedman’s analysis is instructive.

As with the First World War, Mr. Friedman argues, the next global conflict will be a war that no one wanted. Driven by demographic decline, Japan will feel compelled to acquire a captive work force on the Chinese mainland. Driven by the collapse of Russia, Turkey will feel compelled to bring order to anarchic neighbouring states. The U.S. will feel obliged to restrain these countries – by force.

History doesn’t necessarily repeat itself, Mr. Friedman says. But it often mimics itself. Each war creates the conditions for the next – and the perceptive observer can rationally anticipate the rise and fall of empires. The conflict that begins midway through the 21st century, he says, will be primarily a space war between Japan and the U.S. and a land war between Turkey and U.S.-allied Poland, the two countries that will seek to fill the vacuum when Russia implodes. Because most of the war will take place in space, there’ll be few civilian casualties – and perhaps only 50,000 soldiers killed in four years of war.

Who wins? Mr. Friedman says the U.S. never goes to war to achieve something, only to prevent something. For this reason, it doesn’t need to win to accomplish its objectives. This makes an American victory in war almost axiomatic. Further, the U.S. is so powerful that the rest of the world combined can’t defeat it. Mr. Friedman notes that no vessel sails anywhere in the world without the implicit protection – some would say the implicit permission – of the U.S. Navy. Like it or not, the 21st century belongs to the United States.

Incidentally, Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan travelled to Sarajevo last week for the country’s first state visit to Bosnia-Herzegovina – a country that thrived as a client state of the Ottoman Empire for 400 years

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...20/?cmpid=rss1

format_quote Originally Posted by Argamemnon

In this tv show with students, evolutionists are debating with Muslims. This atheist professor openly claims that all religions will eventually disappear as science continues to progress. Can you imagine such a thing happening in Egypt, for example?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdvQ8zmhaIc

Forgive my perspective, but I should hope that free debates about metaphysical, philosophical, scientific, ethical, political and religious matters should happen.

format_quote Originally Posted by Gossamer skye

The problem with Turkey is much the same with Iran unfortunately.. they were too proud to let go of their roots when embracing Islam, though I am not a fan of Egypt's govt. and its inability to rid itself of its Pharaohs to modern day, it was a country of prime example of how for all their vast civilization they embraced Islam fully, language and all so that even under a shiite empire they have retained the proper path of the sunnah. Iranians are always boasting they are Persians 'not Arabs' and the same with Turks.. well there is no distinction amongst Muslims as it so happens there is no difference of an Arab over a non-Arab save for piety!
but I must admit that the few Turks that I know are very religious and there are five of them.. masha'Allah completely the opposite of the two Iranians I know although I am trying desperately with one of them and I think insha'Allah it might work..

Iranians are a tough bunch to deal with. Their Aryanism has deluded them. Throw in their legacy of Zoroastrianism. There are many Iranians on my campus, too many. Those families who escaped 1979 revolution ... and you never knew if they are Muslim/ from back home. Well they just look like caucasians but their dressing and attitudes add to that illusion.

Nationalism is a primitive form of tribalism, in my humble estimation. Tribes used to gather on the basis of their genetic history as well as culture. Today's nationalism is very diverse. It could be British-like or Turkey-like or Persian-like. Based on similar ancestry from the "superior races" or something of that sort.

Almost every Muslim nation today has a nationalistic movement. I've been looking into for quite a while. Well of course Iran and Turkey are fine examples. Now add to that list Afghanistan and the Pakhtoon movement. The pakthtoon movement serves to gather ALL pakhtoons under one umbrella. Recently they changed the name of Pakistani province to Khyber Pakhtoonkhwa. I do not have any problem with the name change but the movement is gaining stronghold. This movement strongly abhors Taliban and wants to resort back to their pagan religions.

@ Argamennon: Regarding the rise of atheism, well you can search "Pakistani atheist" on google and you'll see many. Now, its not OPEN at a family level, people dont tell their families USUALLY and are closet atheists but at the national level, its getting opened up. We have a physicist Pervez Hoodhboy who is pretty vocal against Islamic philosophy on national arena etc. There was a time in history of mankind when being a Pakistani implied you are a Muslim. It was synonymous

Also, few weeks back I met a bengali dude, a friend introduced to him. His name is so Islamic that my guess was hes Muslim. He knew about Islam etc. Well today I thought lets add him on facebook, I searched and viola, located him and his profile picture says "Atheists, Winning Since 23 AD" and quotes Epicurus' dilemma of a good God and evil. now you tell me what do i do lol We are living in exciting times wwhere we cannot assume if a person with an Islamic name such as Abdullah is a Muslim or not ....