The above talks about chemicals effecting males and why are we really not hearing many males have those cool deep voices as they used to.
If it was just a simple error with chemicals etc, I don't trust the government, and the fact that the media likes to portray a male not being masculine anymore. Perhaps to get them to be more acceptable??
Plus the fact that the governments have already acknowledged that policies have not been "family orientated". Making it harder for Males to provide for their families without the need of a wife to work. Now they need the wife to work to help make ends meet. Of course both husband and wife work as part of life, if they are in poverty to help make ends meet, but the fact is that they have made it harder for new couples to get a home, and even having to have a joint mortgage etc. So what is the Man's role in this world?? If they are making it harder for them to provide.
Even scientist going as far to experiment on females getting pregnant without the need for a sperm. So again why bother experimenting on this, if they really cared about people?
Why is that they have not sorted out the alcohol, drugs (which there is reference to saying that the Taliban actually were getting rid of them, and that is why they invaded Afghanistan, and even it was confirmed that production went up), if they really cared about the welfare of people??
Just making things socially acceptable which does not have a good image of a Man, I mean why can't they dress like men, why always in a track suits, jeans etc?
A Man's image is were he is responsible, mature, and you can't just be respected by wearing a track suit, jeans all the time. That is why what the Prophets wore were the best and what you see Muslim men wear in the Arab countries. They of course didn't get the Elves in the "Lord of the rings" movie or the Timelords in the "Doctor Who" series to dress in track suits, jeans. They wore long flowing cloths, which frankly gains respect.
As stated in the "Society evils" thread, I do see females working as a good thing for females as they can't be like Muslim women when their males do not teach people to be religious. So when the western females stand on the Day of Judgement, they cannot say they did not have any options and were forced to live with non-Muslim Males and couldn't do what they needed to do in order to make it to Paradise.
So is anybody else seeing a decline of Masculinity???
a. do you think a Muslim Man's dress code is better
b. do you think that being a Muslim Man is better at keeping and being a Man with his responsibilites?
I don't see a decline of masculinity, but what I see is men lost and unsure of their role. This loss manifests in extremes of either hyper-masculinity or hypo-masculinity. It also seems as though males are not becoming "adults" until their late 30's. I am not saying this to pick on males by any means, nor to make sweeping generalizations. This is just my own personal observations on the topic. I am also not blaming males for these problems that I see. I think that when women began taking on the roles of men, it left men floundering with no longer knowing what their own roles were-- roles in society, in the home, etc. Over time this led to a whole lot of other problems within them. Sadly, there arises a vicious cycle where when men have lost themselves, then women feel the need to step up into the roles in order to support themselves, their family, be the strength, etc.
Plus the fact that the governments have already acknowledged that policies have not been "family orientated". Making it harder for Males to provide for their families without the need of a wife to work. Now they need the wife to work to help make ends meet. Of course both husband and wife work as part of life, if they are in poverty to help make ends meet, but the fact is that they have made it harder for new couples to get a home, and even having to have a joint mortgage etc. So what is the Man's role in this world?? If they are making it harder for them to provide.
You make it seem that the government does it on purpose? I can't speak for your particular government but generally You live in the West and in the West where you have the option of working or not working. To every employer you go you have an agreement that you will exchange n amount of hours (or however your salary is made up) for x amount of money. Now, in your mind you look at the possible things you can buy with x amount of money so if you think the house down the street is worth you working x amount of time then you will work n amount of time in order to buy that house. Things don't come for free and sometimes, if one person (say the husband) does not make enough money to buy that nice house down the street then the wife takes on a job in order to pay for it. So the problem is not that the government is trying on purpose to screw men over in order to get women to work; the problem is that people want more stuff. Btw, sometimes the government needs people to work like in the case of WW2 where men were off fighting Nazis and women were encouraged to work for the benefit of the country (i.e., everyone's).
Even scientist going as far to experiment on females getting pregnant without the need for a sperm. So again why bother experimenting on this, if they really cared about people?
What are you referring to exactly? And even if they were experimenting on this what would be the problem? It would benefit women or men who did not want to get married or had health problems that stopped them from getting pregnant the old fashioned way which shows caring for people.
Why is that they have not sorted out the alcohol, drugs (which there is reference to saying that the Taliban actually were getting rid of them, and that is why they invaded Afghanistan, and even it was confirmed that production went up), if they really cared about the welfare of people??
How would you sort out the drug and alcohol problem? There was such a thing as the 'prohibition era' and that didn't work. Unfortunately, if there's a large enough demand for something there tends to be a supply. The problem is not solvable IMO.
Just making things socially acceptable which does not have a good image of a Man, I mean why can't they dress like men, why always in a track suits, jeans etc?
A Man's image is were he is responsible, mature, and you can't just be respected by wearing a track suit, jeans all the time. That is why what the Prophets wore were the best and what you see Muslim men wear in the Arab countries. They of course didn't get the Elves in the "Lord of the rings" movie or the Timelords in the "Doctor Who" series to dress in track suits, jeans. They wore long flowing cloths, which frankly gains respect.
I think suits are great and command a lot of respect.
Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
-Plato
They wore long flowing cloths, which frankly gains respect.
That is purely cultural. I know here in Texas that wearing a robe does not imbue any aura of respect on anyone. Also when the Prophets wore robes everyone wore robes. It was not a fashion statement, it was just simply the fashion.
b. do you think that being a Muslim Man is better at keeping and being a Man with his responsibilites?
It depends on your definition of "Man". What, specifically, defines a man for you?
That is purely cultural. I know here in Texas that wearing a robe does not imbue any aura of respect on anyone. Also when the Prophets wore robes everyone wore robes. It was not a fashion statement, it was just simply the fashion.
It depends on your definition of "Man". What, specifically, defines a man for you?
Obviously trolling again, and lying on my other threads, quit coming into my threads for trolling.
I will add that the only Men in this world are the ones that worship the one God, remember the Day of Judgement, in Paradise and Hell. The best examples of Men were the Prophets Lut, Noah, Joseph, Moses, Muhammad, Jesus, Ibrahim, David, Solomon peace be upon them.
Also the Muslim Man's dress code does bring out respect, not just because the Prophets wore them, because you can't call it a fashion when ALL the Prophets wore them. It is worn as it is the best.
Wearing shorts does not bring out people respecting you as a Man, and frankly neither does jeans or track suits.
There is no need to talk about what is respected in Texas, because what about if the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him visited there?? What do you think people would do, make fun out of what he is wearing? BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU SAY, because it shows disrespect for the Prophets!
Obviously trolling again, and lying on my other threads, quit coming into my threads for trolling.
I am not trolling. If you think I am trolling then report me. I was asking an extremely relevant question. You regret the decline in masculinity. I asked you to define it, which you did not do.
I ask you again, what specifically defines a man for you?
Also the Muslim Man's dress code does bring out respect, not just because the Prophets wore them, because you can't call it a fashion when ALL the Prophets wore them. It is worn as it is the best.
Everyone wore robes during the time of the prophets. The kings wore them and the peasants wore them.
There is no need to talk about what is respected in Texas, because what about if the Prophet Jesus peace be upon him visited there?? What do you think people would do, make fun out of what he is wearing? BE CAREFUL WHAT YOU SAY, because it shows disrespect for the Prophets!
If Jesus had been born in Texas today he would grow up wearing jeans. He most certainly would not wear robes. Men of respect here wear suits or a nice shirt and slacks. Your opinion is biased by your cultural perspective I believe.
A) As far as dress code it depends on the situation. Shalwar and jubba for instance, are fine in warm and hot climates (i.e mostly asian countries). But not so useful in the colder climates (i.e England!) I've always been taught to do your best to fit in and blend with society; don't be too extravacant (flourescent pink flairs and a rainbow afro) nor too trampy (literally, vest and jeans) so that you don't fit in. I dress quite smartly anyway (can't help it, I'm a geek)
B) If a person follows the islamic principles, then they do tend to be good at keeping with their responsibilities. A lot of things that Islam teaches, in terms of people skills, non-muslims and society as a whole actually admire. Honesty, decency, cleanliness and so on - all are respectable qualities that no matter where you go, people resonate positively with.
Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
I am not trolling. If you think I am trolling then report me. I was asking an extremely relevant question. You regret the decline in masculinity. I asked you to define it, which you did not do.
I ask you again, what specifically defines a man for you?
Everyone wore robes during the time of the prophets. The kings wore them and the peasants wore them.
If Jesus had been born in Texas today he would grow up wearing jeans. He most certainly would not wear robes. Men of respect here wear suits or a nice shirt and slacks. Your opinion is biased by your cultural perspective I believe.
I already have defined what is being a Man!!
Definition - one who worships Allah, remembers the Day of Judgement and Paradise and Hell.
2. You talked about fashion, well fashion changes over time, its not a fashion its normal clothes.
3. If Prophet Jesus peace be upon him was born today, he would NOT be wearing jeans etc. When he comes back he will NOT be wearing jeans or a suit.
4. If my opinions are biased then why did they not dress the Elves in the "Lords of the Rings" films in Jeans or shorts?? As they were copying off Muslims in gaining respect and being good people by the way that they also dress.
The Decline of Masculinity was clearly foretold as one of the Signs of the End of times, by Prophet Muhammad (saw).. when he said...
Men will dress like women and women will dress like men. Men will become like women and Women will become like men....
It was this warning which we see, where Feminist Revolution has made Women fall in to the role of man in the mainstream world, and women have become like men....
They order like men, they talk like men, they even dress with a suite and tie like men, they have hair styles like men... they they look in your eyes with no Shyness when there talk , as it never was like this before the Feminist Revolution took over....
I wouldn't say that it is Feminist Revolution only, to be blamed, but what brought that Revolution was Capitalism.. ... so such Ideologies are to be blamed for creating the disequilibrium in the mainstream societies...
Then since the Women have been forced out of their Homes and men and women mix around... the men are not loyal to their wives and neither are husband to their wives, as much flirting that takes place at work places and outside leads towards the collapse of the Family... with children suffering the MOST!
How would you sort out the drug and alcohol problem? There was such a thing as the 'prohibition era' and that didn't work. Unfortunately, if there's a large enough demand for something there tends to be a supply. The problem is not solvable IMO.
Occupying forces send Afghan crack only to Iran
Deadly narcotics like compact heroin, crack, is only produced, under the guidance of certain Western countries in Afghanistan, for consumption in Iran, commander of the drug squad says.
Since USA and Allies invaded Afghanistan to "Save" the world... there has been increase in the Production of Drugs and Opium almost the same as much as it was eliminated by the Taliban.... YES Taliban when were ruling our Region (Iran, Pakistan, Afghanistan) was safe from all kinds of drug mafias and terrorism...
Since USA came 2 Million Drug addicts have increased in Pakistan, Iran and China....
There is a way to take out Drugs... You know who took out drugs before USA came ?
The United States had sent a small team to Afghanistan in the early months
of 2001—when it was already known by both aerial reconnaissance and a
preliminary on the ground survey that the Taliban had achieved a tremendous
success in eradicating opium growing. The team was to determine how the
Taliban had accomplished this remarkable—almost miraculous—transformation.
One of them, Mr. James Callahan, reported back that they did it by
consensus of the elders connected with the mosques in almost every town and
village.102 Blair now attempts to make the world believe with sweeping statements
that the Taliban “are making a determined effort to return and using
the drugs trade as a front.” (A Democracy that Never was , written by Abidullah Jan)
Even the little percent of Drugs or Opium production which was being used to make drugs was being done by, Northern Alliance group that ruled 15-20 percent of northern Afghanistan, which was not under Taliban and they were BACKED BY USA and Allies!!
Definition - one who worships Allah, remembers the Day of Judgement and Paradise and Hell.
If that is your definition of a Man, then masculinity would have nothing at all to do with who earns money or how deep their voice is.
I want to know your definition of a Man, of masculinity, in regards to the chemicals and providing for families that you mentioned in the original post.
2. You talked about fashion, well fashion changes over time, its not a fashion its normal clothes.
It is not normal everywhere. In many places it is quite abnormal. Fashion is defined as what is the style and custom at any given time. In some parts of the world robes still are the custom. In some parts they are not.
4. If my opinions are biased then why did they not dress the Elves in the "Lords of the Rings" films in Jeans or shorts?? As they were copying off Muslims in gaining respect and being good people by the way that they also dress.
If you have watched the movies you will also see that the evil Saruman and the evil Nazgul also wore robes so robes were obviously not a sign that a person was good and deserved respect.
It is because robes are not attached to any one single time period, and are associated with times in which there was not much technology that many of the characters wear robes in that movie. That is the same reason that you see the wizards in the Harry Potter movies wearing robes (even the bad guys), because robes are often associated (in the West anyway) with a lack of technology.
muslim men should dress modest, i see this very less. i see more muslimahs dressing modest then muslim men and its very sad. its very clear from hadith of the prophet (saw) that he wore trousers above his ankles and encouraged the brothers of this ummah to do the same. i know that guys tend to slag each other off too so maybe thats the reason for why they don't do it
you know the reason why non muslims believe that muslimahs are oppressed in islam, they believe this because they see a married couple, the wife is wearing the nikab and the husband is wearing western clothes this is why they believe she is being forced to wear the nikab because they see the husband can wear what he wants but of course this is not true.
islam has its dress code for both muslim men and muslim women if both of them dressed like muslims i gaurante non muslims would not be saying muslim women are being forced to wear the nikab.
they will see that its a condition of both genders in islam to dress modest.
If that is your definition of a Man, then masculinity would have nothing at all to do with who earns money or how deep their voice is.
I want to know your definition of a Man, of masculinity, in regards to the chemicals and providing for families that you mentioned in the original post.
It is not normal everywhere. In many places it is quite abnormal. Fashion is defined as what is the style and custom at any given time. In some parts of the world robes still are the custom. In some parts they are not.
If you have watched the movies you will also see that the evil Saruman and the evil Nazgul also wore robes so robes were obviously not a sign that a person was good and deserved respect.
It is because robes are not attached to any one single time period, and are associated with times in which there was not much technology that many of the characters wear robes in that movie. That is the same reason that you see the wizards in the Harry Potter movies wearing robes (even the bad guys), because robes are often associated (in the West anyway) with a lack of technology.
I already gave my defnition of being a Man, which allows him to be masculine.
Not to go around being lewd with his wife and others.
muslim men should dress modest, i see this very less. i see more muslimahs dressing modest then muslim men and its very sad. its very clear from hadith of the prophet (saw) that he wore trousers above his ankles and encouraged the brothers of this ummah to do the same. i know that guys tend to slag each other off too so maybe thats the reason for why they don't do it
you know the reason why non muslims believe that muslimahs are oppressed in islam, they believe this because they see a married couple, the wife is wearing the nikab and the husband is wearing western clothes this is why they believe she is being forced to wear the nikab because they see the husband can wear what he wants but of course this is not true.
islam has its dress code for both muslim men and muslim women if both of them dressed like muslims i gaurante non muslims would not be saying muslim women are being forced to wear the nikab.
they will see that its a condition of both genders in islam to dress modest.
Which country do you live in??
I certainly don't see that. Ofcourse there are a lot of women who dress modestly, some in full hijab etc. but many women are way off the mark. Go out to a restuarant on a Saturday night, it's nothing short of shocking. I honestly cannot distiguish between a muslim and a non muslim.
The head scarf has become something that is optional, according to Islam a women is regarded as naked if she goes into a public place with her hair uncovered. That is not all that is uncovered believe me, I sometimes think the azaab of Allah is around the corner. Yes many men are guilty of not following the sunnah etc, but atleast their aurah/satar is covered. To go to a muslim wedding and not commit Zina of the eyes, has become impossible. May allah save us. Ameen
muslim men should dress modest, i see this very less. i see more muslimahs dressing modest then muslim men and its very sad. its very clear from hadith of the prophet (saw) that he wore trousers above his ankles and encouraged the brothers of this ummah to do the same. i know that guys tend to slag each other off too so maybe thats the reason for why they don't do it
you know the reason why non muslims believe that muslimahs are oppressed in islam, they believe this because they see a married couple, the wife is wearing the nikab and the husband is wearing western clothes this is why they believe she is being forced to wear the nikab because they see the husband can wear what he wants but of course this is not true.
islam has its dress code for both muslim men and muslim women if both of them dressed like muslims i gaurante non muslims would not be saying muslim women are being forced to wear the nikab.
they will see that its a condition of both genders in islam to dress modest.
I saw this the other day it was so funny to look at, there was a muslimah with full hijaab and abayah on and her husband was wearing a tight t shirt showing off all his muscles and he had shorts on also lol. It looked so funny. It was like seeing george bush hold hands with a niqaabi LOL
or seeing a brother with a big beard and juba on walking with a girl in mini skirt and low cut top. double standards I feel.
Last edited by Salahudeen; 07-09-2010 at 10:03 AM.
“Who said that guidance requires there to be someone accompanying you"
Both brother Squiggle and Muslimeen are right, both muslim males and females are as bad as each other its just not specifically one gender. On another note going back to the original point of whether there is a decline of masculinity I'd definitly agree there has been a sharp change to the roles of male in the family and perhaps definitely in the west there is this need to make Women totally equal both in work and at home, personally i really don't have women working as long as there isn't obvious free mixing and the home doesnt suffer, and who's to say there is no problem with the husband taking on some of the household chores. The talk men looking presentable and a good image i agree people definitely judge on the way you dress, if i walk out on the weekends wearing a track n hoody with a hat n treds you'd think im jus a youth looking for trouble but on the weekdays if i come out of training with my uniform people assume authority funny how just a change of clothes can change a person perceptions. But going back to whether we should wear those long flowing clothes like in the arabs would be a ridiculous idea especially in cold countries i think a suit or shirt n trousers would suffice. But its definitely more how a man behaves he can look as smart as he wants, but his actions that are more important i guess......
To my Akh's tryin to stay on their deen
It gets mean especially when u stay on the scene
And at the same try to stay out of trouble
But don't forget the blessing's in the struggle...
You gotta stay on your salats, your zakats, your Quran
I think wearing a t-shirt and shorts is quite a humble dress. Compared to lets say suit.
The shorts were above his knee's barely covering his thighs and his t shirt sleeves were just over his shoulder. And he had clean shaven face like bush it looked funny because the lady looked like a proper muslimah covered up in islamic clothing, and the boy was dressed/groomed like .....
“Who said that guidance requires there to be someone accompanying you"
i think this is a good place to mention a hadith on another recent thread
"Abu Hurairah narrated that Allah's Messenger Muhammad said: "Prophet Moses was a shy person and used to cover his body completely because of his extensive shyness. One of the children of Israel hurt him by saying: 'He covers his body in this way only because of some defect in his skin, either leprosy or scrotal hernia, or he has some other defect.
Allah wished to clear Moses of what they said about him, so one day while Moses was in seclusion, he took his clothes and put them on a stone and started taking a bath. When he had finished the bath, he moved towards his clothes so as to take them, but the stone took his clothes and fled. Moses picked up his stick and ran after the stone saying: '0 stone! Give me my garment!' till he reached a group of the children of Israel who saw him naked then and found him in the best shape of what Allah had created, and Allah cleared him of what they had accused him of. The stone stopped there, and Moses took and put on his garment and started hitting the stone with his stick. By Allah, the stone still has some traces of the hitting, three, four, or five marks. This was what Allah the Almighty refers to in His saying: 0 you who believe! Be not like those who annoyed Moses, but Allah cleared him of that which they alleged, and he was honorable in Allah's sight! Surah 33: 69 "
DUPLICATE PLEASE DELETE
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 616
so yh, its ok for men to work out and what not, with the intention of becoming strong. but we should remain extremely modest and shy if we wish to gain max honour in the sight of Allah swt.
on another note i feel the decline in masculinity is heavily influenced (especially in younger high school / college types) by females who are no longer in need of strong men but hunt down handsome and sensitive men instead. cause women are seeing an increasing role as providers of the family. thats why men are turning to fashion, although still trying to remain "cool" and "gangster" lol.
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