Islam has copied (say the Christians and the Jews)

bump in reference to RIP thread.

format_quote Originally Posted by h-n

Islam the only religion

All the Prophets were Muslims,

they all worshipped the one God,

remembered the Day of Judgement, believed in Paradise and Hell,

Sacrificed animals

Fasted

Bowed down in prayer (which even Prophet Jesus peace be upon him had done).

AS stated in the "Collapse of these countries" thread

Allah always sends a Prophet to convey the message, all the messages are the same to worship the one God, remember the Day of Judgement and in Paradise and Hell.

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was sent, as obviously Christianity could not tell the Arabs to repent as they were committing idol worship and the Jews were not remembering the next world. Actually they were happy to live with idol worshippers, they did not tell idol worshippers to repent.

1. The Christians/Jews say that we have copied off their texts, when Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was illiterate, and NO ONE at the time accused him of copying off the Jews and the Christians.

2. Why shouldn't Allah tell us of the stories of the Prophets Ibrahim, Noah, Lut peace be upon them etc? They belong to him. Why are the Christians complaining anyway, they are committing idol worship. Even Allah has said the best people to lay clam to Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him are the ones that follow after him more;-

-we worship the one God, remember the Day of Judgement and Paradise and Hell (which the Christians are committing idol worship and the Jews are leaving out Hell)

-we sacrifice as he did,

-we fast,

- the Kaaba in Mecca is actually built by Prophet Ibrahim peace be upon him.

3. Also how did we get the story of King Solomon peace be upon him controlling the winds and the Jinn? As this was now recently found out to be left out of the bible.

Hello, h-n. Peace.

No one (as far as I know) claims that Muhammed could read and copied texts that he had read. Rather, it is believed that he came into contact with various stories by word of mouth.

There would be no serious problem if the Quranic stories matched those found in the Bible but of course they don't. Often there are conflicts and sometimes these concern major issues of doctrine where Islam and Christianity differ in their teachings.

The story of King Solomon controlling Jinn, etc. is not found in the Bible but a most similar story does appear in the Second Targum on Esther, which is printed in the Miqraoth Gedoloth. This story is, of course, considered to be no more than a fantasy legend concerning things that happened at the meeting of Solomon with the Queen of Sheba.


The account reads:
"Again, when King Solomon's heart was merry with his wine, he commanded to bring the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air and the creeping things of the earth and the jinns and the spirits and the night-goblins to dance before him, in order to show his greatness to all the kings who were prostrating themselves before him. And the king's scribes summoned them by their names, and they all assembled and came unto him, except the prisoners and except the captives and except the man who took charge of them. At that hour the cock of the desert was enjoying himself among the birds and was not found. And the king commanded concerning him that they should bring him by force, and wished to destroy him. The cock of the desert returned to King Solomon's presence and said to him, ‘Hearken, my lord the king of the earth, incline thine ear and hear my words. Is it not three months ago that I took counsel in my heart and formed a firm resolution with myself that I would not eat, and would not drink water, before I had seen the whole world and flown about in it? And I said, Which province or kingdom is there that is not obedient to my lord the king? I beheld and saw a fortified city, the name of which is Qitor, in an eastern land. The dust is heavy with gold, and silver is like dung in the streets, and trees have been planted there from the beginning; and from the Garden of Eden do they drink water. There are there great multitudes with garlands on their heads. From there are plants from the Garden of Eden, because it is near unto it. They know how to shoot with the bow, but cannot be slain with the bow. One woman rules over them all, and her name is the Queen of Sheba. Now if it please thee, my lord the king, I shall gird up my loins, and I shall rise up and go to the fortress of Qitor, to the city of Sheba; I shall "bind their kings with chains and their nobles with links of iron," and shall bring them unto my lord the King.’ And the saying was pleasing before the king, and the king's scribes were called, and they wrote a letter and fastened the letter to the wing of the cock of the desert. And he arose and went up high into the sky and bound on his tiara and grew strong, and flew among the birds. And they flew after him. And they went to the fortress of Qitor, to the city of Sheba. And it came to pass at morning time that the Queen of Sheba went forth by the sea to worship. And the birds darkened the sun; and she laid her hand upon her garments and rent them, and she became surprised and troubled. And when she was troubled, the cock of the desert came down to her, and she saw, and lo! a letter was fastened to his wing. She opened and read it. And this was what was written in it:— ‘From me, King Solomon. Peace be to thee, peace be to thy nobles! Forasmuch as thou knowest that the Holy One, blessed be He! has made me King over the beasts of the field, and over the fowls of the air, and over jinns and over spirits and over night-goblins, and all the kings of the East and the West and the South and the North come and inquire about my health (peace): now, if thou art willing and dost come and inquire after my health, well: I shall make thee greater than all the kings that bow down before me. And if thou art not willing and dost not come nor inquire after my health, I shall send against thee kings and legions and horsemen. And if thou sayest, ‘What kings and legions and horsemen has King Solomon?’ — the beasts of the field are kings and legions and horsemen. And if thou sayest, ‘What horsemen?’ — the fowls of the air are horsemen, my armies are spirits and jinns, and the night-goblins are legions that shall strangle you in your beds within your houses: the beasts of the field shall slay you in the field; the birds of the air shall eat your flesh from off you.’ And when the Queen of Sheba heard the words of the letter, again a second time she laid her hand upon her garments and rent them. She sent and called the elders and nobles, and said to them, ‘Do ye not know what King Solomon has sent to me?’ They answered and said, ‘We do not know King Solomon nor do we make any account of his kingdom.’ But she was not contented, nor did she hearken unto their words, but she sent and called all the ships of the sea and loaded them with offerings and jewels and precious stones. And she sent unto him six thousand boys and girls, and all of them were born in the same (one) year, and all of them were born in one month, and all of them were born in one day, and all of them were born in one hour, and all of them were of the same stature, and all of them were of the same figure, and all of them were clad in purple garments And she wrote a letter and sent it to King Solomon by their hands. ‘From the fortress of Qitor to the land of Israel is seven years journey. Now through thy prayers and through thy petitions which I entreat of thee, I shall come to thee at the end of three years.’ And it came to pass at the end of three years that the Queen of Sheba came to King Solomon. And when King Solomon heard that the Queen of Sheba had come, he sent unto her Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, who was like the dawn that rises at morning-time, and resembled the Star of Splendour (Venus) which shines and stands firm among the stars, and was similar to the lily which stands by the water-courses. And when the Queen of Sheba saw Benaiah, son of Jehoiada, she alighted from the chariot. Benaiah, son of Jehoiada, answered and said to her, ‘Why hast thou alighted from thy chariot?’ She answered and said to him, ‘Art not thou King Solomon?’ He answered and said to her, ‘I am not King Solomon, but one of his servants who stand before him.’ And forthwith she turned her face behind her and uttered a parable to the nobles, ‘If the lion has not appeared to you, ye have seen his offspring, and if ye have not seen King Solomon ye have seen the beauty of a man who stands before him.’ And Benaiah, son of Jehoiada, brought her before the king. And when the king heard that she had come to him, he arose and went and sat in a crystal house. And when the Queen of Sheba saw that the king sat in a crystal house, she considered in her heart and said that the king sat in water, and she gathered up her garment that she might cross over, and he saw that she had hair on her legs. The king answered and said unto her, ‘Thy beauty is the beauty of women, and thy hair is the hair of a man; and hair is beautiful for a man, but for a woman it is disgraceful.’ The Queen of Sheba answered and said to him, ‘My lord the king, I shall utter to thee three parables, which if thou explain to me, I shall know that thou art a wise man, and if not, thou art as the rest of men.’ (Solomon solved all three problems.) And she said, ‘Blessed be the Lord thy God who delighted in thee to seat thee upon the throne of the kingdom to do judgment and justice.’ And she gave unto the king good gold and silver. ... And the king gave her all that she desired."

format_quote Originally Posted by мυѕℓιмαн 4 ℓιfє

Quran corrects the bible!, it teaches the truth about the Prophets :Abraham, Jesus, Moses, Lutt, etc (May the blessings of Allaah be on them).

Peace, мυѕℓιмαн 4 ℓιfє.

How would you prove this?

format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77

One way is to wait till the Day of Judgement and let the prophets testify themselves against the false claims attributed to them. OR even see if you're alive when Jesus (pbuh) descends to earth near the end of time and testifies against false claims attributed to him.

Be serious. It would be too late by then wouldn't it?

format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77

the other is to simply see if it makes sense that a prophet of god eg; Lut (peace be upon him) could commit incest with his daughters, whether it makes sense that a 'servant' of god eg; Jesus (peace be upon him) could become god himself etc etc

The Bible does not call Lut a prophet although the Qu'ran does. No blame is attached to Lot for what happened since his daughters deceived him. If you deny that the incident happened then you have the problem of explaining where the historical tribes the Ammonites and Moabites (descendants of Lut through his daughters) came from. Also, why does the name "Moab" mean "from the father"?

But I agree that it doesn't make sense to say that Jesus is God.

format_quote Originally Posted by Airforce

There are 10 cases of incest in the bible and out of those 10 cases , Its amazing how Muhammad(PBUH) didnt "copy" a single one of them into the Quran.

The Qur'an mentions Cain and Abel. Who did Cain marry?

format_quote Originally Posted by Zafran

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but there is also a disgareement on the pornographic and violent stuff - By the way doctrine come out of interpretation - The Jews and the christians themselves differ on the understanding of the OT and have very different doctrines. Even the teachings are different. The Jews believe that christians misrepresent the OT.

The bibles account of Solomon are seen to be fantasy and legends as well by many people so I'm not sure where your getting at.

It isn't reasonable to believe that Solomon never existed. But it does stretch credulity to imagine that he practiced magic on a grand scale and had armies of birds and spirit creatures in his court. Also the Israelites did not invade other nations just because they practiced idolatry (as Solomon is depicted as doing). They tended to keep within their own borders. And the description of the action of Solomon in sending a bird to make a declaration with threat of war, does not sound convincing. Nobody reading such a narrative today would take it seriously if it wasn't in the Qur'an.

format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77

no body reading the 'narrative' of Nuh's (pbuh) Ark or of Musa's (pbuh) staff etc would take these events seriously either, would they?

there are many things which might not be taken 'seriously' but these are miracles given to each prophet and they are not hard to believe in

btw Suleiman (pbuh) never practiced magic, his abilities were miracles given to him

Speaking for myself, I believe in both Nuh's Ark and the miracle of Musa's staff because both are recorded in the Qur'an and in the Bible. (I believe that there is additional geological evidence for the flood but lets leave that for now.) But the story of Solomon having control of jinns and talking with birds is only found in the Qur'an and the targums. The targums contain all manner of weird accounts and stories from Jewish legends and commentary and much of it is nonsense. But these stories go back a long way, dating to times before the rise of Islam. And it is understandable that critics would claim that such stories were related verbally to Muhammed and that he mistook them for scriptural accounts and included them into the Qur'an.

format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77

that was a permissable case, there were no other people available to marry from

you can read more here http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/255/

I guess then that Muslims don't believe that Abraham married his own half sister.

format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77

But again how reliable is the bible?

No prophet can sink this low even by accident - that they could get drunk and commit incest with their own daughter, Allah protects them from such evils and humilation. And he was married, was he not?

Well, I have found the Bible to be very reliable. The fact that it sometimes records unpleasant details testifies to the Bible's honesty -- nothing is hidden. The account of Lut and his daughters is important because it shows the relationship of the Israelites to Lut's descendants, the Ammonites and Moabites, and explains God's dealings with these nations. Ruth was a Moabite her descendants included King David and Jesus. Lut's wife was, of course, dead when the incident happened. Turned into a pillar of salt.

What point are you making here? The Bible doesn't say that Lut was a prophet so I have no reason to believe that he was. And the Qur'an doesn't deny that incest took place anyway. Does any hadith comment on this matter?

format_quote Originally Posted by aadil77

or that he is the son of god?

The Bible calls Jesus, Adam, angels and others sons of God. It also says that Adam was created from the dust of the ground. So obviously these "sons" were not begotten in the manner that humans beget children. But they were given life by God so in that sense he is their Father.