What would be the benefits of the Sharia/Khilafah ? I think non Muslims should suppor

Hi


The lack of freedoms that would entail from a Shariah system would by itself guarantee that most non-Muslims would not support any such transition. Moreover, you're asking people to abandon an economic system that has created the most successful nations ever in the history of Earth for one that doesn't even sound sensible on paper. I think you should go back to the drawing board while I go watch the Godfather again-something I wouldn't be able to get a hold of legally in a Shariah state. Gosh.

EDIT: nevermind.

While true Shariah is ideal for a nation that is 100% Muslim and could be workable in a nation that is majority Muslim. It would not be workable in a Nation that is non-Muslim as the greatest reason to adhere to Shariah is the knowledge of Allaah(swt) without the people believing in Allaah(swt) Shariah would be a tool misused by an evil dictator, placing attributes upon himself as being a superior leader. Fear of the strength of Allaah(swt) would be replaced by fear of a dictator and this would be a form of shirk as the populace would be obeying a man and not Allaah(swt)

format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx

The lack of freedoms that would entail from a Shariah system would by itself guarantee that most non-Muslims would not support any such transition.

Non-Muslims don't support sharia'a system for the simple reason, they don't want another Ottoman/Abbasaids/Ummayads/Fatmids empire.. no more no less than not wanting their enemies to become a super-power.. the reasons behind it are no more than the cheap slogans that are repeated in your ten o'clock news.. all hate, no substance!

Moreover, you're asking people to abandon an economic system that has created the most successful nations ever in the history of Earth for one that doesn't even sound sensible on paper.

Really.. I guess ponzi schemes can really give that impression.. let's see how well it works when you can no longer invade and subjugate people and steal their wealth for a handful or rich while the rest suffer!

I think you should go back to the drawing board while I go watch the Godfather again-something I wouldn't be able to get a hold of legally in a Shariah state. Gosh.

You should go back to the fifth grade and do introductory history all over again!

all the best

format_quote Originally Posted by Woodrow

While true Shariah is ideal for a nation that is 100% Muslim and could be workable in a nation that is majority Muslim

I don't agree that only Muslims benefit from Sharia'a. A fair and just system works for everyone.. these people who so oppose it are only driven by their hatred and fear. They've never given sharia'a a try to speak so vehemently against it.. At least I am glad as far as Egypt is concerned that they're shunning the west out and not taking handouts that come at the price of their desires, even when such financial aid is coming from the king of Qatar.. if Egypt would divide Mubarak's wealth on every individual every Egyptian would be a millionaire.

Frankly We need sharia and we need a war with Israel. The people weren't consulted with the so-called peace treaty, We've taken down their 500 million dollar Bar Lev line with water, and I think we can take the rest of them out by merely blowing in their direction!

format_quote Originally Posted by

You should go back to the fifth grade and do introductory history all over again!

lynx should take that seriously.

format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

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Non-Muslims don't support sharia'a system for the simple reason, they don't want another Ottoman/Abbasaids/Ummayads/Fatmids empire.. no more no less than not wanting their enemies to become a super-power.. the reasons behind it are no more than the cheap slogans that are repeated in your ten o'clock news.. all hate, no substance!

We're talking about Non-Muslims living under a Shariah system. It would be in their best interest to want such a system to be a super power IF they are living under it. If you are going to reply to one of my posts you should obviously read the OP, to which I was replying, in order to establish the context of the discussion.

Really.. I guess ponzi schemes can really give that impression.. let's see how well it works when you can no longer invade and subjugate people and steal their wealth for a handful or rich while the rest suffer!
You should go back to the fifth grade and do introductory history all over again!

all the best

Actually thanks to an economic phenomenon known as 'globalization' everyone else who is suffering will hopefully no longer suffer as the numbers work themselves out.

format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx

We're talking about Non-Muslims living under a Shariah system. It would be in their best interest to want such a system to be a super power IF they are living under it. If you are going to reply to one of my posts you should obviously read the OP, to which I was replying, in order to establish the context of the discussion.

Sharia'a has everyone's best interest. It is a system for ALL mankind not a select few! Until such a time you've studied sharia'a can you come and argue the non benefits to non Muslims.

Actually thanks to an economic phenomenon known as 'globalization' everyone else who is suffering will hopefully no longer suffer as the numbers work themselves out.

yeah, come let me know all about that when the rest of 80% of humanity have caught up with the select few monopolizing it!

http://www.globalissues.org/article/...acts-and-stats

every time you write, we get to know just the depth of your ignorance!

all the best

Peace,

Drinking alcohol, immoderately dressing, smoking, minor punishments for popular and serious crimes - and many other things are that which Non-Muslims can't really live without.

I agree with Woodrow on what he said. When a Non-Muslim reverts to Islam, they sacrifice alot, even though it's bad things, it's still something they are used to. Anyone without the intent of reverting will find it difficult to adjust to Shariah.

Maybe the Christians and Jews wouldn't mind it though, because when Muslims ruled the holy lands with a form of Shariah, all 3 lived peacefully together.

format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

Sharia'a has everyone's best interest. It is a system for ALL mankind not a select few! Until such a time you've studied sharia'a can you come and argue the non benefits to non Muslims.

Maybe you should ask the OP to rephrase his argument in a way where you might be able to understand what exactly he's saying; then, perhaps, you might be able to understand what I was saying.

yeah, come let me know all about that when the rest of 80% of humanity have caught up with the select few monopolizing it!

http://www.globalissues.org/article/...acts-and-stats


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If you think the gap between rich and poor is measure of whether or not an economy is successful or just then I highly recommend you become more informed.


@PERSEV

Drinking alcohol, immoderately dressing, smoking, minor punishments for popular and serious crimes - and many other things are that which Non-Muslims can't really live without.

The best thing about the most of the West is that non-muslims can do do all of that if they want to, and Muslims can NOT do any of that if they don't want to. Isn't freedom awesome?

format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx

Maybe you should ask the OP to rephrase his argument in a way where you might be able to understand what exactly he's saying; then, perhaps, you might be able to understand what I was saying.

You say a great deal of nonsense, and it is only too pleasurable to point out your folly.. You really deserve a PhD in the most inane conclusions drawn!

If you think the gap between rich and poor is measure of whether or not an economy is successful or just then I highly recommend you become more informed.

This is what you wrote..

format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx

'globalization' everyone else who is suffering will hopefully no longer suffer as the numbers work themselves out.

So come back and have this talk with this inflated bravado when that 'trickle down economy' has worked itself out!

all the best

format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx

Isn't freedom awesome?

I suppose in your world.

format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

I don't agree that only Muslims benefit from Sharia'a. A fair and just system works for everyone.

I agree.

In my opinion, the Sharia will reduce crime rate which will make life safer for everyone. There will be more structure to family life. Activities such as animal hunting for sport, pornography and gambling will be banned. As for economics I thought this might be interesting:

format_quote Originally Posted by Modern Economies and Sharia

Growing at an estimated 15 percent annually, Islamic banking and finance is a worldwide industry that modifies modern business practices to conform to the rules of sharia. Central to this field is riba, the charging or payment of interest, banned under Islamic law. Clever twists on standard financial products like credit cards, savings accounts, mortgages, loans, and even trust funds bypass the interest business model. A 2008 report by the General Council for Islamic Banks and Financial Institutions estimates the Islamic banking industry to stand at $442 billion. Even big name banks such as Citigroup, HSBC, and Deutsche Bank are developing Islamic banking sectors to cater to the demand. The industry is small in comparison to the global market, but may grow as some non-Muslims are turning to sharia-compliant services. Some of the ethically minded are also switching over to sharia-compliant investments. Businesses are required to avoid transactions related to forbidden things, such as weapons, alcohol, tobacco, gambling, pornography and pork, and investors are guaranteed that their money won't end up financing those industries. Governments are also looking to get a piece of the pie: Malaysia is the largest issuer of sharia-compliant bonds and Indonesia launched its own in January 2009.

Source: Council of Foreign Relations

format_quote Originally Posted by Perseveranze

Drinking alcohol, immoderately dressing, smoking, minor punishments for popular and serious crimes - and many other things are that which Non-Muslims can't really live without.

Unfortunately, some Muslims cannot live without them either...if the Sharia were to be introduced, I think it needs to be introduced step by step, for stability and change that people can cope with.

format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

You say a great deal of nonsense, and it is only too pleasurable to point out your folly.. You really deserve a PhD in the most inane conclusions drawn!


This is what you wrote..



So come back and have this talk with this inflated bravado when that 'trickle down economy' has worked itself out!

all the best

And like I said if you think a gap between the rich and poor says anything about an economy except that the rich get richer faster than the poor then you need to inform yourself more on the topic.

@GuestFellow

I suppose in your world.

Well you get no argument out of me that alcohol has very bad consequences for society; however, getting rid of alcohol is extremely difficult because the only way it will ever happen is if people stopped wanting it. Remember what happened last time alcohol was prohibited? AL CAPONE. Moreover, most people don't have their lives ruined due to alcohol so you'd have to justify to them why they should stop drinking (since in their viewpoint no one is forcing you to have that first drink or to go binge drinking etc). So unless you have a plausible strategy to actually eliminate the demand for alcohol suggesting this as an option is meaningless. Finally, you do realize that it will be more than alcohol that will be banned if Shariah were ever to be implemented, right? Like I said, technically I wouldn't be able to even purchase the Godfather trilogy if I really wanted to in a Shariah state.

In my opinion, the Sharia will reduce crime rate which will make life safer for everyone. There will be more structure to family life. Activities such as animal hunting for sport, pornography and gambling will be banned

I agree that there will be more structure to family life. Crime rate is actually a product of economic backgrounds, mostly so I don't know if Shariah would actually lower the crime rate in the projects. I don't know anything about animal hunting or how frequently it happens but pornography and gambling might be banned but will re-appear almost instantaneously in the black market along with booze.

As for economics I thought this might be interesting:

Let's assume the banking system outlined is *better* or at least as good as the current banking system used in the West (though keep in mind western countries all have differing banking systems). The best conclusion you can draw is that we ought to reform our current banking system with some of the stuff outlined (or even all of it); however, there would be no need to import Shariah in the entirety to achieve this reform and so this interesting tidbit becomes moot in the discussion.

Unfortunately, some Muslims cannot live without them either...if the Sharia were to be introduced, I think it needs to be introduced step by step, for stability and change that people can cope with.

This is true. But I think a better system for a place that consists of both devout Muslims, not-so-devout Muslims and non-muslims is where each group can choose how to live their lives. Thankfully in the West the devout Muslims I've known have been able to practice as freely as they want; the not-so-devout Muslims were free to indulge in their desires without hurting anyone else; and the non-Muslims have been able to enjoy whatever path they've chosen (or still choosing). I am not trying to say liberalism or w/e you want to call it is perfect; I just cannot fathom a system that works better for pluralistic societies than what we have in the west.

format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx

Well you get no argument out of me that alcohol has very bad consequences for society; however, getting rid of alcohol is extremely difficult because the only way it will ever happen is if people stopped wanting it. Remember what happened last time alcohol was prohibited?

I know. It will be very difficult because some people cannot live without it.

Moreover, most people don't have their lives ruined due to alcohol so you'd have to justify to them why they should stop drinking (since in their viewpoint no one is forcing you to have that first drink or to go binge drinking etc).

True, there are people that drink sensibly. From experience, however, I've seen drunk people behave inappropriately on the streets and harass those that drink perfectly normal. There are older people that are afraid to go outside at night due to drunkard students.

So I think we need to be balance the benefits of banning alcohol in western countries.

So unless you have a plausible strategy to actually eliminate the demand for alcohol suggesting this as an option is meaningless. Finally, you do realize that it will be more than alcohol that will be banned if Shariah were ever to be implemented, right?

It would not work if the majority want to drink alcohol. I understand that.

Like I said, technically I wouldn't be able to even purchase the Godfather trilogy if I really wanted to in a Shariah state.

Yes, some movies will be banned. I see nothing wrong with this. I know some people will be very upset.

I agree that there will be more structure to family life. Crime rate is actually a product of economic backgrounds, mostly so I don't know if Shariah would actually lower the crime rate in the projects. I don't know anything about animal hunting or how frequently it happens but pornography and gambling might be banned but will re-appear almost instantaneously in the black market along with booze.

Yes, gambling and pornography are more likely to come back.

Let's assume the banking system outlined is *better* or at least as good as the current banking system used in the West (though keep in mind western countries all have differing banking systems). The best conclusion you can draw is that we ought to reform our current banking system with some of the stuff outlined (or even all of it); however, there would be no need to import Shariah in the entirety to achieve this reform and so this interesting tidbit becomes moot in the discussion.

Okay.

This is true. But I think a better system for a place that consists of both devout Muslims, not-so-devout Muslims and non-muslims is where each group can choose how to live their lives. Thankfully in the West the devout Muslims I've known have been able to practice as freely as they want; the not-so-devout Muslims were free to indulge in their desires without hurting anyone else; and the non-Muslims have been able to enjoy whatever path they've chosen (or still choosing). I am not trying to say liberalism or w/e you want to call it is perfect; I just cannot fathom a system that works better for pluralistic societies than what we have in the west.

I do not mind living in a non-Sharia state, as long as I can practice Islam, I'm happy. I would not force a system on the public that they would not like.

I understand banning alcohol, pornography and gambling will be very difficult but not impossible. It could work by a step by step process but it will be very slow. Many people working in those industries will be forced to leave jobs and there are many other implications. The benefits, however, I think will be significant.

format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx

And like I said if you think a gap between the rich and poor says anything about an economy except that the rich get richer faster than the poor then you need to inform yourself more on the topic.

Perhaps in your smart words which are never altered as you dig yourself into a tiny rat hole how exactly will '''globalization end everyone' suffering and the numbers will work themselves out''?

Go ahead and amuse us some more pls.

format_quote Originally Posted by τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ

Perhaps in your smart words which are never altered as you dig yourself into a tiny rat hole how exactly will '''globalization end everyone' suffering and the numbers will work themselves out''?

Go ahead and amuse us some more pls.

"How exactly?" I didn't realize I was teaching a course on global economy. Maybe you should visit your local library instead of asking me something would require pages of writing. I promise the literature is plentiful.

This is true, Sharia law is great.

format_quote Originally Posted by Lynx

"How exactly?" I didn't realize I was teaching a course on global economy. Maybe you should visit your local library instead of asking me something would require pages of writing. I promise the literature is plentiful.

In other words you can't elucidate your point so that those pitiful minds that frequent the forum can basque in the credence of your words? Maybe you should do some research before writing empty meaningless words that have no basis in reality beyond the prettiness of their meaning.. the life buoy you threw yourself this time is deflated (as it often is)

all the best