I know women CAN’T be leader of a country, soldiers and judges. I know the most important role is being a mother and wife.
I want to know whether CAN be something other than the OBVIOUS (medicine, teacher etc).
I am asking this because I come across another respected scholar cursing women that speak in lectures, give talks etc. He was answering a question from a fellow Muslim who asked him what he thoughts were about women that “acted” like men by giving lectures.
To be honest, I rolled my eyes at the question and the answer.
And also I have come across members in this group saying women HAVE to do jobs that are the obvious jobs otherwise she is committing a sin and leaving her home unnecessary! So those of you (sisters) that have their own business, scientists, cleaners, receptionists, mathematicians etc are committing a sin! You can’t even give a lecture either (btw you dont have to raise you voice or use soft voice to give a talk)?
Now I obviously think that it is wrong! Now why am I seeing more and more people that have this mentality? Don’t they look at the bigger picture and see the consequences? Most women that work in hospital and have business in Saudi and most Middle East countries are NON Muslims!
I am beginning to feel like a militant feminist lol
All women in the world? Or all women in Islam - as the title of this thread suggests?
Look missy, you're not gonna pull the fast one on me and exit that swiftly, and this cornered mouse (nice avatar by the way) act is typical of someone who knows they are in waay over their heads.
The facts are still facts, something you wish to ignore in lieu of your own desire to pursue another life away from Islamic thought - yet giving it the title of Islamic role for women? What kind of hypocrisy is this?
So what if you've been married before, get married again...
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Urgh you still don't get it and post links that has been posted in this over and over again.
Where? you on drugs or something? the links I posted in my last post are no where else in this thread.
I don 't understand why women want to work? I mean, why? It's a mans world - do you really want to be the subject of male scrutiny in a male dominated environment? Or is that women like to complain and there's nothing better to complain about than your boss' advancements towards you, or your fellow male colleagues talking you down? I don't get it. No wait - it's deadly simple - gossip. That must be it...
akhi,
you speak of some idyllic utopia which unfortunately has little to do with the real world.. Most Muslim women I know have to work for the following reason and let me list those I know
1- her husband is disabled and she has seven kids unfortunately no degree beyond high school so she has to do menial work so for starters I stress education by the way they're both converts masha'Allah
2- one Pakistani lady her husband left her and with years of abuse doesn't even pay alimony to her kids, she worked as a pharmacist tech for pennies, put three of them through college masha'Allah
3- One polish convert her husband left her after obtaining his residency status for a Muslim woman from his own country, surprisingly wal7mdlillah she remained steadfast on Islam despite the obvious mal intent
4- widows my aunt was one
5- those who have never married, I have a cousin whose both parents died and her brother lives abroad and her younger sister is with three kids and lives away..
6- one whose father died, she actually is well educated but took a crappy job to pay the bills because her husband who could never hold down a job, came to the U.S on some 'green card' lottery was cheating on her while she was seven month pregnant and often time kicking her in the stomach so she'd abort and he'd not have to support some kids
7- many who are simply joining in the paycheck and I grew up in that kind of a household where both parents had to work to make ends meet.. so I find it somewhat unfortunate to create the scenario you've created above.. it is somewhat insulting..
I'd take a working woman over a housewife any day at least an educated housewife one can live with.. The only whining women I have encountered without exception are housewives who have never worked a day in their life.. You try getting up in the morning at 5, prepare your kids, head to work, put up with whatever abuse there's there come home make dinner and deal with an abusive husband see if there's much to complain or gossip about? contrast to a housewife whose will nit pick on ever last detail and are often very attention seeking. Sob7an Allah.. it is always these pampered sorts that expect everything else just for popping off kids I guess.. the rest of us are just mules who deserve the abuse left and right.....
Sister Bluebell - there are always exceptions... But the thread title does not talk about the exceptions to the rule. I'm not so rigid that I'm unreasonable, no.
So really, mute points ... Sorry sis, but I find her sweet106 has cornered herself on more than one occasion on this thread and is now just trying desperately to save some face. It's better if she just admits that she needs to understand the role of women in Islam, from authentic sources, and not from the "opinions" of mere laymen such as myself or any other forum member. We are not scholars, neither are we students of knowledge, or specialists on this subject.
If she just had exercised a little taqwa on this issue, she would have done some sound research instead of coming here and making a circus of herself.
Example?
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
All muslim* happy now?
NO! I don't have to get married again!
Other people have posted these sites!
Please you must be so **** never have to lift again around house, you already or anticipating gettig a maid? Or shall I say wife?
Man you got someone or prospect to kiss your toe *sacrasm off*
I don 't understand why women want to work? I mean, why? It's a mans world - do you really want to be the subject of male scrutiny in a male dominated environment? Or is that women like to complain and there's nothing better to complain about than your boss' advancements towards you, or your fellow male colleagues talking you down? I don't get it.
Personally, I really don't mind staying away from the work environment being able to raise a family of my own. That sounds like a great deal to me. To let a husband deal with the stress at work and dealing with silly people while I stay at home, playing with the children, cleaning up, finding cool new recipes to try, teaching the kids things, taking the kids to the park, planning family vacations, doing puzzles and whatever else. I've worked enough to know that it is annoying and stressful--especially when it's work that you don't really enjoy.
But, as a revert sister living in the West this is something that I might have to put off. I am 22. When I went to college I had to take out student loans that I have to pay back. That was something that wasn't seen as a big deal before I came to Islam but now that I am a Muslim, I can't take those years of education back and I am obligated to repay what I owe. Because of this I am going to have to work until that debt is paid off in full and the faster this can happen, the happier I will be. After that debt is paid off, I seriously wouldn't mind no longer working and settling more into that role of a wife and mother. Secondly, as a revert sister I don't currently have a mahram to go through the proper channels right now to get married in the right way and having a non-Muslim family, sitting at home and not working is not an option for me as that will upset my parents and I'd be seen as lazy to do this. I personally don't mind doing work that is interesting to me, like research and development, or doing dawah projects here and there, starting organizations to help out the Muslim community, but beyond that, the fast-paced corporate world I really want no part of. But right now it's something that I have to do to get my finances together and start my own life. I can't depend on a man to do that for me as marriage isn't exactly something that I can pursue right away so I really need to get everything in order so I can support myself and live my life. Not going to stop that just because I don't have a man to do it for me. The world goes on. Sometimes, women have to work.
The complex relationship between women and Islam is defined by Islamic texts, the history and culture of the Muslim world. The Qur'an states that both men and women are equal, but also, as in 4:34, that "Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard."
The prophet pbuh said that if it wasn't classed as shirk, he'd allow the women to bow/prstrate to their husbands... but the women these days? pfft... get off your high horses...
...and the men? get humble already. Arguing with a woman does not make you more of a man.
Thread question answered. Close thread... it's getting ugly.
Scimi
As you can see Sister Bluebell, I already played that card, but she is wanting to get her kicks, even using profane language like **** whatever that is supposed to be.
Alhamdulillah, I know my place as a man, but she thinks she is a man.
Akhi,
we're not living in a khilafah where we have such luxuries and even under such an idyllic state, Hind took money from Beyt Al-Mal to start her own business.. the reality is that the exception is the rule now...
I mean who wouldn't love to stay in their palatial home and be showered with gifts be surrounded by children have their girlfriends over for tea and to discuss philosophical things and then have a dotting husband at the end of the day? Life isn't like that and it is triple hard for a Muslim woman if you can imagine the abuse she encounters facing all sorts of stereo types..
Personally, I really don't mind staying away from the work environment being able to raise a family of my own. That sounds like a great deal to me. To let a husband deal with the stress at work and dealing with silly people while I stay at home, playing with the children, cleaning up, finding cool new recipes to try, teaching the kids things, taking the kids to the park, planning family vacations, doing puzzles and whatever else. I've worked enough to know that it is annoying and stressful--especially when it's work that you don't really enjoy.
But, as a revert sister living in the West this is something that I might have to put off. I am 22. When I went to college I had to take out student loans that I have to pay back. That was something that wasn't seen as a big deal before I came to Islam but now that I am a Muslim, I can't take those years of education back and I am obligated to repay what I owe. Because of this I am going to have to work until that debt is paid off in full and the faster this can happen, the happier I will be. After that debt is paid off, I seriously wouldn't mind no longer working and settling more into that role of a wife and mother. Secondly, as a revert sister I don't currently have a mahram to go through the proper channels right now to get married in the right way and having a non-Muslim family, sitting at home and not working is not an option for me as that will upset my parents and I'd be seen as lazy to do this. I personally don't mind doing work that is interesting to me, like research and development, or doing dawah projects here and there, starting organizations to help out the Muslim community, but beyond that, the fast-paced corporate world I really want no part of. But right now it's something that I have to do to get my finances together and start my own life. I can't depend on a man to do that for me as marriage isn't exactly something that I can pursue right away so I really need to get everything in order so I can support myself and live my life. Not going to stop that just because I don't have a man to do it for me. The world goes on. Sometimes, women have to work.
See my point?
As for Sweet106 saying this:
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
you already or anticipating gettig a maid? Or shall I say wife?
let me ask you Sweet106, can you call your sister Apprender a maid for wanting to marry now too? get real. You are a compromised Muslim.
As you can see Sister Bluebell, I already played that card, but she is wanting to get her kicks,
I think you're both lovely people and I think you know when it is a subject of contention it can bring out the worst in one another and then devils just ignite it and it really need not be this way... 41:34] [RECITE]
As you can see Sister Bluebell, I already played that card, but she is wanting to get her kicks, even using profane language like **** whatever that is supposed to be.
Alhamdulillah, I know my place as a man, but she thinks she is a man.
Scimi
I use the word d.a.m.n
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one.." [Bukhaari].
the reality is that the exception is the rule now...
The Quran is for all time, and what Allah has ordained in it is to apply til the end of time. Exception to the rule or no. Marriage is a benefit and a mercy to mankind.
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
I don't care if this sister wants to marry!
So why start this thread then? Do you only care about yourself? What could you possibly mean? You are confused... I will keep you in my duas
Scimi
EDIT: Sister sweet106, download the PDF links i gave you on the previous page, seriously, they answer your question.
Of course sisters that never married would to be marry! Heck even non Muslim wants to get married.
Btw in future don't post female scientist if you believe our role is just mother and wife!
And if you were in my position you, you wouldn't give up your kid to marry! Read up on custody of child and I don't want to risk a "obeying" short end of the stick again!
The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: "Help your brother, whether he is an oppressor or he is an oppressed one.." [Bukhaari].
For your information, I am planning to marry a divorced woman with a five year old child.
Not all men are the same, and you don't have to give up your child... as you can see, I am living proof. Also, my intended wife, is a member on this forum - cosmicintuition is her username... And I bet if she saw your posts, she'd have you for breakfast.
As for the "female scientist" you mention, so you even know anything about Mariam? Or are you just putting that comment out there to try and stump me? Coz I tell you this, you';re looking to get cornered all over again.
next time do your homework... she wasnt a scientist.
format_quote Originally Posted by sweet106
Btw in future don't post female scientist if you believe our role is just mother and wife!
format_quote Originally Posted by Scimitar
Women can become Dr's Lawyers and whatever they like, as long as they fulfil their primary duty FIRST - to be a wife and a mother, meaning, raise the children and manage the home.
You clearly have a selective memory... eat more almonds.
Scimi
EDIT: Here sister sweet106, My fiance and I made this vid a few weeks back, maybe it will be of benefit to you. If Allah wills it.
Do my homework? Stop embarrassing yourself sister - You clearly do not know your Islamic history or even what you are talking about, she did not invent the astrolabe, she made exquisite versions of the astrolabe - and learnt the art from her father... the astrolabe was first made around the year 150bc, in the hellenistic period, Pre Islam and even pre Christianity... give yourself a facepalm.
Scimi
EDIT: please come with more rebuttals, I'm gonna school you so you learn.
I think maybe sometimes with marriage some men put culture over Islam and it becomes an issue where the man wants a wife to be a slave to him when really the woman should only be a slave to Allah (swt) and nothing else. That part is unfortunate and I admit before coming to Islam I didn't want to get married as a Muslim either because I had that perception...
With that said, I don't believe that all men think this way and I believe Allah (swt) will bring me a husband who doesn't treat me as his personal slave but will see me as his other half. Good to do thorough research on a potential spouse before tying the knot. I'm OCD about cleanliness and I expect a future husband to clean up after himself too (or else ) as cleanliness is also apart of this deen too. Problems are inevitable but misery is optional.
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[RECITE]
) as cleanliness is also apart of this deen too. Problems are inevitable but misery is optional.
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