Debates

how old are you if I may ask? You sound sensible.


I use to get involved in debates before through no fault of my own, I use to get dragged into them.


But I am terrible at debating so I prefer to just stay out of it lol

^ Asslamu Aliakum,


I'm 20 years old.

I have seen it on this forum. Some members/people simply do not know how to prove something. When they do present evidence, especially when it requires technical knowledge to understand it, they expect the lay member to develop the techniques to interpret the evidence (which may take years of studying/training) and want them to accept their arguments.

It's like me presenting this piece of Act of Parliament to you and expecting you to understand all of it in a few minutes.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/46/contents

Some members/people don't like it when someone disagrees with them and use insults. This gives an insight to their mentality, especially when they resort to rhetoric. They don't like being wrong.

I personally don't mind being wrong. Not afraid to admit it.

I think if members have a view, try to explain it as much as possible and with evidence. If you have no evidence, then say so and not try to force other people to believe it. It's so simple, but difficult to implement in practice.

^ I am in complete agreement

Asalaamu Alaikum,

Whenever you make a claim, back it up, not just with evidence but also with scholarship quotations. We're definitely laymen, and we aren't necessarily qualified to look at a primary source and come to a conclusion, especially in matters related to say; Islam, as you need some deep Classical Arabic knowledge to make any personal judgements.

That's why, if you present an argument, you should try to give not just the evidence, but also quotations from experts who are qualified/knowledgeable to make such statements to strengthen and validate your argument. In such a position, you really have a strong foundation in the debate and unless the opposition can do the same with equally credible sources, then it's likely you're point will remain unchallenged.

The only thing you need to look out for after that is to make sure you haven't quoted anything out of context and that your sources are credible (like no dodgy scholars/academics).

Should also be noted that in Islam, unless you're a scholar, your opinion on a matter is invalid, and thus you always need a credible scholarly interpretation to bring about your point on most matters the religion. You'll find even most western academics, when talking about Islam, will always try to back a point up with some classical scholar understanding, since they themselves aren't Islamic scholars.

format_quote Originally Posted by Perseveranze

Asalaamu Alaikum,

Whenever you make a claim, back it up, not just with evidence but also with scholarship quotations. We're definitely laymen, and we aren't necessarily qualified to look at a primary source and come to a conclusion, especially in matters related to say; Islam, as you need some deep Classical Arabic knowledge to make any personal judgements.

That's why, if you present an argument, you should try to give not just the evidence, but also quotations from experts who are qualified/knowledgeable to make such statements to strengthen and validate your argument. In such a position, you really have a strong foundation in the debate and unless the opposition can do the same with equally credible sources, then it's likely you're point will remain unchallenged.

The only thing you need to look out for after that is to make sure you haven't quoted anything out of context and that your sources are credible (like no dodgy scholars/academics).

These experts...how do we know who is qualified/knowledgeable? Not turning this topic into a debate, but I want to see how you respond.

format_quote Originally Posted by Tragic Typos

These experts...how do we know who is qualified/knowledgeable? Not turning this topic into a debate, but I want to see how you respond.

Asalaamu Alaikum,

This requires a little extra research, but you look at their credentials, look at their wiki pages (if they have one, as this helps a lot). Their past books and potential reviews on it.

Another thing I personally look out for is referencing. I know western Academics like Montgomery Watt, is probably the most referenced author amongst the Academic circles in regards to Islamic studies. (Google scholar can help with this). So they must have some form of credibility if they're referenced by many other Academia.

Same with Islamic scholars, though it's a bit different. With Islamic scholars you look at the ijma (consensus) of the Scholars, what the majority have said regarding a matter is likely to be the correct answer, since throughout history, if different scholars see the same sources and come to the same conclusions, it does strengthen a certain view. It should also be kept in mind that Classical Scholars in Islam are considered a much more reliable reference source than modern day scholars.

Its a sticky situation. In the one hand we want to convey what we believe to be the truth with a good backing, but on the other hand we are NOT qualified to properly form valid arguments.

The most we can do is say "so and so said such and such" and to be honest.... I am satisfied with that...