Offence

[Mistrique]

I seems to be a recurring staple in newspapers etc here that the Muslim world is always "deeply offended" by blasphemous depictions of their religion.
I don't want to talk about that specifically I actually would like today to speak to you about Offence itself.
I would like to hear your opinions and interpretations on Offence and being offended itself.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

This reminds me very much of secondary school from when I was at the young age of 12 years old.

I kid you not, even at that age other similarly aged kids where constantly asking me what would they have to say and do to offend me because their sensibilities were completely different.


I take offence at that which insults or demeans what I hold dear. As for when I do take offence, I wont take any action unless the offence has the potential to cause some sort of harm wether it be physical, psychological or even that which harms society (I'm sure you understand what I mean by that)

The most recent action I have taken is to protest at central london. And I voice my opinion to those around me.

[Mistrique]

I kid you not, even at that age other similarly aged kids where constantly asking me what would they have to say and do to offend me because their sensibilities were completely different.

Yes. I so know what you mean in secondary school whenever foreign students would join us (because foreign people were a novelty back then) we would always ask them stuff like this.

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ aah so you were one of them !

Well, I got to tell you, some of the questions in and of themselves were quite offensive. Why? Because I grew up in a home were thoughts were restricted if deemed to be negative or impure. IE of adult nature...

[Mistrique]

some of the questions in and of themselves were quite offensive

I dont understand sorry

[IbnAbdulHakim]

hmm allow me to use an example.

I was once asked what would have to be said of my mother to make me angry...

He didnt insult my mother. But he asked about it, the very thought that entered his head was enough to offend me. Why? Because it conjures up a bad image of someone dear to me. or am i too sensitive?

[Mistrique]

I was once asked what would have to be said of my mother to make me angry...

Oh right. Yeah I was asked stuff a lot like that in school too.

or am i too sensitive?

Possibly. I find it more annoying than offensive.

[Hulk]

Maybe if you have the time you can watch this clip, which might give you a better understanding from a muslim's perspective I hope!

[Mustafa2012]

Offense is taken when a person deliberately says or does something to another person that insults their values, beliefs, culture, belief or ethnicity.

This is usually more so when the person committing the offensive act knows that it is offensive but yet still does it anyway either to antagonize the person/group or because they have a superiority complex.

[czgibson]

Greetings,

If someone offends you and you react to it in a conspicuous way, it's more likely that it will happen again. If you just ignore them, it's less likely to happen again.

If someone makes baseless accusations against my mother in conversation, I don't get upset about it. I know that such talk is not to be taken seriously.

Peace

[جوري]

I don't want to talk about that specifically I actually would like today to speak to you about Offence itself.

Offense is simply a depravity and a violation of the rights of others. Those who do it know they're doing it, and do it on purpose so I am not sure why they feign innocence or some over night law they passed to make it ok to be an anus hole.
You'll find that what you find offensive others find offensive as well.
I'll reference you to this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/clarific...ml#post1542420
&
Feigning Innocence: The Politics of Demonization
&
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/...-syndrome.html

and several others. You can see a clear line of demarcation here, wouldn't you agree? when it comes to the west it is a no go zone, when it comes to Muslims, it is an everything goes zone.

I also don't agree with if you ignore the trolls they'll go away. History has shown otherwise. Ultimately they do it to serve their own ends, but it won't last long, history has also shown that Islam is the religion of conqueror and conquered alike!
So it is just a matter of time before the barking dogs are eliminated & whimpering!

best,

[Muwaahid]

I think one of the speific principles that are inculcated in the Muslims if that of honoring and respecting Allah and His Messenger [sallallahu alayhi wa sallam] you see Islam is not a religion based upon a particular figure, like Christianity [related to Christ] nor Judaism [related to the tribe of Judah] So what we find in the bible as for the depictions of the prophets and messengers as being drunks, or fornicators, or exposing their private parts we do not affirm that in Islam. So there is no modesty nor respecting of the prophets and messengers. In Islam we honor Allah and His Messenger [alayhi sal;am] so naturally the muslims will get upset when people purposely insult Islam and Allah or his prophet[alayhi salam]. Even those who are given to disobedience to Allah you will find them upset. All Freedoms need to be gauged or restricted to accountability, Before any action or statement the consequences has to be weighed. This is why the Muslims have been conditionally commanded when the prophet[alayhi salam] said, "whoever believes in Allah and the last day, let him say what is good or remain silent.
" Look at the wisdom of the messenger of Allah [alayhi salam] listen, sign of Imaan [faith], faith in what? Allah and the Last day! Meaning accountability, responsibility, the terror of a great day, let him say that which is good, be rewarded for the good things they say or remain quiet! Silence is better than harmful speech because we lighten our reckoning and perhaps this maybe why Luqmaan [alayhi salam] mentioned, "If speaking is from Silver [in terms of its value] then remaining silent is from GOLD." Look at the value of silence. Imagine not uttering anything except that you seek Allah's pleasure in it oor its a form of worship. How great is silence? How great is thinking before we speak? Considering our words like, wiill my statement bring about more benfit than harm? If so speak but if my speech brings about more evil than good and remain silent. Although there were threads questioning if freedom speeh has a basis in Islam, I am glad that it is not. And Allah knows best

[aamirsaab]

Call me old fashion but I grew up with proper manners and respect. Treat people with respect. Turn the other cheek. Do unto others as you would do unto yourself, speak a good word or remain silent. All good traditional values that I still try and hold on to today.

But something happened to the world though - I don't know when or how exactly, but something really bad happened. All of a sudden, people forgot these values. Now everyone jumps on freedom of speech in order to justify hate, vitriol, bigotry, slander, ignorance. I'm not talking about anti-religious sentiments here either ---> go search Rebecca Black, Justin Bieber or any remotely 'famous' person; look at the amount of hate speech they have received on twitter, the news etc. It's friggin' horrible.

Yes of course you can criticise someone's actions. But does that give you a free pass to insult them? To hurt them emotionally? Words are very useful tools but they are also very powerful - they can hurt people very much, very easily.

[Mistrique]

Greetings,


If someone makes baseless accusations against my mother in conversation, I don't get upset about it. I know that such talk is not to be taken seriously.

Peace

This should play on a loop everywhere.

I also don't agree with if you ignore the trolls they'll go away. History has shown otherwise. Ultimately they do it to serve their own ends, but it won't last long, history has also shown that Islam is the religion of conqueror and conquered alike!
So it is just a matter of time before the barking dogs are eliminated & whimpering!

That's a rather ominous thing to say.

Call me old fashion but I grew up with proper manners and respect. Treat people with respect. Turn the other cheek. Do unto others as you would do unto yourself, speak a good word or remain silent. All good traditional values that I still try and hold on to today.

But something happened to the world though - I don't know when or how exactly, but something really bad happened. All of a sudden, people forgot these values. Now everyone jumps on freedom of speech in order to justify hate, vitriol, bigotry, slander, ignorance. I'm not talking about anti-religious sentiments here either ---> go search Rebecca Black, Justin Bieber or any remotely 'famous' person; look at the amount of hate speech they have received on twitter, the news etc. It's friggin' horrible.

That is absurd. I hate it when old people shout at me and say "BACK IN MY DAY YOUNG PEOPLE RESPECTED THEIR ELDERS!" or "BACK IN MY DAY THINGS WERE BETTER!" well lets see back in the "Old days" we had things like world war one and two we had Hitler Stalin Mao we had the holocaust we had the Russian purges we had the great leap forward. "Back in my day people had respect" yes because its easy to have respect when you are bombing the crap out of Europe.
You say that it is horrible that people say nasty things about Justin Bieber? well I would say that a few nasty things said about Justin Bieber is a marked improvement on the mass genocide that was so common in the past.
Which shows more respect to Justin Bieber? Gassing him? or insulting him?
--
Allow me to state my position on this. To be insulted and to take offense are two different things. To be insulted is for someone to say t you that your mother is fat or something and to be offended is a feeling that you act upon as a result of being insulted.
Therefore we can say that offense is an irrational reaction to a stimulus (insult). I believe that it shows a great strength of character for someone not to be offended. I believe that to train oneself to not react to an insult is something that takes a lot of time and I have not many people who can be totally honest when they say that they can not be offended and I believe that that is something everyone should strive for.
Because without offense there is no anger.
Without anger there is no violence.
Without Violence there is peace.

[جوري]

That's a rather ominous thing to say.

by way of good omen in shaa Allah..

best,

[aamirsaab]

...
That is absurd. I hate it when old people shout at me and say "BACK IN MY DAY YOUNG PEOPLE RESPECTED THEIR ELDERS!" or "BACK IN MY DAY THINGS WERE BETTER!" well lets see back in the "Old days" we had things like world war one and two we had Hitler Stalin Mao we had the holocaust we had the Russian purges we had the great leap forward. "Back in my day people had respect" yes because its easy to have respect when you are bombing the crap out of Europe.

1. I'm 25 - back in the day for me wasn't all that long ago.
2. We have plenty of genocidal cases going on today, but this isn't the issue.
3. Get off my lawn.

You say that it is horrible that people say nasty things about Justin Bieber? well I would say that a few nasty things said about Justin Bieber is a marked improvement on the mass genocide that was so common in the past.

I can point at least 3 seperate cases where the bold is happening today, so that's a bad argument. The only difference today is people champion a legitimate and legal right to insult people.

Which shows more respect to Justin Bieber? Gassing him? or insulting him?

Neither of them show ANY respect...what the heck kind of example is this?

Allow me to state my position on this. To be insulted and to take offense are two different things. To be insulted is for someone to say t you that your mother is fat or something and to be offended is a feeling that you act upon as a result of being insulted.
Therefore we can say that offense is an irrational reaction to a stimulus (insult). I believe that it shows a great strength of character for someone not to be offended. I believe that to train oneself to not react to an insult is something that takes a lot of time and I have not many people who can be totally honest when they say that they can not be offended and I believe that that is something everyone should strive for.
Because without offense there is no anger.
Without anger there is no violence.
Without Violence there is peace.

None of that make it ok to insult or (deliberately) offend. This is partly what I was talking about: everyone thinks oh you should just take it on the chin regardless of the remark. It's not and never will be - it can and has lead to people becoming so depressed they end up comitting suicide. This is not something that is good for anyone...

[Mistrique]

None of that make it ok to insult or (deliberately) offend

I never said it was. Besides you are missing my point. I say that to insult and to offend are two different things. It is your own choice to be offended or not. You should try it you will live longer.

[aamirsaab]

I never said it was. Besides you are missing my point. I say that to insult and to offend are two different things. It is your own choice to be offended or not. You should try it you will live longer.

Now you are making the assumption that I am offended. I'm not.

Whilst I agree it is something you have to learn to cope generally in life, I don't think it is right to deliberately set out to offend someone and then have the nerve to cry "freedom of speech" (or words to that effect) when that someone says stop because they find it offensive. Hence my initial point that "back in my day" we wouldn't even be setting out to offend someone in the first place.

[Mistrique]

Now you are making the assumption that I am offended. I'm not.

I should have been more clear I meant in general not just now.

Whilst I agree it is something you have to learn to cope generally in life, I don't think it is right to deliberately set out to offend someone and then have the nerve to cry "freedom of speech" (or words to that effect) when that someone says stop because they find it offensive. Hence my initial point that "back in my day" we wouldn't even be setting out to offend someone in the first place.

I agree that only assholes set out to offend someone but to say that you must cancel out freedom of speech when someone says I am offended it a dreadful idea.
Just remember that even the most bigoted, hateful tyrant deserves his say and deserves to be heard. just how you have the same right. Just as I have the same right.

[aamirsaab]

...
I agree that only assholes set out to offend someone but to say that you must cancel out freedom of speech when someone says I am offended it a dreadful idea.

I'm not saying freedom of speech should be cancelled.

Just remember that even the most bigoted, hateful tyrant deserves his say and deserves to be heard. just how you have the same right. Just as I have the same right.

Again, I'm not saying such a person isn't allowed to say hateful things. I'm saying based on good ol' fashion tradition, respect and common decency for your brother and sister in humanity, they shouldn't (and they wouldn't if those values were still in place)