Caliphate

format_quote Originally Posted by greenhill

I will read his tafseer, the list of things to read is building up.... You guys will know why I've disappeared for a few days... Ha ha.

Ibn Kathir's explanation of verse 24:55 took me five minutes to read. There isn't much to absorb from it. If you've read up on the Caliphate before and the relevant Ahadith, then you'll easily see what point he is making.

Besides this, I remember in the story of Adam (as) in Surha Al Baqarah Ibn Kathir explaiend Caliphate there briefly as well. I forgot to mention that. It should be the verse where Allah says Adam (as) was a Khalifah in the earth.

I hope everyone realizes that a Caliphate does not start because the Muslims try to make one. Only Allah installs a Caliph. This is a God-given appointment. The Mahdi (as) would be prepared by Allah in one night, and Isa (as) would receive revelations from Allah as to what he is to do when he returns. So I hope no one comes up with the delusional idea that we appoint Caliphs ourselves. After all, they are successors, not starters of a leadership. That is why they must start again from the Mahdi (as).

format_quote Originally Posted by greenhill

On the credit and funding part, I am sure there is no difference in the need, whether muslim or not, but, what happens next is where the differentiation occurs. Generally, the lender has to take the risk. If the business goes belly up, the lender cannot expect compensation. (I am not talking about the morals of the borrower here). The lender can only expect to get back his loan if the borrower does well enough to pay him back. Even then, it must be the amount borrowed, not anything more unless the borrower insists to share his profits with the lender. Here it reinforces the belief that what you own, your wealth etc, is an amanah loaned to you by Allah. He can take it back from you anytime. So do good things, and expect nothing in return. That is a very hard concept in this day and age.

So if the best result you can get is to gain back exactly what you gave, and there's a risk of getting back less or nothing, how do you suggest convincing anyone to provide anyone else credit?

What you are suggesting is, in essence, to run an entire financial system on philantrophy. If it turns out that funding isn't forthcoming, what will you do? Keep insisting that your system is perfect and that the problem is with sinful people?

format_quote Originally Posted by العنود

Where does it say it is a 'God given appointment'? A caliphate isn't a theology, it isn't a papacy and there's no need to wait for a mahdi to start at all, just takes will and basic understanding and lack of division.

Read:
24:55 Allah has promised, to those among you who believe and work righteous deeds, that He will, of a surety, grant them in the land, inheritance (of power), as He granted it to those before them; that He will establish in authority their religion - the one which He has chosen for them; and that He will change (their state), after the fear in which they (lived), to one of security and peace: 'They will worship Me (alone) and not associate aught with Me. 'If any do reject Faith after this, they are rebellious and wicked.

And read Tafsir Ibn Kathir under it.

format_quote Originally Posted by العنود

I'd like to know how you personally inferred that no caliphate can be established without mahdi or at the hands of Muslims or that it is some sort of theological institution that's 'God appointed'?

One only needs to read the Hadith:

"There will be Prophethood for as long as Allah wills it to be, then He will remove it when He wills, then there will be Khilafah on the Prophetic method and it will be for as long as Allah wills, then He will remove it when He wills, then there will be biting Kingship for as long as Allah Wills, then He will remove it when He wills, then there will be oppressive kingship for as long as Allah wills, then he will remove it when He wills, and then there will be Khilafah upon the Prophetic method" and then he remained silent (Ahmed)

So Caliphate is removed and is then re-instituted. In the Tafsir Ibn Kathir he writes that:

(But whoever disbelieved after this, they are the rebellious.) means, `whoever then stops obeying Me after that, has stopped obeying the command of his Lord, and that is a great sin.' The Companions -- may Allah be pleased with them -- were the most committed of people after the Prophet to the commands of Allah and the most obedient to Allah. Their victories were in accordance with their level of commitment. They caused the Word of Allah to prevail in the east and the west, and Allah supported them so much that they governed all the people and all the lands. When the people subsequently fell short in their commitment to some of the commandments, their strength and victory fell short accordingly, but it is confirmed through more than one route in the Two Sahihs that the Messenger of Allah said:
(There will remain a group of my Ummah adhering to the truth, and those who forsake them or oppose them will not harm them until the Day of Resurrection. ) According to another report:
(.. until the command of Allah comes to pass and they are like that.) According to another report:
(... until they fight the Dajjal.) According to another report:
(... until `Isa bin Maryam comes down and they are prevailing.) All of these reports are Sahih, and there is no contradiction between them.


So the Caliphate ends, and then it returns once again. It would have to be sometime after Isa (as) descends. What else would the Prophetic example (nubuwwat) mean? It clearly indicates that it would be re-instated by someone who would have contact with the unseen (Allah).

And have you not read verse 24:55? It says clearly that Allah grants the believers the succession and inheritance in the land, not the believers themselves. Obviously it is something God-given. And it would be through the Mahdi (as) because that would be when Islam becomes victorious again and the Muslims begin to follow Islam as it should be followed. There is no other time in the future when Caliphate would be re-established except for that. It is counter-intuitive to accept things that way.

You are very right. Or it could also mean that overnight, there would come someone to guide the Muslims, and the Muslims would find a major change. But not all of them, since this overall change would take time.

Look at the example of the Holy Prophet (saw) and all of the other Prophets. There were those who were changed overnight, and many others who did not change. It took time to get everyone else to follow. This is a possibility as well. Remember, Allah guides everyone not people guiding themselves. This change could well be sparked by Allah just as it has been done in the past. It takes a very righteous individual to change people. That good company itself would make those around him become new and full of vigor with the light of faith in them.

I agree that it is not overnight though. These changes take time. I just think there is another way in which it is possible as well. And as always, Allah knows best in the end.

M.I.A. - I am not so sure what you are trying to say. But "so why would i need a caliphate if i believe in a god?" and if the God is Allah, it would be best to live in a land where they practice the sunnah and is guided by the Quran.


Futuwwa - "So if the best result you can get is to gain back exactly what you gave, and there's a risk of getting back less or nothing, how do you suggest convincing anyone to provide anyone else credit?

What you are suggesting is, in essence, to run an entire financial system on philantrophy. If it turns out that funding isn't forthcoming, what will you do? Keep insisting that your system is perfect and that the problem is with sinful people?"

Apologies for the misunderstanding. No, it is not what I am suggesting - to run the system on philanthropy. Things are very different now. We are now marketing 'wants' as opposed to 'needs' and even then, they are trying to make everything a 'need' now. Commerce is cut throat and ethical practice is pretty much out of the window in most cases. And when the economic climate takes a downturn, it's the needs that stays stable in demand and the 'wants' take a tumble.

The essence of Islam is about 'moderation'. Hence pure business thoughts for huge profits and for luxuries then kinds of strays from the overall concept. So I guess growth will be slower, and if credit cannot be obtain to start a business, perhaps they may have to take a look at the downscaling it a bit or do other things, seek employment, etc. I have no real answers for this as we are looking at modern financial/commercial system and trying to compare it to a muslim moderation approach. And no again, it is NOT my system, and I already said that we are not discussing about the morals of the borrower here.

There are wide ranging 'codes' of conduct in enterprise under islam for example, we should not leave our lands idle, and if cannot work it, we should allow his 'brother' to cultivate it so the distribution of wealth does happen. Rather than the 'hog' everything we can of the current day style. Again, this is very brief. Hope you get my 'gist'.

Peace

Thank you M.I.A, deep thoughts but I don't see it within the context of the thread.

Multiculturalism is the world we live in. I like too!

No, never really questioned where do angels exist or the Jinns. All I know is that they do exist.

There will be another Khalif or Congress of Khalif which has same power of Khalif has.