Hadeeth about dua that can change Qadr

yes, this question by ummit did affect me negatively. I was hopeful about qadr until i ran across this thread on the platform. Better to stop using it. Thankyou wayfarer91 you understood where I am coming from. I am not questioning God's power, rather I am complaining to Him and He knows that my conscious is clear
Allah bless you

format_quote Originally Posted by RisingLight

Its complicated,but Qadr and rizq are some topics which are not connected only to humans.As we know in Lahul-Mahfudh it is written about all creation,not only humans,so the first thing we should do is to know that we cant fully understand it.Its beyond our mind perception.

I wanna give a simple example of how I understand all this,and in shaa Allah it will help you understand it better.
Imagine there is a guy who is asking everybody for money because he has a problem.Word spreads and you know that he tells everybody the same thing and tells everybody the same.One day he calls you telling you the same thing and asking to meet up.You know 100% he will ask for money,and you have decided long ago that if he asks you,you will give him.So you write it down that at 2 oclock I will meet this guy and he will ask me for money and I will give him.But you go and meet him and wait until he asks you for it and then you give him the money,otherwise you don’t.
So Lahul-Mahfud is like what you wrote,the future is already written there.Allah already knows everything,how He knows all this we cant comprehend cuz we cant comprehend time,its beyond our physical senses.
And the Qadr is like the money youd give this guy.You already planned to give him the money,yet he has to ask you for it.

Allahu Alem, but don’t dwell too much into these things are beyond the perception of our limited mind and it only leads to confusion.




ohh pure Tawheed there ma shaa Allah !!!

Wow, that is a really good example. Thank you very much

format_quote Originally Posted by wayfarer91

I read a story about Moosa, where a woman came to him and requested him to ask Allah to grant her a child. Moosa went to Allah and requested on the woman's behalf. But Allah told Moosa that it has been decreed that she won't have a child. Few weeks later the woman again came to Moosa and asked him to request Allah to grant her a child, which moosa did, and Allah responded in the same way. A few weeks later the same thing happened. This time Allah told Moosa that it has been decreed that she is barren and would never have a child.

A few years later Moosa met the woman in the market place, with a child. He inquired and the woman told her that Allah granted her with a son. Astounded, Moosa went to Allah and asked about the matter. So Allah responded, "she made so much dua, that it exceeded my will, so I changed what i had decreed.''

This story is complete fabrication, is not found in any of the hadith books. I even looked into the books which have fabricated stories and this story is not even found in those books. Most likely came from Judeo-Christian traditions and we should not accept such stories. The story itself has very serious 'aqeedah issues, it defies that Allah has the ultimate knowledge and defies the fact that everything has already been written in preserved tablet. If something was supposed to happen due to a dua, Allah knew that as well. As mentioned in my previous posts, dua itself is part of the Qadr. A video below from Sheikh Yasir Birjas has discussed this story and have also explained the issue of Qadr and dua in depth.

I think it makes sense.. It is not mandatory for Allah to reveal the decre to moosa.. Instead Allah tested the woman with her faith. She didn't give up on dua and thats why kept asking for a child.
It could be fabricated but it is not beyond logic.i am still looking for the book though.. I hope i find it.

And thats the point.. Allah knows everything.. We cant comprehend the true sense of qadr. It means everything is planned out.. Then many of rhe non muslims might find it unfair on the day of judgement for being sent to hell fire.. There is the concept of free will. Which i believe Allah gave us full authority over.. He knows whether we will choose door a, b, c and then the outcome of each possibility..
We don't know it.
We cant argue either that we should /shouldn't work for it because of Qadr. Cuz Allah has already preordained whether a person will work for something or not..
Getting it!?

format_quote Originally Posted by wayfarer91

I think it makes sense.. It is not mandatory for Allah to reveal the decre to moosa.. Instead Allah tested the woman with her faith. She didn't give up on dua and thats why kept asking for a child.

format_quote Originally Posted by wayfarer91

It could be fabricated but it is not beyond logic.

The point is such stories should not be shared. Its fabricated and teaches something which goes against the 'aqeedah as I explained in my previous post. One does not need fabricated stories to make sense of Qadr, it is not as complicated to understand for a believer especially when we have authentic sources to explain the concept. Please refer to Sahih hadith quoted several times ( dua is answered in one of the three ways).

Yes, dua is answered in one of three ways, but then it means Qadr cannot be changed through destiny the way we want it to. What is preordained will not change even if we make dua, however we will be rewarded as dua is a form of worship. NO? and we are rewarded for worshiping Allah. So does that mean we should not make dua, instead resort to other forms of worship, or make duas for general things, so on and so forth. I saw wayfarer91 post and she spoke what i wanted to say.

i Solemlnly believe that dua can change qadr, All explanations do not make sense. If a person wants to ask for money from person B, the person B got the wind of it from persons C and D. Allah does not work that way, he has knowledge of everything.
Even if u make dua, how long should you make dua for something particular? When should be the moment of us realizing it is not in our qadr to get that thing. People try for decades to have kids, they rely on dua and medical assistance. At the same time, family who had a child when the woman was in her 60s and man in his late 60s,. It happened by the Will of Allah. Does that mean that it was dua that got them the baby, or Allah's will. They had lost all hope, even stopped making dua. Does that mean dua didn't work, Allah only granted them the child when it was ordained for them. Or does it mean that dua changed their qadr?

If you read Iqbal's Shikwa, that might help you understand the idea iam trying to convey here. It is a bit open, and might affect the faith of bigots. but try reading it with an open mind ..Assim Ali Khan says that even Evil Eye is preordained, and Allah knows that one will be affected with it. So what does that mean? If it is preordained, definitely nothing can change it, not even dua, because Allah has already decreed it in loh e mahfooz

format_quote Originally Posted by amnasheikh99

Does that mean dua didn't work, Allah only granted them the child when it was ordained for them. Or does it mean that dua changed their qadr?

If you read Iqbal's Shikwa, that might help you understand the idea iam trying to convey here. It is a bit open, and might affect the faith of bigots. but try reading it with an open mind ..Assim Ali Khan says that even Evil Eye is preordained, and Allah knows that one will be affected with it. So what does that mean? If it is preordained, definitely nothing can change it, not even dua, because Allah has already decreed it in loh e mahfooz

Maybe a duaa they made many years ago was accepted but it had to take many years to see the results.As i have said before,it took me 8 years of constantly making duaa everyday to leave my country and practice islam in freedom.Or in the case of the prophet saws,he didnt have mecca immediately,it took him a long time.We have to go through tests and hardship regardless of duaa,after all this is why we are here to be tested.But the beautiful thing of it is that even though your duaa might be ''worthless'' in the dunya,there are still 2 others ways that it is accepted.

Yes but at the same time if Allah didnt decree it in lahul-Mahfuz or if Allah doesnt know if you will be affected with evil eye in the future then that is contradicting to the fact that Allah has knowledge about everything.But we dont know what will happen in the future.So we do our best to be protected from it,use our free will,and whatever happens in the future is the result of our free will which Allah already knows.

I just want to say whilst this post has caused much debate and some conflict, for me, such exploration provided me with reminders and some comfort to what I go through on a daily basis.

I took the points of benefit and positivity out as reminders and to refresh and re-feed my understanding. Some very informative posts.

May Allah swt guide us all even when we forget. When we even steer away from the righteous path, let it be brief and let us get back on the righteous path swiftly.

I have so much going on in life, responsibilities, in day to day activities (you all probably do too), sometimes can get busy so I do depend on reminders, virtue and wisdom partially to keep me going and to keep myself on track.

Please remember me, my family and all those struggling in your duas.

Alhamdulillah.

See Abdullah it is the same thing
Did Allah not decree for the person to have haram income and eat haram?

format_quote Originally Posted by amnasheikh99

See Abdullah it is the same thing
Did Allah not decree for the person to have haram income and eat haram?

Al-Qadr is a matter of Allah’s Knowledge. No one can uncover his own Qadr except after it occurs. One’s intention to perform a deed precedes the action itself. He does not know what Al-Qadr holds for him. Therefore, Al-Qadr is not a valid excuse for sinning and abandoning the commandments of Allah. Don’t mix your free will with Qadr.

It was reported that a man who was caught stealing was brought to 'Umar Ibn Al-Khattab may Allah be pleased with him who ordered that this man’s hand be cut off. The man said: “Wait, O leader of the believers! I only stole because this was in the Qadr of Allah." 'Umar may Allah be pleased with him replied “And we are amputating your hand because it is in the Qadr of Allah.”

There is no free will if Allah has already preordained everything..

format_quote Originally Posted by amnasheikh99

There is no free will if Allah has already preordained everything..

Are you serious? we've had a whole discussion about preordainment, qadr and free will and this is what you came up with in the end?

No, It is only logical. Allah wrote down our qadr 50k years before He made this world. So, If the concept of free will applies, that Qadr would not be absolute> Right? now you need to think with a broad mind.


If Allah knows what we are gonna do, and preordained our schooling, our marriage, our life etc, then there are two cases
Either He is in control of everything
or
Because of our freewill He himself does not know what is written in the preserved tabled (nauzubillah)

format_quote Originally Posted by amnasheikh99

There is no free will if Allah has already preordained everything..

It’s wrong understanding of the Qadr, and used mostly By bad people to justify their wrong doings. They don’t want to take responsibility of their bad actions and blame their actions on their Qadr. Please listen to the video below:

And hope it will help you to understand the right balance one should keep.
Ma’aSalaam

format_quote Originally Posted by amnasheikh99

No, It is only logical. Allah wrote down our qadr 50k years before He made this world. So, If the concept of free will applies, that Qadr would not be absolute> Right? now you need to think with a broad mind.


If Allah knows what we are gonna do, and preordained our schooling, our marriage, our life etc, then there are two cases
Either He is in control of everything
or
Because of our freewill He himself does not know what is written in the preserved tabled (nauzubillah)

So according to you something is false in the Quraan...either Allah is not omnipotent or Allah is not just...

This is what you believe? are you a muslimah at all? because you accused me that I influenced your faith negatively...but if this is what you really believe...then there is something terribly wrong with your faith don't you think?