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    medico's Avatar
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    People who believe in innovations....?

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    Assalamualaikum. My relatives believe that we can read quran for dead. Relatives, in the sense ,my maternal uncles and aunts etc. Mum used to believe it as well but i told her about it, i dont let her recite quran for her father(who has died). Yesterday, my aunt called my mum saying we have to complete one more quran blah blah blah. So mum gave me the phone and i tried to explain her that it doesn't have any basis in sunnah. But of course, she wasn't ready to be convinced. And she (my aunt) circulated this thing to all my relatives. Seriously!!. Now they are sending the fatwas etc. in the family group texting ''''''for those who are having doubts regarding esale sawab''''whatever. And i guess, they are deliberately telling their progress in the group "I have done this juz, that juz". My mum doesn't check the group so she doesn't know but i fear,if i tell her, she will get extremely angry at them. Idk what to do. I told them that we can make dua, give charity or make up their left fasts but they are stubborn. They were grown up knowing this so it will take time for them to understand. However i am sure that reading quran for dead is bidah and is not accepted. It's like they have become my enemies in a moment.

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    wayfarer91's Avatar
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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    If you recite the Quran, i think th reward will go to u.. If ur family is not willing to accept it, just let them be.. This bidah has foundations in Turkey, and spread to india as well.

    People hold Quran events where a group of 30to40 women/men recite the Quran in a congregation and make dua at the end for the deceased..

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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    Yeah but the intention is different.

    This is so disgusting. They are sending the videos where the scholar says that we should read quran by understanding it and all. Or else we don't have imaan etc... They took it the wrong way. I will seriously tell my mother then.

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    'Abdullah's Avatar
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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions ( may Allah be pleased with them all) never did such a thing & we follow what they did and stay away from what they did not do.
    You can send them couple of videos in response of scholars warning against this biddah and if they still insist then no need to fuel the argument. You did your part and verily its Allah who guides people to the right path. And those who follow their forefathers even if they are wrong and reject the Sunnah have been blinded, just make dua that May Allah guide them as well.

    On the authority of the mother of the faithful, Aisha (ra), who said:

    The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, “He who innovates something in this matter of ours (i.e., Islam) that is not of it will have it rejected (by Allah).”

    [Bukhari & Muslim]

    In another version in Muslim it reads: “He who does an act which we have not commanded, will have it rejected (by Allah).”

    عَنْ أُمِّ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أُمِّ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ عَائِشَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهَا، قَالَتْ: قَالَ: رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه و سلم "مَنْ أَحْدَثَ فِي أَمْرِنَا هَذَا مَا لَيْسَ مِنْهُ فَهُوَ رَدٌّ
    [رَوَاهُ الْبُخَارِيُّ]
    ، [وَمُسْلِمٌ]
    .
    وَفِي رِوَايَةٍ
    لِمُسْلِمٍ
    :مَنْ عَمِلَ عَمَلًا لَيْسَ عَلَيْهِ أَمْرُنَا فَهُوَ رَدٌّ" .
    Reference: 40 Hadith Nawawi 5
    English translation: Hadith 5
    https://sunnah.com/nawawi40/5

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    Ümit's Avatar
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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Abdullah View Post
    Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions ( may Allah be pleased with them all) never did such a thing & we follow what they did and stay away from what they did not do.
    You can send them couple of videos in response of scholars warning against this biddah and if they still insist then no need to fuel the argument. You did your part and verily its Allah who guides people to the right path. And those who follow their forefathers even if they are wrong and reject the Sunnah have been blinded, just make dua that May Allah guide them as well.

    On the authority of the mother of the faithful, Aisha (ra), who said:

    The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, “He who innovates something in this matter of ours (i.e., Islam) that is not of it will have it rejected (by Allah).”

    [Bukhari & Muslim]

    In another version in Muslim it reads: “He who does an act which we have not commanded, will have it rejected (by Allah).”

    عَنْ أُمِّ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ أُمِّ عَبْدِ اللَّهِ عَائِشَةَ رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهَا، قَالَتْ: قَالَ: رَسُولُ اللَّهِ صلى الله عليه و سلم "مَنْ أَحْدَثَ فِي أَمْرِنَا هَذَا مَا لَيْسَ مِنْهُ فَهُوَ رَدٌّ
    [رَوَاهُ الْبُخَارِيُّ]
    ، [وَمُسْلِمٌ]
    .
    وَفِي رِوَايَةٍ
    لِمُسْلِمٍ
    :مَنْ عَمِلَ عَمَلًا لَيْسَ عَلَيْهِ أَمْرُنَا فَهُوَ رَدٌّ" .
    Reference: 40 Hadith Nawawi 5
    English translation: Hadith 5
    https://sunnah.com/nawawi40/5
    wait...you cannot do that? I always recite Al Ihlaas three times and Fatiha every time I pass a cemetary and make duah...and I know many Turkish people do that...even the imaams...are you saying that is bidaah?
    can someone provide ayaats or hadeeths for this please?

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    'Abdullah's Avatar
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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    wait...you cannot do that? I always recite Al Ihlaas three times and Fatiha every time I pass a cemetary and make duah...and I know many Turkish people do that...even the imaams...are you saying that is bidaah?
    can someone provide ayaats or hadeeths for this please?
    Please see link below for ruling in this regard:
    https://islamqa.info/en/answers/9979...-a-dead-person

    What. can benefit dead based on Quran and Sunnah - please see link below for details:
    https://islamqa.info/en/answers/763/...the-living-say

    And Allah knows the best!
    I ask Allah to guide us all to follow what has been established as authentic Sunnah and leave what has no basis in Quran & Sunnah. Ameen!

    Ma’aSalaam

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    Ümit's Avatar
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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Abdullah View Post
    Please see link below for ruling in this regard:
    https://islamqa.info/en/answers/9979...-a-dead-person

    What. can benefit dead based on Quran and Sunnah - please see link below for details:
    https://islamqa.info/en/answers/763/...the-living-say

    And Allah knows the best!
    I ask Allah to guide us all to follow what has been established as authentic Sunnah and leave what has no basis in Quran & Sunnah. Ameen!

    Ma’aSalaam
    Thank you very much for this.
    However I did a small research on this...and the four madhabs seems to disagree with you on this subject...and appearantly...there ARE hadeets about reading Quraan for the dead. especially Al Fatiha and Yaseen seems very beneficial...now I am confused...
    https://questionsonislam.com/questio...ur-dead-people
    Last edited by Ümit; 1 Week Ago at 04:34 AM. Reason: forgot to provide the link hehehe

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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    Thank you very much for this.
    However I did a small research on this...and the four madhabs seems to disagree with you on this subject...and appearantly...there ARE hadeets about reading Quraan for the dead. especially Al Fatiha and Yaseen seems very beneficial...now I am confused...
    https://questionsonislam.com/questio...ur-dead-people
    another link I found
    https://aboutislam.net/counseling/as...-benefit-dead/

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    'Abdullah's Avatar
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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    Is there a single authentic Hadith for the claims made?
    And of course you will find stuff online in support of something which many Muslims do. But remember, Islam is not based on people’s opinion. It derives all its matters from Quran and Sunnah.


    Last edited by 'Abdullah; 1 Week Ago at 05:12 AM.

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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Abdullah View Post
    Is there a single authentic Hadith for the claims made?
    I am not an expert brother...are the hadeeths mentioned not authentic then?

    besides...why would all four madhabs (which is the majority of the muslims) agree qith each other on this if it were bidaah?

    I am really confused now...

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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    I am not an expert brother...are the hadeeths mentioned not authentic then?

    besides...why would all four madhabs (which is the majority of the muslims) agree qith each other on this if it were bidaah?

    I am really confused now...
    Four madhabs don’t agree on this, that’s a dishonesty of authors who wrote those articles. Anyways let’s look into the Hadith which they use as evidence:

    Narrated Ibn `Abbas:
    The mother of Sa`d bin 'Ubada died in his absence. He said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! My mother died in my absence; will it be of any benefit for her if I give Sadaqa on her behalf?" The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Yes," Sa`d said, "I make you a witness that I gave my garden called Al Makhraf in charity on her behalf."
    حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدٌ، أَخْبَرَنَا مَخْلَدُ بْنُ يَزِيدَ، أَخْبَرَنَا ابْنُ جُرَيْجٍ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَنِي يَعْلَى، أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ عِكْرِمَةَ، يَقُولُ أَنْبَأَنَا ابْنُ عَبَّاسٍ ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ أَنَّ سَعْدَ بْنَ عُبَادَةَ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ تُوُفِّيَتْ أُمُّهُ وَهْوَ غَائِبٌ عَنْهَا، فَقَالَ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ إِنَّ أُمِّي تُوُفِّيَتْ وَأَنَا غَائِبٌ عَنْهَا، أَيَنْفَعُهَا شَىْءٌ إِنْ تَصَدَّقْتُ بِهِ عَنْهَا قَالَ ‏ "‏ نَعَمْ ‏"‏‏.‏ قَالَ فَإِنِّي أُشْهِدُكَ أَنَّ حَائِطِي الْمِخْرَافَ صَدَقَةٌ عَلَيْهَا‏.‏
    Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 2756
    In-book reference : Book 55, Hadith 19
    USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 4, Book 51, Hadith 19
    https://sunnah.com/bukhari/55/19

    Now the Hadith clearly says that giving charity on behalf of dead can benefit them. And majority of Muslims scholars agree on this. However, some scholars say that this Hadith also means that any good action which we do with an intention to benefit the dead will be accepted while others say that Hadith only mentions charity not other actions such as reading Quran. Hence we difference of opinion.
    Now let me ask a question. Can you pray for dead people who never prayed or often missed prayers in their life time or who never or often did not read Quran when they were alive. Do you think that if we read Quran in their behalf or pray extra rakahs on their behalf, it will benefit them?

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    xboxisdead's Avatar
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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    Quote Originally Posted by wayfarer91 View Post
    If you recite the Quran, i think th reward will go to u.. If ur family is not willing to accept it, just let them be.. This bidah has foundations in Turkey, and spread to india as well.

    People hold Quran events where a group of 30to40 women/men recite the Quran in a congregation and make dua at the end for the deceased..
    I am assuming these women and men are visiting the grave and reciting the Qura'an on top of the deceased VERY MUCH like the CHRISITIANS and JEWS DO! In fact, you are liking the habits of Muslims like the non-Muslims practices, religion and preaches and that...is.......seriously........dangerous and need to be stopped ASAP.

    https://islamqa.info/en/answers/127/...isiting-graves

    Question
    Our extended family seem to de divided on the issue of women visiting graves. Some say it is perfectly okay and do so and some say it is not permitted and do not visit graves. Please let me know if it is permissible for women to visit graves.

    Praise be to Allah.

    Paying visits by Muslim men to cemeteries is a practice of the sunnah, and it reminds one of his destiny so that he may strive for it. As the Prophet (peace be upon him) said:
    "I [once] had forbid you from visiting graves, [and I now enjoin] you to do so, so that the visit may serve as a beneficial reminder." (related by Muslim and others)

    and in the version of al-Haakim:

    " for [such visits] soften the heart, bring tears to the eyes, and serve as a reminder of the Hereafter, [but be careful] not to speak forbidden expressions [i.e. while visiting]." (Sahih al-Jaami' 4584)

    Concerning visits to cemeteries by women, scholars have varied opinions on this issue:

    it is allowed or preferred and their case is similar to that of men

    it is makrooh (reprehensible), which is the opinion of jumhoor ul-'ulemaa' (the majority of the scholars)

    it is forbidden, this one probably being the strongest opinion, as indicated by al-hadith al-sahih in which the Prophet (peace be upon him) said:

    "Allaah has cursed women who frequent graves," related by Ahmed and Tirmidhi and Ibn Maajah and in one version,

    "Allaah has cursed women who visit graves and those who build mosques and place lights upon them." (related by Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi, al-Nisaa'i and al-Haakim)

    This condemnation would warrant the validity of the argument against women visiting cemeteries as the lawmaker (i.e. Allaah) would not condemn something that is permissible or reprehensibleonly that which is forbidden completely.

    Regarding what would be the reason for this condemnation, the scholars have cited two main arguments:

    Firstly, that women for the most part are emotionally weaker in accepting calamities and perhaps being in sight of her dear one's graves may break into wailing and loud weeping, which would be detrimental to her religious character and harmful for her body as well.

    Secondly, cemeteries are oftentimes isolated places which may not be safe for someone being alone, possibly exposing a woman to people of corrupt or loose moral character.

    In summary, the rationale behind this prohibition is that women are often not as strong emotionally in the face of calamities, and not visiting graves prevents them from the trial and from being exposed to unnecessary fitnah.

    Allaah the Most Knowledgeable knows what is most correct and best.
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    'Abdullah's Avatar
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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    If you are still confused then let’s go through few more questions to understand the methodology for differentiating between biddah and an act of worship.

    Did Prophet ( peace be upon him) conveyed the message?
    Can we say companions understood the message of Islam better than anyone else because their teacher was Prophet ( peace be upon him) himself?
    Did people die at the time of prophet ( peace be upon him) and companions?
    Did they not care about their dead ones?
    Will not they read the Quran for dead people on their graves if they would have understood it as some of the scholar claim to understand the Hadith I mentioned above?
    Did we find any evidence of companions doing this?

    If not, then be assure that this practice is not part of our Deen. And those who make such claims actually claim to have understood Deen better than companions ( Naouzu Billah).

    I hope this can help you understand why some scholars call this a biddah. I came from similar culture where people do this as part of Deen. They arrange collective Quran reading for first three days, then on 7th day and then on 40th day and then every year. None of this has any basis in Islam and one can only learn about these things if we sincerely start seeking knowledge. Alhamdulillah that Allah took me out from darkness and guided me to see true teachings of Islam. It’s still a constant battle because many of my close relatives still believe and do these things. May Allah guide me and guide all Muslims and keep us away from newly invented matters in our Deen. Ameen!

    And with Allah is the absolute knowledge of all things and He alone knows the best!

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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Abdullah View Post
    Four madhabs don’t agree on this, that’s a dishonesty of authors who wrote those articles. Anyways let’s look into the Hadith which they use as evidence:

    Narrated Ibn `Abbas:
    The mother of Sa`d bin 'Ubada died in his absence. He said, "O Allah's Messenger (ﷺ)! My mother died in my absence; will it be of any benefit for her if I give Sadaqa on her behalf?" The Prophet (ﷺ) said, "Yes," Sa`d said, "I make you a witness that I gave my garden called Al Makhraf in charity on her behalf."
    حَدَّثَنَا مُحَمَّدٌ، أَخْبَرَنَا مَخْلَدُ بْنُ يَزِيدَ، أَخْبَرَنَا ابْنُ جُرَيْجٍ، قَالَ أَخْبَرَنِي يَعْلَى، أَنَّهُ سَمِعَ عِكْرِمَةَ، يَقُولُ أَنْبَأَنَا ابْنُ عَبَّاسٍ ـ رضى الله عنهما ـ أَنَّ سَعْدَ بْنَ عُبَادَةَ ـ رضى الله عنه ـ تُوُفِّيَتْ أُمُّهُ وَهْوَ غَائِبٌ عَنْهَا، فَقَالَ يَا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ إِنَّ أُمِّي تُوُفِّيَتْ وَأَنَا غَائِبٌ عَنْهَا، أَيَنْفَعُهَا شَىْءٌ إِنْ تَصَدَّقْتُ بِهِ عَنْهَا قَالَ ‏ "‏ نَعَمْ ‏"‏‏.‏ قَالَ فَإِنِّي أُشْهِدُكَ أَنَّ حَائِطِي الْمِخْرَافَ صَدَقَةٌ عَلَيْهَا‏.‏
    Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 2756
    In-book reference : Book 55, Hadith 19
    USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 4, Book 51, Hadith 19
    https://sunnah.com/bukhari/55/19

    Now the Hadith clearly says that giving charity on behalf of dead can benefit them. And majority of Muslims scholars agree on this. However, some scholars say that this Hadith also means that any good action which we do with an intention to benefit the dead will be accepted while others say that Hadith only mentions charity not other actions such as reading Quran. Hence we difference of opinion.
    Now let me ask a question. Can you pray for dead people who never prayed or often missed prayers in their life time or who never or often did not read Quran when they were alive. Do you think that if we read Quran in their behalf or pray extra rakahs on their behalf, it will benefit them?
    before I answer this...let me ask a counter question
    can you give charity for a dead person who never prayed or often missed prayers etc?

    according to the hadeeth you provided, you can.
    the hadeeth does not make a difference between that.

    thefore, I would say...yes you can pray for such people.
    besides...we cannot look inside peoples hearts...what we witness with our eyes may deceive us. we may not judge who was a rightful person and who wasnt.

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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Abdullah View Post
    If you are still confused then let’s go through few more questions to understand the methodology for differentiating between biddah and an act of worship.

    Did Prophet ( peace be upon him) conveyed the message?
    Can we say companions understood the message of Islam better than anyone else because their teacher was Prophet ( peace be upon him) himself?
    Did people die at the time of prophet ( peace be upon him) and companions?
    Did they not care about their dead ones?
    Will not they read the Quran for dead people on their graves if they would have understood it as some of the scholar claim to understand the Hadith I mentioned above?
    Did we find any evidence of companions doing this?

    If not, then be assure that this practice is not part of our Deen. And those who make such claims actually claim to have understood Deen better than companions ( Naouzu Billah).

    I hope this can help you understand why some scholars call this a biddah. I came from similar culture where people do this as part of Deen. They arrange collective Quran reading for first three days, then on 7th day and then on 40th day and then every year. None of this has any basis in Islam and one can only learn about these things if we sincerely start seeking knowledge. Alhamdulillah that Allah took me out from darkness and guided me to see true teachings of Islam. It’s still a constant battle because many of my close relatives still believe and do these things. May Allah guide me and guide all Muslims and keep us away from newly invented matters in our Deen. Ameen!

    And with Allah is the absolute knowledge of all things and He alone knows the best!
    on the other side...I must agree with you on this...if it was so beneficial...the Prophet sas would have done it...
    so I am a bit divided right now...
    one thing I do not agree about is that it is a form of bidaah.

    bidaah is harmful. I cannot think of any reason for this being harmful.

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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    before I answer this...let me ask a counter question
    can you give charity for a dead person who never prayed or often missed prayers etc?

    according to the hadeeth you provided, you can.
    the hadeeth does not make a difference between that.

    thefore, I would say...yes you can pray for such people.
    besides...we cannot look inside peoples hearts...what we witness with our eyes may deceive us. we may not judge who was a rightful person and who wasnt.
    The Hadith I mentioned is in Sahih Bukhari and I don’t question its authenticity. So if a Hadith is authentic, I follow whatever it says. Now if you say one can pray missed prayers of a diseased person then one need to provide an evidence from Quran and Sunnah to make such a claim. Where is the evidence?
    Anyways I am not here to debate, you can follow whatever seems right to you.
    Ma’aSalaam

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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    can reading quraan for someone else also be seen as a form of charity? or is charity only material things?

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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ümit View Post
    on the other side...I must agree with you on this...if it was so beneficial...the Prophet sas would have done it...
    so I am a bit divided right now...
    one thing I do not agree about is that it is a form of bidaah.

    bidaah is harmful. I cannot think of any reason for this being harmful.
    Let’s first examine what is biddah?
    Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “According to sharee’ah, the definition is:
    Worshipping Allaah in ways that Allaah has not prescribed.’ If you wish you may say, ‘Worshipping Allaah in ways that are not those of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his rightly guided successors (al-khulafaa’ al-raashidoon).
    The first definition is taken from the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Or have they partners with Allaah (false gods) who have instituted for them a religion which Allaah has not ordained?” [al-Shooraa 42:21]

    The second definition is taken from the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who said:

    “I urge you to adhere to my way (Sunnah) and the way of the rightly-guided successors (al-khulafa’ al-raashidoon) who come after me. Hold fast to it and bite onto it with your eyeteeth [i.e., cling firmly to it], and beware of newly-invented matters.”

    So everyone who worships Allaah in a manner that Allaah has not prescribed or in a manner that is not in accordance with the way of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his rightly-guided successors (al-khulafa’ al-raashidoon), is an innovator, whether that innovated worship has to do with the names and attributes of Allaah, or to do with His rulings and laws.

    In simple words, biddah always seems to be something good which we can do to get closer to Allah but it will have no basis in Islam & hence will be rejected. An example of this is celebrating birthday of prophet peace be upon him. Another example could be to read tahayatul masjid ( 2 Rakah when one enters in masjid) in congregation.
    Last edited by 'Abdullah; 1 Week Ago at 07:45 AM.

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    Re: People who believe in innovations....?

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Abdullah View Post
    Let’s first examine what is biddah?
    Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Uthaymeen (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “According to sharee’ah, the definition is:


    The first definition is taken from the aayah (interpretation of the meaning):

    “Or have they partners with Allaah (false gods) who have instituted for them a religion which Allaah has not ordained?” [al-Shooraa 42:21]

    The second definition is taken from the hadeeth of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), who said:

    “I urge you to adhere to my way (Sunnah) and the way of the rightly-guided successors (al-khulafa’ al-raashidoon) who come after me. Hold fast to it and bite onto it with your eyeteeth [i.e., cling firmly to it], and beware of newly-invented matters.”

    So everyone who worships Allaah in a manner that Allaah has not prescribed or in a manner that is not in accordance with the way of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) or his rightly-guided successors (al-khulafa’ al-raashidoon), is an innovator, whether that innovated worship has to do with the names and attributes of Allaah, or to do with His rulings and laws.

    In simple words, biddah always seems to be something good which we can do to get closer to Allah but it will have no basis in Islam & hence will be rejected.
    so the first definition does not apply in this situation.

    the second definition...I am not sure...we have only weak hadeeths...one saheeh hadeeth is the one you provided about charity...so the question is whether reading Quraan can be seen as a form of charity...


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