I am appalled that some people think that a woman must prove her modesty or that she resisted a rape as much as she could before being found at no fault for beibg raped.,
No means NO!!! I dont care if a peron walked naked down the street, she has a right to say NO to sex, and it is no esxcse for a man to take what he wants against her will.
I am appallled at what was said on an Islamic website about this, read the relevant quotes in red.
From "islam on line"
Name of Counsellor Kamal Badr
Answer
Dear sister, thanks for your question.
As the question mostly revolves around raped women, I’d confine my answer to that point, without delving into the issue of punishing the rapist, on which there is no controversy that if it’s proven, beyond reasonable doubt, that he’s guilty of the crime, he will serve the punishment.
But I’d like to make it clear that this crime can be proved either by confession or testimony or even through any modern means, thanks for the great revolution that has taken place in the field of science. This has made it easier for criminal experts to lay their hands on clear evidence that paves way for justice to run its course.
So what I’m trying to say is that, contrary to what some Westerners claim, the issue is not just “bring four witnesses or set the accused free”. Shari`ah is not a legal system that keeps itself away from realities of life. Rather, it’s practical in the sense that its mechanism of justice operates in a quite flexible way that makes all its precepts and rulings applicable at all time. Anyway, as I’ve said, I won’t go into details on that now.
Moving to your question. Yes, sister, raped women are not punished in Islam. What punishment?! This is like saying that a person robbed of his property should be punished. Actually, this notion belongs to places where the law of the jungle is in operation.
It’s a fact that, to be absolved from guilt, the raped woman must have shown some sort of good conduct, in the sense that what befell her must be something beyond her control. This is where Islam excels. In dealing with a certain issue or addressing a certain problem, it brings forth a comprehensive panacea that uproots the problem and eliminates its causes. Rather than stipulating a temporary measure that will act as sedatives, Islam gets down to the root of the problem itself with the aim of uprooting entirely. It sets noble codes of conduct that should prevail in the society; it addresses women to maintain their modesty, as not to open the door for evils: “… be not too complacent of speech, lest one in whose heart is a disease should be moved with desire: but speak ye a speech (that is) just.”
Surah 33 Verse 32
The above verse, despite addressing the wives of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, actually, in an implicit way, calls upon Muslim women in general to preserve their dignity and modesty, just to save themselves from any harassment.
This injunction sounds more explicit in the following verse:
“O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”
Surah 33 Verse 59
This is Islam! As we have reiterated before, it does not hunt for crimes just to punish; rather, it works towards the means of blocking the avenues of crimes. Even when it punishes, it doesn’t punish blindly; rather, it strikes the guilty hand.
So, for a rape victim to be absolved from guilt, she must not be the one that opens her house for robbery and her dignity for deflowering. If, after trying her best to resist the attack, she gets overcome by the assailants, she is totally absolved from punishment.
Muslim scholars are unanimous on this. They maintain that any woman, who, despite doing her utmost to resist these thugs and their ilk, is raped, is not guilty of any sin. This is since the situation is beyond her control, and anyone who is forced to do something is not guilty of sin. This is even in the case of disbelief, which is worse than zina (sex out of marriage), as Allah says:
“… except him who is forced thereto and whose heart is at rest with faith…” .”
Surah16 Verse 106
The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, said: “Allah has forgiven for my Ummah for their mistakes, what they forget and what they are forced to do.”
In showing reaction to this heinous crime, Islam takes into consideration the terrible effects it has on its victims. Most rape victims have their self-esteem diminished after an assault or abuse, driving them to be hunted by frequent shame, humiliation and loss of control.
This situation may even exacerbate to the point of making rape victims find it difficult to be intimate with others. That’s why Islam lays down certain strategies, which all in all, aim at soothing the rape victim, opening for her new channels of hope and survival.
That’s why Islam makes it clear that any Muslim woman who falls prey to a rapist will be rewarded for bearing this calamity with patience, if she seeks Allah’s, reward for the harm that has befallen her. The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, says: “No stress or exhaustion befalls the Muslim, nor worry or distress, even a thorn which pricks him, but Allah will forgive his sins because of that.”
The society also has a role to play in rehabilitating the rape victim. Instead of deserting her or considering her a person non grata in the society, for the crime she has no hand in, Islam calls upon the society to rush to assist her in modifying and improving her life. We should show her the way out the pain of abuse.
Thus, many Muslim scholars, led by Sheikh Al-Qaradawi, have maintained that young Muslim men should hasten to marry women who fall as rape victims, so as to reduce their suffering and console them, to compensate them for the loss of the most precious thing that they possess. This reflects mutual love, rapport and altruism that prevail in the Muslim society.
This is, in brief, how Islam caters for raped women.
As for the site you referred to, I’ve checked it and I see that you don’t have to bother yourself with such things. What every Muslim should busy himself or herself with, is how to get acquainted with the teachings of Islam, and how to acquire that from a proper source.
Men should be able to control thier primitive urges, what are we? Wild animals?
I live in the UK, which is meant to be the 'binge drinking' capital of the World. I also happen to live in Cardiff, which happens to be the 'binge drinking' capital of the UK.
Sometimes, I have no choice but to walk through the town centre on a Friday or Saturday night. The amount of alchohol consumed completely diminishes what were once human beings to completely wild animals in every sense of the word.
The majority of rapes in this country (UK) happen to women who are clubbing. Again, the types differ. From 'date rape' drugs, to rapes while the women is unconcious or too drunk to give consent, to violent rapings which can end in murder even as far as intentional rapes for 'revenge' (it has happened quite often believe it or not).
It may be the case that most rapes happen to women out clubbing, although I would question that figure, but clubs are not where women are at most risk. The most likely perpetrator of rape is a woman's "partner" (32 percent) and the next on the list is "acquaintance" (22 percent). Current partners are responsible for 45 percent of all reported rapes. Strangers make up just 8 percent which is down from 12 percent in 1996 which in turn was down from 30 percent in 1985. I would like to think the numbers are going down but it is more likely the numbers of other rapes are going up.
The UK happens to be a very safe place for women despite what seems to me to be insanely stupid behaviour.
Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connait pas. - Blaise Pascal
It may be the case that most rapes happen to women out clubbing, although I would question that figure, but clubs are not where women are at most risk. The most likely perpetrator of rape is a woman's "partner" (32 percent) and the next on the list is "acquaintance" (22 percent). Current partners are responsible for 45 percent of all reported rapes. Strangers make up just 8 percent which is down from 12 percent in 1996 which in turn was down from 30 percent in 1985. I would like to think the numbers are going down but it is more likely the numbers of other rapes are going up.
The UK happens to be a very safe place for women despite what seems to me to be insanely stupid behaviour.
Perhaps the figures you have are in regard to convicted rapes. I took my statistic from figures published in the Guardian a few weeks (possibly month or so) back, I'll try to find it again as it was an interesting article.
I find it horrific to think that the most common rapist is the womens partner, I am assuming these cases are often linked with domestic abuse.
I have read recently that there are serious problems legally speaking in trying to convict women who are raped while clubbing or drunk. The only witnesses are the alleged rapist and victim and they are less than reliable witnesses due to their intoxicated state.
I have read some ridiculous stuff on this forum, but that just tops the list- how the hell do you know "no means no"- are you a mind reader?
How do you know whats going through their head!
WEll, Now I have seen the most ridiculous thing I have ever seen on any site I visit. How the hell do I know if no means no? Because I speak English (oooooh, I have never been so tempted to personally insult anyone here as right now) One does not have to be a mind reader to expect that when someone says NO, they mean NO, and to take any other course of action is called rape.
I sincerely hope you have never had sex with a woman who has said no, otherwise you are guilty of rape.
Oh, I could just see this in court
Judge - "did you ask this woman if you could have sex with her"?
You- "Yes"
Judge- "and what did she say"?
You- " she said no"
Judge- "But you went ahead anyway and had sex with her"?
You- "yes"
Judge "Why, when you know she said no?"
You- "well I couldn't see into her head, so I presumed she meant yes, because I am so hot looking and a real stud"
Judge-" In any civilised society, the words NO means NO, I find you guilty of rape"
Civilized people agree that rape is, first and foremost, an issue of domination and humiliation, rather than some sort of insane desire for sex. Statistics prove this. Most women are raped by people they know.
Let's wrap our minds around that before we go around blaming victims for sexual violence.
As for the website in question, it should be petitioned, and Muslims ought to protest, just like everyone protested when this so-called sheikh in Australia publicly blamed women for rape.
"We are arrows, loosed into eternity." - Aleksandr Men'.
"Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out..." - Paul McCartney.
I guess lots of idiots have degrees nowadays... Even Bush has got one. It's a shame, however, that his supposed "Islamic knowledge" should be dispensed among online communities.
Shame, shame, shame.
And shame on anyone who agrees with him.
"We are arrows, loosed into eternity." - Aleksandr Men'.
"Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out..." - Paul McCartney.
If a women runs around naked, then she's putting her self at risk and she has to bare some responsabilty for whatever happens
Why, because men cannot control themeselves? There can never be an excuse for rape, the moment we let men have excuses for rape, is the moment we lose the right to call ourselves civilised.
So you blame the woman if she is naked? What aout a G string? what about a bikini?, how about mini skirt and midriff top? or maybe jeans and jumper? muslim clothing except for hijab? , muslim cothing with hijab but no veil? full muslim clothing with veil but walking on her own to the neighbours house?
Where do YOU draw the line on when a woman is not at fault?
Do you think women should be questioned as a criminal would, in a rape case, to see if she was at fault in being raped?
The whole Idea is sickening, women should not have to prove anything except that the man had sex with her against her will, end of story- It is NEVER a womans fault if a man forces himself onto her.
I would suggest that you let islam-truth wallow in his own ignorance. There is a wealth of statistics out there that suggest that he is dead wrong in his beliefs, but, unfortunately, some people see what they want to see. For him, this is probably yet another excuse to slander "the evil West" and praise a patriarchal structure that makes it all too convenient for men like him to oppress those who are different.
I have wasted countless hours, arguing with countless people about this issue, but sometimes, one has to save oneself the trouble.
I always wonder if a man like that would change his mind if his mother, sister, daughter, or wife were raped, but then again, I would never wish anything like that on another person regardless of where they stand.
You are right that we are standing on a slippery slope of definitions, however. But look at his wording... "If a woman runs around naked..." He has no idea what he's talking about. And he won't understand. There's no point. Pick your battles.
"We are arrows, loosed into eternity." - Aleksandr Men'.
"Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out..." - Paul McCartney.
And yet, despite the supposed epidemic of rape in the West, women go out at night and walk the streets in very little clothing very late at night. Often after consuming too much alcohol. Therefore, I think it is safe to conclude, the streets are extremely safe and rape is, in fact, rather rare. Muslimas on the other hand are usually restricted even more than Islamic law says they ought to be. They are often not allowed out at all - look at Saudi Arabia. They usually wear more restrictive clothing than Islamic law seems to require in a strict sense. Therefore, I think, it is safe to conclude that the streets are extremely dangerous and rape must be, actually, rather common and would be even more common if these women were not protected so strongly.
Peace.
You are mistaken Mr. Cunfucious.
The wild wild west is far more dangerous than Islamic practicing countries. Not only in rape cases, but in every crime possible. Please view the other stats beside the rape crimes.
I bet if you add up all the crime commited in Islamic practicing countries, it will not total, the combined crime commited in the U.S and the U.K. And you think the west is a safer place
So-called Muslim nations usually have a great deal more stigma attached to rape.
It is estimated that the majority of rape victims in patriarchal societies do not come forward, because they are shamed. Sometimes, they are even killed.
Considering some of the so-called clerics out there, I'm not even surprised.
Statistics are moot for as long as a culture of shame exists.
Rape is a global problem.
"We are arrows, loosed into eternity." - Aleksandr Men'.
"Well the Ukraine girls really knock me out..." - Paul McCartney.
And yet, despite the supposed epidemic of rape in the West, women go out at night and walk the streets in very little clothing very late at night. Often after consuming too much alcohol. Therefore, I think it is safe to conclude, the streets are extremely safe and rape is, in fact, rather rare. Muslimas on the other hand are usually restricted even more than Islamic law says they ought to be. They are often not allowed out at all - look at Saudi Arabia. They usually wear more restrictive clothing than Islamic law seems to require in a strict sense. Therefore, I think, it is safe to conclude that the streets are extremely dangerous and rape must be, actually, rather common and would be even more common if these women were not protected so strongly.
The wild wild west is far more dangerous than Islamic practicing countries. Not only in rape cases, but in every crime possible. Please view the other stats beside the rape crimes.
I am not denying that Saudi Arabia and so on produce very low crime statistics. What I am saying is given that those statistics are useless, what are the indications of the real situation. And let me say it again - in the West women can and do go out late at night wearing very little often under the influence of alcohol, without serious consequence. Therefore the West must be safe. The Muslim countries are generally more restrictive than Islamic law demands. Therefore, whatever the government figures are, they must not be that safe.
Can we agree that many Muslim countries have all the predictors for a serious rape and crime problem - many young men, who have high unemployment rates, and who have grown up in cultures that stigmatise women who get raped, and where law enforcement for rape is next to non-existant?
Notice how the U.S is 9th on the list while Saudi Arabia is 65th which is the last on the list.
Which shows that more people report rape in the US than in many places. I also note that the US criminalises spousal rape which is not a crime in Islamic law or in many other legal systems.
Which proves little except that it would be a waste of time to report rape in Saudi Arabia.
I bet if you add up all the crime commited in Islamic practicing countries, it will not total, the combined crime commited in the U.S and the U.K. And you think the west is a safer place
I bet if you added up all the crimes it would be by far and away. I am happy to accept that certain types of crimes are likely to be less common in many Muslim countries. But the problem is you are insisting on reported crimes when you ought to be looking at the bigger picture and in particular the problems reporting. If a country displays signs of crime avoidance that indicates what people think. My brother, for instance, does not lock up his car when he parks it. It has never been stolen. I wouldn't keep valuables in the open inside my home even if the door was locked. We are each voting with our possessions for who has the lowest crime rate.
Le coeur a ses raisons, que la raison ne connait pas. - Blaise Pascal
Why, because men cannot control themeselves? There can never be an excuse for rape, the moment we let men have excuses for rape, is the moment we lose the right to call ourselves civilised.
So you blame the woman if she is naked? What aout a G string? what about a bikini?, how about mini skirt and midriff top? or maybe jeans and jumper? muslim clothing except for hijab? , muslim cothing with hijab but no veil? full muslim clothing with veil but walking on her own to the neighbours house?
Where do YOU draw the line on when a woman is not at fault?
Do you think women should be questioned as a criminal would, in a rape case, to see if she was at fault in being raped?
The whole Idea is sickening, women should not have to prove anything except that the man had sex with her against her will, end of story- It is NEVER a womans fault if a man forces himself onto her.
True, but maybe she and the law could do more to protect herself. You have to realise that even if you are dressing for yourself, there are deranged and perverted men out there. And I think if the man didn't think the punishment was so light like it is in the west he would think twice before going on the prowl.
The whole Idea is sickening, women should not have to prove anything except that the man had sex with her against her will, end of story- It is NEVER a womans fault if a man forces himself onto her.
NEVA A WOMANS FAULT?
if i put a big fat juicy burger in front of you while ur starving YOU TRY RESIST EATING IT! GO ON? TRY? IF U MANAGE TO DO IT, WIV ALL DUE RESPECT MENTION THE SAME THING AGAIN!!!! and this time i will shut up and accept exactly what u sAY.
Temptation is a nature, a nature every1 is well aware of. Some men are ofcourse weaker in controlling temptation. Women should understand this and do there part in helping "civilization" because it is noway civilised for women to walk around half naked expecting men to not lust after them. Not every men can be like muslims who lower there gazes so i find ur comments laughable!!!!!!!
-
My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
I would suggest that you let islam-truth wallow in his own ignorance. .
Not once have i seen dear brother islam-truth say anything "false/ignorant/offensive". He has stated that which is true? If you do not agree wiv him you do not stick up for the moral values of certain human beings!
Peace
-
My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
if i put a big fat juicy burger in front of you while ur starving YOU TRY RESIST EATING IT! GO ON? TRY? IF U MANAGE TO DO IT, WIV ALL DUE RESPECT MENTION THE SAME THING AGAIN!!!! and this time i will shut up and accept exactly what u sAY.
Temptation is a nature, a nature every1 is well aware of. Some men are ofcourse weaker in controlling temptation. Women should understand this and do there part in helping "civilization" because it is noway civilised for women to walk around half naked expecting men to not lust after them. Not every men can be like muslims who lower there gazes so i find ur comments laughable!!!!!!!
I cannot believe you would compare eating a hamburger to being raped? And, being a model, I have resisted eating fattening foods for many years now, so it wouldn't be a problem.
As to your comment about the hamburger, really, its sounds like you are saying that men are like starving people who cannot resist a last chance at a meal, instead of civilised beings who God created with a conscience and a brain.
I DO NOT find your comments laughable, I dont think rape is a laughing matter.
Also, how would you explain people from tribes in remote countries like in the Amazon? They walk around more than 1/2 nakd all the time, and they aren't continually being raped by the men in their tribes? Maybe they are more civilised than the type of people you describe?
I cannot believe you would compare eating a hamburger to being raped? And, being a model, I have resisted eating fattening foods for many years now, so it wouldn't be a problem.
As to your comment about the hamburger, really, its sounds like you are saying that men are like starving people who cannot resist a last chance at a meal, instead of civilised beings who God created with a conscience and a brain.
I DO NOT find your comments laughable, I dont think rape is a laughing matter.
Also, how would you explain people from tribes in remote countries like in the Amazon? They walk around more than 1/2 nakd all the time, and they aren't continually being raped by the men in their tribes? Maybe they are more civilised than the type of people you describe?
how do u kno wats going around ova at the amazon? what have you lived wiv them for a long time or something?
aah so ur a model , i only compared starvation to lust to give you an insight to what i believe is happening around us! i kno very well that rape is much worser BUT im saying if you kno rape happens, WHY NOT DECREASE IT? WHY? WHY DO U INSIST ON WEARING SUCH CLOTHING KNOWING WHAT MEN THINK? this encourages men! They look at u and think ur dressed in such a way to "attract" there attention and when they rape you they may even think you "want it". I hope i hav made myself clear. is there nething else i need to explain??
peace....
-
My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
-
Hey there! Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
When you create an account, we remember exactly what you've read, so you always come right back where you left off. You also get notifications, here and via email, whenever new posts are made. And you can like posts and share your thoughts. Sign Up
.
, i only compared starvation to lust to give you an insight to what i believe is happening around us! i kno very well that rape is much worser BUT im saying if you kno rape happens, WHY NOT DECREASE IT? WHY? WHY DO U INSIST ON WEARING SUCH CLOTHING KNOWING WHAT MEN THINK? this encourages men! They look at u and think ur dressed in such a way to "attract" there attention and when they rape you they may even think you "want it". I hope i hav made myself clear. is there nething else i need to explain??
Hide
Looks like you're enjoying the discussion, but you're not signed up for an account.
Bookmarks