what happened here... was it right to hand over the muslims to the kafirs... even if the muslims had bad intentions.. i mean wasnt there other ways to do it... what happened :confused: is it ok to turn over your brothers to kafirs.... :confused:
Last edited by IbnAbdulHakim; 07-09-2007 at 10:13 PM.
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My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
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I can't see the video.. but NO, it isn't right to turn your bros. or sister over to a kaffir, in fact those people will have their special day insha'allah.. and I believe there is a hadith confirming that, I am unfortunately not as handy with the hadiths as I am with the Quran, but will try to find it for you insha'Allah...
Text without context is pretext If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him
I can't see the video.. but NO, it isn't right to turn your bros. or sister over to a kaffir, in fact those people will have their special day insha'allah.. and I believe there is a hadith confirming that, I am unfortunately not as handy with the hadiths as I am with the Quran, but will try to find it for you insha'Allah...
Alhamdulillah i agree
i cant believe this... this video got me feeling quite sick.
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My tears testify that i have a heart
yet i feel me and shaytan never part
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wouldnt it have been better to have turned theses people in, as the brother in the video did, the people who the brother was associated with were willing to go to extreme lengths just to prove their point, in time they would have built bombs and allah knows what else, and probably killed many people, isnt it better that this was prevented, after all if they has the brothers had gone ahead with their plans, in would have been the ummah that suffered, as always, the brother in the video was only doing what he thought was best.
I dont know the islamic teaching on turning on your own muslims bro and sis, so allah forgive me if i have said anything wrong.
We were present at the lecture of sheikh ahmed as-suby'ee may Allaah protect him almost a fortnight ago n he said when asked what one should do if they knew of a muslim invloved in terrorist plots, he replied that: if the people are going against the law of the land and above that against what Allaah has revealed to us and what our messenger taught us like terrorism n killin the innocent people then, yes the officials should be informed...
we have an agreement with the goverment here n killin innocent people full stop, or in a cowardly manner like they do nowadays (leavin bombs in cars eg) isn't one of them. He then told us about the followin hadeeth in Bukhari:
Narrated Marwan and al-Miswar bin Makhrama:
(from the companions of Allah's Apostle) When Suhail bin Amr agreed to the Treaty (of Hudaibiya), one of the things he stipulated then, was that the Prophet should return to them (i.e. the pagans) anyone coming to him from their side, even if he was a Muslim; and would not interfere between them and that person. The Muslims did not like this condition and got disgusted with it. Suhail did not agree except with that condition. So, the Prophet agreed to that condition and returned Abu Jandal to his father Suhail bin 'Amr. Thenceforward the Prophet returned everyone in that period (of truce) even if he was a Muslim. During that period some believing women emigrants including Um Kalthum bint Uqba bin Abu Muait who came to Allah's Apostle and she was a young lady then. Her relative came to the Prophet and asked him to return her, but the Prophet did not return her to them for Allah had revealed the following Verse regarding women:
"O you who believe! When the believing women come to you as emigrants. Examine them, Allah knows best as to their belief, then if you know them for true believers, Send them not back to the unbelievers, (for) they are not lawful (wives) for the disbelievers, Nor are the unbelievers lawful (husbands) for them (60.10)
Narrated 'Urwa: Aisha told me, "Allah's Apostle used to examine them according to this Verse: "O you who believe! When the believing women come to you, as emigrants test them . . . for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." (60.10-12) Aisha said, "When any of them agreed to that condition Allah's Apostle would say to her, 'I have accepted your pledge of allegiance.' He would only say that, but, by Allah he never touched the hand of any women (i.e. never shook hands with them) while taking the pledge of allegiance and he never took their pledge of allegiance except by his words (only)."
As we can see from this hadeeth rasolullaah sent back muslims to qureish because of an agreement...
{Then there's the issue of keepin ur word, Allaah tells us in the qur'aan :
'O you who beleive fulfil ur promises/ agreements' Al-maaidah}
Is it part of our agreemnet to stay in this country but plot against them at the same time...not killin non muslims...but muslims too, n what does Allaah tell us bout the one who kills another muslim while he knows...
{'If a man kills a believer intentionally, his recompense is Hell, to abide therein (For ever): And the wrath and the curse of Allah are upon him, and a dreadful penalty is prepared for him.' Nisaa
That should be enough for them to leave it...}
back to the hadeeth did the messenger break his agreement with Qureish because they were kuffaar? course not...
{And also as sis umniyah reminded me of hadeeth in Bukhari n Muslim where rasoullaah alayhi salaatu wassalaam tells us not to shelter/protect the one who has committed a crime, hadeeth invloving one of his wives (i forgot the narrator inshaa'Allaah i'll look for it but it's in umdatul ahkaam)}
N also we have the rule of fiqh of 'akhaff adh-dhararayn' the lighter of the two harmful matters...Is it easy to turn in a few who plot on killin who r goin against the teachings of Islaam anyway or the death of hunderds of people?
n Allaah knows best
*anything between { } is from me, not from sheikh Ahmed As-Subay'ee hafidhahullaah
Last edited by umm-sulaim; 07-10-2007 at 08:21 AM.
wouldnt it have been better to have turned theses people in, as the brother in the video did, the people who the brother was associated with were willing to go to extreme lengths just to prove their point, in time they would have built bombs and allah knows what else, and probably killed many people, isnt it better that this was prevented, after all if they has the brothers had gone ahead with their plans, in would have been the ummah that suffered, as always, the brother in the video was only doing what he thought was best.
I dont know the islamic teaching on turning on your own muslims bro and sis, so allah forgive me if i have said anything wrong.
yeah I kind of agree with u sister but I don’t like the fact that he was getting paid for it it makes me question his true intention. And I feel he could have gone about it in another way. anyways here is something I found on the net.
1) What is the Islamic stand on terrorist attacks, such as those that took place in Madrid on March 11, 2004, NY on September 11, 2001, and repeated "suicide bombings" in Israel?
Terrorism is highly condemned in Islam. Terrorism, defined as the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes directly contradicts Islamic rules which prohibit targeting civilians, even in war. In Islamic law, fighting is to be between armies (combatants), not involving non-combatants, or even infrastructure that affects the lives of non-combatants, such as food sources, water, hospitals, roads, bridges, and other necessities of a civilian population. In fact, "haraba", a Qur'anic term defined as "sowing corruption and chaos on earth", is considered one of the most grievous crimes, subject to severe punishment.
2) Is there anything in the Quran, which encourages the terrorists?
Absolutely nothing in the Quran encourages terrorism. On the contrary, the Quran (Islamic Scripture which Muslims believe is the unchanged word of God) and hadith (Prophet Muhammad's sayings and traditions as recorded by his companions), which are the two primary sources of Islamic law places supremacy on the sacredness of life, security, and peace. Terrorists who base their actions on Islamic law misappropriate Islam, as terrorist anti-abortionists, white supremacists, and certain militia groups misappropriate Christianity.
3) Is there anything in Islam that leads to suicide bombings or terrorism?
Nothing in Islam leads to terrorism or suicide bombings, nor has it ever part of the ethos of Islam's 1400 years of history and traditions. This is a modern day aberration among a few extremists who have taken terrorism as a means for fighting personal wars. Suicide is strongly prohibited in Islam because no one has the right to take away the life that God has given, except God Himself. Committing terrorist acts, which kill innocent civilians, is also prohibited, even during war, especially against women, children, old people, and religious people such as monks and nuns. Even the cutting down of trees, killing animals, and destroying infrastructure are forbidden. In Islam, one can only fight a "just war", which is fought in self-defense, not as an act of aggression and is to be between two groups of military personnel, not with civilians.
4) Where do Muslim extremists get their textual justifications?
Some of the Qur'anic verses which lay out the purpose and nature of war include the following:
To stop oppression: "To those against whom war is made, permission is given to fight, because they are oppressed. Verily, God is Capable of aiding them. They are those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of what is just, for no other reason than that they say, "Our Lord is God." Had God not restrained one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues, temples and mosques wherein God's name if oft-mentioned would have been destroyed. God will certainly aid those who aid His cause. (Qur'an, Chapter 22:39-40). Notice the mention of all houses of worship.
Reference: Al Ijabaat Al Muhimah Fee Al Mashaakil Al Mudlahamah
The truth is that they harm Islaam and further turn people away from it.
The Muslims reached the point where they almost want to cover their faces in order to avoid being attributed to this terrifying group. Islaam is free from it. Even after Jihaad was ordained, the companions of the Prophet never used to go to non-Muslim societies and kill them, never! There is no Jihaad except under the banner of a ruler who has the ability to carry it out.
As for terrorism, by Allaah it is a deficiency on the part of the Muslims, I swear by Allaah, we never see its benefits, rather it is the opposite, it distorts the reputation of Islaam. But if were to act with wisdom, fear Allaah within our own selves firstly and then try to rectify other people's affairs with legislated methods, the results would be positive.
Al 'Alaamah Muhammad ibn Saaleh al 'Uthaymeenالعلامة محمد بن صالح العثيمين –رحمه الله-
Fataawa al A-imah: p.55
فتاوى الائمة: ص:55
Terrorism only causes Muslims living in their own countries to be killed as you are now witnessing. This is not from the affairs of Da'wah, nor is it from the affairs of Jihaad. Likewise bombings and causing destruction, this only draws great evil upon the Muslims as is now happening...
Al 'Alaamah Saaleh ibn Fawzaan Al Fawzaanالعلامة صالح بن فوزان الفوزان
Fataawa al A-imah: p.65
فتاوى الائمة: ص:65
Question: Is it permissible to hijack planes, blow up buildings and carry out revolts [against the government]? Is this considered to be from the essence of Islaam that one loves to act upon? Benefit us, may Allaah reward you.
Answer: These affairs are from the destruction that Islaam prohibits, and it draws a lot of evil upon the Muslims because the non-Muslims take this as grounds to attack the Muslims and annihilate them. It is these actions that non-Muslims have used as justification to dispraise Islaam as being a religion of terrorism, they say this because of such activities.
Islaam prohibits Bombings, destruction and hijacking planes because it causes harm to the Muslims before it does to other than them, and because it is a form of harm that does not contain any benefit.
"How Terrorists Think" is a powerful lecture given by Ahmad Shehab, graduate of "Citizen Academy" held by Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP). Includes fascinating points about the security of Canada, how CSIS and RCMP are involved. What do Muslims feel about the security of Canada? How about the 17 arrested.. is it a big homegrown surprise.. and WHO is the first victim? We have to deal with the act before the axe hits us on the head.
These days if you really pay attention to the news ( that most people here on this forum basically worship) you'll find that every other word is "alleged" or "suspected"
I dont believe any of it to be the truth...buying of dangerous materials or trainning in the mountain somewhere i honestly feel that this is all some hollywood hoax
That what is quite sad to me and we have people on this forum saying nonsense like "somebody wants to kill somebody and all u think about is religion?" thats nonsense utter nonsense
as muslims islam should be the center of our lives no matter so under anycircumstance the first thing that should be thought of is Allah swt and the mercy he sent us in his final messenger salalahu alaihe wa salaam
and our actions should be based on such
with that lets make sure to understand that Allah is the watcher and the knower of all things and it is he who we shall all return to regardless if we want to or if we dont feel like it
every soul shall taste death and every soul shall be held accountable on the day of recompense when the hour arises there is no explaining yourself or saying "well what had happend was" all that is gone
And allah knows best this brothers intentions i believe what he did was wrong because even if u are going to take action against what u assume to be a terror plot than the right percausions need to be taken
at anyrate i believe it to be wrong what he did and i pray that he make tawbah for it and repent for what he has done to his brothers in faith and if he refuses i pray that Allah swt side with those who are helpless and defensless right now under the control of the kafirs the disbelieving souls and truly those who allah sides with are the winners!
at anyrate i believe it to be wrong what he did and i pray that he make tawbah for it and repent for what he has done to his brothers in faith
No doubt you are an expert Mohaddith and know Quraan and Sunnah of RasulAllah PBUH, by heart to reach at this coclusion!
btw you forgot to elaborate how you arrived at this, in Light of Qurranic Ayaat and Ahadith, so could you quote a few and explain the context thereof. thanx in advance
salam
Last edited by doorster; 07-10-2007 at 03:44 AM.
Reason: typos
"How Terrorists Think" is a powerful lecture given by Ahmad Shehab, graduate of "Citizen Academy" held by Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP). Includes fascinating points about the security of Canada, how CSIS and RCMP are involved. What do Muslims feel about the security of Canada? How about the 17 arrested.. is it a big homegrown surprise.. and WHO is the first victim? We have to deal with the act before the axe hits us on the head.
absolute crap i dont get what your trying to acheive but at the end of the day getting paid by kuffrs to spy on your brothers in islam only so that they can be arrested and sent to some kind of concentration camp where they are tortured and pretty well castrated is nothing to do with islam for all any of us know about that matter those 17 people could have easliy been set up by this man some of those people were children youngsters that to me is sadd!!
and than here we have punks saying crap about how we need to take action before the axe hits us on the head
what we have forgotten is that Allah is the ordainer and the best of planners and whatever calamity he has decreed for U will happen to you without doubt and nobody no combination of people can stop it so all this nonsense about stopping the axe before it hits us on the head is just that NONSENSE!
AND ..to begin with there is a definate reason why CSIS approached this brother and im sure it wasnt to have tea! he was being investigated too and just like any chicken head would do he decided instead of taking the heat to let his brothers suffer for him
thats what i think really happend but allah knows better than me and all of us here so its to him that we return and its to him that we answer to
No doubt you are an expert Mohddith and know Quraan and Sunnah of RasulAllah PBUH, by heart to reach at this coclusion!
btw you forgot to elaborate how you arrived at this, in Light of Qurranic Ayaat and Ahadith, so could you quote a few and explain the context thereof. thanx in advance
salam
salaam
it doesnt take a mohadith and an expert or hafiz to come to such a conclusion
i would never call myself such i would never make anyclaims like this however what i do know is that Allah's messenger (pbuh) said in an authentic hadith that the muslims should never befriend the kuffar and what he did is just that
accept their money in exchange for the lives of his brothers in islam
common sense tells me that this is wrong to turn your brothers to an oppressor knowing that they will undergo an unfair trial and that they will suffer and be tormented unjustly and i pray that allah swt the knower of all things side with those who are sincere and do things for his sake and believe in him and submit to him and i pray that he aid those in need of his aid
"How Terrorists Think" is a powerful lecture given by Ahmad Shehab, graduate of "Citizen Academy" held by Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP). Includes fascinating points about the security of Canada, how CSIS and RCMP are involved. What do Muslims feel about the security of Canada? How about the 17 arrested.. is it a big homegrown surprise.. and WHO is the first victim? We have to deal with the act before the axe hits us on the head.
absolute crap i dont get what your trying to acheive but at the end of the day getting paid by kuffrs to spy on your brothers in islam only so that they can be arrested and sent to some kind of concentration camp where they are tortured and pretty well castrated is nothing to do with islam for all any of us know about that matter those 17 people could have easliy been set up by this man some of those people were children youngsters that to me is sadd!!
and than here we have punks saying crap about how we need to take action before the axe hits us on the head
what we have forgotten is that Allah is the ordainer and the best of planners and whatever calamity he has decreed for U will happen to you without doubt and nobody no combination of people can stop it so all this nonsense about stopping the axe before it hits us on the head is just that NONSENSE!
AND ..to begin with there is a definate reason why CSIS approached this brother and im sure it wasnt to have tea! he was being investigated too and just like any chicken head would do he decided instead of taking the heat to let his brothers suffer for him
thats what i think really happend but allah knows better than me and all of us here so its to him that we return and its to him that we answer to
wow! Amazing! did you say you were a Muslimah? oh never mind, it says that in your profile
since you claim to be a Muslimah I insist that you answer my question in previous posts.
whatever calamity he has decreed for U will happen to you without doubt and nobody no combination of people can stop it so all this nonsense about stopping the axe before it hits us on the head is just that NONSENSE!
when you go out, do you leave house unlocked?
when crossing the road, you just walk on without looking out for traffic?
when you fall ill you don't seek treatment?
when you are on a rooftop you just walk off the edge?
no? why not Allah will protect you! wont he?
have you not heard "tie up your camel before you trust in Allah"
Last edited by doorster; 07-10-2007 at 03:20 AM.
Reason: typos etc.
it doesnt take a mohadith and an expert or hafiz to come to such a conclusion
i would never call myself such i would never make anyclaims like this however what i do know is that Allah's messenger (pbuh) said in an authentic hadith that the muslims should never befriend the kuffar and what he did is just that
accept their money in exchange for the lives of his brothers in islam
common sense tells me that this is wrong to turn your brothers to an oppressor knowing that they will undergo an unfair trial and that they will suffer and be tormented unjustly and i pray that allah swt the knower of all things side with those who are sincere and do things for his sake and believe in him and submit to him and i pray that he aid those in need of his aid
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I can't see the video.. but NO, it isn't right to turn your bros. or sister over to a kaffir, in fact those people will have their special day insha'allah.. and I believe there is a hadith confirming that, I am unfortunately not as handy with the hadiths as I am with the Quran, but will try to find it for you insha'Allah...
but I don’t like the fact that he was getting paid for it
it makes me question his true intention. And I feel he could have gone about it in another way. anyways here is something I found on the net.
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