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Womans rights

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    Womans rights (OP)


    found this on another site, interisting and controvertial option peice




    Women's Rights and Equality in Islam

    At the beginning Islam was the most revolutionary liberalization of women's rights the civilized world has ever seen. But afterwards Muslims became ignorant of this and now Muslim countries are the scene of some of the worst abuses of women's rights. As the Latin proverb says, "Corruptio optimi pessima" (When the best is corrupted, it becomes the worst). The Qur’ân expresses the same theme in Sûrat al-Tîn: "We created man in the best pattern, and later reduced him to the lowest of the low."

    Think of the possibilities for liberalization based on purely Islamic sources, not taking anything from the modern West. That would be truly Islamic feminism. The origin of Islam is far more liberal and feminist than what subsequent generations made of it. Women's rights were established by the Qur’ân and the Prophet (peace be upon him), who after all loved women; we need to filter out the spurious anti-woman hadiths that were added later. Although the term feminism has developed a somewhat poisonous connotation in today's discourse, it really just means the promotion of women's God-given rights and liberties, which is to the good of everyone.

    We humans are essentially spiritual souls, and true liberation would begin from that identity. It's a shame that so often in the profane modern world, which only believes in quantity, all relationships are reduced to a zero-sum game of power. If feminism becomes nothing more than a power grab—men hold power over women, so now it's women's turn to seize the power and use it against men in turn—then no one advances any further toward higher enlightenment; the contest stays on the same horizontal level, the same problems recur in new guise with no resolution.

    Men may fear or distrust "feminism" if they think it means nothing more than women gaining control over them. But genuine women's liberation would be liberating for all people, men and women alike. Not an issue of who wields power over whom, but transcending that whole issue of power, lifting our consciousness to a higher plane. A woman who is truly liberated would not be stuck in that old power struggle; she would not seek to control men any more than she would accept being controlled by men. Rather, both men and women would rejoice at being freed to relate to one another as loving, spiritual beings. This is real, and most of all the Sufis have actualized it. This is what the Prophet (peace be upon him) brought, if only that original liberating spirit could be released from under the dead weight of centuries of cultural repression like "purdah", which came not from Islam, but from the concubinage of the ancient Greeks and Romans, where women had no rights and were property owned by their fathers, husbands, and slave masters, so it is nothing but jâhilîyah pretending to be Islam, while Islam established the independent, equal status of women for the first time in civilization.

    No More Denial.
    I have noticed in forums over and over that if Muslims call attention to systemic injustice against women in Muslim countries, they are likely to get attacked and accused of supporting kufr against Islam. This reminds me of the divisive Vietnam War days when if anyone criticized the U.S. government for atrocities in Vietnam, the superpatriots would accuse them of supporting the Commies. It is sad that much of what passes for "Islam" these days is nothing more than mindless jingo flag-waving with no attention to the actual content of what Islam requires of us.

    inna Allâha ya’muru bi-al-‘adli wa-al-ihsân
    "Allah commands justice and the doing of good."


    If some of us protest injustice that is being done in the name of Islam, that is because we love Islam and hate to see its good name being misused as a cover for oppression that is completely contrary to the spirit of Islam. Muslims have to clean up their own act, and insisting on denial of a problem is no service to the ummah. The injustice against women perpetrated by the system of power is very real. Willful blindness to the problem is no excuse for going along with it. If you really care about the essence of Islam, you need to establish justice. The injustice against women in Muslim countries is terrible, and there has been more than enough pious preaching about how Islam is great for women (in an ideal world), and not enough correcting of injustice on the ground. The evil comes from the system that keeps people locked in roles that stunt their growth, the system that unjustly penalizes women who would exercise their rights. As long as it isn't happening to someone you know, it's easy to stay complacent and acquiesce with the conventional system, overlooking its injustice. There has been more than enough (merely verbal) assertion that Islam is good for women. Indeed, true Islam would be good for women, if it were ever implemented properly! There has to be an end to the denial and more attention to the very real injustices that Muslim women are suffering right now. Why are girls left uneducated? What about access to medical treatment? Why are rape victims in Pakistan jailed or murdered while rapists go free? Why do those vicious thugs, the Taliban, think they can get away with beating and confining women? The situation is compounded by the pretense that "Islam" can somehow be the justification for harming women. That is nothing but a slander against the good name of Islam.

    Why focus on the rights of Muslim women only?
    This question sometimes comes up when discussing Muslim women's issues. The reason women's rights in Islam need special concern is because women in Muslim countries are made to suffer disproportionately by the system. What adds insult to injury is the way they try to justify their oppression of women by calling it "Islam." How could it be, when true Islam requires us to honor women? We have to make women's rights a top priority if the society as a whole is ever going to be healed. As Malcolm X said, the fate of a nation depends on how it treats it women. I am careful to emphasize that truly Islamic feminism wouldn't make the error of the modern world by treating human beings as quantities; we are spiritual beings above all. In Islam men and women equally submit to God and both are equally ennobled by the faith. Next, redressing injustice is a divine command: inna Allâha ya’muru bi-al-‘adli wa-al-ihsân.... (Allah commands justice and the doing of good.) When you look to the Qur’ân and the mercifulness of the Messenger, peace be upon him, you can see this beautiful vision of how life could be if selfishness weren't governing human dealings as it does. I am saying that Muslims should make sure to be good to women first of all, since they have been wronged the most. The systemic crimes against women have now increased drastically under those woman-beating Taliban hoodlums. The pain is even more acute right now.

    This is in the spirit of the Prophet's answer to the Sahâbî asking who was most deserving of good treatment and honor: 1) Your mother; 2) your mother; 3) your mother; 4) your father.

    * * *
    A vignette from my Hajj diary.
    Miná, 11 Dhî al-Hijjah 1416/April 29, 1996.
    At the washing faucets at the end of the lavatory building, I have heard some men trying to drive away the women who were using the faucets for wudû’ and washing clothes. There are five faucets, and the men had been using the two or three on the right, the women the one or two on the left, according to their allotted sides of the lavatory building; the one in between was used by either, depending on the traffic of the moment. Some of the men decided that they would take over all five faucets, so they said things like "Hâjjah! Harâm!" Both times I saw this, I said out loud, "Lâ ba’s, lil-akhawât huqûquhunna." The sisters went and lined up alongside the building, waiting for their oppressors to go. When I would come back later, they would be using the left side faucets again. The unfair mentality of these brothers is not Islam. People use the word "harâm" much too freely. It should be limited to its technical meaning as defined in Islamic law.


    * * *

    The Prophet, peace be upon him, loved women. How horrified he would be to see the wretched way so many in his ummah have been mistreating them.



    Maryams.Net - Muslim Women and Their Islam

    - http://members.aol.com/yahyam/equality.html
    Womans rights


  2. #21
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    Re: Womans rights

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    format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum View Post
    Wrong? There are no country that uses "Your Laws", so it is no different than "No Law".
    O really Billy boy?

    [PIE]How is Islamic personal law implemented today?
    Islamic principles still form the foundations of the legal code governing marriage, divorce, and inheritance in most Islamic nations. On the other hand, many nations have changed classical sharia restrictions, often to expand the rights of women. Such changes have become a major human rights and women's rights issue in the Muslim world, pitting reformists--who want to modernize the law and bring it into line with international norms--against Islamists, "who want the restoration of Islamic law lock, stock, and barrel," Powers says.

    What are the traditional sharia laws governing personal status issues?
    Marriage: Islamic marriage is a contract between a man and a woman. In the broadest of terms, the husband pledges to support his wife in exchange for her obedience, Brown says. Women can demand certain rights by writing them into the marriage contract, but the man is the head of the family, and traditionally, a wife may not act against her husband's wishes. (The Quran permits men to use physical force against disobedient wives in some circumstances, Powers says.) Traditional practices still have significant impact on modern law: in Yemen and other nations, a woman cannot work if her husband expressly forbids it. In Syria, a wife can work without her husband's consent, if she renounces her claim on him for financial support. Undersharia, a Muslim woman cannot be married legally to a non-Muslim man, but a Muslim man can be married to a non-Muslim woman. Marriages can traditionally take place at young ages--in Iran, the age of consent is 13 for females and 15 for males, and younger with a court's permission. In Yemen, the minimum marriage age is 15.

    Divorce: Under sharia, the husband has the unilateral right to divorce his wife without cause. He can accomplish this by uttering the phrase "I divorce you" three times over the course of three months. If he does divorce her, he must pay her a sum of money agreed to before the wedding in the marriage contract and permit her to keep her dowry, Powers says. Classicalsharia lays out very limited conditions under which a woman can divorce a man--he must be infertile at the time of marriage; insane; or have leprosy or another contagious skin disease. Most Islamic nations, including Egypt and Iran, now allow women to sue for divorce for many other reasons, including the failure to provide financial support.

    Polygamy:
    The Quran gives men the right to have up to four wives. There are some traditional limitations: a man must treat all co-wives equitably, provide them with separate dwellings, and acknowledge in a marriage contract his other spouses, if any. A woman cannot forbid the practice, but can insist on a divorce if her husband takes a second wife. Polygamy remains on the books in most Islamic countries, but some countries limit it through legislation. It is banned in Tunisia and Turkey, though reportedly it is still practiced in some areas of Turkey.
    Custody: In a divorce, the children traditionally belong to the father, but the mother has the right to care for them while they are young, Powers says. The age at which a mother loses custody differs from nation to nation. In Iran, the mother's custody ends at seven for boys and girls; in Pakistan, it's seven for boys and puberty for girls. Many nations, however, allow courts to extend the mother's custody if it is deemed in the child's interest.

    Inheritance: Mothers, wives, and daughters are guaranteed an inheritance in the case of a man's death. In the seventh century A.D., when the law was developed, this was a major step forward for women, Powers says. However, sharia also dictates that men inherit twice the share of women because, traditionally, men were responsible for women, Powers says.
    Are non-Muslims bound by personal status sharia courts?

    Generally speaking, no. Minorities in Muslim nations are generally governed under separate personal-status laws reflecting their own traditions, experts say. In Egypt, for example, Coptic Christians marry under Christian law, and foreigners marry under the laws of their countries of origin, Brown says. Criminal law, which is generally no longer based on sharia, applies to both foreigners and citizens.

    [/PIE]


    Unfortunately it is not fully implemented by any Islamic nation, but the Shairah laws are still being applied.
    Last edited by InToTheRain; 09-07-2007 at 11:03 PM.
    Womans rights

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    Re: Womans rights

    ^^^what does this bunk have to do with women's rights in Islam?.. I swore off this section for the month of Ramadan.. I can't help but be amused in the occasion I see one of these threads on main.

    If the law isn't enforced by the state, it will be enforced by the next best thing which is the family, if not the family then the individual, if not in the individual where can be visibly seen and acted, then in the heart which is the weakest form ( ad3af al-iman)
    Islamic laws are very much implemented by units that choose to follow guidance until such a time when an Islamic state enforces the rights of the individual..
    You want to know how opressed Muslim women are whether under the empire or in a family unit? ... I suggest you ask them!..
    There was a time when a whole army would rise for the honor of just one woman mal-treated.. now they get raped by the handful while secular law applauds.. Govt. and political units only look for ways to decriminalize savagery.

    Isn't it about time we took out the refuse on these threads? Or are the Muslims conjointly torpid?

    Last edited by جوري; 09-07-2007 at 10:52 PM.
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    Re: Womans rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid View Post
    O really Billy boy?

    [PIE]How is Islamic personal law implemented today?
    Islamic principles still form the foundations of the legal code governing marriage, divorce, and inheritance in most Islamic nations. On the other hand, many nations have changed classical sharia restrictions, often to expand the rights of women. Such changes have become a major human rights and women's rights issue in the Muslim world, pitting reformists--who want to modernize the law and bring it into line with international norms--against Islamists, "who want the restoration of Islamic law lock, stock, and barrel," Powers says.

    What are the traditional sharia laws governing personal status issues?
    Marriage: Islamic marriage is a contract between a man and a woman. In the broadest of terms, the husband pledges to support his wife in exchange for her obedience, Brown says. Women can demand certain rights by writing them into the marriage contract, but the man is the head of the family, and traditionally, a wife may not act against her husband's wishes. (The Quran permits men to use physical force against disobedient wives in some circumstances, Powers says.) Traditional practices still have significant impact on modern law: in Yemen and other nations, a woman cannot work if her husband expressly forbids it. In Syria, a wife can work without her husband's consent, if she renounces her claim on him for financial support. Undersharia, a Muslim woman cannot be married legally to a non-Muslim man, but a Muslim man can be married to a non-Muslim woman. Marriages can traditionally take place at young ages--in Iran, the age of consent is 13 for females and 15 for males, and younger with a court's permission. In Yemen, the minimum marriage age is 15.
    Divorce: Under sharia, the husband has the unilateral right to divorce his wife without cause. He can accomplish this by uttering the phrase "I divorce you" three times over the course of three months. If he does divorce her, he must pay her a sum of money agreed to before the wedding in the marriage contract and permit her to keep her dowry, Powers says. Classicalsharia lays out very limited conditions under which a woman can divorce a man--he must be infertile at the time of marriage; insane; or have leprosy or another contagious skin disease. Most Islamic nations, including Egypt and Iran, now allow women to sue for divorce for many other reasons, including the failure to provide financial support.
    Polygamy: The Quran gives men the right to have up to four wives. There are some traditional limitations: a man must treat all co-wives equitably, provide them with separate dwellings, and acknowledge in a marriage contract his other spouses, if any. A woman cannot forbid the practice, but can insist on a divorce if her husband takes a second wife. Polygamy remains on the books in most Islamic countries, but some countries limit it through legislation. It is banned in Tunisia and Turkey, though reportedly it is still practiced in some areas of Turkey.
    Custody: In a divorce, the children traditionally belong to the father, but the mother has the right to care for them while they are young, Powers says. The age at which a mother loses custody differs from nation to nation. In Iran, the mother's custody ends at seven for boys and girls; in Pakistan, it's seven for boys and puberty for girls. Many nations, however, allow courts to extend the mother's custody if it is deemed in the child's interest.
    Inheritance: Mothers, wives, and daughters are guaranteed an inheritance in the case of a man's death. In the seventh century A.D., when the law was developed, this was a major step forward for women, Powers says. However, sharia also dictates that men inherit twice the share of women because, traditionally, men were responsible for women, Powers says.
    Are non-Muslims bound by personal status sharia courts?
    Generally speaking, no. Minorities in Muslim nations are generally governed under separate personal-status laws reflecting their own traditions, experts say. In Egypt, for example, Coptic Christians marry under Christian law, and foreigners marry under the laws of their countries of origin, Brown says. Criminal law, which is generally no longer based on sharia, applies to both foreigners and citizens.

    [/PIE]


    Unfortunately it is not fully implemented by any Islamic nation, but the Shairah laws are still being applied.
    Great post.. thanks
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    Re: Womans rights

    Z.AL-Rashid
    I quit when I saw:
    most Islamic nations
    I have been informed many times that there are no Islamic Nations'
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    Re: Womans rights

    ^^ you should quit period and give us all a break from this quality of wearisome monotony..
    Womans rights

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    Re: Womans rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia View Post
    ^^ you should quit period and give us all a break from this quality of wearisome monotony..
    I think that is good advise, you should follow it.

    Or is it your usual intention to get the thread closed?
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    Re: Womans rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum View Post
    Z.AL-Rashid
    I quit when I saw:

    I have been informed many times that there are no Islamic Nations'
    It is wrong to say their is no Islamic Nation, nations where the majority of the people are Muslims are Islamic nations. BUT! There is not nation which fully implements Shariah, whith a Khalif (Leader of the Muslim nations), hence people say there is no Islamic nation. In other words we have no Khilafah.
    Last edited by InToTheRain; 09-08-2007 at 12:35 AM.
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    Re: Womans rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum View Post
    I think that is good advise, you should follow it.

    Or is it your usual intention to get the thread closed?
    Every thread you and your ilk partake in, is as good as tripe and should in fact be binned...
    It will be a cold day in hell with its devils ice skating when you part something of substance!
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    Re: Womans rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid View Post
    It is wrong to say their is no Islamic Nation, nations where the majority of the people are Muslims are Islamic nations. BUT! There is not nation which fully implements Shariah hence people say there is no Islamic nation.
    So then to talk about Shariah Law is invalid.

    We are back to the laws of the country.

    Those laws may or may not be the same as Shariah.

    Cut it anyway you want it, the law of the government is what is inforced by the government.
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    Re: Womans rights

    Here we go agin.
    You insult me.
    I post to the topic.
    I respond to you insult.
    You insult me.
    I post to the topic.
    Etc Etc Etc
    You didn't do very well on the "How about" thread, so now you are back to your old tricks.
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    Re: Womans rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum View Post
    So then to talk about Shariah Law is invalid.

    We are back to the laws of the country.

    Those laws may or may not be the same as Shariah.

    Cut it anyway you want it, the law of the government is what is inforced by the government.
    The Laws are still valid as they are implemented as I have mentioned before. Re-Read post #24, it explains the Laws implemented from Shariah regarding those Issues and those laws are enforced by the goverment in those nations. It is the law of the Islamic nations regarding those Issues. Not everything is black and white wilbie boy

    format_quote Originally Posted by PurestAmbrosia View Post
    ^^^what does this bunk have to do with women's rights in Islam?.. I swore off this section for the month of Ramadan.. I can't help but be amused in the occasion I see one of these threads on main.

    If the law isn't enforced by the state, it will be enforced by the next best thing which is the family, if not the family then the individual, if not in the individual where can be visibly seen and acted, then in the heart which is the weakest form ( ad3af al-iman)
    Islamic laws are very much implemented by units that choose to follow guidance until such a time when an Islamic state enforces the rights of the individual..
    You want to know how opressed Muslim women are whether under the empire or in a family unit? ... I suggest you ask them!..
    There was a time when a whole army would rise for the honor of just one woman mal-treated.. now they get raped by the handful while secular law applauds.. Govt. and political units only look for ways to decriminalize savagery.

    Isn't it about time we took out the refuse on these threads? Or are the Muslims conjointly torpid?

    Couldn't agree more
    Last edited by InToTheRain; 09-07-2007 at 11:25 PM.
    Womans rights

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    If he reign king of all the land, I will reign king at sea."

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    Re: Womans rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid View Post
    The Laws are still valid as they are implemented as I have mentioned before. Re-Read post #24, it explains the Laws implemented from Shariah regarding those Issues and those laws are enforced by the goverment in those nations. It is the law of the Islamic nations regarding those Issues. Not everything is black and white wilbie boy
    The laws are valid because they were implemented by the government.
    So you have the laws of the government.
    If a Sharian law is not implemented, it is not a law of the land. That simple.
    If they get there laws from Moby Dick, they will also be a law of the land.
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    Re: Womans rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum View Post
    The laws are valid because they were implemented[ by the government.
    So you have the laws of the government.
    If a Sharian law is not implemented, it is not a law of the land. That simple.
    If they get there laws from Moby Dick, they will also be a law of the land.
    LOL wilber your making me laugh man. Have you actually read my posts thus far? Answer honestly I, I won't bite
    I say this because I have clearly stated that the Laws of Sharia are Implemented, but not fully! I gave examples of which laws from Sharia are implemented. But the Laws of Shariah are not Implemented to other issues such as commerce and foreign policy for example. So it is not BLACK and WHITE. SHariah is still being used but not fully is all.

    Quote from deleted post removed

    LOL that made me laugh as the thought occured that Wilber might use it instead of his usual
    Last edited by Woodrow; 09-08-2007 at 11:28 AM. Reason: Quote from deleted post removed
    Womans rights

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    Re: Womans rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid View Post
    It is wrong to say their is no Islamic Nation, nations where the majority of the people are Muslims are Islamic nations. BUT! There is not nation which fully implements Shariah, whith a Khalif (Leader of the Muslim nations), hence people say there is no Islamic nation. In other words we have no Khilafah.
    Edit on post ^:
    Womans rights

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    Re: Womans rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by Z.AL-Rashid View Post
    LOL wilber your making me laugh man. Have you actually read my posts thus far? Answer honestly I, I won't bite
    I say this because I have clearly stated that the Laws of Sharia are Implemented, but not fully! I gave examples of which laws from Sharia are implemented. But the Laws of Shariah are not Implemented to other issues such as commerce and foreign policy for example. So it is not BLACK and WHITE. SHariah is still being used but not fully is all.

    Quote from deleted post removed

    LOL that made me laugh as the thought occured that Wilber might use it instead of his usual
    But I love my skeleton. It says a lot.

    You may continue to believe a law is some book that is not incoperated into any law of any country has some great value.

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    Re: Womans rights

    only those who understand the mentality/body/sentiments/physical ability etc etc of both genders can truelly prescribe a method in which both are EQUALLY UPLIFTED but in DIFFERENT WAYS !


    ive noticed many non-muslims find it extremely difficult to grasp that although men and women do not sit in the same room, doing the same job, drinking from the SAME CUP OF BLASTED TEA they do indeed have their own seperate rights which ascertains their equalitY!


    oh and Wilberhum: lol, your funny, if you analyse the posts you'll see that his saying the laws are implemented by the individuals and given enough sanctity by the muslim community to be seen as a truelly binding code of life. This same code of life results in a better life for women. If it was implemented by the country then the non-muslim women will act oppressed due to the sheer amount of brainwashing they have gone through by stupid perverted old nasty men and the media.
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    Re: Womans rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by IbnAbdulHakim View Post
    only those who understand the mentality/body/sentiments/physical ability etc etc of both genders can truelly prescribe a method in which both are EQUALLY UPLIFTED but in DIFFERENT WAYS !


    ive noticed many non-muslims find it extremely difficult to grasp that although men and women do not sit in the same room, doing the same job, drinking from the SAME CUP OF BLASTED TEA they do indeed have their own seperate rights which ascertains their equalitY!


    oh and Wilberhum: lol, your funny, if you analyse the posts you'll see that his saying the laws are implemented by the individuals and given enough sanctity by the muslim community to be seen as a truelly binding code of life. This same code of life results in a better life for women. If it was implemented by the country then the non-muslim women will act oppressed due to the sheer amount of brainwashing they have gone through by stupid perverted old nasty men and the media.
    You may continue to believe a law is some book that is not incoperated into any law of any country has some great value.
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    Re: Womans rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum View Post
    I found out a long time ago that there is no end to what people will believe.
    Some even believe in UFO
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    Re: Womans rights

    format_quote Originally Posted by wilberhum View Post
    You may continue to believe a law is some book that is not incoperated into any law of any country has some great value.
    LOL, another baseless statement clearly reflecting your ignorance on the matter. What is it you find incapable of understanding in my previous posts? The FACT that Shariah Law is still implemented TODAY in Muslim Countries is not DISPUTED!
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    Re: Womans rights


    i think the word equality is something which can be used in many ways i mean we can say why dont be see women builder bums instead of men....i mean if there is to be equality in that way... and women walking around in swimming trunks....
    i think equality is different for both males and females keepin in mind there weaknesses and strenghts generally..
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