Persecution of China's Muslims worse than Tibet!

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The Chinese government wishes to control all religions, and will not stop at it. Islam is no exception.

So, Islam is not the reason for the persecution...

Not really. It's mainly about ethnicity. For example, when the Hui and a majority of the Miao tribes revolted against the Manchu Qing dynasty, 12 million Hui (there are 9 million today) were exterminated, as well as 5 million Miao (12 million existing today). The Miao are mainly Shamanist and Buddhist, with a few Christians. If you have noticed, prior to the advent of the Maoists, the Chinese were highly tolerant when it came to religion. Most are syncretic.

Of course, The Maoists don't want any new religions such as Falun Gong popping up. Erasing religions was impossible during the cultural movement, so they've decided to prevent new religions which might be a threat. Falun Gong is considered a threat due to their adherents allegience to Mr Lee rather than the state. The atheist government will do whatever it takes to discourage and control religion.
 
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The Chinese government wishes to control all religions, and will not stop at it. Islam is no exception.



Not really. It's mainly about ethnicity. For example, when the Hui and a majority of the Miao tribes revolted against the Manchu Qing dynasty, 12 million Hui (there are 9 million today) were exterminated, as well as 5 million Miao (12 million existing today). The Miao are mainly Shamanist and Buddhist, with a few Christians. If you have noticed, prior to the advent of the Maoists, the Chinese were highly tolerant when it came to religion. Most are syncretic.

Of course, The Maoists don't want any new religions such as Falun Gong popping up. Erasing religions was impossible during the cultural movement, so they've decided to prevent new religions which might be a threat. Falun Gong is considered a threat due to their adherents allegience to Mr Lee rather than the state. The atheist government will do whatever it takes to discourage and control religion.

I think, for the Communist government....as long as the religious group doesnt cause a threat to the government...it's ok....

I've heard that the Catholics are not allowed to have Pope as their leaders, because the Pope is not a Chinese, let alone the leader of China's Communist Party.... Thus there is Chinese Catholicism there replacing the actual church...
 
Well, the disagreement is over the appointment of the archbishop. The Maoists have appointed one who's loyal to them, while the Pope has appointed one who's loyal to him.
 
Of course, The Maoists don't want any new religions such as Falun Gong popping up. Erasing religions was impossible during the cultural movement, so they've decided to prevent new religions which might be a threat. Falun Gong is considered a threat due to their adherents allegience to Mr Lee rather than the state. The atheist government will do whatever it takes to discourage and control religion.

That's a pretty good assessment, although I suspect Mao would be turning in his grave to hear the present regime described as 'Maoist'!

I'm not sure the 'atheist' part is really that relevant, though. It's just a matter of restricting who has any sort of control, direct or indirect, over the people. As you point out, they don't have to ban religion if they can control it; indeed the latter is the more effective option. Hence the 'official' fake Panchen Lama (and no doubt Dalai Lama once the present one dies), 'official' fake archbishop, and so on. It's a farce, but the rest of the world is too worried about upsetting the Chinese to do anything about it.
 
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:sl:
So, realistically speaking, is there anything we can do to stop this?
 
:wasalamex

Jihad!

It's China you're dealing with. What else can you do?

And yet you are facing a regime that
1) Has Nukes. Lots of Nukes
2) Will happily massacre millions of their OWN people. At the drop of a hat.
Think of this as hyperbole if you wish. Its historical fact. The graves are there, the people who lived through this are alive. Talk to them if you doubt it.
China, put simply will turn any and all islamic countries who it even thinks of as a threat to it into a large pool of melted irradiated glass at the first oppotunity.
The leadership is neither sane, logical or restrained. Push them with a "Jihad" and threaten their soverigty and they will respond with stupid amounts of overkill. China is not America who will wring hands at every mistaken death and crawl about abasing itself at its faults.
Its a utterly different kettle of fish. Millions upon millions of martyers await a misunderstanding of China.
 
I wasn't being serious.

I'm sure half or one century from now China will undergo a major revolution. Maybe even longer. But it will occur, it's inevitable.

We got hammered by China during our war with them during the early 60's, btw.
 
won't work that much, most 'foreign' religions have been absorbed and made into culture...
 
:sl:
So, realistically speaking, is there anything we can do to stop this?

:w:

Best thing to do would be to give it as much media coverage as possible, by putting everything under the microscope and on the tv will make the world more aware and china unpopular. It may not make them change their stance but it sure will not help their image and thus maybe make them think a bit about how they should go about it.
 
Just to point out as well, China is NOT an Atheist Country. It's a country that has made the Party the Religion.
It has scripture, hymns, a deity, places of worship, symbology religious schools, clergy and matras and dogma.
It's managed to make a religion out of ideology, like the Nazis or Juche.
Well China is officially atheist.
 
Webster's definition of religion:

Re*li"gion\ (r[-e]*l[i^]j"[u^]n), n. [F., from L. religio; cf. religens pious, revering the gods, Gr. 'ale`gein to heed, have a care. Cf. Neglect.]
1. The outward act or form by which men indicate their recognition of the existence of a god or of gods having power over their destiny, to whom obedience, service, and honor are due; the feeling or expression of human love, fear, or awe of some superhuman and overruling power, whether by profession of belief, by observance of rites and ceremonies, or by the conduct of life; a system of faith and worship; a manifestation of piety; as, ethical religions; monotheistic religions; natural religion; revealed religion; the religion of the Jews; the religion of idol worshipers.
An orderly life so far as others are able to observe us is now and then produced by prudential motives or by dint of habit; but without seriousness there can be no religious principle at the bottom, no course of conduct from religious motives; in a word, there can be no religion. --Paley.
Religion [was] not, as too often now, used as equivalent for godliness; but . . . it expressed the outer form and embodiment which the inward spirit of a true or a false devotion assumed. --Trench.
Religions, by which are meant the modes of divine worship proper to different tribes, nations, or communities, and based on the belief held in common by the members of them severally. . . . There is no living religion without something like a doctrine. On the other hand, a doctrine, however elaborate, does not constitute a religion. --C. P. Tiele (Encyc. Brit.).
Religion . . . means the conscious relation between man and God, and the expression of that relation in human conduct. --J. K["o]stlin (Schaff-Herzog Encyc.)
After the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee. --Acts xxvi. 5.
The image of a brute, adorned With gay religions full of pomp and gold. --Milton.
2. Specifically, conformity in faith and life to the precepts inculcated in the Bible, respecting the conduct of life and duty toward God and man; the Christian faith and practice.
Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. --Washington.
Religion will attend you . . . as a pleasant and useful companion in every proper place, and every temperate occupation of life. --Buckminster.
3. (R. C. Ch.) A monastic or religious order subject to a regulated mode of life; the religious state; as, to enter religion. --Trench.
A good man was there of religion. --Chaucer.
4. Strictness of fidelity in conforming to any practice, as if it were an enjoined rule of conduct. [R.]
Those parts of pleading which in ancient times might perhaps be material, but at this time are become only mere styles and forms, are still continued with much religion. --Sir M. Hale.
Note: Religion, as distinguished from theology, is subjective, designating the feelings and acts of men which relate to God; while theology is objective, and denotes those ideas which man entertains respecting the God whom he worships, especially his systematized views of God. As distinguished from morality, religion denotes the influences and motives to human duty which are found in the character and will of God, while morality describes the duties to man, to which true religion always influences. As distinguished from piety, religion is a high sense of moral obligation and spirit of reverence or worship which affect the heart of man with respect to the Deity, while piety, which first expressed the feelings of a child toward a parent, is used for that filial sentiment of veneration and love which we owe to the Father of all. As distinguished from sanctity, religion is the means by which sanctity is achieved, sanctity denoting primarily that purity of heart and life which results from habitual communion with God, and a sense of his continual presence.
Natural religion, a religion based upon the evidences of a God and his qualities, which is supplied by natural phenomena. See Natural theology, under Natural.
Religion of humanity, a name sometimes given to a religion founded upon positivism as a philosophical basis.
Revealed religion, that which is based upon direct communication of God's will to mankind; especially, the Christian religion, based on the revelations recorded in the Old and New Testaments.
 
Well China is officially atheist.

is it..? I thought only one nation ever declared itself as an official atheist nation on earth - Albania. And now Albania is no longer officially Atheistic.

I've seen documentary about Chinese New Year on the Discovery Channel last nite... people in Beijing went to the oldest Taoist temple in tens of thousands... Mao Tse Tung's cultural revolution could never defeat the religions...
 
Just FYI since it pertained to the topic. Link to full article is below.

Wary of Islam, China Tightens a Vise of Rules

A People’s Liberation Army political poster in a town in Xinjiang, China, a region largely inhabited by Uighurs, an ethnic group uneasy with the government’s rule.


By EDWARD WONG
Published: October 18, 2008

KHOTAN, China — The grand mosque that draws thousands of Muslims each week in this oasis town has all the usual trappings of piety: dusty wool carpets on which to kneel in prayer, a row of turbans and skullcaps for men without headwear, a wall niche facing the holy city of Mecca in the Arabian desert.

Khotan’s mosque draws thousands of Muslims each week. In Kashgar, Uighurs prepared to break their daily fast during Ramadan last month.
But large signs posted by the front door list edicts that are more Communist Party decrees than Koranic doctrines.

The imam’s sermon at Friday Prayer must run no longer than a half-hour, the rules say. Prayer in public areas outside the mosque is forbidden. Residents of Khotan are not allowed to worship at mosques outside of town.

One rule on the wall says that government workers and nonreligious people may not be “forced” to attend services at the mosque — a generous wording of a law that prohibits government workers and Communist Party members from going at all.


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/19/w..._r=1&scp=1&sq=china muslim&st=cse&oref=slogin
 
China Restricts Islam

With prayers banned in public areas, private hajj trips not allowed, teaching of the Noble Qur'an not allowed in private and students and government officials forced to eat during Ramadan, China is enforcing laws and regulations restricting the practice of Islam.

"Of course this makes people angry," Mohammad, a teacher, told The New York Times on Sunday, October 19.

"Excitable people think the government is wrong in what it does. They say that government officials who are Muslims should also be allowed to pray."

In recent week, Chinese authorities have enforced laws restricting the ability of Muslims in the northwestern region of Xinjiang from practicing their faith.

In Khotan, signs posted in front of the grand mosque say the weekly Friday prayer sermon must not extend beyond than a half-hour.

Prayers in public areas outside the mosque is forbidden and residents are banned from worshipping at mosques outside their town.

Under the rules, imams are banned from teaching the Qur'an in private and only official versions of the Qur'an are allowed.

Studying Arabic is only allowed at special government schools.

Government workers are banned from showing the slightest sign of religious devotion.

For example, a Muslim civil servant could be sacked for donning hijab.

Many of the rules have been on the books for years, but local authorities have publicly highlighted them in recent weeks with banners hanged in towns.

They began posting regulations mandating women not to wear hijab and men to shave their beards.

Uighur Muslims are a Turkish-speaking minority of more than eight million in Xinjiang, a northwest vast area that borders Central Asia.

Atheist China recognizes five religions — Islam, Protestantism, Catholicism, Taoism and Buddhism — and tightly regulates their administration and practice.


Official Hajj


Under the rules, two of Islam's five pillars – the Ramadan fasting and hajj – are strictly controlled.

Students and government workers are compelled to eat during the holy fasting month of Ramadan.

China has also revived a law prohibiting Muslims from arranging their own trips to Saudi Arabia to perform hajj.

Signs painted on mud-brick walls in the winding alleyways of old Kashgar warn against making "illegal" hajj.

"Implement the policy of organized and planned pilgrimage; individual pilgrimage is forbidden," reads a red banner hanging on a large mosque in Urumqi, the regional capital of Xinjiang.

Authorities have also confiscated passports of Uighur Muslims across Xinjiang to force them to join government-run hajj tours rather than their own trips.

Once a person files an application, the authorities do a background check into the family.

If the applicant has children, the children must be old enough to be financially self-sufficient, and the applicant is required to show that he/she has substantial savings in the bank.

To get a passport to go on an official hajj or a business trip, applicants must leave a deposit of nearly $6,000.

Now virtually no Uighurs have passports, though they can apply for them for short trips.

This has made life especially difficult for businessmen who travel to neighboring countries.

Critics say the
government is trying to restrict contacts with world Muslims, fearing that could highlight the sufferings of Muslims in Xinjiang and possibly build pressures on China.

Source from http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/S...News/NWELayout
 
I wasn't being serious.

I'm sure half or one century from now China will undergo a major revolution. Maybe even longer. But it will occur, it's inevitable.

We got hammered by China during our war with them during the early 60's, btw.

:sl:you're the Khan, you should summon the hordes! Even China can't withstand half a million horse archers pouring over the great wall, as was shown last time...
 
is it..? I thought only one nation ever declared itself as an official atheist nation on earth - Albania. And now Albania is no longer officially Atheistic.

I've seen documentary about Chinese New Year on the Discovery Channel last nite... people in Beijing went to the oldest Taoist temple in tens of thousands... Mao Tse Tung's cultural revolution could never defeat the religions...
Albania's declaration was dramatic, but China is officially atheist.
While the People's Republic of China is officially atheist it does allow religion under strict supervision.

http://ch.tudelft.nl/china2006/?page=china/people_and_religion
 

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