The Kashmir conflict

[Hajar]

Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh brothers &nd Sisters,

I would like to start a discussion about the Kashmir conflict. Kashmir has been at the heart of a territorial dispute between India and Pakistan since the two nations gained their independence in 1947. Both claim Kashmir.

For more than half a century, the conflict has claimed the lives of 100,000 Kashmiris ...over the world's highest battlefield of glacial ice and snow.

What do you think or know about this conflict?
Do you think Kashmir should be an independent country?

Here i show a couple of pictures that are made trough this whole conflict and shows that its a very big problem. It almost seems like a forgotten place, were terrible unhuman situations are common.

Wa alaykum assalamu wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

(AFP photographer Tauseef Mustafa received the Award of Excellence from the National Press Photographers Best of Journalism International Contest for his photo of relatives mourning the death of a Kashmiri youth. With permission of the photographer.)

(Srinagar police beat up a protestor)

(Kashmir freedom fighters)

(Torture has been used routinely by all the security forces operating in Kashmir. Human rights groups in Kashmir have documented more than three hundred cases of "disappearances" since 1990)

(Kashmiri civilians have suffered abuses from both sides, Pakistan and India)

 

[Munda Pakistani]

India was partitioned on the basis that all Muslim-majority states would go to Pakistan, others to India. The state of Kashmir was overwhelmingly Muslim majority, but had a Sikh ruler, Maharajah Hari Singh. He acceded to India. The merits of that accession are contested.

Make sure you check out the FAQ here if you have any questions; it's excellent and very comprehensive. (For those of you who know about THIMUN, it helped me crucify a lot of people :smile: )

http://www.infopak.gov.pk/public/kashmir/kashmir.htm

A chronology of the Kashmir dispute:
http://www.pakalert.net/articles/kashmir_dispute.asp

All official documents related to Kashmir:
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/sasia.htm

Human Rights Watch Report on human rights violations by Indian occupation forces:
http://www.hrw.org/reports/1999/kashmir/

 

[Munda Pakistani]

Sorry, forgot to finish the summary in my last post. Mods, how about an Edit Post button?

Ah forget it. I can't be bothered. Check out the links; you'll find everything there anyway.

 

[Hajar]

India have been illegally occupying them for the last 50 years and through their state terrorism have oppressed them. Alhamdulillaah the mujahideen in Kashmir and pakistan have been resisting and fighting back, may Allaah subhaanhahu'wa'ta'Allaah aid them.

thanks for your reply on this thread brothers, there are still people who give this matter a thought.

Ok refering to the quote, you say that india is occupying a part of kashmir and that the Kashmiri andPakistani mujahideen is fighting against them. So the people in kashmir consider themself a part of Pakistan, you say.

But why did the Kashmiri mujahideen, placed bombs in the pakistani city of Islamabad.. dont you think that they feel oppresed too by the Pakistani goverment.. otherwise why would they that?

 

[S_87]

kashmir should be independent or with pakistan. not with india

 

[Hajar]

kashmir should be independent or with pakistan. not with india

ok i understand i asume you say that because Pakistan is Islamic and India not.. or you see kashmir as an Pakistan ground ??

 

[S_87]

ok i understand i asume you say that because Pakistan is Islamic and India not.. or you see kashmir as an Pakistan ground ??

not islamic- just kahmir is better off as part of pakistan than india i guess :-\

 

[Hajar]

not islamic- just kahmir is better off as part of pakistan than india i guess :-\

Yep ok maybe thats true...

 

[Munda Pakistani]

thanks for your reply on this thread brothers, there are still people who give this matter a thought.

Ok refering to the quote, you say that india is occupying a part of kashmir and that the Kashmiri andPakistani mujahideen is fighting against them. So the people in kashmir consider themself a part of Pakistan, you say.

But why did the Kashmiri mujahideen, placed bombs in the pakistani city of Islamabad.. dont you think that they feel oppresed too by the Pakistani goverment.. otherwise why would they that?

Bottomline: Kashmir rightfully should be a part of Pakistan. Look at the dispute from all sides, and you'll discover that Pakistan's case is strong. That alone should be enough to decide Kashmir's fate. Nothing else should matter.

That said, did Kashmir Mujahideen really bomb Islamabad? Are you sure it was not an Indian terrorist disguised as one(India has certain "consulates" in Afghanistan serving that very purpose), or terrorists coming into Balochistan from Iran, or Mossad? I know to a casual reader unaware of the Pakistani environemnt and history, this sounds paranoid; it would to me. But this is not just crazy conspiracy theory; it has been written about constantly, and any analyst will tell you it's true.

Now, let's assume it was a Kashmiri. First of all, he wouldn't be a Mujahid; bombing Islamabad to kill innocent people is not Jihad, as Im sure all Muslims know. Second of all, can one bombing be used to generalise the feelings of the entire Kashmiri people?

The recent earthquake catastrophe is a case in point; 1500 dead in Indian-administered Kashmir, more than 50,000 in Pakistan, with the death toll still rising. Yet the response of the government, and the general public, was starkly different, and quite an eye opener for those who didn't already know - indifference from both governemnt and public in India; extensive action by Pakistan, and an absolutely remarkable response by the Pakistan people, with Kashmir being flooded with relief goods and volunteers from all over Pakistan. Some even compare this with the passion that the 1965 war created(That was when people tied bombs to their chests to lie down under Indian tanks, took off to the warfronts with cricket bats and hockeys as weapons, crime almost came to a standstill......I could go on, but you get the picture). I would say that's an exaggeration, but the very fact that it can be compared to '65 by analysts speaks volumes. The Pakistani people feel a certain brotherhood with the Kashmiri people, and vice versa.

I must admit, though, that the Kashmiri people today are not as attached to Pakistan as before; analysts say if there was a plebiscite now, a free Kashmir might just edge the Pakistan option. But we must return to the basic fact; going by all laws of justice, Kashmir should be a part of Pakistan. And, ofcourse, an independent Kashmir is not likely to be able to survive on its own, another thing analysts agree on.

 

[Sanobar]

not islamic- just kahmir is better off as part of pakistan than india i guess :-\

yep thats true...... atleast pakistan will terat kasmir and one of their states ...in india its worse...they dotn even treat it as one.......!

 

[Hajar]

I must admit, though, that the Kashmiri people today are not as attached to Pakistan as before; analysts say if there was a plebiscite now, a free Kashmir might just edge the Pakistan option. But we must return to the basic fact; going by all laws of justice, Kashmir should be a part of Pakistan. And, ofcourse, an independent Kashmir is not likely to be able to survive on its own, another thing analysts agree on.

hmm I think Kashmir should be independent.. the people have suffer enough under the regime of India and Pakistan...and like you say THE PEOPLE want to be free from occupation.
And this is the problem Pakistan wont let them because they think kashmir isnt able to be independent. But why is that.. because those 2 countries destroyed the whole area, its so sad to see how many poor people live there and that they are constantly been checked by the Indian/Pakistani army. Thats no life..and thats why they cant start building up the country.
And the way Pakistan thinks that Kashmir is better off with them..because "Kashmir isnt able to survive on its own" .. thats rediculus..its the way the people think.
Kashmir has so much to offer for Pakistan, and I guess thats why they dont want them to be independent....Its not a principle of able to.. but does india and Pakistan want Kashmir to be free......

:ws:

 

[m_2005]

The Kashmiris I've spoken to have mainly wanted to be independent as well, not India's or Pakistan's

 

[Munda Pakistani]

hmm I think Kashmir should be independent.. the people have suffer enough under the regime of India and Pakistan...and like you say THE PEOPLE want to be free from occupation.
And this is the problem Pakistan wont let them because they think kashmir isnt able to be independent. But why is that.. because those 2 countries destroyed the whole area, its so sad to see how many poor people live there and that they are constantly been checked by the Indian/Pakistani army. Thats no life..and thats why they cant start building up the country.
And the way Pakistan thinks that Kashmir is better off with them..because "Kashmir isnt able to survive on its own" .. thats rediculus..its the way the people think.
Kashmir has so much to offer for Pakistan, and I guess thats why they dont want them to be independent....Its not a principle of able to.. but does india and Pakistan want Kashmir to be free......

:ws:

Astaghfirullah.

Pakistan army? There are 6 million Indian sooldiers in India administered Kashmir; how many Pakistani soldiers are there in Azad Kashmir? Where are Kashmiris "checked" by the Pakistani army? Azad Kashmir is just like the rest of Pakistan. There are no extra forces there because it's Azad Kashmir. There are forces along th e LoC, but not more than anywhere else in Pakistan in Kashmir itself. No offence, but please do check the facts before drawing conclusions.

It is not Pakistan and India that say Kashmir won't survive as an independent country; it's international analysts. Every country has its own geographic and economic realities. There is a general consensus that Kashmir will be unable to survive independently among analysts because of those facets of the Kashmir region, not because of some misplaced superiority complex.

Have you ever met any Azad Kashmirirs? If you do, ask how many of them want to separate from Pakistan. If you meet any Indian-occupied Kashmirirs, do the same with them. You'll be surprised with the results.

And again, check the facts. If you find a kink in Pakistan's case, then point it out.

 

[Hajar]

Astaghfirullah.

Pakistan army? There are 6 million Indian sooldiers in India administered Kashmir; how many Pakistani soldiers are there in Azad Kashmir? Where are Kashmiris "checked" by the Pakistani army? Azad Kashmir is just like the rest of Pakistan. There are no extra forces there because it's Azad Kashmir. There are forces along th e LoC, but not more than anywhere else in Pakistan in Kashmir itself. No offence, but please do check the facts before drawing conclusions.

It is not Pakistan and India that say Kashmir won't survive as an independent country; it's international analysts. Every country has its own geographic and economic realities. There is a general consensus that Kashmir will be unable to survive independently among analysts because of those facets of the Kashmir region, not because of some misplaced superiority complex.

Have you ever met any Azad Kashmirirs? If you do, ask how many of them want to separate from Pakistan. If you meet any Indian-occupied Kashmirirs, do the same with them. You'll be surprised with the results.

And again, check the facts. If you find a kink in Pakistan's case, then point it out.

Im sorry if i offend you but I just want to straight my facts.. so its not the Pakistani army who causes so much terror in the Kashmiri lives.
The most harm is done by the Indian army...
BUt still i dont understand.. why do the people of Kashmir suffer so much.. why dont other people care...
What the Pakistani goverment is doing now wont stop the killing there.
They should give them freedom that is the only way to end this horrible situation.
India and Pakistan could end this, but they choose not to.
I guess both have blood on their hands.