Wife beaten up for failed marriage bid

I see. I assumed Terengganu would have the easiest polygamy law, considering it's generally depicted as the most orthodox state in Malaysia.

Terengganu is the state with the highest % of Muslims...but when it comes to religiousness.... personally I believe Kelantan Muslims are the most religious people in Malaysia... the proof is that... they've elected the Islamists to rule the state since 1990 until now.

FYI, Shafi'i madhhab is the official madhhab in all states but Perlis. Perlis dont follow particular madhhab and majority of the Muslims in Perlis are Salafis.
 
amazing..
which one said it was ok to beat your wife? Hanafi? Shafi? Maliki or Hanbali?
I'd like the Quote by the original scholar!


The quote from the original scholar does not = representation of the whole school - its not how the madhabs work (Imam Shafi for example, deemed shaving of the beard unlawful in his Umm, but the official position of the madhab is that it is offensive rather than unlawful).. And actually, if anyone does have it directly from them, please do share.

Anyway, you can read some opinions from the scholars of the schools - you will see they all discourage it, but they do not forbid the hit.

Anyway, their is no need for this to be a hostile debate. I am asking (as I do not have a lot of information regarding Malik/Hanbal schools), does anyone have opinions rooted from the salaf? Surely its understandable why I cannot accept Br Estes opinion as he did not mention any prominent scholars in his article (or fatwa?)

You can never be too careful, nowadays we have progressionist itjihaad everywhere - heck even non-muslims start to debate against qualified scholars - because they feel they have the true interpretation from having watched somthing like Channel 4's Qur'an :blind: (which contained many orientalist and progressionist interpretations - and then people put these on the same level as those of the scholars of the past - infact just the other day - I was debating against a non-muslim on the hijaab, she was adamant that it is not in the Qur'an and that it is only (astagfirullah) closet homosexual scholars who say so! The worlds gone mad >.<)

I guess, my problem was your comment of
I am surprised how many of you out there are ignorant of this!
- it wasn't a fair comment, as you did not establish a viewpoint from the salaf, but merely that of Br Estes, which if wrong - will unjustly confuse brothers and sisters. (Not saying it is your intention to but you know..)

I will like to just remind, none of the schools would promoted - and also - I am a stern that I would never hit my wife belive you me and my opinion on the issue is not to do with WHAT I BELIEVE IS GOOD MEANS. I am just trying to avoid the trap of accepting somthing, because it seems appealing due to my own morals, rather than what Allah has allowed and dissallowed. You know, somtimes you got to accept things and reject things for the sake of Allah - as you would have to love and hate things for him - even if you yourself are not "comfortable" with the ruling.

So to conclude, if someone does have this as a basis from the salaf, I am very happy to give it seal of approval :thumbs_up (though technically I can't :exhausted )
And Allah knows best
 
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:sl:



or perhaps you should treat your wife well to begin with, and she wont 'rebel' :rollseyes

Well Said, Treat others how you wish to be treated, therefore, you treat your Wife well, she will treat you well! Comprende!!

:sl:Yes very sad................. First of all may i point out to you that what has angered me most about this is the age of the poor woman!! Like i said she REPRESENTS a mother figure for us .......... and we should respect that. If this was happening to one of our own mothers (Allah have Mercy) then how would we feel........... instead this has gone from one extreme to the other and pigskins are being discussed.

I do not wish to offend any of the posters above but i think Skye is the only one who has taken this matter seriously and looked into it with thought and understanding........ This poor woman has not done anything wrong but obeyed her husband.........and has been treated by him in this manner where has she broken the law what crime has she committed??:enough!::w:


I do agree with you, I once worked at a crown court and i used to sit in on public galleries on my breaks,

one I sat in was a man had beaten his fiancee so hard she had to reconstructive surgery on her face. and the judge said,

A woman is a motherly figure, she will hug you when you need it and calm you when necessary, just like your mother would when you were young. Would you ever raise your hand to your mother??

he hung his head in shame and cried. he got 2 years in prison, and 1 for good behaivour, where was the justice in that. but the point i am trying to raise is you wouldnt hit your mother, and you would go mad if anyone hit your mother so where in all of that does the right come in for your to hit your lady? I think it shows weakness!
 
:sl: Thankyou for that buddy....... The poor woman is old enough to be either one of our mothers.......... i wept when i heard this and wept even more for her when i learnt of her age............ Allah have Mercy on HIs Mankind, and fill our hearts with love, peace and harmony............... All this makes me want to curl up into a ball and hide away.........:cry::w:
Well Said, Treat others how you wish to be treated, therefore, you treat your Wife well, she will treat you well! Comprende!!



I do agree with you, I once worked at a crown court and i used to sit in on public galleries on my breaks,

one I sat in was a man had beaten his fiancee so hard she had to reconstructive surgery on her face. and the judge said,

A woman is a motherly figure, she will hug you when you need it and calm you when necessary, just like your mother would when you were young. Would you ever raise your hand to your mother??

he hung his head in shame and cried. he got 2 years in prison, and 1 for good behaivour, where was the justice in that. but the point i am trying to raise is you wouldnt hit your mother, and you would go mad if anyone hit your mother so where in all of that does the right come in for your to hit your lady? I think it shows weakness!
 
:salamext:

The star newspaper is one most unreliable news paper out there. It's full of gossip and rumours.
 
talking about the problem - Thats what people do nawadays, its so old fashioned hitting your wife. there are strict laws against it.

If you read sixtens post properly you would have realised that hitting is only permitted when TALKING FAILS.

And we are talking about the kind of hit a women would need to seek self defense from either. It is more like a tap.

Well Said, Treat others how you wish to be treated, therefore, you treat your Wife well, she will treat you well! Comprende!

No. Not at all. By that logic, the women in this article must have done something really bad for her husband to get angry with her!

but the point i am trying to raise is you wouldnt hit your mother, and you would go mad if anyone hit your mother so where in all of that does the right come in for your to hit your lady? I think it shows weakness!

The point is that is is disiplinary not just because they had a fight, and that it is as a LAST resort (i.e. teh situation is coming close to divorce) and in a way that does not cause any harm and should be light such that it does not cause pain.

Therefore examples of how a women needed surgery are irrelevant because Islam does not permit that.
 
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i personaly like to meet this man. i would introduce myself and my cricket bat 2 his face
 
The quote from the original scholar does not = representation of the whole school -

You'll forgive me for not reading all that, I have a long and trying day..
what schools of thoughts are you following then? on what grounds when they have so far strayed?
The original scholars followed proper sunna!.. and prophet Mohammed SAW stated 'never beat God's handmaidens'.
a school of thought can only be formed from original sunna, as you have so proudly stated not a couple of posts ago 'ijtihad' isn't allowed.. well what do you think a fatwa is?
If it wasn't done or endorsed by the prophet or the original scholars, then Br. Estes or br. a7med or brother McNeil's opinion is a mere ijtihad!


The Prophet has the authority to permit and prohibit (Al-A`raf 7:157). And, finally, whatever the Prophet gives, must be taken; whatever he forbids, must be eschewed (Al-Hashr 59:7).


Thus any secondary opinion evolving from the original is well a subaltern! a fatwa, and 'ijtihad'...

you feel it ok as a 'last resort' by all means.. you want to promote it here, again?, by all means.. but the prophet and the original scholars didn't condone that even as a last option!

all the best

P.S .. who would have thunk it and this by noway meant as a derision.. but you aren't even willing to admit you are a Muslim, and from what I have read, have some eschewed non orthodox opinions about evolution, but such strong convictions when it comes to hitting women..

amazing!

:w:
 
Addendum to above

Sunan Abu Dawud

Book 033, Hadith Number 4478.
------------------------------
Chapter : Not known.

Narated By Abu Hurairah : The Prophet (pbuh) said: When one of you inflicts a beating, he should avoid striking the face.


Book 005, Hadith Number 2138.
------------------------------
Chapter : Not known.

Narated By Mu'awiyah ibn Haydah : I said: Apostle of Allah, how should we approach our wives and how should we leave them? He replied: Approach your tilth when or how you will, give her (your wife) food when you take food, clothe when you clothe yourself, do not revile her face, and do not beat her.
 
by the way, I found this on Load Islam..
of all places =)

Misconceptions

Islam and the Independent Thinker

By : Al-Jumuah



Islam encourages ijtihad, which is translated as "independent opinion or judgment." Its purpose is to update, amend, and review matters of religion. It is especially needed whenever new situations are encountered, particularly when they have not been addressed in a timely manner.

Ijtihad not only insures that Islam keeps abreast with current trends, but it also protects society from stagnation and prevents cultural imitation from shaping and defining society. The Prophet [peace and blessings of Allah be upon him] said, "Allah sends to this Ummah every hundred years, someone who will amend the matters of its religion." (Abu Dawud)

This hadeeth gives a guarantee of renewal and sets a specific period of time during which the trust and responsibility for this religion must be upheld. The trust includes preserving religious texts (i.e., Qur'an and Sunnah), continuing to propagate Islam, and ensuring that Islam has a positive influence on people's lives. It also includes ensuring ijtihad continues. Ijtihad is needed to solve the problems of each time or age, because a judgment that is correct for a particular age will not necessarily by correct for all ages.

Ijtihad, and the updating of religion, does not mean the abrogation of religious texts - it means new understandings in line with existing religious texts. It guides Muslims to solve their problems, especially problems specific to their time and location, and provides solutions in accordance with revelation.

This understanding of ijtihad explains how it is able to immortalize the Islamic message and incorporate Islam into every aspect of life. It provides the means of forming a common understanding of Islam, and helps people's attention to remain focused on an Islamic life, so that they can achieve personal growth and social development.

It is said in a hadeeth, "If a Hakim makes a ruling using his own judgment (ijtihad) and is correct, then he will receive two rewards; and if he makes a ruling and uses his own judgment, and makes a mistake, then he will receive one reward." The Hakim here means anyone who is authorized to give rulings, to look into a matter, or to make an independent judgment (ijtihad) in a case.

No matter what the condition or concerns of a Muslim population, it is a community obligation (fard kifayah) for someone to make the effort to learn the rulings pertaining to different problems and emergency situations. If no one devotes himself to the study of Islamic Law, so that ijtihad can be used to determine ruling concerning recent problems, then all Muslims are in the wrong.

Perhaps it is this condition that prompted a past Imam to say that it is not permissible for any period of time to be devoid of ijtihad in the Qur'an and Sunnah of Allah's Prophet (PBUH.) Another understanding is that one role of a new age, time, or generation, is to expose people to new problems, customs, and situations.

There must always be scholars to perform ijtihad and deduce rulings appropriate to new customs and situations. People's lives are filled with complicated questions, and in some situations it is impossible for them to find satisfactory answers. However, this does not mean that we should surrender to this fact as if it were unsurpassable. The human intellect can take one of two courses when faced with this problem: The first is to assume that the solution does in fact lie within the existing body of law and that it must therefore be possible to rule or govern according to it.

The second is to assume that existing laws do not cover the problem and to seek to deduce laws to deal with it. Between these two assumptions are numerous other possibilities, each lying somewhere between the two extremes. Each assumption has practical implications, but how they manifest themselves will depend on circumstances and human nature, and how closely the problem falls within the scope of the two assumptions.

In summary: The need to open the door of ijtihad has become a pressing one and, therefore, is an obligatory religious duty. This is because we live in a time of continuous, yet permanent changes: A time of confusion in which the specific, the general, the unrestrained, and the limited have become mixed. We have become rich in understanding acts of worship and religious rites, but this has been accompanied by poverty in understanding how to treat people. We lack modern ways of thinking to accompany modern times, and we are out of harmony with the new ways of doing things that surround us.

This reveals the need for an endeavor that will unite the Ummah (Muslim Nation). Together, we must formulate the essential characteristics of a method for dealing with current problems and crises, using as our guidelines the methodology that Allah ordained for His creation.

In encouraging this, we support the opinion of the majority of the scholars who proposed the institution of collective ijtihad for the Ummah. They laid the foundations for a system of consultancy in ijtihad. This was the gathering of scholars that came together for collective ijtihad in the early days of Islam. The scholars were the Companions of the Prophet and the system was called 'ijmaa' or consensus.

There is a need to have a centralized ijmaa' on some basic issues for the entire Muslim Ummah. These issues include: cases that are fundamentally different from any previously known cases for which there were clear rulings; cases whose rulings were given in a different time or place; recent developments especially in areas of rapid change such as science, technology, medicine, war, and agriculture; determining the strongest of sometimes conflicting sayings of past scholars; and determining which opinions are the most suitable for the state of the Ummah in the present time.

Modern civilization suffers from many complicated problems, many of which have arisen due to rapid progress, unbridled development, and unbalanced growth.

The solutions offered by Islam open before all humanity opportunities to overcome present day crises, and heal the rift between spiritual and material values, for the benefit of humankind, the environment, and all other life on earth.

http://www.load-islam.com/artical_det.php?artical_id=235&section=wel_islam&subsection=Misconceptions
 
You'll forgive me for not reading all that, I have a long and trying day..
what schools of thoughts are you following then? on what grounds when they have so far strayed?

I take from the Hanafi school, I have read several articles by some scholars I respect, such as Farz Rabbani. They all strongly explained that it is not liked, showed hadiths and so fourth - but again they did not state that it is not mentioned in the Qur'an. The stray so to say, is the translation that it means "appoint people", you know to deal with issue.

The original scholars followed proper sunna!.. and prophet Mohammed SAW stated 'never beat God's handmaidens'.
a school of thought can only be formed from original sunna, as you have so proudly stated not a couple of posts ago 'ijtihad' isn't allowed.. well what do you think a fatwa is?
If it wasn't done or endorsed by the prophet or the original scholars, then Br. Estes or br. a7med or brother McNeil's opinion is a mere ijtihad!



The Prophet has the authority to permit and prohibit (Al-A`raf 7:157). And, finally, whatever the Prophet gives, must be taken; whatever he forbids, must be eschewed (Al-Hashr 59:7).


Thus any secondary opinion evolving from the original is well a subaltern! a fatwa, and 'ijtihad'...

Hmm, again it is posting hadiths, infact hadiths which the scholars who permitted the hitting - to use to show how much it is disliked, disapproved - and that you should not read the Qur'an to be saying as that of "AND HIT THEM", look at Mz's video if you can, by Abdul Raheem Green. What I mean is, it is rather the Qur'an translation that seems alien, to that of how many respectable scholars have stated it as. Hence, I asked, did you have any rooting from the salaf on such interpretation? Or is it just one of the modern ones. I am not a scholar and neither are you

I am not asking if the arabic can be translated to mean that, I am aware that you can translate things in many ways, but I believe that the verses arn't ambigious in preach - that is Allah did not give a Qur'an which is confusing to people, in that - even though you can technically derive several meanings from 1 verse - you can't have contradicting meanings which are all equally weighted as "authentic".

Either way, your comment of "ignorance" was uncalled for, simply due to many respectable scholars not agreeing to that viewpoint of Br Estes, and not just some LI members who arn't scholars. Your comment would have been justified if, that opinion of Br Estes was that of the mainstream, so to speak of.



you feel it ok as a 'last resort' by all means.. you want to promote it here, again?, by all means.. but the prophet and the original scholars didn't condone that even as a last option!

Its not about me, feeling anything. Like I said, I would not ever hit anyone, or even close to hit a wife. My opinion is based nothing on how "I" feel things or how "I" interpret things. I put my trust in scholars which follow the salaf. Hence my query, does Br Este's view go back to early generations? I mean, if his opinon is highly valid, you can say, it is technically "BETTER" for me, as I am unaffected as I would not hit anyway, and that it makes dawah easier to the non-muslims.

P.S .. who would have thunk it and this by noway meant as a derision.. but you aren't even willing to admit you are a Muslim, and from what I have read, have some eschewed non orthodox opinions about evolution, but such strong convictions when it comes to hitting women..

amazing!

Kind of borderline ad-hominem skye >.<, you have a habit of being like this :exhausted

Firstly, I didn't even state my gender, nor my location - wasn't just way of life. It did give a nice "unbiased" look when you discuss though, I have experience in other forums where my posts have been judged merely because I am a muslim, or I am from a certain country, or my gender. However, due to mass confusions/questions (over both deen and gender :S??) I decided to fill them up.

Anyway, most of the sites which I go to don't really talk about science - (atleast where I got views of the woman hitting, I couldn't find articles from them on evolution). I guess, science is like, not a mesh with religion - that is they are 2 different things. I have had differing views over time but this is my finalised view on evolution. Macroevolution if animals did happen, infact none of the fossil record is false - but Adam (as) did not have a forefather - and that view I believe does not contradict Islam. I think brother Ansar's Islamic view on evolution has a good way of putting things, that Islam neither condemns nor condones the evolution theory - and those things may have existed and came about via macroevolution.

My whole quarrel on those threads was merely, that people posting very bad material against evolution. Personally whether one believes any part of evolution or not is irrelevant - but posting bad science is pretty bad dawah, and that is really why I ever even indulge in those threads.


:w:
 
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:sl:

This man should be chopped with a parang, and he should be beaten,
like he beat his wife, that is wrong, why is it his wifes fault? This man is
stupid!!

:w:
 

I have had an idea who you were from the the second week you signed on, in fact, I have my reasons to suspect you to be a former member who requested or was banned.

It doesn't matter to me which school of thought you follow, or what you deem ad hom or is a habit of mine etc.
There was a time when people needed a fatwa on whether or not they should use a faucet (imagine staying back in prehistoric times on the account it would have been deemed unislamic?.. a thinking Muslim should use his devices what God naturally gave him to reason with proper sunna, and the proper teaching of the original school from which all else has branched in lieu of simply accepting without a rational basis of what was even originally mentioned in hadith!



pls in the future just contract your replies to the two sentences I need to take home.. I can't possibly sit here and sort through an essay that is fully based on a belief of yours and held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof!

all the best

:w:

P.S not that I want to re-touch back on your topic of evo.. it actually had nothing to do with macro or microevolution.. but I don't want to open a bag of worms.. I don't find it entertaining and it is too time consuming!

:w:
 
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Bros & Sisters.
Divorce is also allowed in Islam, but most disliked by Allah SWT. Allowance of aggression / hitting is not socially acceotable, nor will benefit health of a marriage.
While 4 wives are allowed, you also have to be able to treat them equally. Try meeting that condition :)
Allah SWT knows best
Jazak Allah
 

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