Muslim cocktail waitress sues over revealing uniform

[Izyan]

Well if this report is true (as there is so much 'this Muslim did this that and the other' trend in the media going on) then one has to establish what this ladies contract says about dress code. As the saying goes 'there is always two sides to every story' and it would be important to check out all the facts on both sides. One start would be to analyse the dress code over the history of the establishment. Did it change much?. Was it predominately of one type e.g. smart or revealing?. Of course sleazy dressing will be for sleazy joints and vice versa.

I've seen some bars etc. in the UK and usually the men/women are quite smartly dressed in things like long-sleeved shirts, waistcoats, trousers etc - i.e. what would generally constitue a smart unifrom. That dress they asked her to put on seems more like something a person would go out to party/flirt in - it doesn't conjure up the immediate picture of 'uniform'.

Anyway like I said the case needs looking into deeply especially before making generalisations like "she has no case to sue or not".

Dress codes can be changed at will. One day you can be made to wear a red shirt and brown pants and the next day they can consider blue a better color and make you change.

 

[Muezzin]

Its same situation as if a jew wanted a job in a butcher shop and then accused the owner that he had to touch the pork meat.

Exactly.

Could the woman in question really not have found a job that was not in a cocktail bar?

 

[Izyan]

Exactly.

Could the woman in question really not have found a job that was not in a cocktail bar?

Those jobs are a dime a dozen. People get burned out in the food service industry pretty quickly. I did it for many years while paying for school. If she didn't like it she could have quit and found a new job.

 

[S1aveofA11ah]

Exactly.

Could the woman in question really not have found a job that was not in a cocktail bar?

Well why don't you give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she was desperate for money (had to take a job to feed/house herself) - doing this job but hoping to move to a more halal one in future. Things don't all come overnight.

 

[S1aveofA11ah]

Dress codes can be changed at will. One day you can be made to wear a red shirt and brown pants and the next day they can consider blue a better color and make you change.

That is what this issue is all about. Say a man works in IT (in an office for example) and he wears a suit/tie as company dress code for say the first 3 months. Then one day his department head calls him and says from tomorrow he has to wear just his underpants and giant wellington boots at his desk then some people might object from religious grounds (undies exposing awrah)or dispute things from the angle of practicality (giant wellies are hard to walk around in).

Clearly from the Islamic angle to wear the dress described is haram - as it is known that a Muslim women should dress modestly (the meaning of 'hijab' - not just the cloth worn on the head), I think the majority of Muslims agree to that.

It strange - recently UPS have had some coverage where they did the same i.e. dres code change to some of their Muslim female workers asking them to wear shorter skirts due to health and safety (they claimed) and the ladies are I think taking legal action (as they never had a problem wearing what they did before).

 

[wth1257]

Its same situation as if a jew wanted a job in a butcher shop and then accused the owner that he had to touch the pork meat.

Prostitution is not a facet of being a waitress. She was fufilling her duties as a waitress. Her boss was trying to coerce her into turning herself into a sex object and refused to protect her from total sexual objectification and harassment. That is an affront to her dignity as a human being and a woman. A Jewish (or Muslim) individual looking for work as a butcher who objects to handling pork is failing to fufill a vital aspect of their profession (in the Western context). If she had decided to be a stripper and objected to wearing revealing clothing that would be an apt comparison.

 

[Hamayun]

Prostitution is not a facet of being a waitress. She was fufilling her duties as a waitress. Her boss was trying to coerce her into turning herself into a sex object and refused to protect her from total sexual objectification and harassment. That is an affront to her dignity as a human being and a woman. A Jewish (or Muslim) individual looking for work as a butcher who objects to handling pork is failing to fufill a vital aspect of their profession (in the Western context). If she had decided to be a stripper and objected to wearing revealing clothing that would be an apt comparison.

100% agreed.

Great post :thumbs_up

 

[Izyan]

That is what this issue is all about. Say a man works in IT (in an office for example) and he wears a suit/tie as company dress code for say the first 3 months. Then one day his department head calls him and says from tomorrow he has to wear just his underpants and giant wellington boots at his desk then some people might object from religious grounds (undies exposing awrah)or dispute things from the angle of practicality (giant wellies are hard to walk around in).

Clearly from the Islamic angle to wear the dress described is haram - as it is known that a Muslim women should dress modestly (the meaning of 'hijab' - not just the cloth worn on the head), I think the majority of Muslims agree to that.

It strange - recently UPS have had some coverage where they did the same i.e. dres code change to some of their Muslim female workers asking them to wear shorter skirts due to health and safety (they claimed) and the ladies are I think taking legal action (as they never had a problem wearing what they did before).

My employer would be well within his right to make me the undies and boots as in I would be well within my right to quit. As for the long skirts they are a tripping hazard.

 

[S1aveofA11ah]

Prostitution is not a facet of being a waitress. She was fufilling her duties as a waitress. Her boss was trying to coerce her into turning herself into a sex object and refused to protect her from total sexual objectification and harassment. That is an affront to her dignity as a human being and a woman. A Jewish (or Muslim) individual looking for work as a butcher who objects to handling pork is failing to fufill a vital aspect of their profession (in the Western context). If she had decided to be a stripper and objected to wearing revealing clothing that would be an apt comparison.

Good points wth1257. Whats most important here is the relationship of the concept of Halal (permissible) and Haram (forbidden) in Islam with regards to this particular work scenario.

Some non-Muslim women out there might have even favoured the raunchiness of wearing such a dress in such a job over normal, less revealing unifrom. They might have preferred this and the benefits they feel it would bring e.g. more stares/comments from customers, more dates from customers etc.

However, for the Muslim woman (in Arabic its: 'Muslimah') things would be in the total opposite. This wearing of the dress for the Muslimah is Haram unless its for someone she is in a sexual relationship with i.e. for her husband only.

The reason is because the Muslimah's dress code has certain guidelines - detailed ones in fact. Again I mention the word 'Hijab' (meaning modesty) as many think it refers just to a 'headscarf' worn by Muslim ladies. If that was the case then wearing just a thong down the highstreet with a headscarf would be considered Islamic which it isn't.

At the same time it is Haram for her to serve alcohol but this doesn't detract from the Haram of the dress so it is neither here nor there.

Overall it sounds like another case of unjust, persecution of Muslims on a micro-level. She has little chance of getting far with matters. She can sue and maybe win a little and be out of a job, or sue and win and keep her job but be bullied (with little record of proof) until she has to leave etc.

I repeat my oft-mentioned statement to all people of all religions on this forum (ALL people including those who believe God doesn't exist) - there will NEVER be peace in this world until the people strive first for justice as a prerequisite for peace. Its high time folks to stop harming your neighbours on Earth and start helping - me first and foremost.

 

[S1aveofA11ah]

My employer would be well within his right to make me the undies and boots as in I would be well within my right to quit. As for the long skirts they are a tripping hazard.

Does that make it right though?. If he told you to come in naked every day and then you thought - "No I can't do this" then you would be jobless. Then if you went to the next employer after suffering from being poorer and he said "You can't wear anything except a necktie" and you thought "Gotta go - too cold/embarrasing etc". then you would be in an endless downward spiral of 'have a job/lost it' leading to a financial meltdown. As for long skirts being attributed to the UPS case (not saying you did) - then that is an investigation issue.

 

[Muezzin]

Well why don't you give her the benefit of the doubt and assume she was desperate for money (had to take a job to feed/house herself) - doing this job but hoping to move to a more halal one in future. Things don't all come overnight.

True. However, were I in her position, I would not really find myself able to complain when something like this happened. I would try to find another job.

That said, I hope that she does succeed in any litigation.

 

[Izyan]

Does that make it right though?. If he told you to come in naked every day and then you thought - "No I can't do this" then you would be jobless. Then if you went to the next employer after suffering from being poorer and he said "You can't wear anything except a necktie" and you thought "Gotta go - too cold/embarrasing etc". then you would be in an endless downward spiral of 'have a job/lost it' leading to a financial meltdown. As for long skirts being attributed to the UPS case (not saying you did) - then that is an investigation issue.

Then I would chose another profession. I would go into porn and be shocked to see a bunch of naked people. Whatever happened to Allah supplying for your needs? You don't have to take the job. If you need a job where you can dress modestly Allah will supply one.

 

[S1aveofA11ah]

Then I would chose another profession. I would go into porn and be shocked to see a bunch of naked people. Whatever happened to Allah supplying for your needs? You don't have to take the job. If you need a job where you can dress modestly Allah will supply one.

Hmm...you would go 'into porn'?...I think that shows the viewers what kind of mindset you have Izyan, May Allah guide you to Islam (ameen). I don't think any decent Muslim would wish to take this 'into porn' option as it is against the teachings of Islam.

 

[wth1257]

Then I would chose another profession. I would go into porn and be shocked to see a bunch of naked people. Whatever happened to Allah supplying for your needs? You don't have to take the job. If you need a job where you can dress modestly Allah will supply one.

The Qur'an gives Muslims a dispensation with regards to Haram activities with respect to dietary laws in extream situations, and the head scholar at Al Anzar issued a Fatwa excusing Muslim women in countries like France from wearing the Hijab so they can pursue their education.

I suppose I just don’t see how your reasoning is coherent with Islamic precedent

 

[Izyan]

Hmm...you would go 'into porn'?...I think that shows the viewers what kind of mindset you have Izyan, May Allah guide you to Islam (ameen). I don't think any decent Muslim would wish to take this 'into porn' option as it is against the teachings of Islam.

Bad keyboard and I didn't check what I typed before I hit enter. What I meant to say was IF I were to go into porn I shouldn't be suprised to see naked people. I was a muslim and now I'm a christian. I think I'll stay one thank you for the offer though.

 

[Izyan]

The Qur'an gives Muslims a dispensation with regards to Haram activities with respect to dietary laws in extream situations, and the head scholar at Al Anzar issued a Fatwa excusing Muslim women in countries like France from wearing the Hijab so they can pursue their education.

I suppose I just don’t see how your reasoning is coherent with Islamic precedent

Once again bad keyboard and things didn't come out clearly. Sorry.

 

[Grace Seeker]

The Qur'an gives Muslims a dispensation with regards to Haram activities with respect to dietary laws in extream situations, and the head scholar at Al Anzar issued a Fatwa excusing Muslim women in countries like France from wearing the Hijab so they can pursue their education.

I suppose I just don’t see how your reasoning is coherent with Islamic precedent

Now, I learned something new here. Muslims can get dispensations to live contrary to the teachings of the Qur'an and Hadith???? I just thought it was different interpretations that caused some to wear the hijab and others to say it was unnecessary. But here it sounds like you are saying the interpretation is correct that it is required, but we are going to excuse you from having to follow it.

Do I understand correctly?

 

[Woodrow]

Now, I learned something new here. Muslims can get dispensations to live contrary to the teachings of the Qur'an and Hadith???? I just thought it was different interpretations that caused some to wear the hijab and others to say it was unnecessary. But here it sounds like you are saying the interpretation is correct that it is required, but we are going to excuse you from having to follow it.

Do I understand correctly?

It does sound like:

Now, I learned something new here. Muslims can get dispensations to live contrary to the teachings of the Qur'an and Hadith????

But it is not that simple. You need to remember that we follow no earthly religious leaders. However, scholars and Imams will sometimes issue fatwahs in which they are requesting something or explaining something. But, the end result is we as individuals need to do the research and see if we are sinning. We can not use the excuse that Sheik Somebody, said it was ok to do.

There is a general consensus among scholars that Allaah(swt) is all merciful and all just. with that being so it seems logical that Allaah(swt) would never give us trials without the ability to overcome them.

So it is with life and restrictions, there are times when we can not follow what we are required to follow. Not because of choice but because of necessity. For example we are forbidden to eat pork. If some how we got stranded in Antarctica and for the next 2 years the only food available was frozen bacon sandwiches, it is doubtful we would be punished because we ate only a sufficient amount of the bacon to sustain life until we are rescued.

So it is with employment. Although some jobs are haram and it is sinful to work in them, if it is necessary to preserve the lives of our family to work at such a job long enough to find halal work, most scholars would agree that it is doubtful we would be punished for the sin, if we can not avoid it. That does not mean it is not a sin, it just means we can trust in Allaah(swt) to only punish us for that which is the result of our free will and not the result of circumstances.

On a personal note, I think the sin would be getting ourselves in such a situation to begin with. That I feel would result in just punishment as a sin. But, fortunately it is not up to me to judge what is or is not a willful sin in others. I think the best choice is to avoid sin at any personal cost and do not use the cop-out that Allaah(swt) will ignore it, because we had no choice. I can not see any situation that would force me into a position of being able to avoid committing a sin, unless I did something dumb to get me there.

 

[Tony]

Bad keyboard and I didn't check what I typed before I hit enter. What I meant to say was IF I were to go into porn I shouldn't be suprised to see naked people. I was a muslim and now I'm a christian. I think I'll stay one thank you for the offer though.

I was a muslim and now I'm a christian.

May Allah guide you back to Islam, brother you are truly lost have you no sense of the punishment awaiting you.My heart really and truly cries for you

 

[wth1257]

Now, I learned something new here. Muslims can get dispensations to live contrary to the teachings of the Qur'an and Hadith???? I just thought it was different interpretations that caused some to wear the hijab and others to say it was unnecessary. But here it sounds like you are saying the interpretation is correct that it is required, but we are going to excuse you from having to follow it.

Do I understand correctly?

In extraordionary cases and to a limited extent.

There are arguments over the Hijab but in the instance I mentioned it was in reaction to laws passed by secular governments baring women from employment and education if they were the Hijab. It's not like a "get out of gail free card" I mean the women couldn't go around in high heels and a mini skirt, she would still have to be modest. And I assume she would have to wear the Hijab when not in the buildings where it was prohibited.

At least this is how I understand it.