Somali millitants destroy Churches, graves.

[themuffinman]

Huh?

It's the living who committed shirk, not the dead. Destroying a grave or a tomb disrespects the dead. Leave them be. Deal with the mushriks, don't touch the graves.

graves shouldnt be marked as shrines, and if they were pios and practicing muslims they would have condemed their graves being worshipped. you have to get rid of the markings and shrines on the graves to prevent people from falling into shirk again...

 

[Wilma_Hum]

graves shouldnt be marked as shrines, and if they were pios and practicing muslims they would have condemed their graves being worshipped. you have to get rid of the markings and shrines on the graves to prevent people from falling into shirk again...

Maybe I'm missing something, but this seams to justify forcing one beliefs on another.

I understand this to say you not only have the right, but you have the obligation to remove something I place on a grave.

Am I wrong?

 

[themuffinman]

Maybe I'm missing something, but this seams to justify forcing one beliefs on another.

I understand this to say you not only have the right, but you have the obligation to remove something I place on a grave.

Am I wrong?

you have to look at why those graves were made into shrines. we dont kno why it was done in somalia but usually its because the people who lay there were pious and practicing muslims and the people around them reveared them so after they died they setup shrines to honor them, which is against islam. there not imposing their beleifs on other people by destroying the graves they are preventing MUSLIMs from going astray

 

[Fishman]

there not imposing their beleifs on other people by destroying the graves they are preventing MUSLIMs from going astray

Uh, one man's Haq is another man's Kufr. Not everybody wants to follow your sect. Infact, since you have only got a majority in Saudi Arabia, Yemen and America, almost nobody does.

Two questions:
1. Would you demolish Shia Mosques?

2. What do you think about Shias who want to persecute Salafi Sunnis in the same way as you want to do to 'Sufi' Sunnis? They use the same excuses!

 

[Wilma_Hum]

you have to look at why those graves were made into shrines. we dont kno why it was done in somalia but usually its because the people who lay there were pious and practicing muslims and the people around them reveared them so after they died they setup shrines to honor them, which is against islam. there not imposing their beleifs on other people by destroying the graves they are preventing MUSLIMs from going astray

But still, you seam to say that what you believe gives you the right to destroy what some one has done to honour someone.

I don't know anything about Somali, but if you removed my flowers form my grandfathers grave, things would turn unplesent, to say the least.

And the fact that my grandfather was not a Muslim has nothing to do with it.

 

[Follower]

Yusof-Noor- Did you read some of the comments after that blog post? Disgusting.

The ballot has failed us but the bullet has not. UUgghh!! Does this mean to watch out if you are a not only Christian but a Sufi, Quran only Muslim, too?

 

[themuffinman]

i dont know where these "sects" come in but i try and follow only the guidelines of the quran and sunnah which is islam so if these people are following islam they should adhere to the quran: (O Prophet) say (to the Polytheists): "Call upon other (gods) whom ye fancy besides Allah; they have no power, - not even the weight of an atom - in the heavens or on earth; no (sort of) share have they therein, nor is any of them a helper of Allah." (Quran: Saba, 3)

O Prophet) say (to the Polytheists): "Call on those - besides Him -whom ye fancy: they have neither the power to remove your troubles from you nor to change them." (Quran: Bani Israel, 6)

"Worship ye that which ye have (yourselves) carved?" (Quran: Saffat, 3).

Prophet Mohammad even at his death bed warned Muslims not to imitate Jews and Christians who earlier had venerated the graves of their prophets and saints (Sahih Muslim, Mishkat).

as for the demolition of shia mosques....well i dont beleive there muslim and to them their faith and to me mine.

 

[Fishman]

as for the demolition of shia mosques....well i dont beleive there muslim and to them their faith and to me mine.

You seem to like to call us polytheists and innovators, but you won't leave us to our own...

EDIT: this doesn't mean I'm a Shia, I'm just comparing how you treat them with how you treat others.

 

[YusufNoor]

You seem to like to call us polytheists and innovators, but you won't leave us to our own...

FishBro,

please tell me that you are not a Shia!

Yusof-Noor- Did you read some of the comments after that blog post? Disgusting.

actually, i did. i have NO IDEA what to make of the Somali situation. the Somalis [that i know] don't know what the hell is going on there, so how am i to know? i WAS totally surprised by what Br Anwar wrote. i then saw this thread, and then posted his comments.

the Somalis i know HERE were thrilled when the Courts took over, not so thrilled about giving up the ghat or their soccer, though. IF the Somalis THERE were thrilled, one ASSUMES they would have kept them in power....

but then again, who put the Ethiopians up to invading a foreign country? i mean who do they think they are? Russia? America?

it would be nice to know the real story!

 

[Fishman]

please tell me that you are not a Shia!

No. I'm saying that they leave the Shia alone, but not the 'Sufi' Sunnis.

 

[themuffinman]

the thing about sufi islam is that it originated with pure intention. the people liked to alot of dhikr and i dont see anything wrong with that, they had alot of love for allah but that isnt the case for "modern" sufi, they have even brought innovations into their own so called "sect"

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

see now where is there anyhthing unislamic in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPWI-p9Kl4g

That just looks like a bunch of guys having fun destroying things.

Peace

 

[muslimahCA]

Because they have been arming Ethiopians to fight Somalians Brother - common news can be researched if one wishes to spend the time.

Not everything has to be witnessed 'with my own eyes' for me to believe it thank you all the same. I believe a Sky satellite is in orbit around Earth beacause we have sky channels - I've never seen the satellite with my own eyes though.

The 70 excuses is a hadith relating to the Muslims specifically not the US army.

I definetly agree with everything you are saying, as a somali from day one of leaving somalia and hearing about these different governments coming in left and right and no hope of stablity in sight one thing we are sure of is the American backed Ethiopian troops.

http://www.zmag.org/zmag/viewArticle/19831

 

[muslimahCA]

No. I'm saying that they leave the Shia alone, but not the 'Sufi' Sunnis.

Wait, who said their is even shia's in somalia? There is a very low percentage of sufi's to begin with let alone shia's.

As for the graves and churches, i just want to comment on them by saying that I have always heard that people would come to them across the country and worship there. Someone let me know if any of the shabah may peace and blessing be on them would allow such a obvious bidah and wallahu alam maybe even shirk!

As for churches, i agree its totally wrong and it could be on their part of little education about the deen. I am not making excuses for them but after decades of darn near slavery with the Italians little care is in my heart.


Plus, remember that somali's and NON somali's from all over the world are residing in somalia now because of the Al Shabab so its not only the people born and raised in somalia are setting up this system.

I have faith and have given them my 70 excuses, if Somalia is all we have in gaining a real muslim country run by Islamic law, we as muslims are obligated to support our brothers and sister in establishing this.

May Allah make this successful for all of us guiding them to see the truth and protect them from evil and let it be a leader for the ummah to follow.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

It is a sad state of affairs that errant Muslims have raised graves, mounted shrines over them, and exalted the dead as was the practise of the pagans before the Call to Islam. Today, Muslims have built huge shrines over the graves of some of the Ahlel Bayt, Sahabah, the righteous people, and others. This has led to the inevitable result of mimicking pagans who worship the dead, either directly or indirectly. There is therefore a necessity to raze to the ground these pagan shrines and to level the graves, as was the Sunnah.

Shaykh Muhammad Salih al-Munajjid says:

“Islam forbids erecting structures over graves, and commands that any such structures should be knocked down. But it is permitted to put a marker on the grave so that the family and friends of the deceased will know where it is (and nothing more than this). However, this marker should not be a structure or anything else that is not allowed in sharee’ah.”

With regard to the prohibition on erecting structures over graves, it was narrated that Jabir said: “The Messenger of Allah forbade plastering over graves, sitting on them and erecting structures over them.” (Sahih Muslim, 970)

Al-Shawkani said:

“The phrase ‘erecting structures over them’ indicates that it is Haram to build anything over a grave.”

Al-Shafi’i said:

“I saw the imams in Makkah ordering that what had been built (over graves) was to be knocked down.”

Shaykh Muhammad Salih al-Munajjid says:

“With regard to the command to knock down structures that have been built over graves, that is proven in the Sunnah.”

It was narrated that Abu’l-Hayaaj al-Asadi said: Ali ibn Abi Talib said to me: “Shall I not send you on the same mission as the Messenger of Allah sent me? Do not leave any statue without erasing it, and do not leave any raised grave without leveling it.” (Sahih Muslim, 969).

Al-Shawkani said:

“The words ‘do not leave any raised grave without leveling it’ means that the Sunnah is that a grave should not be made very high, and there should be no differentiation between those who were virtuous and those who were not virtuous.”

Shaykh Muhammad Salih al-Munajjid says:

“Making a grave higher than the amount that is permitted is Haram…The making graves high that is mentioned in the Hadith especially includes the domes and shrines that are built over graves, and the taking of graves as places of worship. The Prophet cursed those who do that (refer to Nayl al-Awtaar, 4/130).”

All of these pagan shrines should be torn down and removed. Instead, all of the dead should have flat and level graves equal to everyone else. This is the faith of Islam. For the one who cannot accept this, he has deviated away from the path of the Hanif (i.e. the monotheists) and inclined himself towards the Mushriks.

http://www.ahlelbayt.com/articles/shirk/raze-shrines

 

[themuffinman]

But still, you seam to say that what you believe gives you the right to destroy what some one has done to honour someone.

I don't know anything about Somali, but if you removed my flowers form my grandfathers grave, things would turn unplesent, to say the least.

And the fact that my grandfather was not a Muslim has nothing to do with it.

but u mis the point...there not honoring them they using them to worship, hence it is a form of idolatry... flowers on a grave and worshipping a grave is HUGE difference

 

[Follower]

Who are you?! LOL!! to say the "idols" must be destroyed!!

Gees, I thought Muslims were worshipping a black stone. There may be some illiterate Muslims that still do!!

That is one fault I find with many Muslims. They seem so concerned with outward actions and appearances and not what is in people hearts.

They are also very concerned about punishing people that they think are at fault. Are you a better judge then GOD? Judge not!! Show some tolerance!!

John 8
3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

GOD's Blessings to all of you!! Praise GOD for sending Jesus as a gift of grace to each and everyone of us!!

 

[CROME]

Uh, one man's Haq is another man's Kufr. Not everybody wants to follow your sect. Infact, since you have only got a majority in Saudi Arabia, Yemen and America, almost nobody does.

Two questions:
1. Would you demolish Shia Mosques?

2. What do you think about Shias who want to persecute Salafi Sunnis in the same way as you want to do to 'Sufi' Sunnis? They use the same excuses!

Funny how muffinman has given some proof for what he mentioned, where as you have said what you think and expect us to just simply blindfollow what you said. True one man's Haq is another man's kufr, but we all know that there is only one "Haq" which is the Qur'an and Sunnah (which by the way you have not once quoted).

 

[themuffinman]

Who are you?! LOL!! to say the "idols" must be destroyed!!

Gees, I thought Muslims were worshipping a black stone. There may be some illiterate Muslims that still do!!

That is one fault I find with many Muslims. They seem so concerned with outward actions and appearances and not what is in people hearts.

They are also very concerned about punishing people that they think are at fault. Are you a better judge then GOD? Judge not!! Show some tolerance!!

John 8
3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

GOD's Blessings to all of you!! Praise GOD for sending Jesus as a gift of grace to each and everyone of us!!

LOL the same could be said WHO WAS THE PROPHET TO ESTROY THE IDOLS IN MECCA??? of course im not even fit to wipe the dust off prophet muhammed feet but if you call yourself muslims then we have no business having idols around, do muslims go around breaking idols of hindus? no because that is there religion and there so far off base were not threatened by them them that they will corrupt our faith but it is the muslims who incorporate parts of hinduism into islam and leading other muslims astray

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Who are you?! LOL!! to say the "idols" must be destroyed!!

Gees, I thought Muslims were worshipping a black stone. There may be some illiterate Muslims that still do!!

That is one fault I find with many Muslims. They seem so concerned with outward actions and appearances and not what is in people hearts.

They are also very concerned about punishing people that they think are at fault. Are you a better judge then GOD? Judge not!! Show some tolerance!!

John 8
3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

GOD's Blessings to all of you!! Praise GOD for sending Jesus as a gift of grace to each and everyone of us!!

Punishment's are to be carried out when one leaves an obligation, and in this case the obligation is stay away from acts of polythiesm and disbelief, which is the worst thing one can do.

As for muslims "worshipping" the black-stone, or for a muslim to not care about the inward action couldn't be further from the truth. You clearly don't know the simple basics of Islam so why speak of something which you don't know?? Browse through the different sections of the forum and you're in for a surprise to see who muslims worship and what actions of the heart mean to a muslim so until then my advise is for you to remain silent since you have no facts except mere personal opinions and wishful thinking which do not reflect on neither Islam nor Muslims.

But as for jesus, the slave of Allah, this is what will be said in his own words on the day of judgement, or - and correct me if i'm wrong - I think you christians call it dooms day.

Allah says:

“And (remember) when God (Allah) will say (on the Day of Resurrection): 'O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you say unto men: “Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?”’ He will say: ‘Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner‑self though I do not know what is in Yours; truly, You, only You, are the All‑Knower of all that is hidden (and unseen).

‘Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allah) did command me to say: “Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.” And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them; and You are a Witness to all things’”

[al-Maa'idah 5:117]