Scores die in Israeli air strikes

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We cannot relent on the leaderships in the Muslim countries. For too long we have given them free reign to do whatever they please and look what we have incurred. The systematic debasement of everything Islamic in the world. The culuture, the people, the land, the history etc.
 
nocturnal said:
Taking on Israel isn't like fetching groceries. The only way the regional nations can do it is to launch a co-ordinated and concerted effort. An effort like that will almost certainly be fronted by Iran. But in order for that to happen, we need to force a change of opinion in the collective regional Arab leadership, because ousting them altogether as savoury as it may sound, isn't going to be easy.

But if there are sustained protests in all the major capitals, and the position of the leaderships becomes genuinely compromised, especially within the military, from where the chances of a coup could be enhanced, then they are likely to accede to public opinion and do something about it.

There can be no such concept as international consensus on this when the nations defining the consensus are the ones who have deep and vested interests in the security of israel. It's time we took rigid action as an Ummah.
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Lets us say, hypothetically, a coup does occur in every arab/muslim country. The muslim brotherhood takes over Egypt, Jordan and Syria, hezbullah takes over Lebanon, and so on. Now what? Should they all declare war on Israel? Should they all cease the selling of oil to western countries, as Saudi Arabia did once (correct if I am wrong). What is the next step?
 
:sl:

As USA always says: Isreal has right to defend themselves, even if it means killing hundreds of civilians during few days (now amount of victims is 300 and at least 1000 are wounded - without medical supplies, fuel and electricity amount of deaths will be rise soon).

But have Palestinians right to defend themselves at all?

Isrealis of cource by they american made high-tech missiles, F16s´ and tank fire over the border against civilian houses, mosques, schools, hospitals, pharmacies etc. can just make is more effectively and kill more people than Palestinians by they homemade missiles....

Firing missiles over border to isreal is an act of terrorism but firing Gazans by modern weapons is just "defending"?
 
Even if Iran aquired a nuke, they wont use it against Israel because they'll blow Gaza and the West Bank away with it. Plus, the west will probably nuke Iran in retaliation.
 
IMHO there will never be peace because neither want it.
Israel's prime objective it to get more land.
Palestinians prime objective is to kill/destroy Israel.
 
You are right indeed. Saudi Arabia did cease selling oil in protest at the US continued support for Israel in the Yom Kippur War. It was a directive of King Faisal. If the scenario that you've alluded to does transpire, the next step would be with regards to israel, either to demand immedieate cessation of all hostilities and withdrawal to the pre 1967 borders, or the total liberation of all Palestine. It would have to be a considered policy.

I do recognize that the jews have always had a historic presence in the region, but the persecution of the Palestinians, the right of return, the dispossession, the ignominy of check points, the settlements, all this must be stopped and reversed.

If you're trying to say that we should not do anything because we don't have a clearly defined long term strategy, this is a colossal misjudgment.
 
Continuing in my (lone) quest to find an answer to how this started, who’s entitled to what and what each side wants, I discovered the following:

Both the Palestinians and the Jews are descendants of Abraham.
The original Jews, the 12 tribes of the descendants of Jacob lived in Canaan, the area east and west of Jerusalem.
For 2000+ years prior to the 7C the people now calling themselves Palestinians were living in the same region and were either Pagans, Christians or Jews.
Genetically (through DNA comparisons) the Palestinians are closest to the Jews.

So it seems to me that the Palestinians are Jews who converted to Islam and adopted Arabic as their mother tongue.
 
Wilma_Hum said:
IMHO there will never be peace because neither want it.
Israel's prime objective it to get more land.
Palestinians prime objective is to kill/destroy Israel.
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This is not true. The Palestinian aim is not to destroy or kill israelis, it is to seek justice. We want a viable Palestinian state, we want this separation barrier, settlements and checkpoints dismantled. The Embargo to be lifted. And an equitable distribution of land which redresses the injustices meted out to the Palestinians in the aftermath of the Nakba in 48, and the later 1967 war.

Since then, Israel, with American backing has steadily, and systematically encroached upon Palestinian rights and annexed their land arbitrarily. Is it wrong to ask for reparations for all these crimes, which as Richard Falk pointed out, are tantamount to crimes against humanity. When you have 1.5 million people being tortured for the actions of a few, and this is endorsed by the US, surely you cannot reproach the Palestinains for defending their rights.
 
nocturnal said:
If the scenario that you've alluded to does transpire, the next step would be with regards to israel, either to demand immedieate cessation of all hostilities and withdrawal to the pre 1967 borders, or the total liberation of all Palestine. It would have to be a considered policy.
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If Israel refuses?
 
nocturnal said:
This is not true. The Palestinian aim is not to destroy or kill israelis, it is to seek justice. We want a viable Palestinian state, we want this separation barrier, settlements and checkpoints dismantled. The Embargo to be lifted. And an equitable distribution of land which redresses the injustices meted out to the Palestinians in the aftermath of the Nakba in 48, and the later 1967 war.
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Indeed but that's not what Hamas wants!

The Hamas party platform, articulated in the 1988 Hamas Charter, provides a useful glimpse into what they want:

* Hamas' goal is Jihad and the death of Jews (Art. 7);
* All Muslims are duty-bound to commit Jihad against Israel (Art. 12);
* Peace is not an option (Art. 13);
* Western culture is a Zionist plot to distance women from Islam (Art. 17)
* Peace accords are treacherous schemes of Zionists (Art. 32);
 
nocturnal said:
This is not true. The Palestinian aim is not to destroy or kill israelis, it is to seek justice. We want a viable Palestinian state, we want this separation barrier, settlements and checkpoints dismantled. The Embargo to be lifted. And an equitable distribution of land which redresses the injustices meted out to the Palestinians in the aftermath of the Nakba in 48, and the later 1967 war.

Since then, Israel, with American backing has steadily, and systematically encroached upon Palestinian rights and annexed their land arbitrarily. Is it wrong to ask for reparations for all these crimes, which as Richard Falk pointed out, are tantamount to crimes against humanity. When you have 1.5 million people being tortured for the actions of a few, and this is endorsed by the US, surely you cannot reproach the Palestinains for defending their rights.
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The destruction of Israel is one of the stated objectives of Hamas.

The Palestinians sent Suicide Bombers then Israel built the separation barrier.
It was a protective action.

The checkpoints intensified because the Palestinians sent Suicide Bombers.

I have no desire to defend Israel, I only care to defend the facts. I think the creation of Israel was morally wrong. But history has no "Undo" switch.

Could Israel have ever become a peaceful country?

We will never know because they have never been given a chance.
 
The solution is to have one country for both Palestinians and Jews and call it Canaan. Draw up a decent constitution making it a secular state with proportional representation - job done.

Where do I get the application forms for Tony Blair's Job?
 
Asalam alaykum,

The zionist regime of israel has killed over 300 palestinians, and wouded over 1000 people. Please make dua's for those who have lost their live, their families and those who are still having to live though this.

If you are able to please make a donation to muslum hands

a/c name: Muslim hands
Bank: natwest
Sort code 60-11-33
Accounts number 22820000
BIC code NWBK GB 2L
IBan no GB32 NWBK 6011 3322 8200 00

www.muslimhands.org

Jazak Allah khair
 
in addition ^

trees only cost £10 dats nothin, like a nice meal costs more then a tenna, so only a tenna can donate a olive tree, plus you can name them, so name the trees after the sahaba innaay!
 
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Thinker said:
The solution is to have one country for both Palestinians and Jews and call it Canaan. Draw up a decent constitution making it a secular state with proportional representation - job done.

Where do I get the application forms for Tony Blair's Job?
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Just one tiny problem: religion. Do you really expect ultra orthodox jews and religious muslims to live happily together? In a secular state? :exhausted
 
chacha_jalebi said:
^ what peace?

why dont israel stop bombin innocents, then peace will be achieved, why is peace only talked about when muslims do somethin, its a 2 way thing peace not a one way thing,
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I guess the reason Israel doesn't stop bombin innocents is different that the reason the Palestinians continue to target innocents with there rockets.

Your right that peace is " a 2 way thing" and "not a one way thing".

So my question is why do you only speak out against one side?
 
Wilma_Hum said:
I guess the reason Israel doesn't stop bombin innocents is different that the reason the Palestinians continue to target innocents with there rockets.

Your right that peace is " a 2 way thing" and "not a one way thing".

So my question is why do you only speak out against one side?
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Because the oppression from Israel is apparent, while the most hamas have done is either bring a small damage to a building or hit empty ground!

The Israelis, however, massacered 1000's of woman and children during Lebenons bombardment for capturing 2 Israeli soldiers who crossed the borders of Lebenon. Now they retaliate on the Palistinians for a cease fire treaty they broke and they use Hama's rockets as an excuse to exterminate woman and children for no apparent reasons, since they broke the peace deal to begin with!

Hamas fires a rocket which makes no more then a hole in a wall, and in turn Israel massacer 300 (and rising) innocent woman and children and injure over 600. If this happened to your country you wouldn't dare ask such a question.
 
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