Muslims using Western Psychology and Mental Illness: Permissible or lies?

[Tariqa]

I was under the impression given the conviction in your writing that such stats would already be in your possession? nonetheless we'll be waiting insha'Allah for the moment you back up your claims with some evidence from a reputed source!

Yes im i know but i dont want to say it without being 100% sure... but that one statisic i gavce you was clear

who decides? licensed physicians who go through 8 yrs of school and anywhere from 3-7 years of residency and grueling exams -- further if you have read anything I wrote at all and mulled over it, you'd know that no one is held against their will unless they threaten harm to themselves or others! and confinement in the hospital is no more than 72 hrs. It costs $800 for a hospital bed alone at night let alone medication and services.. No one wants to hold anyone in a hospital unless they themselves will be liable by a court of law for letting a potential criminal go!

what does 8 years of school make anyone an expert.. so tell me the black magic schools are oficaial..?? because somone goes to a school for 8 years of non sense that makes him worthy of an opinion??

Medications have to go through three or possible four phases of trials before they are put out for human use.. in phase IV any potential undesired side effects can mark the death of a Medication irregardless of time, money, research and FDA approval-- it is a 'grueling' process-- you can always purchase 'natural herbs' and risk a certain death with drugs unregulated by the FDA .. you really should read about that more? some of the diseases relevant to our time weren't relevant during the time of the prophet and vice versa... you want to treat such disease as acute lymphoblastic leukemia (ALL) with black seed and honey, be my guest, simply don't impose your views on the whole.. One thing I know for a fact is that Allah swt will ask us, what we have done with our health on the day of recompense.. if there is available treatment with 95% chance of cure rate and you chose to forgo it for delusions of 'natural cures' then just simply be responsible for your own soul.. I'd be very careful what information I spill out there with such authority.. You have no formal training in Islamic jurisprudence or in Medicine.. I don't know what you have to gain by disseminating this sort of nonsense?!

It seems as if you do not beleve in black seed and honey.. may allah forgive you if you trust some western kafir more so then the muslims.. what you dont seem to understand is that these same drugs you seem to trust are root causes and leads to other diseases. for example you ever heard aids is a created disease by the governemet?? the principle lies in this notion that the medication they give to treat hiv is what causes the disease to mutate into aids.. you se it could be the reason we have so many new diseases is because we have been doing som many drugs... maybe to perserve your life you would need to give up this drugged mentality.. people are dying in mass numbers.. 95% is far an exageration i assure you...

 

[جوري]

Yes im i know but i dont want to say it without being 100% sure... but that one statisic i gavce you was clear

All I have so far is your word to go on & so far you are neither consistent nor credible!

what does 8 years of school make anyone an expert.. so tell me the black magic schools are oficaial..?? because somone goes to a school for 8 years of non sense that makes him worthy of an opinion??

I have no idea what that means.. what are your qualifications then? These are the standard set.. Just like in Islam, if you want to become a scholar you need formal schooling, in science if you want to become a scholar you need formal schooling.. seems rudimentary?

It seems as if you do not beleve in black seed and honey.. may allah forgive you if you trust some western kafir more so then the muslims

Where in my post did I state, I don't believe in black seed and honey?

.. what you dont seem to understand is that these same drugs you seem to trust are root causes and leads to other diseases. for example you ever heard aids is a created disease by the governemet?? the principle lies in this notion that the medication they give to treat hiv is what causes the disease to mutate into aids.. you se it could be the reason we have so many new diseases is because we have been doing som many drugs... maybe to perserve your life you would need to give up this drugged mentality.. people are dying in mass numbers.. 95% is far an exageration i assure you..

All medications have side effects, that is the case with any xenobiotic -- Licorice is a natural plant that many middle easterners have as drinks, yet chronic licorice intoxication is a well-recognized cause of hypokalemia and hypertension and metabolic alkalosis, mineralocorticoid excess and possible long term cardiac arrhythmia..

Without research and Medicine folks wouldn't know that?


Anyhow, I am not sure why folks even entertain you, seems the majority have lost interest..

 

[Tariqa]

All I have so far is your word to go on & so far you are neither consistent nor credible!

if you dont beleve me i will provide sources. its not easy ..this is a very difficult subject and well kept secrete

I have no idea what that means.. what are your qualifications then? These are the standard set.. Just like in Islam, if you want to become a scholar you need formal schooling, in science if you want to become a scholar you need formal schooling.. seems rudimentary?

what i mean is that whi says this science is really even a sceince.. You cant just judge a mans expertise because he went to school what about if that school was a flawed school..?? does that make him qualifies in islam then??

Where in my post did I state, I don't believe in black seed and honey?

if that is what your implying that black seed is a joke because we have medical advancements then thats what i got out of what you said espeecialy when you said that i may be delusional about anceint healings.

All medications have side effects, that is the case with any xenobiotic -- Licorice is a natural plant that many middle easterners have as drinks, yet chronic licorice intoxication is a well-recognized cause of hypokalemia and hypertension and metabolic alkalosis, mineralocorticoid excess and possible long term cardiac arrhythmia..

That is claerly wrong.. Honey does not have any side effects except for exceptions, rare exceptions... We are not talking about side effects, we are talking about the drugs itself being the effect...!!!
Without research and Medicine folks wouldn't know that?

Anyhow, I am not sure why folks even entertain you, seems the majority have lost interest..

mahashallah

 

[جوري]

if you dont beleve me i will provide sources. its not easy ..this is a very difficult subject and well kept secrete

lol.. then how is it this secret knowledge is made available only to you? How did you formulate your opinion? You interviewed your neighbors or better yet, ran a randomized double blind clinical trial of which the FBI is persecuting you for an all out expose against the AMA?

what i mean is that whi says this science is really even a sceince.. You cant just judge a mans expertise because he went to school what about if that school was a flawed school..?? does that make him qualifies in islam then??

I don't understand what you mean? Science is about being able to produce solutions in some problem domain.. if you are successful widely so, you document it and it becomes the standard of care until something even better comes along.. being a doctor imposes on you CME yearly (continuing medical education) in order to stay current and renew your license.. a faulty or flawed school means nothing if you are capable of passing the standardized international exams taken by physicians the world over..
I really don't like hypotheticals.. you have challenged science with nothing much to go on save your own accusations.. yet you provide us with no evidence or even your own credentials whether theological or scientific.. do you not find this preposterous?

if that is what your implying that black seed is a joke because we have medical advancements then thats what i got out of what you said espeecialy when you said that i may be delusional about anceint healings.

Again, I am asking you, where I stated black seed is a joke.. I think you are delusional period. I have a book of prophetic medicine here and it doesn't stray too far from the modern scientific method.. Black seed and honey take but two pages of a 359 page book.. which I'll go on a limb and say you probably don't even have in your possession?
http://www.darussalam.com/product_info.php?products_id=195

That is claerly wrong.. Honey does not have any side effects except for exceptions, rare exceptions... We are not talking about side effects, we are talking about the drugs itself being the effect...!!!
Without research and Medicine folks wouldn't know that?



mahashallah

Where did I mention 'Honey' is a medication or has side effects in my post, perhaps you can quote me? in fact Honey is being used to combat MRSA

http://tahilla.typepad.com/mrsawatch/mrsa_wounds_honey/index.html

A British scientist has clinched a £28,000 grant to fund research into how simple breakfast honey can combat the killer MRSA superbug. Microbiologist Dr Rose Cooper, based at the University of Wales Institute, Cardiff, began studying the health benefits of honey eight years ago, and now she is savouring the sweet smell of success. Cash from the British Society for Anti-Microbial Chemotherapy will fund 12 months' research into the role of New Zealand manuka honey in the fight against MRSA.

as well a host of other disease, YES still by modern Medicine..
Perhaps the problem is that you are gauging a subject of which you have no knowledge whatsoever ..

and admittance of an ill executed thought isn't defeat, keeping the nonsense up and deducing what you desire to see in terms of flaws in the thoughts of others however is!

 

[doorster]

.. I am not a crack pot ...

can you prove it?

Again to the admin who is saying or is stating that depression is cause by chemical imbalances i say prove it.... You forget mister that depression is not a law..

if there is NO real mental illness then why did Allah and his Prophet prohibit punishments for crimes by the mentally ill (except in afghani/saudi/iranian practice due to distorted versions of Islam)?

edit:

and why was first ever psychiatric hospital in the world opened by Muslims?
eace:

whats up fake mullah saab? did you not see this? ^^

honey and black seed is a cure all solution for all illness? do you really believe that medicine should be abandoned in favor of it?

why are people dying of old age at around 45 in Pakistan (with exception of rich who have access to latest medicine?)

I bet I get abused for this post and get accused of insulting this half-read ignoramus by <snipped> but mullah is being let off for repeated false accusations against other Muslims, who seem to me to be more more learned and he keeps implying that Skye and Woodrow need forgiveness for being educated as if not to remain ignorant is a sin

I apologize if anyone has misunderstood me.. I am not a crack pot nor does anyone hear me issuing fatwas

your very first lesson in Islamic Arabic terminology:
A fatwā [فتوى ], is an opinion about religious matters (no matter if its from a real aalim or a lahnatullah or any loony who has delusions of being a scholar

 

[Woodrow]

if you dont beleve me i will provide sources. its not easy ..this is a very difficult subject and well kept secrete

It is such a well kept secrete that those of us who are or have been in the medical field have not seen it either.

what i mean is that whi says this science is really even a sceince.. You cant just judge a mans expertise because he went to school what about if that school was a flawed school..?? does that make him qualifies in islam then??

There is a bit more involved than simply Graduating from school. After schooling there are internships, passing standardized licensing exams, meeting the standards of a hospital for your residency.

Now as far as does this make him qualified in Islam? No more and no less than becoming a pilot would qualify a person in Islam. A person who is a good Muslim need not change because they become a doctor, likewise a person who is not a Muslim will not become one because they don't become a doctor.

if that is what your implying that black seed is a joke because we have medical advancements then thats what i got out of what you said espeecialy when you said that i may be delusional about anceint healings.

When black seed is used for what it is designed for it is a medicine but even it can be misused. Such as being given for things it has no healing powers for. the early Muslims were also well skilled in surgery and other forms of medicines.

That is claerly wrong.. Honey does not have any side effects except for exceptions, rare exceptions... We are not talking about side effects, we are talking about the drugs itself being the effect...!!!

When honey is used properly that is true. But like all things honey too can be misused. A potent intoxicant, ouzel I beleive is the name, is made from honey and is a popular liquar in several countries. Many people believe it is not an intoxicant because the alcohol is produced from fermented honey instead of fermented fruit.

As sister Skye stated any occupation can be used for the wrong purposes. Raising grain is a good thing, but it is also the base for many alcoholic beverages, beer, whiskey, vodka, ale, mead etc.. Alcohol is responsible for many deaths, the destruction of homes and broken families.

Does that make farming an evil occupation? Without farming there would be no large scale production of alcoholic beverages. Alcohol could very well be the single most destructive product on earth.

Now let us take automobiles. More people die each year in automobile accidents than in the worse war year of WW2. Does that mean to become a licensed driver is an evil endeavor and that Muslims should not learn to drive as it contributes to road slaughter? Nearly all accidents are the result of driver error, are drivers trained to kill? So far more people have died or became maimed because of faulty drivers, than in all of the known wars combined.

 

[Tariqa]

It is such a well kept secrete that those of us who are or have been in the medical field have not seen it either.

Its not a secrte because we know its true.. its just not that popularly known..

There is a bit more involved than simply Graduating from school. After schooling there are internships, passing standardized licensing exams, meeting the standards of a hospital for your residency.

iot doesnt matter.. many people will beleve any idiot just because he has a degree.. that doesnt make thje field he has got his degree in any more valid becuase its on paper.. the whole profesion could be a sham..


.

When black seed is used for what it is designed for it is a medicine but even it can be misused. Such as being given for things it has no healing powers for. the early Muslims were also well skilled in surgery and other forms of medicines.

were not denying that but there were many muslims that did things that the prophet did not do.. for see eating onions.. the prophet did not eat these things but the muslims still did it.. maybe since its not the sunnah to do you think maybe thats a sgin that we should not do so either??

Now let us take automobiles. More people die each year in automobile accidents than in the worse war year of WW2. Does that mean to become a licensed driver is an evil endeavor and that Muslims should not learn to drive as it contributes to road slaughter? Nearly all accidents are the result of driver error, are drivers trained to kill? So far more people have died or became maimed because of faulty drivers, than in all of the known wars combined.

This is different.. you cannot compare a theory of mental illness to the fact of cars.. We can see cars and choose not to drive them, but we cannot say the same about mental illness..

 

[doorster]

Its not a secrte because we know its true.. its just not that popularly known..

iot doesnt matter.. many people will beleve any idiot just because he has a degree.. that doesnt make thje field he has got his degree in any more valid becuase its on paper.. the whole profesion could be a sham..

were not denying that but there were many muslims that did things that the prophet did not do.. for see eating onions.. the prophet did not eat these things but the muslims still did it.. maybe since its not the sunnah to do you think maybe thats a sgin that we should not do so either??

This is different.. you cannot compare a theory of mental illness to the fact of cars.. We can see cars and choose not to drive them, but we cannot say the same about mental illness..

How many have you got?

Lesson 1 in English terminology:

Idiot: (definition of)

• a person of subnormal intelligence

• idiotic - crackbrained: insanely irresponsible
• idiotic - absurd: incongruous;inviting ridicule
• idiotic - imbecile: having a mental age of three to seven years

word Idiot is derived from the Greek language and was used to classify individuals with severe mental retardation. These individuals were unable to function well enough to take care of themselves and required care around the clock. They could never hope to get any degree from an educational institute, however, some do manage to escape from mental institutions and end up here to wreak havoc on forums until they are recaptured.

 

[Tariqa]

word Idiot is derived from the Greek language and was used to classify individuals with severe mental retardation. These individuals were unable to function well enough to take care of themselves and required care around the clock. They could never hope to get any degree from an educational institute, however, some do manage to escape from mental institutions and end up here to wreak havoc on forums until they are recaptured

people will escept an idiots word if he has somthing opf value.. what are you getting it.. many people are very ignorant what is your point???

 

[doorster]

people will escept an idiots word if he has somthing opf value.. what are you getting it.. many people are very ignorant what is your point???

do you own a full length mirror?

 

[Tariqa]

excuse my spelling but i am not an idiot im waiting for someone to prove me wrong as what i am saying is clearly true...

 

[doorster]

yeah! clearly you are not an idiot since only an idiot will go to school and university to waste years, when he could simply have made do with myth and magic and become Amish-like, how dare we use evil western medicine when Prophet clearly had none of it likewise how dare we use Jeep, helicopter, jet fighter in our armed forces when prophet won battles on horse back

 

[Tariqa]

yeah! clearly you are not an idiot since only an idiot will go to school and university to waste years, when he could simply have made do with myth and magic and become Amish-like, how dare we use evil western medicine when Prophet clearly had none of it likewise how dare we use Jeep, helicopter, jet fighter in our armed forces when prophet won battles on horse back

It seems you are mocking me but think about this.. how much haram insurnce moeny do you pay to keep your jeeps and stuff.. how many haram pictures do you see on people to keep cars.. maybe there is wisdom in keeping to the sunnah as close as possible...


I would not object to becoming amishlike especially since people are predicting global warming may be caused by us..

its a shame so many muslims go to schools to get degrees that have prerequites that have nothing to do with the degree..

 

[doorster]

It seems you are mocking me but think about this.. how much haram insurnce moeny do you pay to keep your jeeps and stuff.. how many haram pictures do you see on people to keep cars.. maybe there is wisdom in keeping to the sunnah as close as possible...


I would not object to becoming amishlike especially since people are predicting global warming may be caused by us..

its a shame so many muslims go to schools to get degrees that have prerequites that have nothing to do with the degree..

right again, we should give up every piece of modern armaments in favor of sword, it will not only make us green but enable kuffar to send us to paradise quicker and a lot easier than at present.

 

[جوري]

excuse my spelling but i am not an idiot im waiting for someone to prove me wrong as what i am saying is clearly true...

I think everyone on board has proven you wrong thus far, I am not sure why you have this desire to beat a dead horse? You are certainly welcome to the life style of your choosing .. It is also Islamic not to preoccupy yourself so much and be overly judgmental with what your neighbors are doing, given you lack basic knowledge in almost every topic you've gauged, you might do folks more harm than good-- though I doubt you inspire a little more than a minor itch on everyone's side..


and Allah swt knows best

 

[Tariqa]

I think everyone on board has proven you wrong thus far, I am not sure why you have this desire to beat a dead horse? You are certainly welcome to the life style of your choosing .. It is also Islamic not to preoccupy yourself so much and be overly judgmental with what your neighbors are doing, given you lack basic knowledge in almost every topic you've gauged, you might do folks more harm than good-- though I doubt you inspire a little more than a minor itch on everyone's side..


and Allah swt knows best

by allah name one thing that one person has proven me wrong at..

the scholars say that its best to use a sword because the prophet used a sword.. but in the case of murder we can use what they use so if they use a gun we can.. that does not make it right.. that just means we are doing it becuase we have to not because we want to...

the sword is somthing a rather use but it may be that in this day.. the modern weapons will be wiser ..not better but wiser.. it is a shame many muslims mock others for thier wisdom and what they do not understand..

 

[جوري]

by allah name one thing that one person has proven me wrong at....

Actually everyone has-- further gone to do what you have failed to accomplish and that is provide reason and credible sources!.. your failure to accept what others wrote, is a matter entirely different.
You are entitled to your sole beliefs at this point!
reason should be built upon logic, and it is also the very foundation of our religion.. it isn't subject to your archaic interpretation and crude understanding.. on the lowest common denominator you are not even a scholar. If we are to forgo the scientist aspect of someone who wishes to discuss science, we shouldn't forgo the scholar aspect of someone who wishes to discuss religion.. but seems at both end, neither is to your liking, that is NOT anything anyone can help.. with that said, do and live as you please!

waslaam 3lykoum wr wb

 

[Tariqa]

Actually everyone has-- further gone to do what you have failed to accomplish and that is provide reason and credible sources!.. your failure to accept what others wrote, is a matter entirely different.
You are entitled to your sole beliefs at this point!
reason should be built upon logic, and it is also the very foundation of our religion.. it isn't subject to your archaic interpretation and crude understanding.. on the lowest common denominator you are not even a scholar. If we are to forgo the scientist aspect of someone who wishes to discuss science, we shouldn't forgo the scholar aspect of someone who wishes to discuss religion.. but seems at both end, neither is to your liking, that is NOT anything anyone can help.. with that said, do and live as you please!

waslaam 3lykoum wr wb

you need a credible source??? this is fine but you cannot say that anyone has proven me wrong when i have sources.. just because i have been too busy to get sources does not make me wrong...

and again i have been studing sceince and islam since i was a child.. and yet and still i do not say that i am a better scientist or scholar then so and so.. much of what i say is from others opinions.. i am only conveying the message if you do not like what i say do not attack me attack the one where i have got my information from..

oh right you need sources..
please be pateint because like i have said , the imformation i recieve is not common knowledge... i am like a jewler i seek only the most rare of gems... much of what i know is not the least common to the average thinker.. much of what i say takes loogic to understand.. many get emotional the minute they hear of anything i have found...

so again be pateint,.... i will be happy to give you the sources.. but it will take me much research indeed.. like classified information you cannot expect to just find it in your local library.. they do not want you to know the negitive sides of medicine which is why many only talk about only the positive sides..

fyi did you even know ALL drugs are poisions??? i bet you id not because this is somthing the drug agenicies would might not like to get out into common thougts...

 

[جوري]

you need a credible source??? this is fine but you cannot say that anyone has proven me wrong when i have sources.. just because i have been too busy to get sources does not make me wrong..

.
Interesting.. but what are people basing their judgment on?
1-You have done no formal research.
2-you didn't tighten the confidence interval on your non existing research as to make it credible
3-You didn't provide research of others to support your point of view
4- you didn't list the flaws or confounders in the research offered you --
I am a little at a loss.. exactly how are you correct?

and again i have been studing sceince and islam since i was a child.. and yet and still i do not say that i am a better scientist or scholar then so and so.. much of what i say is from others opinions.. i am only conveying the message if you do not like what i say do not attack me attack the one where i have got my information from..

Thus far every post of yours is replete with insults towards proper schooling whether by Islamic scholars or 'western science' .. I am not sure exactly what science or what Islam you have learned? your posts are puerile at best!

oh right you need sources..
please be pateint because like i have said , the imformation i recieve is not common knowledge... i am like a jewler i seek only the most rare of gems... much of what i know is not the least common to the average thinker.. much of what i say takes loogic to understand.. many get emotional the minute they hear of anything i have found...

Again, the only person here who is emotional is you, but you are projecting! -- on the previous page, we told you, we'd wait for your sources and research, why do you go on insisting you are correct without backing it up for pages of nonsense.. even if we'll consider you of a milatonic mind, do grant some respite to us bucolic country oafs and throw us a little bone we can sink our teeth in!

so again be pateint,.... i will be happy to give you the sources.. but it will take me much research indeed.. like classified information you cannot expect to just find it in your local library.. they do not want you to know the negitive sides of medicine which is why many only talk about only the positive sides..

we'll be waiting!

fyi did you even know ALL drugs are poisions??? i bet you id not because this is somthing the drug agenicies would might not like to get out into common thougts..

I believe I have told you as much on the previous page if you'll bother reading.. I believe I also told you about three phases of clinical trials, as well, you may in your secret research read upon 'lethal dose' 'Toxic dose' 'therapeutic dose' area under the curve (MAC) we have plenty of pharmacists on board I am sure who can explain this to you in greater details if you are still having difficulty..

The point of medicine is the greater good, the pros vs. cons, It isn't the fountain of youth, as even doctors die!

but thanks for the heads up!

all the best

waslaam 3lykoum wr wb

 

[Tariqa]

Interesting.. but what are people basing their judgment on?
1-You have done no formal research.
2-you didn't tighten the confidence interval on your non existing research as to make it credible
3-You didn't provide research of others to support your point of view
4- you didn't list the flaws or confounders in the research offered you --
I am a little at a loss.. exactly how are you correct?

I did.
inshallaha i will
i will inshallah and i did
i did and i will inshallah.. if i did not

Thus far every post of yours is replete with insults towards proper schooling whether by Islamic scholars or 'western science' .. I am not sure exactly what science or what Islam you have learned? your posts are puerile at best!

I do not insult anyone....and allah knows best

Again, the only person here who is emotional is you, but you are projecting! -- on the previous page, we told you, we'd wait for your sources and research, why do you go on insisting you are correct without backing it up for pages of nonsense.. even if we'll consider you of a milatonic mind, do grant some respite to us bucolic country oafs and throw us a little bone we can sink our teeth in!

i am not emotional.. i will correct any false information as need in order to keep moving along to get my point across.
I have proof.. but it seems you and others keep pressing me fopr proof.. its like you keep saying "prove it prove it." give me some time so that i can get the proof..

we'll be waiting!

alhumdulillah

I believe I have told you as much on the previous page if you'll bother reading.. I believe I also told you about three phases of clinical trials, as well, you may in your secret research read upon 'lethal dose' 'Toxic dose' 'therapeutic dose' area under the curve (MAC) we have plenty of pharmacists on board I am sure who can explain this to you in greater details if you are still having difficulty..

I dont understand what that has to do with anything.. drugs are poisions and every doctor should know that..

The point of medicine is the greater good, the pros vs. cons, It isn't the fountain of youth, as even doctors die!

yes the greater good.. yeah but do you know how many people are dying in america alone... 75% of the country or so is obese... 91% of the people that may go to the dentist regularly has cavities... these numbers indicate that the medical worlds is the leading causer of death in america let alone the world.. mental illness treatments alone has killed more people than any wars has done...health complications is at its highest of ills.. how can you say its doing more good then bad..??? who is doing the judging???