Obama orders halt to Guantánamo Bay tribunals

[nocturnal]

I certainly don't think condemning israel will mitigate the suffering of the Palestinias on it's own, so yes it must be accompanied by action. But the reason i am focusing on a condemnation is because historically the US had accorded this murderous entity such deference, that a condemnation has always been defined as concerned. So, for example, an american president's condemnation of israel's actions in Gaza would be, "i am concerned about the situation in Gaza". That is the level of absurdity we are dealing with here.

So obviously, from such a historical viewpoint,i wouldn't expect even a pontificating, apparently angelic Obama to terminate weapons supplies to the zionists. But the least, the very least he could have done was condemned stridently, and purposefully these savage acts against an innocent population. If ever i had even a residual doubt in my mind tha obama would turn out to be just another craven zionist-sympathiser, it's now been firmly cast away.

So called sustained patient diplomacy does not work with barbarians.

 

[Grace Seeker]

If ever i had even a residual doubt in my mind tha obama would turn out to be just another craven zionist-sympathiser, it's now been firmly cast away.

Two days in office and you expect him to have fixed everything. Believe it or not, he is has other things to do besides try to mediate a problem that neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians seem to have any genuine interest in resolving unless they can each get entirely their own way. And of course they can't both win and the other lose. Most likely, if there is to be any sort of lasting peace, it is going to require both sides admitting to wrong doing and neither side seeking retribution. Thus far such thoughts are just pipe dreams. Given that, what can Obama, or any other government really say?

So called sustained patient diplomacy does not work with barbarians.

And neither do the tactics the two sides are currently employing. This is one time I agree with Shakespearan diplomacy: "A pox on both their houses."

 

[nocturnal]

The US cannot and will not shift it's israel policy unless unrelenting mass pressure is brought to bear on the government and it's vast network of bureaus, especially the state department.

Simply by instigating the public to condemn israel's atrocities, that will not be enough, because we've seen that before countless times, it happened with Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam etc. It's only when the public are sensitized about what militarily and politically underwriting israel costs the US in terms of it's monetary effects and the acute and expanded threat to it's national security and citizens.

 

[nocturnal]

Two days in office and you expect him to have fixed everything. Believe it or not, he is has other things to do besides try to mediate a problem that neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians seem to have any genuine interest in resolving unless they can each get entirely their own way. And of course they can't both win and the other lose. Most likely, if there is to be any sort of lasting peace, it is going to require both sides admitting to wrong doing and neither side seeking retribution. Thus far such thoughts are just pipe dreams. Given that, what can Obama, or any other government really say?

And neither do the tactics the two sides are currently employing. This is one time I agree with Shakespearan diplomacy: "A pox on both their houses."

This is absolute nonsense. He does not need to be in office for 2 years to implement a new diplomatic strategy to resolving the crisis. He is the president and commander-in-chief of the US and it's armed forces. All it takes is for him to make a sound analysis and judgment of the siutation and step up to roundly condemn israel, and if he really does respect international law, to cease immedieatly, the sales of weapons to this militarist, suppressive, and genocidal regime.

Israel is engaging in a systematic policy of ethnic cleansing being sponsored by the US. Obama doesn't need 2 terms to discern that for himself.

 

[Grace Seeker]

This is absolute nonsense. He does not need to be in office for 2 years to implement a new diplomatic strategy to resolving the crisis. He is the president and commander-in-chief of the US and it's armed forces. All it takes is for him to make a sound analysis and judgment of the siutation and step up to roundly condemn israel, and if he really does respect international law, to cease immedieatly, the sales of weapons to this militarist, suppressive, and genocidal regime.

Israel is engaging in a systematic policy of ethnic cleansing being sponsored by the US. Obama doesn't need 2 terms to discern that for himself.

2 days, 2 years, 2 terms, 2 centuries. Unless both sides are ready to move on and give up their juvenile "he started it" excuses, there is no purpose for Obama or anyone else to waste time on people who obviously don't understand the meaning of either shalom or salaam, or who simply don't truly want peace as much as they want power and reprisal.

Also, I don't believe that the US "sponsors" Israeli agression any more than it sponsored the acts of Iraq against Iran. But I do agree that the USA should quite being a weapons dealer, and not just to Israel, but the rest of the world as well.

 

[crayon]

Obama Calls for Plan on Withdrawing US Troops from Iraq

U.S. President Barack Obama has told military leaders to draw up any additional plans necessary for a responsible U.S. troop withdrawal from Iraq.

Mr. Obama called for the measure during a meeting with his national security team on Wednesday.

The new president has vowed to withdraw troops from Iraq within 16 months.
He also supports a plan to nearly double the U.S. troop presence in Afghanistan, where violence has increased in recent months.

In a statement, Mr. Obama called Wednesday's meeting productive. He said he planned to consult military leaders in the coming days to review the situation in Afghanistan, in order to develop a comprehensive strategy for the entire region.

Separately on Wednesday in Iraq, a Sunni politician escaped unharmed after an attack on his convoy just north of Baghdad. The bombing killed four students.

Ziyad al-Ani heads Baghdad's Islamic University and belongs to the Iraqi Islamic Party, a large Sunni Arab faction in parliament.

The attack came ahead of Iraq's provincial elections on January 31. Two politicians have already been murdered, and Iraqi security officials fear more violence in the days leading up to the vote.

http://www.voanews.com/english/2009-01-22-voa15.cfm

 

[crayon]

double post.

 

[Qingu]

This is absolute nonsense. He does not need to be in office for 2 years to implement a new diplomatic strategy to resolving the crisis. He is the president and commander-in-chief of the US and it's armed forces. All it takes is for him to make a sound analysis and judgment of the siutation and step up to roundly condemn israel, and if he really does respect international law, to cease immedieatly, the sales of weapons to this militarist, suppressive, and genocidal regime.

Nocturnal, I think you are dramatically underestimating how long it takes to come up with an effective diplomatic strategy that will help the Palestinians.

You have acknowledged that merely condemning Israel will not result in any help for Palestinians. Now it seems like you want Obama to just wave a magic wand and force Israel to stop acting like barbarians.

That is impossible. Again, even if we condemned Israel and cut off funding, they still have plenty of weapons and armor; they do not need our aid or approval to massacre Palestinians anymore than they need the U.N.'s.

Israel is engaging in a systematic policy of ethnic cleansing being sponsored by the US. Obama doesn't need 2 terms to discern that for himself.

First of all, "ethnic cleansing" is too harsh. If Israel was engaged in ethnic cleansing, a lot more than 1,000 people would be dead. I am not defending Israel's actions, I'm simply saying you're mischaracterizing them.

Secondly, you have absolutely no idea what Obama has "discerned" about Israel's actions. It is wildly unfair to just assume he is an evil Zionist conspirator simply on the basis of two days in office (in which he has done plenty of other stuff). Grace Seeker is absolutely right—if America is going to help find a diplomatic solution to this crisis, it is going to take a lot longer than two days, and you are going to have to be patient and lower your expectations. Be realistic.