Scientific Errors

[Azy]

Not only have you not read the OT but you haven't the 'dead sea scrolls' exactly why should anyone care what you think?

You seem to care enough to respond to nigh on every post I make. Why on earth would you think I hadn't read the OT?

That is indeed a statement free of personal prejudices, a challenge of the Quran was to bring a sura like it even if it were the shortest which is suret Al kawathar composed only of three verses.
The criteria for language, syntax, rhyme transcendence and meaning.

It's not a challenge that can be objectively judged.

By the way, does that challenge only apply to Arabic writings?

"if you think this Qur'an is fabricated, then why don't you write your own book and follow that? See if that enjoys the same success as the word of God."

What a bizarre claim to make considering the man-made Bible was the dominant religion for so long and has 2 billion followers.

You ask alot of non-questions-- as silly as you are silly!

Taqqiyah in action? You are very evasive when it suits you.

you google it and then come contradict me, not based on solid research knowledge or expereince but just out of love of negating a Muslim!

Why on earth would anyone do serious research to refute something based on faith? Surely that's an exercise in futility.

 

[Azy]

Don't make false allegations

What's false about them?

 

[جوري]

You seem to care enough to respond to nigh on every post I make.

Indeed but not about you.. or are you so vain to think you are the only one who browses a forum?

Why on earth would you think I hadn't read the OT?

Evident from your writing and the things you quote to support your writing!

It's not a challenge that can be objectively judged.

You are not the one who decides what objectivity is..
sort of like you can't have a writer's block if you have never been a writer!

By the way, does that challenge only apply to Arabic writings?

That is the miracle of the Quran.. A far richer language than any other.. but if you can write a book of guidance poetically in totality and have it cover every aspect of man's life, politics, economics, social structure, inheritance ideas and beliefs abd have it stand the test of time then by all means do so, we'll be waiting!

What a bizarre claim to make considering the man-made Bible was the dominant religion for so long and has 2 billion followers.

Do all Christians and their multiple bibles concur? Why do Catholics disagree with protestants or Mormons or Quakers etc

According to the World Christian Encyclopedia (year 2000 version), global Christianity had 33,820 denominations with 3,445,000 congregations/churches composed of 1,888 million affiliated Christians.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_different_types_of_Christianity_are_there
​

most of them considering the others complete heretics.. Does that equal dominant or divided in your dictionary?

Taqqiyah in action? You are very evasive when it suits you.

ataqwa ila ahel ataqwa, I owe you no artful prudence, as you have done nothing to earn it!

Why on earth would anyone do serious research to refute something based on faith? Surely that's an exercise in futility.

You write often based on faith, you only allege it's scientific to suit your own purposes and I have exposed you in many a posts doing just that.. Even the times when I sense a genuine change in you or a natural desire to learn it is quickly lost to one of your nonsensical posts!

all the best

 

[جوري]

What's false about them?

what is true about them?

 

[Azy]

Indeed but not about you.. or are you so vain to think you are the only one who browses a forum?

Why bother, you basically insulted me and sidelined me into a Quranic dispute when I was quite happy to discuss the actual topic with the OP. Where's the benefit for other forum users?

You are not the one who decides what objectivity is..

Most bizarre and glaringly obvious statement ever.

A far richer language than any other..

Again, subjective.

Do all Christians and their multiple bibles concur? Why do Catholics disagree with protestants or Mormons or Quakers etc

Essentially they're all descended from the same collection of writings so I think it's fair to say that those original texts have had quite some success. Besides, if you only count Catholics you're still at 1.2 billion.

According to the World Christian Encyclopedia (year 2000 version), global Christianity had 33,820 denominations

Yeah there's a discussion of those wild statistics here.

You write often based on faith, you only allege it's scientific to suit your own purposes and I have exposed you in many a posts doing just that.. Even the times when I sense a genuine change in you or a natural desire to learn it is quickly lost to one of your nonsensical posts!

Don't patronise me. I have a natural desire to learn, but why would I turn that to something like religion?
Plenty of people here are highly critical of other faiths shimmying their way round the inconsistencies in scripture but blinded by self-righteousness and incapable of critical self-analysis. There are genuine problems that will never be addressed objectively by believers and they're not part of some western/scientific/atheist conspiracy to discredit Islam. So long as you are a Muslim you will never consider the Quran with the scientific integrity that you accuse me of lacking.

 

[جوري]

Why bother, you basically insulted me and sidelined me into a Quranic dispute when I was quite happy to discuss the actual topic with the OP. Where's the benefit for other forum users?

You mistake exposing you where you overtly err for insults.. Perhaps you should reflect on your own private time why so many people on board seem to feel the same way about your posts as I do?
further, it is a child that mumbles and a man that speaks his mind.. why the hit and run? Why say does this apply to others (on an Islamic forum) if you really only meant to discuss the bible?

Most bizarre and glaringly obvious statement ever.

I have no idea what this means!

Again, subjective.

it is actually not-- if you know something on the study of languages.

Essentially they're all descended from the same collection of writings so I think it's fair to say that those original texts have had quite some success. Besides,

You need to back up what you write.. it is fair to say from something other than Gary or Larry or Steve's conclusions on cliff notes that haven't been scrutinized by many? ( I do detest going in circles) don't you?

if you only count Catholics you're still at 1.2 billion.
Yeah there's a discussion of those wild statistics here.

isn't it amazing for everything you post I can find a contradictory site?

There are between 1 billion and 1.8 billion Muslims, making Islam the second-largest religion in the world, after Christianity.[5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam
who is actually taking head count in secluded places?

except in islam as per article though I personally contend 90% not 85% are sunnis..
the Sunni (85%) and Shi'a (15%).
how many sects are there in Christianity again? I'd visit my previous post-- so suffice it to say.. I think we out number them...considering the majority of them contend the others are heretics.. how about you go asking Unitarians is Catholics are following Christianity or protestants whether Mormons are actually Christian? You count them under one banner but they are as different as can be!
as for the Catholics, they are already complaining:

Muslims more numerous than Catholics: Vatican
http://uk.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKL3068682420080330
further what is your point with numbers? is this an argumentum ad populum ? if such is the case why aren't you Christian?

Don't patronise me. I have a natural desire to learn, but why would I turn that to something like religion?

I don't know what this epiphany means?

Plenty of people here are highly critical of other faiths shimmying their way round the inconsistencies in scripture but blinded by self-righteousness and incapable of critical self-analysis. There are genuine problems that will never be addressed objectively by believers and they're not part of some western/scientific/atheist conspiracy to discredit Islam. So long as you are a Muslim you will never consider the Quran with the scientific integrity that you accuse me of lacking.

I can't count how many things are wrong with that statement, but I have had a long day so I'll cut it short.
There was a period in my life when I was an agnostic.. I didn't pray or consider myself Muslim until my early twenties (which wasn't that many yrs back).. I discovered Islam not while under the influence of some great scholar or pressure from parents and community and especially not while living in Saudi Arabia, but in my dorm room as a med student.. so don't come and speak to me of 'so long as I am Muslim I won't consider' such and such.. as you don't know the first thing about me! or other Muslims for that matter..
plus do you think I am stupid? You don't think I can tell genuine desire from genuine deception..
Do you Think Eric (from the forum) can be likened to someone like Alapiana? You can tell much about folks from their writing!
And lastly don't speak to me of problems in the Quran when all you have read are snippets of it on the websites of your choosing, further augmenting your lack of interest is any source that negates what you quote even if they are deemed equally credible.. There is a whole study which you can't even begin to fathom.
Not all headaches are treated with Aspirin, some are treated with electrophoresis.. are you studied enough and learned enough to know when and to tell the difference? Try to carry that analogy through when discussing with me, or any practicing Muslim their religion or what you conceive to be problems therein!


all the best!

 

[Whatsthepoint]

it is actually not-- if you know something on the study of languages.

Do tell!

 

[جوري]

Do tell!

Do your own research 'whatisthepoint' about world languages specifically Arabic and Chinese.. I am so tired of giving with such fidelity to this forum, I am actually starting to understand why the wise amongst left not for a hiatus but for good!

all the best

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Do your own research 'whatisthepoint' about world languages specifically Arabic and Chinese.. I am so tired of giving with such fidelity to this forum, I am actually starting to understand why the wise amongst left not for a hiatus but for good!

all the best

You amde a strong claim (Arabic is objectively a far richer language than any other) and I'd like you to support with with at least a shred of evidence, either from yourself or someone else.

 

[جوري]

You amde a strong claim (Arabic is objectively a far richer language than any other) and I'd like you to support with with at least a shred of evidence, either from yourself or someone else.

You should enroll in a university course such as
http://www.bucknell.edu/x2976.xml
if the study of language so interests you and pose questions to your preceptor:

Which language is most expressive, most complex in terms of parsing and constituent structure , most poetic, most historical etc and see how they answer you?
That is how most people (myself included) learn, by way of formal education inside academia not through google-- there is nothing subjective about it.. There is simply criteria that is met!

all the best

 

[Azy]

why the hit and run? Why say does this apply to others (on an Islamic forum) if you really only meant to discuss the bible?

"Indeed but not about you.. or are you so vain to think you are the only one who browses a forum?" Would seem to imply you do not post about me or solely for my benefit, so that leaves... others.

I have no idea what this means!
I don't know what this epiphany means?

Useful.

it is actually not-- if you know something on the study of languages.

"...the famed linguist, Prof George Babiniotis (whose dictionary adorns most literate Greeks’ bookshelves) and Irvine University of California who place Cretan as the richest language on the globe."
It was the French center’s 40 researchers who identified Oubykh as the world’s rarest language...
The Caucasian tongue is also “among the richest, if not the richest, language we know in terms of the sounds you have to make to speak it,” Bouquiaux added.
"English is the richest language with the largest vocabulary in the world."
"Hindi is Our Mother language and is the Language of the Nation. It is said that it is the richest Language as far as grammar is concerned."
German is usually considered the richest language. Dr. Lomb, K., Polyglot: How I learn languages p.104

I imagine those people know something on the study of languages.

You need to back up what you write..

You mean maybe I should have included an Amazon book review?

You count them under one banner but they are as different as can be![2]
further what is your point with numbers?[1]

1. You have the shortest memory of anyone I've spoken to. Reread Ansar's interpretation of the claim that you posted.
"if you think this Qur'an is fabricated, then why don't you write your own book and follow that? See if that enjoys the same success as the word of God."
I don't think all that time as the world's most populous denomination is a bad innings. I would also suggest that if the Quran had been revealed in the modern day it would probably not have found as many adherents.

2. There may well be many variants of Christianity now, but it's fair to say Luke and chums should get some credit for them all.

There was a period in my life when I was an agnostic.. ..I discovered Islam not while under the influence of some great scholar or pressure from parents and community and especially not while living in Saudi Arabia, but in my dorm room as a med student.. so don't come and speak to me of 'so long as I am Muslim I won't consider' such and such.. as you don't know the first thing about me! or other Muslims for that matter..

What are you trying to tell me? Am I to understand that coming to this decision without influence lends it some kind of rational credibility?

plus do you think I am stupid? You don't think I can tell genuine desire from genuine deception..

Obviously not.

You can tell much about folks from their writing!

I would be the first to admit that language has never been my forte and have more trouble than most translating my thoughts into meaningful sentences. I've always been very good with abstract ideas, numbers and technical skills and bad with communicating, much to my friends' perpetual frustration. Don't assume that when someone is not as good at one thing, you can apply that to everything.

And lastly don't speak to me of problems in the Quran when all you have read are snippets of it on the websites of your choosing, further augmenting your lack of interest is any source that negates what you quote even if they are deemed equally credible.. There is a whole study which you can't even begin to fathom.

I've read the whole thing, not in one go mind and not in Arabic obviously, but I have been through it all. You're hardly immune from confirmation bias and I'm not as swayed by it as you might think. If it appears that way I might well be being argumentative as your approach to my posts brings that out.

Not all headaches are treated with Aspirin, some are treated with electrophoresis.. are you studied enough and learned enough to know when and to tell the difference? Try to carry that analogy through when discussing with me, or any practicing Muslim their religion or what you conceive to be problems therein!

Understood, but I still don't see the point in your constant posturing as if you have the monopoly on integrity when the basis of your standpoint is faith, not reason.

 

[Whatsthepoint]

You should enroll in a university course such as
http://www.bucknell.edu/x2976.xml
if the study of language so interests you and pose questions to your preceptor:

Which language is most expressive, most complex in terms of parsing and constituent structure , most poetic, most historical etc and see how they answer you?
That is how most people (myself included) learn, by way of formal education inside academia not through google-- there is nothing subjective about it.. There is simply criteria that is met!

all the best

Wouldn't it atke someone who hs studied several languages besides Arabic to answer your question? As far as I am aware you only know English, French. Arabic and probably some medical Latin so what makes you qualified to make judgements about the richness of languages?
that's why I asked you to provide an opinion from someone who is qualified.
Ok at least you decided on some basic criteria though you have no way of knowing which language meets them best, but I'm guessing (merely guessing) ancient greek or Latin would do quite fine. Also several othr languages, depending on how far you want to go with your criteria, which are set extremely wide (grammar) and also poeticity and historicity can be very subjective.

 

[جوري]

"Indeed but not about you.. or are you so vain to think you are the only one who browses a forum?" Would seem to imply you do not post about me or solely for my benefit, so that leaves... others.

This statement has no relevance whatsoever to 'why the hit and run' and yes I don't usually reply with you in mind!

Useful.

linking me to a dictionary does positively nothing if you can't articulate yourself in a 'useful' manner.. there is more to the English language than putting words together!

"...the famed linguist, Prof George Babiniotis (whose dictionary adorns most literate Greeks’ bookshelves) and Irvine University of California who place Cretan as the richest language on the globe."
It was the French center’s 40 researchers who identified Oubykh as the world’s rarest language...
The Caucasian tongue is also “among the richest, if not the richest, language we know in terms of the sounds you have to make to speak it,” Bouquiaux added.
"English is the richest language with the largest vocabulary in the world."
"Hindi is Our Mother language and is the Language of the Nation. It is said that it is the richest Language as far as grammar is concerned."
German is usually considered the richest language. Dr. Lomb, K., Polyglot: How I learn languages p.104

As per my reply to 'whatisthepoint' learning certain criteria takes proper schooling and academia not a google search, thank you for proving my point and it is precisely why I didn't quote third party praise on the matter!

I imagine those people know something on the study of languages.
You mean maybe I should have included an Amazon book review?

See my above reply! and my previous post!

1. You have the shortest memory of anyone I've spoken to. Reread Ansar's interpretation of the claim that you posted.
"if you think this Qur'an is fabricated, then why don't you write your own book and follow that? See if that enjoys the same success as the word of God."

What does that mean? Ansar's opinion and research though profound aren't the only ones that can be brought to the table..again, what is your point?

I don't think all that time as the world's most populous denomination is a bad innings. I would also suggest that if the Quran had been revealed in the modern day it would probably not have found as many adherents.

The Quran wasn't meant to be revealed modern day.. the age or miracles is a done deal!
A question should be posed.. why was this revealed in this particular point in time?
Moses (p) brought miracles a time when magic in Egypt was popular, that has led the soothsayers of the pharaoh to abandon their ways to follow Monotheism in spite of painful torture from the pharaoh, it wouldn't necessarily have worked during the time of Jesus, when "medicine' not magic was popular and his miracles healed lepers amongst others, well beyond what medicine folks at the time could offer, like-wise Prophet Mohamed brought the miracle of language to folks who epitomized their time in poetry and language used to have their poetry hung on the kaaba yet the most articulate of them couldn't bring a chapter like it even (as stated before) the shortest one composed only of three verses, you'll need to understand something on the matter to see why something is useful to its particular point in time and not some other period which exceeded all expectations. Why would a God want this to be revealed to those people and not something else if he is so capable of something else? Something about human psychology and nature should be addressed!
The last 'miracle' which is the Quran unlike others which can not fall short to dead witnesses and has the staying power, given that it is in the form of a book which is transcendent and its challenge still continues un-opposed modern day!

2. There may well be many variants of Christianity now, but it's fair to say Luke and chums should get some credit for them all.

You can give them all the credits you want, it is inconsequential to me or my understanding of religion!

What are you trying to tell me? Am I to understand that coming to this decision without influence lends it some kind of rational credibility?
Obviously not.

Finding God is a solo Journey, your opinion is your own and does not affect me in any form or fashion, my reply was a direct response to yours assuming that 'so long as I am a Muslim' I am unable to ---, when you don't actually know what it took for me to be Muslim. Or what it took anyone else.. further, it isn't really up to you to decide what is rational and what isn't-- your belief in God or lack thereof is a belief just the same, even less rational when employing a universal negative and then dancing around with florid language to justify it!

I would be the first to admit that language has never been my forte and have more trouble than most translating my thoughts into meaningful sentences. I've always been very good with abstract ideas, numbers and technical skills and bad with communicating, much to my friends' perpetual frustration. Don't assume that when someone is not as good at one thing, you can apply that to everything.

I am waiting still to see the one thing you are good at.. and my religion does dictate that every soul is here to fulfill a purpose.. so goog luck!

I've read the whole thing, not in one go mind and not in Arabic obviously, but I have been through it all. You're hardly immune from confirmation bias and I'm not as swayed by it as you might think. If it appears that way I might well be being argumentative as your approach to my posts brings that out.

I don't think you have, and can tell you why in more than one go as incidents arise.. it is the way you are unable to tie things together.. a person who is really well read on the subject can tie things.. you can't and neither can 'whatisthepoint' though he doesn't feign having read it and has this (otherwise admirable) yet annoying habit to my person of hammering everything to death, was still unable to tie points made in suret al-baqara to suret Ar'rahman.. that is just as an example.. but that is how a person can tell!

Understood, but I still don't see the point in your constant posturing as if you have the monopoly on integrity when the basis of your standpoint is faith, not reason.

And where does reason lie in your brand of faith?
My faith is based on logic, save for the parts that should be left to (trust) of the one that made the other 90% components incontestable!

all the best!

 

[Joe98]

Gen 1:14-17 tells us that.....

Isaiah 11:12

Revelation 7:1
Job 38:13

Jeremiah 16:19

Daniel 4:11

If you wish to find fault with Christianity, there is no point quoting from the old testament.

Christians live by the teachings in the new testament. The old testament is bit like a history of what went before.

If you want to faults with the bible, it has to be from the new testament.
-

 

[Azy]

This statement has no relevance whatsoever to 'why the hit and run'

It does. If you still don't get it then I don't know what I can do to make in more clear.

linking me to a dictionary does positively nothing if you can't articulate yourself in a 'useful' manner.. there is more to the English language than putting words together!

You seemed to find trouble understanding a perfectly simple sentence.

As per my reply to 'whatisthepoint' learning certain criteria takes proper schooling and academia not a google search, thank you for proving my point and it is precisely why I didn't quote third party praise on the matter!

I didn't see that coming. You implied that Arabic is undisputedly the richest language as it meets certain criteria. Unless all those quotes are part of a strange and concerted anti-Arabic conspiracy it would appear to at least shed some doubt on that claim.

What does that mean? Ansar's opinion and research though profound aren't the only ones that can be brought to the table..again, what is your point?

You seem to have disassembled my point and answered various parts in a strange order. Ansar's opinion might not be the only one, but it's the only one you referred to, so it's the only one I responded to.

The Quran wasn't..

..really relevant to the point I was trying to make.

my reply was a direct response to yours assuming that 'so long as I am a Muslim' I am unable to ---, when you don't actually know what it took for me to be Muslim.

It's irrelevant what it took, unwavering belief in the supernatural origins of scripture and scientific integrity concerning the examination of that scripture do not go hand in hand.

it isn't really up to you to decide what is rational and what isn't

You do say some odd things, of course I don't decide what is rational.

-- your belief in God or lack thereof is a belief just the same, even less rational when employing a universal negative and then dancing around with florid language to justify it!

If you're talking about faith on the basis of evidence for the consistency of our reality and experience then yeah, but that's not generally what people mean when they say 'belief'.

I don't think you have

Well that doesn't change the fact does it?

it is the way you are unable to tie things together.. a person who is really well read on the subject can tie things..

I wouldn't consider reading it through once in fits and starts as 'well read' and I'm not really surprised I can't tie things together.

My faith is based on logic, save for the parts that should be left to (trust) of the one that made the other 90% components incontestable!

I don't get it, if it's all logical then why have you let me waste all this time on the board arguing against the truth when I could have been easily shown the correct path?

Why not just show me, logically, that God exists and that God is Allah, then the rest of the world and I can have a chance at avoiding the hell-fire.

 

[جوري]

It does. If you still don't get it then I don't know what I can do to make in more clear.

Must be one of those things you, yourself, & Second person pronoun know but is Orphic to the rest of us..

You seemed to find trouble understanding a perfectly simple sentence.

Half of what you write is given to frivolity!

I didn't see that coming. You implied that Arabic is undisputedly the richest language as it meets certain criteria. Unless all those quotes are part of a strange and concerted anti-Arabic conspiracy it would appear to at least shed some doubt on that claim.

Again, there is a criteria which should be met.. when you enroll in formal classes they will teach you what that is...

You seem to have disassembled my point and answered various parts in a strange order. Ansar's opinion might not be the only one, but it's the only one you referred to, so it's the only one I responded to
..really relevant to the point I was trying to make. .

Quoting Ansar was to cement part of my opinion not in lieu of it!

It's irrelevant what it took, unwavering belief in the supernatural origins of scripture and scientific integrity concerning the examination of that scripture do not go hand in hand.

Again, everything to do with the origin of life has a supernatural explanation. There is nothing scientific, least which can be duplicated to that extent that would make what you think or deem 'scientific' any more credible!

You do say some odd things, of course I don't decide what is rational.
If you're talking about faith on the basis of evidence for the consistency of our reality and experience then yeah, but that's not generally what people mean when they say 'belief'.

'Belief' is any cognitive content held as true and where some confidence has been placed.. the definition varies from person to person though the meaning of the word remains the same.

Well that doesn't change the fact does it?

Changes everything.. I don't like wasting people's time, I expect the same courtesy- Do you attend class where you are required to have studied some historical piece, sit there argue about it with your preceptor and when he busts you as not being read, you decide 'well it doesn't change the fact does it?'
Are you kidding me?

I wouldn't consider reading it through once in fits and starts as 'well read'

What does 'I wouldn't consider reading it through once in fits and starts as 'well read'-- mean? or am I supposed to decipher code here with your writing and if/when questioned you decide to hand me a dictionary?

and I'm not really surprised I can't tie things together.

Then why the charade?

I don't get it, if it's all logical then why have you let me waste all this time on the board arguing against the truth when I could have been easily shown the correct path?

You have free will, do with it as you please!
My chosen job here isn't to prove you one way or the other, rather pose questions and point out the flaws in what you (plural) write!

Why not just show me, logically, that God exists and that God is Allah, then the rest of the world and I can have a chance at avoiding the hell-fire.

Pls tell me what would I gain by doing that? Were you yourself able to show anyone logically not just that God doesn't exist but have a viable answer to account for everything in existence and its drive forth, its sentience its form?

I think this verse in the Quran sums it best for me

186) But wouldst thou, perhaps,' torment thyself to death with grief over them if they are not willing to believe in this message ?°
​

1854) THUS, INDEED, have We given in this Qur'an many facets to every kind of lesson [designed] for [the benefit of] mankind.'
However, man is, above all else, always given to contention:
​

I will tell you this much though, if you truly from your heart had a desire to find and seek truth it will find you and you'll find it.. but I think your mind is already made up and there is no room save for scorn and sarcasm
....
Now if you'll excuse me as I have a migraine.. perhaps you can save your wit for tomorrow when (hopefully) I am feeling a little better..

All the best!

 

[Azy]

Again, there is a criteria which should be met.. when you enroll in formal classes they will teach you what that is...

So you're going to make a statement, providing no evidence, contrary to your own rants about substantiation?

Again, everything to do with the origin of life has a supernatural explanation.

That is your own assumption, not derived from any evidence or logic.

Changes everything.. ...you decide 'well it doesn't change the fact does it?' Are you kidding me?

You misunderstand. Your belief that I haven't read something doesn't change the fact that I have.

What does 'I wouldn't consider reading it through once in fits and starts as 'well read'-- mean? or am I supposed to decipher code here with your writing and if/when questioned you decide to hand me a dictionary?

Fits and starts is a very common English phrase meaning roughly 'not all at once'.

You have free will, do with it as you please!

I think you missed the point again. Thus far nobody has shown me a logical reason to think Islam is truth.

Pls tell me what would I gain by doing that?

That warm fuzzy feeling inside that you helped billions of people reach paradise? I don't know, pick something.

Were you yourself able to show anyone logically not just that God doesn't exist

Whatever happened to burden of proof being on the claimant?

but have a viable answer to account for everything in existence and its drive forth, its sentience its form?

Many moons ago, the cause of lightning was unknown and attributed to God's anger. We don't have definite answers for those things but that doesn't mean we should automatically assume we never will or that acceptance of God is the default position. How much has mankind discovered in the last 100 years?

186) But wouldst thou, perhaps,' torment thyself to death with grief over them if they are not willing to believe in this message ?°
​

Is that the Islamic version of "I'm alright Jack"?

but I think your mind is already made up and there is no room save for scorn and sarcasm

My mind is perfectly hospitable to strangers when suitable reasoning is used.

 

[جوري]

So you're going to make a statement, providing no evidence, contrary to your own rants about substantiation?
That is your own assumption, not derived from any evidence or logic.

The only difference is that I am educated on the matter through formal schooling, rather than 'Isn't it in such and such museum' after avowing with fervency that it is 90% true to the original!

You misunderstand. Your belief that I haven't read something doesn't change the fact that I have.

My belief is based on your arguments which are incoherent at best, and at worst seem to plagiarize crap on various websites to a T, telling me that you've not an original thought to name your own to save your dear life!

Fits and starts is a very common English phrase meaning roughly 'not all at once'.

really?
'I wouldn't consider reading it through once in fits and starts as 'well read'-
Not sure that makes it any clearer, perhaps we can get a reader consensus here on meaning?

I think you missed the point again. Thus far nobody has shown me a logical reason to think Islam is truth.

Thus far no one has shown millions of smokers that smoking is hazardous to their health:

amazing ain't it?
It isn't anyone's job to make you 'believe' anything!

That warm fuzzy feeling inside that you helped billions of people reach paradise? I don't know, pick something.

But here I am to tell you and repeatedly, that I don't give a D*** what becomes of you or others like you.. why is that so difficult to comprehend?. Shouldn't your ever brilliant mind assure you, that if I had a desire to convince anyone of anything, I'd start by traveling to their forums-- spreading the word there? Do you think I am on an Islamic forum because I desire to convert a kaffir?

Whatever happened to burden of proof being on the claimant?

Indeed.. go ahead and prove that 'God doesn't exist because--' we are listening!

Many moons ago, the cause of lightning was unknown and attributed to God's anger. We don't have definite answers for those things but that doesn't mean we should automatically assume we never will or that acceptance of God is the default position. How much has mankind discovered in the last 100 years?

A how has always existed, one that man was meant to discover over and over, but you won't have a deep down "wherefore" to anything..
and by that token, no one is asking you to accept the 'default' posotion you are free to create whatever answer that pleases you or await for when science comes with a complete answer for you.. I know too much about science however on a molecular level to give to emotive words of atheists. Plus I have heard the arguments a million times over, just as you are unconvinced with the other point of view should you carry that inference over as to why your position and stance on the matter isn't any more convincing?!.. Further honestly what do you care what other people think or believe? you're almost busting at the seams over what folks desire for a life style... that is just not natural, you should address why you care so much and why you are here..
A person who desires to learn tries on some level to desegregate from his cognitive conservatism to gauge why it is that there are not just millions but billions of adherents and growing from all walks of life, especially at a time when Islam is maligned so.
Since you already have the answer to everything I suggest you take a break, live and let live-- I am not sure at this stage you are able to bring anything new to the table!

Is that the Islamic version of "I'm alright Jack"?

Not at all, it is a Quranic consolation that every soul is held in pledge by its own deed :

74:38) Every human being will be held in pledge for whatever he has wrought –
​

and that I am not nor should be aggrieved by your desire to be an atheist.. as stated prior it is your free will and that is the fork on the road where we part ways!

My mind is perfectly hospitable to strangers when suitable reasoning is used.

Irrelevant!

all the best

 

[Azy]

The only difference is that I am educated on the matter through formal schooling

Then it shouldn't be too hard to back up your statements, or is there one standard for yourself and one for everyone else?

Not sure that makes it any clearer

Try "I have read it 1 time, but not in 1 sitting". Any better?

Indeed.. go ahead and prove that 'God doesn't exist because--' we are listening!

I think this is the problem. You told me your faith was based on logic, but you appear to have based that logic on an assumption without providing any evidence. You have made the implicit assumption that God exists.

gauge why it is that there are not just millions but billions of adherents and growing from all walks of life

I thought we'd covered argumenta ad populum.

Not at all, it is a Quranic consolation that every soul is held in pledge by its own deed :

74:38) Every human being will be held in pledge for whatever he has wrought –
​

and that I am not nor should be aggrieved by your desire to be an atheist.. as stated prior it is your free will and that is the fork on the road where we part ways!

"CALL THOU (all mankind] unto thy Sustainer's path with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and argue with them in the most kindly manner"

 

[جوري]

Then it shouldn't be too hard to back up your statements, or is there one standard for yourself and one for everyone else?

Go ahead and give me the diagnosis to this
using google and surely I'll grant you the same courtesy-- I am not sure why anyone would bother go to school all together if we can all be scholars from a two second search?

Try "I have read it 1 time, but not in 1 sitting". Any better?

Perhaps you are accustomed to substandards?.. I don't like to engage mediocrity!

I think this is the problem. You told me your faith was based on logic, but you appear to have based that logic on an assumption without providing any evidence. You have made the implicit assumption that God exists.

You have made an argument as well based on 'faith', you have faith that God doesn't exist but haven't provided any evidence to his non-existence, You made an argument (if I can call it that) like wise based on assumption. Not only have you not proven that he doesn't exist but you haven't given us any logical reason(s) as to how everything came to be using science.. Do you understand what it means to hold a universal negative? You are not merely one step behind, you are two steps behind!

I thought we'd covered argumenta ad populum.

Correction, I covered it, after your rant about Christianity and its branches!

"CALL THOU (all mankind] unto thy Sustainer's path with wisdom and goodly exhortation, and argue with them in the most kindly manner"

'Call them' doesn't mean put a gun to their head? correct? You've been warned and that is all anyone can do for you!

all the best