Sweden, Iowa, Vermont approve same-sex marriage

Greetings,
Abdullahii said:
the gay black market.....thats california state prison......if you decide to go make sure you tape up a rat clamp thingy near the vunerable area...or you could eat glass so that it becomes a cheese grater down there +o(
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Thanks for that image, Abdullahii - it really elevated the discussion. You've clearly though about the issue a great deal, and come up with a response you feel is sincere and sensible. :rollseyes

Anyone who still thinks homosexuality is a major problem needs more help than I can provide.

Peace
 
Sweden! No one is surprised. :D

Well good luck to them then who get legally married! Does it state something more about this, like can a gay married couple adopt?
 
Same-sex marriage and gay marriage are terms for a legally or socially recognized marriage between two people of the same sex.

The first country to allow same-sex couples to enter into legally recognized marriage was the Netherlands, effective in 2001. Since then, six other countries and five U.S. states have followed suit, though California later revoked the right and has it under judicial review. Proponents of same-sex marriage regard it as a human right to have the benefits of marriage regardless of sexual orientation. Those who oppose same-sex marriage often base their opposition on tradition, religious grounds, parenting concerns, or concerns about unintended consequences of same-sex marriage. Same-sex couples can be civilly united, but not married, in sixteen countries and specific jurisdictions within 5 others. Six countries and one U.S. State recognize legal same-sex marriages from other jurisdictions but do not perform their own. Political and legal debate continues in over two dozen other countries and multiple U.S. states.
The Netherlands, Belgium, Canada, Spain, Norway and Sweden are the only countries where the legal status of same-sex marriage is exactly the same as that of opposite-sex marriage, though South Africa is due to fully harmonize its marriage laws. Nepal's highest court, in November 2008, issued final judgment on matters related to LGBT rights. Based on the court recommendation the government announced its intention to introduce a same-sex marriage bill by 2010.

Proponents also consider these laws restricting marriage to be unconstitutionally overinclusive, as gay and lesbian couples can have children either through natural or artificial means.
 
czgibson said:
Greetings,


Thanks for that image, Abdullahii - it really elevated the discussion. You've clearly though about the issue a great deal, and come up with a response you feel is sincere and sensible. :rollseyes

Anyone who still thinks homosexuality is a major problem needs more help than I can provide.

Peace
Click to expand...

wtp wanted to go to the gay black market sooo i gave him few tips to deter the prisoners
 
Gossamer skye said:
folks everywhere want alot of things,the line is drawn somewhere.. by the 'MAJORITY' that is how a 'democracy' works!
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Of course, almost everywhere it is legal, same sex marriage legislation was intriduced by an elected government, it's also works the other way around, prop 8 in California and several state ballots where marriage was strictly defined between one man and one woman.
I'm not really sure the majority should decide what minorities can do though. If I'm not mistaken the citizens of Switzerland recently decided mosques can pnly be built without minarets.
 
Those who support legalizing same sex relationships have no right to ban relationships of one muslim and his 4 wives, or one mormon and his 10 wives or 2 men and 5 women.
People supporting same sex marriages, what kind of argument you will use to ban the marriage of 40 year old man and 13 year old girl? When we destroy the sacred one man - one woman marriage union, we open the gates to possibilities that might be very sad in future.
For 25 years, when whole western world will legalize gay and lesbian marriages and allow them adopting children, I'm sure that the emancipation of "sexual minorites" won't stop. Children of nowadays gay activists will fight for the rights of other, more extreme suxual minorites. But then I think that, saying it from a believer perspective, GOD will say - "enough" and our post-christian world will be washed down from the Earth.
 
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Whatsthepoint said:
Of course, almost everywhere it is legal, same sex marriage legislation was intriduced by an elected government, it's also works the other way around, prop 8 in California and several state ballots where marriage was strictly defined between one man and one woman.
I'm not really sure the majority should decide what minorities can do though. If I'm not mistaken the citizens of Switzerland recently decided mosques can pnly be built without minarets.
Click to expand...



I am not following as you often compare a base sexual act with architecture or or or.. either way it wouldn't matter a mosque without a minaret as the whole purpose of it is to stand and usher people to prayer if they can't hear the call.. it is aesthetics and nothing more.

The majority of people oppose gay marriages, if they didn't it wouldn't be a constant issue that they push the envelope, as they are viewed as sexual deviants no different from the other forms of sexual deviance.. a marriage to be recognized by a religious body has to be between man and woman, no one really cares what a secular state marriage recognizes .. they can marry and breed with animals for all we care!
 
Amadeus85 said:
Those who support legalizing same sex relationships have no right to ban relationships of one muslim and his 4 wives, or one mormon and his 10 wives or 2 men and 5 women.
People supporting same sex marriages, what kind of argument you will use to ban the marriage of 40 year old man and 13 year old girl? When we destroy the sacred one man - one woman marriage union, we open the gates to possibilities that might be very sad in future.
For 25 years, when whole western world will legalize gay and lesbian marriages and allow them adopting children, I'm sure that the emancipation of "sexual minorites" won't stop. Children of nowadays gay activists will fight for the rights of other, more extreme suxual minorites. But then I think that, saying it from a believer perspective, GOD will say - "enough" and our post-christian world will be washed down from the Earth.
Click to expand...


I find that an unusual analogy at best, for even considering your bible in the matter those figures you come to respect and love Abraham, Solomon, Jacob, David had more than one wife and in some instances even concubines as was the case of David on his death bed!

I am neither condemning nor condoning polygamy, since Islam is the only religion that advises men to marry one and actually came to limit the number of women, men can marry!
Marriage in an of itself imposes a limitation to say simply wondering around and cheating as is the case 50% of western men stats show end up cheating on their wives.. 50% can be considered pigs, or are simply slaves to their biology? you decide!
It's tough to get a handle on how many of us are having affairs, given the inherent secrecy.
  • 22 percent of married men have strayed at least once during their married lives.
  • 14 percent of married women have had affairs at least once during their married lives.
  • Younger people are more likely candidates; in fact, younger women are as likely as younger men to be unfaithful.
  • 70 percent of married women and 54 percent of married men did not know of their spouses' extramarital activity.
  • 5 percent of married men and 3 percent of married women reported having sex with someone other than their spouse in the year1997.
  • 22 percent of men and 14 percent of women admitted to having sexual relations outside their marriage sometime in their past.
  • 90 percent of Americans believe adultery is morally wrong.
  • 50 percent of Americans say President Clinton's adultery makes his moral standard "about the same as the average married man,'' according to a Time-CNN poll.
  • 61 percent of Americans thought adultery should not be a crime in the United states; 35 percent thought it should; 4 percent had no opinion.
  • 17 percent of divorces in the United States are caused by infidelity.
  • [SIZE=-1]Source: Associated Press[/SIZE]
  • Up to 37% of men and 22% of women admit to having affairs. Researchers think the vast majority of the millions of people who visit chat rooms, have multiple "special friends”. Dr. Bob Lanier, askbob.com [SIZE=-1]
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    [/SIZE]
  • Recent studies reveal that 45-55% of married women and 50-60% of married men engage in extramarital sex at some time or another during their relationship (Atwood & Schwartz, 2002 - Journal of Couple & Relationship Therapy)
  • Only 46% of men believe that online affairs are adultery. DivorceMag
  • 80% think it's Ok to talk with a stranger identified as the opposite sex. 75% thinks it's ok to visit an adult site.
  • About 60 percent of men and 40 percent of women will have an affair at some point in some marriage "Monogamy Myth", Therapist Peggy Vaugn
  • About 24 percent of men and 14 percent of women have had sex outside their marriages, according to a Dec. 21, 1998 report in USA Today on a national study by the University of California, San Francisco.
  • Affairs affect one of every 2.7 couples, according to counselor Janis Abrahms Spring, author of After the Affair,as reported by the Washington Post on March 30, 1999. Ten percent of extramarital affairs last one day, 10 percent last more than one day but less than a month, 50 percent last more than a month but less than a year, but 40 percent last two or more years. Few extramarital affairs last more than four years.
  • A lesser known fact is that those who divorce rarely marry the person with whom they are having the affair. For example, Dr. Jan Halper’s study of successful men (executives, entrepreneurs, professionals) found that very few men who have affairs divorce their wife and marry their lovers. Only 3 percent of the 4,100 successful men surveyed eventually married their lovers.
  • Frank Pittman has found that the divorce rate among those who married their lovers was 75 percent. The reasons for the high divorce rate include: intervention of reality, guilt, expectations, a general distrust of marriage, and a distrust of the affairee.
  • One-third of divorce litigation is caused by online affairs. This Is An Internet E-Mergency, The Fortino Group
  • Approximately 70% of time on-line is spent in chat rooms or sending e-mail; of these interactions, the vast majority are romantic in nature. Dr. Michael Adamse, PhD., co-author of Affairs of the Net: The Cybershrinks' Guide to Online Relationships
  • Because of the anonymity, affordability, and accessibility of Internet sexual resources, the computer can accelerate the transition from "at risk" to "addicted," as well as the progression of sex addiction in those with a history of prior sexual compulsivity. Cooper et al Survey
  • 8-10 percent of Internet users become hooked on cybersex. Dr. Bob Lanier, askbob.com [SIZE=-1]
    arrow1-1.gif
    [/SIZE]
  • Spouses who get hooked on Internet porn are a growing complaint among spouses filing for divorce, according to a survey of 350 divorce attorneys. "If there's dissatisfaction in the existing relationship, the Internet is an easy way for people to scratch the itch," said lawyer J. Lindsey Short, Jr., president of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers, which conducted the study.
  • 57% of people have used the Internet to flirt.
  • 38% of people have engaged in explicit online sexual conversation and 50% of people have made phone contact with someone they chatted with online.
  • Evidence proves there is a high correlation between on-line infidelity and subsequent real-time sexual affairs.
  • Evidence supports the existence of disinhibition, accelerated intimacy, and hyper-sexual online behavior that can easily lead to real-time infidelity
  • 31% of people have had an online conversation that has led to real-time sex.
  • It is estimated that 53% of all people will have one or more affairs during their lifetime.
  • Look at the numbers from Playboy Magazine:
  • -2 out of 3 women and 3 out of 4 men admit they have sexual thoughts about co-workers.
  • -86% of men and 81% of women admit they routinely flirt with the opposite sex.
  • -75% of men and 65% of women admit to having sex with people they work with.
  • The fact is that human beings are NOT monogamous by nature. That means they cheat.
  • Experts say that a gut instinct is the most powerful indicator of a cheating lover. Adultery statistics state that 85% of woman who feel their lover is cheating are correct. 50% of men who feel their lover is cheating are right. The first clue is seldom obvious. Typically, it's a "feeling" that something is different.
  • Cheating spouse statistics confirm that 50 and 70 percent of married men (between 38 and 53 million men) have cheated or will cheat on their wives. One study found that 2/3 of the wives (26 to 36 million women) whose husbands were cheating had no idea their husbands were having an affair - largely because they failed to recognize the telltale signs.
  • According to Annette Lawson, author of Adultery, published in 1989 by Basic Books. "The various researchers arrive at a general consensus…suggesting that above one-quarter to about one-half of married women have at least one lover after they are married in any given marriage. Married men probably still stray more often than married women—perhaps from 50 percent to 65 percent by the age of forty." According to Maggie Scarf, author of Intimate Partners, first published in 1987 by Random House, re-issued in 1996 by Ballentine.
  • "Most experts do consider the 'educated guess' that at the present time some 50 to 65 percent of husbands and 45 to 55 percent of wives become extramaritally involved by the age of 40 to be a relatively sound and reasonable one." According to Peggy Vaughan, author of The Monogamy Myth, first published in 1989 by Newmarket Press (third edition published 2003).
  • Conservative infidelity statistics estimate that “60 percent of men and 40 percent of women will have an extramarital affair. These figures are even more significant when we consider the total number of marriages involved, since it's unlikely that all the men and women having affairs happen to be married to each other. If even half of the women having affairs (or 20 percent) are married to men not included in the 60 percent having affairs, then at least one partner will have an affair in approximately 80 percent of all marriages. With this many marriages affected, it's unreasonable to think affairs are due only to the failures and shortcomings of individual husbands or wives."

​
http://www.menstuff.org/issues/byissue/infidelitystats.html

as well women and men cheat for entirely different reasons..
thus, you need to understand why somethings are sanctioned 'religiously' and others aren't -- and given the endless scandals with catholic churches and dioceses, we have come to understand that neither celibacy nor limitation works..



two sins don't nullify each other..

all the best
 
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Gossamer skye said:
I am not following as you often compare a base sexual act with architecture or or or.. either way it wouldn't matter a mosque without a minaret as the whole purpose of it is to stand and usher people to prayer if they can't hear the call.. it is aesthetics and nothing more.

The majority of people oppose gay marriages, if they didn't it wouldn't be a constant issue that they push the envelope, as they are viewed as sexual deviants no different from the other forms of sexual deviance.. a marriage to be recognized by a religious body has to be between man and woman, no one really cares what a secular state marriage recognizes .. they can marry and breed with animals for all we care!
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Well, in Switzerland the public passed a bill that allowed gay couples to enter civil unions.
Apart from the mosque thing, they elected a governent who carried out the campaign using this poster:
bildnavlinksd-1.jpg

So it would seem the swiss public is more fond of gays than immigrants.
They did however reject a bill that would make it harder for foreign workers to get a residence permit I think.
 
Amadeus85 said:
Those who support legalizing same sex relationships have no right to ban relationships of one muslim and his 4 wives, or one mormon and his 10 wives or 2 men and 5 women.
People supporting same sex marriages, what kind of argument you will use to ban the marriage of 40 year old man and 13 year old girl? When we destroy the sacred one man - one woman marriage union, we open the gates to possibilities that might be very sad in future.
For 25 years, when whole western world will legalize gay and lesbian marriages and allow them adopting children, I'm sure that the emancipation of "sexual minorites" won't stop. Children of nowadays gay activists will fight for the rights of other, more extreme suxual minorites. But then I think that, saying it from a believer perspective, GOD will say - "enough" and our post-christian world will be washed down from the Earth.
Click to expand...
I do not think polygamy should be banned, provided anyone can marry anyone regarldess of their gender and so on.
 
Whatsthepoint said:
Well, in Switzerland the public passed a bill that allowed gay couples to enter civil unions.
Apart from the mosque thing, they elected a governent who carried out the campaign using this poster:
bildnavlinksd-1.jpg

So it would seem the swiss public is more fond of gays than immigrants.
They did however reject a bill that would make it harder for foreign workers to get a residence permit I think.
Click to expand...


I am not bothered by what the swiss do.. I think Europe is designed to be homogeneous and are generally not very fond of immigrants..
I am not an immigrant and no one in my family is.. My father came to the U.S on a diplomatic visa not on a boat..
The lowest position held by any member of my family foreign or domestic is in agricultural engineering... thus I don't know personally how I feel about immigrants.. Most 'immigrants' I have encountered here in the U.S were Hispanics or from south America -- some are hard working, some are free loaders.. every society has to look after the well fare of its citizens, but that does apply both ways.. such as in tough economic conditions when the west hits the gulf states for billions, they should as well be as 'understanding' when others come in for a genuine good work/better life opportunity!

all the best
 
Gossamer skye said:
I find that an unusual analogy at best, for even considering your bible in the matter those figures you come to respect and love Abraham, Solomon, Jacob, David had more than one wife and in some instances even concubines as was the case of David on his death bed!

I am neither condemning nor condoning polygamy, since Islam is the only religion that advises men to marry one and actually came to limit the number of women, men can marry!

all the best
Click to expand...

I was talking about the tradition of marrige in the western world. Since Greeks and Romans its one wife and one husband and this was strenghtened then by christianity. For european civilization, one man and one woman is the natural relationship. I see polygamy as something morally more acceptable and more normal definitely than "relationship" of two men or two women. This is not the case. The case is that by legalizing same sex relationships, liberals continue the work of radical communists to destroy the institution of european family and with the smile on their faces they continue to cut the tree branch that we are all sitting. Sometimes we forget that in this world there is real Evil having face and name of Satan and in this battle about definition of marriage between gay activists and Vatican, do I have to mention whose side the gay activists support? The battle between Good and Evil goes on every day on our eyes.
 
Amadeus85 said:
I was talking about the tradition of marrige in the western world. Since Greeks and Romans its one wife and one husband and this was strenghtened then by christianity.
Click to expand...

You must not be aware of the not so holy days of the 'Holy Roman Empire' -- Monogamy isn't strengthened by Christianity, I assure you if Jesus had hung around long enough and had money to foster a marriage he would have married. Other Christian sects (mainly Protestantism) don't agree that celibacy is normal.

For european civilization, one man and one woman is the natural relationship. I see polygamy as something morally more acceptable and more normal definitely than "relationship" of two men or two women.
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I agree, but for some men (backed by stats) more than one is 'normal' I see marriage as if anything a deterrent from cheating.. in other words if they desire more than one woman, at least they'll do the honorable thing by two women, giving the first the right to choose divorce and the 2nd on the lowest common denominator an identity to her children which are usually fathered in wedlock.

This is not the case. The case is that by legalizing same sex relationships, liberals continue the work of radical communists to destroy the institution of european family and with the smile on their faces they continue to cut the tree branch that we are all sitting. Sometimes we forget that in this world there is real Evil having face and name of Satan and in this battle about definition of marriage between gay activists and Vatican, do I have to mention whose side the gay activists support? The battle between Good and Evil goes on every day on our eyes.
Click to expand...
Agree with that too.. except that I have known of a few conservative closet homos, so I am not sure I can blame it fully on the libbys..I despise the act as I do legalizing it, but if I had to choose I'd rather they do it where I don't have to know of it...

all the best
 

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