i need to learn the lingo (arabic first, then urdu) and i need a few grand for the move (about 10% there).
check the blog and you'll understand more.
Pakistan approves sharia law in Swat valley
- Thread starter nebula
- Start date
- Replies 120
- Views 15K
British Wholesales - Certified Wholesale Linen & Towels | Halal Food Gastronomy | PHP 8.4 patch for vBulletin 4.2.5
i need to learn the lingo (arabic first, then urdu) and i need a few grand for the move (about 10% there).
check the blog and you'll understand more.
you are perhaps the rudest frenchman i have known and that is saying something.
they are from the deobandi school mostly so although the rulings they follow are within the allowable differences it is more a difference of style, of mood, of following the more harsh ruling within each allowable difference.
saying that, i would still love to live there as having some shariah you agree with is better than none at all.
cern,
talk to any pakistani, it is almost impossible to get anything through the courts there unless you pay bribes to get your case heard, land is stolen and the land registry changed, this has happened to so many people i know in the uk it is shocking.
there is no justice, this has been the case for decades, hardly can be the talibans fault can it?
also, who told you islam means peace? islam means submission to Allah, when it comes to non-muslims we are peaceful with those who are peaceful with us, but in our own lands things are different.
if people are doing things wrong we stop them, that is part of the shariah the state needs to bring about, others have mentioned some of the open sins and evils on the streets of pakistan so we need to put a stop to that.
regarding 'muslims' who dont support the shariah, they are disbelievers and have negated their imaan. there are differences in interpretation but anyone who says they dont want shariah is a kaffir.
i dont want to offend pakistanis but when it comes to international affairs some of them, especially their newspapers columnists and other informers of public opinion are quite often delusional and paranoid, so they see everything that happens as plots and plans against them.
so this is why you get the mumbai attacks, pakistani nationals and most pakistanis still telling you it is an indian plot or the israelis did it.
i am not saying the indians, israelis, iranians etc are not out to get pakistan, just that this theory of the taliban being against shariah would be funny if so many people didnt take it seriously.
so the ones who are fighting for shariah are actually secretly against it and working for the kuffar and the ones who are openly allied to the kuffar and are fighting against shariah are the ones who are correct... quite insane reasoning but if you read pakistani newspapers or speak to pakistanis even in the west this is their reasoning and ideas.
could i ask why you think the taliban are not bringing in shariah? i agree that sometimes gangsters and wannabees do bad things in the name of the taliban but the movement itself, why do you feel they are not bringing in shariah? can you point to anything which would suggest they are not to back up that point of view? do you have any concrete proof or just feelings from pakistanis?
i find that almost always it can be shown that the taliban have acted correctly or it can be shown they've acted with the best intention with instances are brought up, or the person objecting has not understand the islamic reasoning behind their action so label it unislamic, and the few times this is not the case are not enough for me to not support them as overall they good, overall they are fighting for Allah and what right do i living in the comfort of the west have to judge them for a few mistakes when i have not been through the circumstances they have.
Thinker
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 928
- Reaction score
- 107
Do you have some Islamic text which supports that claim?
they are kuffar because they deny Allah's right as sole legislater, as ordered in the Quran and if a muslim denies one ayat then they are a kaffir.
it is like saying they or others are right and Allah is wrong, craziness (at least from a believers point of view)
Uthman
LI News Service
- Messages
- 5,513
- Reaction score
- 1,216
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
Do you have the specific ayah for this akhee? Not that I don't believe you, but it is useful knowledge.
Thinker
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 928
- Reaction score
- 107
Hmmm - I can now understand why you want to live with the taliban!!!
Whatsthepoint
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 3,705
- Reaction score
- 367
How hard can it be to learn 2 languages and besides you only need to know the basics and leanr the rest there and take out a loan.
the only real problem is getting a lgal permit to live there, a resident visa or something.
But anyway, hijra is a hijra not a horse.
And He associates in His rule no one
18:62
Judgment belongs only to Allah
12:40
“And it is known by necessity in the Deen of the Muslims and by the agreement of all the Muslims that whoever follows a Sharee'ah other than the Sharee'ah of Muhammad then he is a Kaafir and it is like the Kufr of the one who believes in some of the Book and disbelieves in some of the Book. Al-Fataawa, Vol. 28/ 524”
-Sheikh ul Islam ibn Taymiyyah
Last edited:
i agree normally it easy for people, but you are talking to someone who was in the top classes for every subject but spanish... where i was in the bottom class.
i agree the legal permit thing is a problem, but if you can show you have savings, or an income then it isnt in most places.
Uthman
LI News Service
- Messages
- 5,513
- Reaction score
- 1,216
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
And He associates in His rule no one
18:62
Judgment belongs only to Allah
12:40
“And it is known by necessity in the Deen of the Muslims and by the agreement of all the Muslims that whoever follows a Sharee'ah other than the Sharee'ah of Muhammad then he is a Kaafir and it is like the Kufr of the one who believes in some of the Book and disbelieves in some of the Book. Al-Fataawa, Vol. 28/ 524”
-Sheikh ul Islam ibn Taymiyyah
JazakAllahu Khayran. That makes it crystal clear.
Woodrow
May Allah have mercy on him رحمة الله عليه
- Messages
- 17,217
- Reaction score
- 4,224
- Gender
- Male
- Religion
- Islam
i dont want to offend pakistanis but when it comes to international affairs some of them, especially their newspapers columnists and other informers of public opinion are quite often delusional and paranoid, so they see everything that happens as plots and plans against them.
so this is why you get the mumbai attacks, pakistani nationals and most pakistanis still telling you it is an indian plot or the israelis did it.
i am not saying the indians, israelis, iranians etc are not out to get pakistan, just that this theory of the taliban being against shariah would be funny if so many people didnt take it seriously.
so the ones who are fighting for shariah are actually secretly against it and working for the kuffar and the ones who are openly allied to the kuffar and are fighting against shariah are the ones who are correct... quite insane reasoning but if you read pakistani newspapers or speak to pakistanis even in the west this is their reasoning and ideas.
could i ask why you think the taliban are not bringing in shariah? i agree that sometimes gangsters and wannabees do bad things in the name of the taliban but the movement itself, why do you feel they are not bringing in shariah? can you point to anything which would suggest they are not to back up that point of view? do you have any concrete proof or just feelings from pakistanis?
i find that almost always it can be shown that the taliban have acted correctly or it can be shown they've acted with the best intention with instances are brought up, or the person objecting has not understand the islamic reasoning behind their action so label it unislamic, and the few times this is not the case are not enough for me to not support them as overall they good, overall they are fighting for Allah and what right do i living in the comfort of the west have to judge them for a few mistakes when i have not been through the circumstances they have.
In spite of my posts often being contrary to your, I do hope you know I have the highest respect for your willingness to stand up for what you believe and your sincerity in pursuing what you see as truth.
I do know that the people we have in the US from Pakistan have been received in the US differently then they have been in the UK. Nearly all of the people from Pakistan here were highly successful people in Pakistan and left primarily because of the past governments. They are quite successful here also, most being Doctors or business owners, along with many Imams that have established Masjids here.
My son-in-law has a very successful export business and imports many Pakistani goods here for his US store. Mostly things like traditional Pakistan food and clothing. He returns to Pakistan for a least one month each year. He desires to live under Sharia as do most of the Pakistanis here also do. But they see little chance of Sharia being implemented in Pakistan. In the US at least for civil law sharia law is permitted in most states,provided all parties agree. That is not true for all States, but Texas is one of the states that does permit it for civil cases.
Also local communities do have the right to establish local laws for their own communities. Which is done in the larger Pakistan communities. Local government in the US often differs from State or Federal law and as long as it does not interfere with with any national issues it is permitted. Other examples: The Amish and Mennonites live under their own laws in their own communities. I currently live on a Native American Reservation. The Reservations are governed under Tribal Law and not US law. the rez I live on is under the sioux Nation and the reservation is seen as being the "Lakota Sioux Nation" yet it is still in the USA and the people hold all of the rights of any US citizen. so it can not be said that Shariah can not be implimented in the USA. I believe their will be Shariah local governments in the USA before Shariah is a reality in most of today's predominantly Muslim countries.
The Taliban movement as it actually was for many years, is very honorable and very good. Many of the Pakistanis, I know, believe the Taliban in Pakistan are Taliban in name only and are not acting for Islam but for political purposes. what they see is:
1. the only people they fight are Muslims
2. They are striking fear into the rural Muslims, leading them to become more supportive of foreign intervention in Pakistan affairs
3. None of the known Taliban in the SWAT region are either Pakistani or Afghanistani, but seem to be foreigners.
Getting to your the last question.
that is all I have to go by. It is virtually impossible to get any unbiased word about Pakistan. There used to be an Urdu TV channal, from Karachi I used to watch in Austin, but that also can not be said to be free from bias.
I know your view of the Taliban in Pakistan is quite the opposite of what I see. Perhaps you can share some of your sources that lead your opinion to be the opposite of what I get told.
In spite of my posts often being contrary to your, I do hope you know I have the highest respect for your willingness to stand up for what you believe and your sincerity in pursuing what you see as truth.
I do know that the people we have in the US from Pakistan have been received in the US differently then they have been in the UK. Nearly all of the people from Pakistan here were highly successful people in Pakistan and left primarily because of the past governments. They are quite successful here also, most being Doctors or business owners, along with many Imams that have established Masjids here.
My son-in-law has a very successful export business and imports many Pakistani goods here for his US store. Mostly things like traditional Pakistan food and clothing. He returns to Pakistan for a least one month each year. He desires to live under Sharia as do most of the Pakistanis here also do. But they see little chance of Sharia being implemented in Pakistan. In the US at least for civil law sharia law is permitted in most states,provided all parties agree. That is not true for all States, but Texas is one of the states that does permit it for civil cases.
Also local communities do have the right to establish local laws for their own communities. Which is done in the larger Pakistan communities. Local government in the US often differs from State or Federal law and as long as it does not interfere with with any national issues it is permitted. Other examples: The Amish and Mennonites live under their own laws in their own communities. I currently live on a Native American Reservation. The Reservations are governed under Tribal Law and not US law. the rez I live on is under the sioux Nation and the reservation is seen as being the "Lakota Sioux Nation" yet it is still in the USA and the people hold all of the rights of any US citizen. so it can not be said that Shariah can not be implimented in the USA. I believe their will be Shariah local governments in the USA before Shariah is a reality in most of today's predominantly Muslim countries.
The Taliban movement as it actually was for many years, is very honorable and very good. Many of the Pakistanis, I know, believe the Taliban in Pakistan are Taliban in name only and are not acting for Islam but for political purposes. what they see is:
1. the only people they fight are Muslims
2. They are striking fear into the rural Muslims, leading them to become more supportive of foreign intervention in Pakistan affairs
3. None of the known Taliban in the SWAT region are either Pakistani or Afghanistani, but seem to be foreigners.
Getting to your the last question. that is all I have to go by. It is virtually impossible to get any unbiased word about Pakistan. There used to be an Urdu TV channal, from Karachi I used to watch in Austin, but that also can not be said to be free from bias.
I know your view of the Taliban in Pakistan is quite the opposite of what I see. Perhaps you can share some of your sources that lead your opinion to be the opposite of what I get told.
if i deal with your last point first...
most of my friends in the city i used to live in are pakistani or afghan pathans, the masjid i attended mostly and where i said my shahadah was predominately pathan though with about 40-50% other pakistani, arab, somali and revert (in that order) with a few omanis, bengalis, nigerians and others thrown into the mix.
even though it was very pathan in character and so extremely friendly to everyone but before anyone things i have been blinded by pathan nationalism into supporting the taliban, the imam is gujarati and the assistant imam is bengali, the muazzin somali, head of dawah was a revert so hardly nationalistic.
so most of my info is simular to your's in that it is formed from the opinions of others that they have told me about themselves, their own personal experiences and the experiences of their families back in pakistan and afghanistan.
but i also have gone out of my way to inform myself from other sources, speak to those who travel there themselves rather than rely on news sources from the kuffar or secular muslims,
so i have met many people who have lived and travelled under the taliban rule, people who i would trust with my life without a worry.
they are also in many cases like me wanting to make hijrah, some have already gone, some are in the process of making preparations so they keep themselves informed and up to date like i do and we all share information not in passing but actively seeking it and passing it on.
so for a non-pathan, no urdu speaker i think i am about as informed as it is possible to be about the situation.
now dealing with some of your other points...
a muslim who opposes the shariah, fights for a government who opposes the shariah or takes their side is by definition a kaffir as he has done kufr known by necessity.
the fataawah of ibn taymiyyah and many of the ulema of the past are clear on this matter when dealing with the tartars, who also claimed islam, he ruled that their blood, their families and property were all halal for the mujahideen to take, as well as this he made the same ruling for all those who supported them.
this is as hardly true, most against even the kuffar media are saying the people are broadly supportive of their efforts. smacks of pakistani secular elite and their paranoia again to be honest.
because to them the true muslims are the ones who are really and openly siding with the kuffar, and those who oppose them must be in some secret pact with the kuffar.
yes the pakistani taliban are different, they have a much greater % of tribesman and less of ulema and students of knowledge and so i would agree they can tend to come across a little more OTT and make more mistakes.
but they still respect mullah muhammad omar as amir ul mumineen, follow his instructions and orders so are effectly a different branch of the same organisation.
their goal is to establish islam in the tribal areas and afghanistan but with no intention of stopping there, also taking over the whole of pakistan and other areas also.
so they are not seperate, they are the same. they include foreign fighters, but locals also, indeed predominately locals as even the kuffar news sources report.
there are uzbeks, arabs, chinese, even western reverts in their ranks. but wouldnt it be more worrying if they didnt? wouldnt that make them more nationalistic and less an islamic movement?
were the armies of muhammad (saws) less islamic for having bilal and salman al farsi (ra) as well as many others in their ranks?
finally,
now saying you can have shariah in the US is not really true, what you can have is some aspects of family law in the shariah, but you cant have the whole package.
in just the same way as those who say you can practice islam in the west are not truthful as you cannot perform many acts which are fard nor can you avoid all the matters which are haram.
Whatsthepoint
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 3,705
- Reaction score
- 367
How long have you been studying arabic/Urdu?
about a year and a half, but my teacher ended up starting the course again due to lack of attendence from others but feel am starting to get somewhere and have a grasp of basic grammar.
Whatsthepoint
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 3,705
- Reaction score
- 367
Basics is all you need, you'll be fluent in a heartbeat once you get there especially if English isn't a second language and you're forced to do with what you got.
I think you're good to go.
thanks for your kind thoughts, well im still in need of about 9k sterling travel and settling money, so have a wip round and tell them its a sure way of getting rid on an islamic radical from the uk.
Whatsthepoint
Account Disabled
- Messages
- 3,705
- Reaction score
- 367
:bump1: