Just time for one post today as I am in the middle of a lecture tour.
Any luck selling folks the man/God fatuity this fine day?
But a 5,000 word post might be comprehensive but it hardly useful as a discussion tools is it.
Isn't it amazing how many words and theologians you need to explain something that should otherwise be so simple? Perhaps because it is all so counter-intuitive?
I will later go through it all and see what can be gleaned but if its all of the nature of the cut out I have shown below its going to be a very sterile one as on the one hand it states what MUST be illusion (there cannot be real gates) and the other what is obvious
I love this dynamo of a hyperbole
"The first Book came down from one gate according to one harf, but the Qur'an came down from seven gates according to seven ahruf:
What seven gates are those?
prohibiting and commanding, lawful and unlawful, clear and ambiguous, and parables. So, allow what it makes lawful, proscribe what it makes unlawful, do what it commands you to do, forbid what it prohibits, be warned by its parables, act on its clear passages, trust in its ambiguous passages." And they said: "We believe in it; it is all from our Lord."
Is that the reductionist approach? I can be game with that.. but what never have you to quote "we believe in it, it is from our lord' when you are recruiting indoctrinated morons with such phrases as this:
are unwise in how they share their faith." But even if it takes some stretching of the truth, he adds, it would be wrong to ignore the call to share the Word. "That is what the Bible teaches,
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2002/05/stealth-crusade
makes your man/God is a sort of devious god no?
Secondly, I think we have gone off topic and as I am a new members I cannot create a new thread so I suggest we create one called "is the Qu'ran to be trusted" or some such question. I can start the discussion off by offering Thomas Paine's unassailable argument:
Go ahead share all of what you know of Thomas Paine's 'Unassailable argument' Let's see how good an argument it makes for your self immolating man/God!
Let us suppose that something has been revealed to a certain person (e.g. prophet Mohammed), and not revealed to any other person, so it is a revelation only to that person. It follows it is hearsay to every other person, and consequently they are not obliged and have no reason to believe it or give it any credence.
lol.. a conclusion that has no relevance to whatsoever from the premise of which it is drawn..I am not going to discuss the Quran here, but do tell how Christianity avoids what you have just proposed with the self-immolating man/god? centuries of heresy from doubting thomases to a born again Saul to a self-professed god chosen Jon of Arc to apostles whom Jesus didn't even meet up with.. are you kidding me or what? Funny man!
Lastly, might I suggest we have another thread where we accept the Qu'ranic challenge that nothing can be written that is better. Perhaps test is not a good word and the notion of what 'better' means is vague anyway. But we can share not just verses but meaning and that to me seem more valuable than just arguing.
The criteria for what is better is already outlined.
Come with a book of guidance
1-completely transcendent as to fit every century and every people
2- Covers every aspect of life from politics, economics, social structure, beliefs, laws of inheritance
3-Written in a poetic manner that is incomparable, that anyone who listens anywhere can distinguish it from any other text, undeniably divine
[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7Vpi_qZSGc[/MEDIA]
[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsk58tjsuaM[/MEDIA]
Any chapter:
[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IMFLu2TzFU[/MEDIA]
Doesn't matter who the reciter..
have verses in a particular chapter be revealed 23 yrs apart in different cities, and still follow in style, context, rhyme, meaning.
4- appeal to all man kind and not have any distinction between men or women.. I call your attention of course to such verses from your bible
Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Is.3:12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them.
1 Cor.11:3 "But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."
1 Cor.14:34-36 "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."
Eph.5:22-24 "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing."
Col.3:18 "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord."
1 Tim.2:11-15 "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing
1 Pet.3:1 "Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands."
Just a few things in the Quran that set its standards so far up.. if you can meet it on all levels then by all means amuse us!
To keep it within limits I suggest that no quotation from the Qu'ran or anywhere plus adding its meaning is more than 300 words. So if you like the idea and create the thread it would work like this:
Threads of the nature have already been created, do visit our refutation section, if you have anything to add to a thread already created then bring it forth!
Someone takes a quotation, (a Qu'ranic one any other) copies it into the Board with proper references and then explains what it means and why it is useful in our day to day lives. Suppose it's a Qu'ranic quote then someone else is now challenged to find a better one on roughly the same subject area and explain why it is better or at least as good.
hilarious, see above.. Do you know how difficult it is to bring a quote that reads like a poem be millenniums old and have it be about events happened, or yet to come or that of everyday life.. better folks than you have tried.. Dr. Gary Miller spent 20 yrs of his life doing just that trying to refute the Quran and in the end he became Muslim..
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.islambasics.com%2Findex.php%3Fact%3Ddownload%26BID%3D47&ei=rAbuSaPCO9q9twf0xK3ADw&rct=j&q=dr+gary+miller+the+amazing+quran&usg=AFQjCNEl9eOuyvPoSbdz23-jPWAbawiDWw
Alternatively, I or anyone could suggest a quotation from the Bible or anywhere and explain its meaning and argue that it is better etc etc and someone can find a Qu'ranic one that is better.
There is no comparison between the Quran and the bible.. they are not even on the same level.. the only thing the bibles can be compared to if at all are hadiths, except even hadiths have a chain of isnad and an entire science to subject them to scrutiny not at all the case with the bible, given the previous page where chapters are at complete odds with one another!
One final rule is that we treat every entry with respect at all times and not try to ridicule what has been said.
I think the Bibles stand a testament to ridicule on their own accord with no comparative religion needed to do so!
I know there are endless issues about context although no one knows what exactly a context means but that can be part of your explanation. For example,
(Quote) Jesus said in Matthew 22 starting at verse 35. And one of their number, a lawyer, asked Him a question to test Him. 36 Teacher, which kind of commandment is great and important in the Law? 37. And He replied to him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38. This is the great and first commandment. 39. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbour as [you do] yourself. 40. These two commandments sum up and upon them depend all the Law and the Prophets.
That is nice.. and very rudimentary.. I think Gandhi came up with better!
(Context)As you can see the context here is that teachers of the law were asking Jesus tricky questions, trying to trap Him into making a mistake of some kind.
Hilarious, well considering that your God ****ed the earth that he allegedly created for not bearing him fruit, and was ineffectual at best at saving himself from being crucified after he forsake himself one wonders how ineffectual he'll be with the rest of humanity?
(Meaning) Here Jesus is making plain that no amount of laws can make a man or women good and holy because unless your heart is set on God and you love him and your neighbor then nothing else will really be right in your life. Is it not obvious that because our love of God is sincere then that will cause us to really love and care for our fellow human beings no matter who they are then the world would be a far better place. (207 words) [/COLOR]
Great dear, now go love thy neighbor by waging more crusades as is currently the case against Afghanistan, Chechnya, Bosnia, Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine, soon to be Iran and Syria.. show the world that Jesus love :rollseyes
all the best
did you see my post on the crusades?
