Pakistan approves sharia law in Swat valley

[AbuSalahudeen]

I must have missed that. Could you please repost the link?



You need to clarify that statement.

With Afghanistan I would say no. We removed the Taliban that oppressed people and harbored terrorists and allowed the government to return. For me the war, replacement of power and response to a terrorist attack upon my country that also effected many other countries was just. If we were to go back into the area and replace the current government then I would agree with you.

With Iraq the answer is yes and no. For me this war should have never happened without the backing of the world (UN). I felt the war was not just and was part of my ex-presidents personal agenda. But Saddam was a cruel dictator that oppressed, tortured and killed anyone that stood in his way. Because of this Saddam and his government should have been replaced. How and when will always be something that shall be debated.

The Taliban are not freedom fighters. They are terrorists that will oppress, torture and kill anyone that stand in their way. Do I think all countries should be democratic? No, but there are ways to handle things and the way they conduct business makes them no authority to impose any form of law, Islamic or not.

The funny thing is Saddam at his WORST was supported by the American Government and was infact supported both financially and with weapons. When Saddam used Chemical Weapons (WMDs) on the Kurds of the North, American totally ignored it and kept open good ties with Saddam, when Saddam used Chemical Weapons on the Iranians during the war between the two nations America still kept good open ties with Saddam. These real displays of WMDs at there worst had zero effect on the United States Government, it was only when Saddam invaded Kuwait, which threatened the American Government steady supply of Oil did they act and cause missary to the people of Iraq. And those sanctions placed on Iraq just made Saddam even stronger and multiplied the suffering of the Iraq people and caused the death of Millions of Iraqs.

 

[Cern]

The funny thing is Saddam at his WORST was supported by the American Government and was infact supported both financially and with weapons. When Saddam used Chemical Weapons (WMDs) on the Kurds of the North, American totally ignored it and kept open good ties with Saddam, when Saddam used Chemical Weapons on the Iranians during the war between the two nations America still kept good open ties with Saddam. These real displays of WMDs at there worst had zero effect on the United States Government, it was only when Saddam invaded Kuwait, which threatened the American Government steady supply of Oil did they act and cause missary to the people of Iraq. And those sanctions placed on Iraq just made Saddam even stronger and multiplied the suffering of the Iraq people and caused the death of Millions of Iraqs.

It is easy to just blame the US when neighboring countries also turned a blind eye and let it happen. Keep in mind the first gulf war had a large amount of world support behind it. I am not doubting it wasn't about oil or greed. We should have removed him from power then when we were first their instead of attacking years later in an unjust war. But this thread isn't about US policy but that of Shariah law and the Taliban implementation of it.

 

[Cern]

Sorry but these are just assumptions, Shariah is beautiful if implemented correctly according to the authenic text of Islam. Many a time Shariah is confused with bad cultural practises like force marriages, honour killings (murderings) and the list goes on.

Unfortunately there is not one Muslim country that agrees to how it should be implemented. Plus it's bad practices you mentioned and recent new articles doesn't honestly win me over as a non-Muslim or even if I became one. To me its punishment system and attitude towards women is very barbaric and oppressive (depending the country) for modern time.

If you want to see real tears, 100s of thousands of deaths and total misery look at those in Iraq who have tasted the Democracy the American Government has brought, and ask the Palestian people what happened when Democratic elections took place and the Government voted in by them cost them the blood of 1000's of innocent country men and women.

Again this thread isn't about US policy. The Pakistani people made their choice as they saw fit and must live with the outcome. If the Pakistani people wish to no longer be democratic and support a Shariah law system than that is their choice but it shouldn't be because of violence. It's funny watching some of these responses. Very few are condemning the Taliban's actions when they bring chaos to an area as they justify it "bringing order." Seems more people just want to ignore it as long as Shariah law in any form is implemented and turn the tables around towards old news (US War). I would think as Muslims you wouldn't want this type of violence, oppression and system of strict law to be implemented by terrorists but would rather work peacefully to implement a true form of Shariah law and change the worlds narrow image towards Islam and Shariah law.

 

[Dawud_uk]

I must have missed that. Could you please repost the link?



You need to clarify that statement.

With Afghanistan I would say no. We removed the Taliban that oppressed people and harbored terrorists and allowed the government to return. For me the war, replacement of power and response to a terrorist attack upon my country that also effected many other countries was just. If we were to go back into the area and replace the current government then I would agree with you.

With Iraq the answer is yes and no. For me this war should have never happened without the backing of the world (UN). I felt the war was not just and was part of my ex-presidents personal agenda. But Saddam was a cruel dictator that oppressed, tortured and killed anyone that stood in his way. Because of this Saddam and his government should have been replaced. How and when will always be something that shall be debated.

The Taliban are not freedom fighters. They are terrorists that will oppress, torture and kill anyone that stand in their way. Do I think all countries should be democratic? No, but there are ways to handle things and the way they conduct business makes them no authority to impose any form of law, Islamic or not.

you are ignorant of the situation, the government who replaced the taliban are not the previous afghan government, as bad as they were that would have been preferable to what we have now.

the western government attacks and kills many times more, tortures, murders all those who stand in their way and have done long before 9/11 so that is hardly an excuse.

i'll be honest with you though, this is not a popularity contest, it doesnt matter if the people want shariah or democracy, it is not a debate a muslim can have as this is a muslim land so it is either they accept shariah willingly or the mujahideen will fight.

 

[Dawud_uk]

I traced back and I found your link.

There is nothing in that report that doesn't surprise me. You have a controversial news agency going into an area controlled by the Taliban and reporting about them. Do you honestly think they or even local residents will speak bad about them when they are toting guns and wearing masks? I am sure the locals will support any form of law when no law is present. I am sure the locals want Shariah law. But I doubt the locals will enjoy what will be imposed upon them once the Taliban settle in and impose their form of Shariah law.

i agree al-jazeera are contraversial, they are secularists so i dont trust them myself just the same as i dont trust the bbc, cnn, fox or any other secularist network.

but to throw this back at you, do you think any resident would dare speak bad of the west to a western news agency in other parts of the world whilst their troops are there with their guns and tanks and planes and drones? so according to your own logic all that support for the western interventions the neo-cons go on about cannot be relied upon to be true can it?

 

[Dawud_uk]

Unfortunately there is not one Muslim country that agrees to how it should be implemented. Plus it's bad practices you mentioned and recent new articles doesn't honestly win me over as a non-Muslim or even if I became one. To me its punishment system and attitude towards women is very barbaric and oppressive (depending the country) for modern time.



Again this thread isn't about US policy. The Pakistani people made their choice as they saw fit and must live with the outcome. If the Pakistani people wish to no longer be democratic and support a Shariah law system than that is their choice but it shouldn't be because of violence. It's funny watching some of these responses. Very few are condemning the Taliban's actions when they bring chaos to an area as they justify it "bringing order." Seems more people just want to ignore it as long as Shariah law in any form is implemented and turn the tables around towards old news (US War). I would think as Muslims you wouldn't want this type of violence, oppression and system of strict law to be implemented by terrorists but would rather work peacefully to implement a true form of Shariah law and change the worlds narrow image towards Islam and Shariah law.

it is a war, there is inevitably some lives lost, i wouldnt ask you to judge the results now but in a few years time when things have settled down.

btw, large numbers of those killed were not killed by the taliban but by the army who bombed whole towns and villages for supporting the taliban, causing the refugee crisis, it is this war the people flee from not the actual taliban themselves.

 

[SirZubair]

Insha'allah ALL goes well, and it will eventually, through Allah (swt)'s Mercy.

 

[Cern]

but to throw this back at you, do you think any resident would dare speak bad of the west to a western news agency in other parts of the world whilst their troops are there with their guns and tanks and planes and drones? so according to your own logic all that support for the western interventions the neo-cons go on about cannot be relied upon to be true can it?

Which Western country are you using as an example? If we us the US then yes. One can stand in the face of the army and report what ever they want. It is call Freedom of the Press and a Constitution right as long as no laws are broken.

 

[Dawud_uk]

Which Western country are you using as an example? If we us the US then yes. One can stand in the face of the army and report what ever they want. It is call Freedom of the Press and a Constitution right as long as no laws are broken.

sorry, nearly fell of my chair reading that one. you know even when i was a non-muslim i knew the independence of the press to be laughable.

but what i was referring to were the people the west is occupying, do you really think your media gives you the full picture? do you really feel the people there are going to tell the western media exactly what it thinks of their nation when the media will go away and western soldiers remain?

 

[Cern]

do you really think your media gives you the full picture?

Nope, that is why I use multiple news sources. I tend to subscribe from various parts of the world so I can gain a better perspective of a news event. I will agree that each news agency has their own agendas and will only report in their designated perspective for their targeted audience.

do you really feel the people there are going to tell the western media exactly what it thinks of their nation when the media will go away and western soldiers remain?

Yes, but that is my opinion. But again you are not giving much of an example to which Western country and what they are occupying. Do I think all Western counties share the same practices? No.

 

[Dawud_uk]

Nope, that is why I use multiple news sources. I tend to subscribe from various parts of the world so I can gain a better perspective of a news event. I will agree that each news agency has their own agendas and will only report in their designated perspective for their targeted audience.



Yes, but that is my opinion. But again you are not giving much of an example to which Western country and what they are occupying. Do I think all Western counties share the same practices? No.

no i agree, not all western countries are seen in the same way, when i travelled to france when younger it struck me as odd that resturants would display the french, the british and canadian flags but rarely the US one.

it was due to the way french soldiers behaved towards the local women, in the few months after the normandy landings there were over 5000 reports of rape made against US servicemen, and as we know rape is massively under reported, this figure only came out recently when a historian was examining declassified files.

but to get back to the point, do you think a CNN or BBC reporter in kabul is going to get a true picture of the views of the afghan people when the soldiers are there as their bodyguards and will still be there when the reporter is long gone?

 

[Foxhole]

i'll be honest with you though, this is not a popularity contest, it doesnt matter if the people want shariah or democracy, it is not a debate a muslim can have as this is a muslim land so it is either they accept shariah willingly or the mujahideen will fight.

Thank you for the quote. I get so sick of people denying that Muslims feel this way.

 

[Dawud_uk]

Thank you for the quote. I get so sick of people denying that Muslims feel this way.

part of islam is telling the truth, i will never ever hide the truth from people because calling to Allah based on a lie doesnt work, only leads people to become confused later.

if you are honest with people, tell them upfront what is true and what is a lie and they respect that honesty, they might not like the message but without that honesty and respect you cannot have a good discussion that will lead somewhere productive or meaningful.

 

[wth1257]

sorry, nearly fell of my chair reading that one. you know even when i was a non-muslim i knew the independence of the press to be laughable.

but what i was referring to were the people the west is occupying, do you really think your media gives you the full picture? do you really feel the people there are going to tell the western media exactly what it thinks of their nation when the media will go away and western soldiers remain?

you live in the UK. The United States has much sronger press freedom laws. For example the Pentagon Papers. Now granted the press often functions in a propagandistic role but the institutional protections are there.

 

[Dawud_uk]

you live in the UK. The United States has much sronger press freedom laws. For example the Pentagon Papers. Now granted the press often functions in a propagandistic role but the institutional protections are there.

the ones who own the newspapers are in with the same crowd as the ones who run everything else, that is true in every country and it is foolish to pretend otherwise.

 

[wth1257]

the ones who own the newspapers are in with the same crowd as the ones who run everything else, that is true in every country and it is foolish to pretend otherwise.

DemocracyNow? Noam Chomsky?

The News was never neutral, but in the United States at least the idea that the news was supposed to be impartial is a 20th century phenomena. Now even in the corporate media there is greater diversity emergind. Most owners of news stations don't have an agenda, at least not one that runs afoul of buisness. The corporate media pushed Bush and his wars after 9/11 because to do otherwise would cost them viewers and bring popular wrath down upon them. However the media is still free from government control for the most part. The corporate media isin't all that's out there. DemocracyNow still sends out a daily show. When Seymour Hersh broke the abu ghraib story the government could ask the media to not publish the stories, but they could not force them to refrain from publishing them. Just because we have a bad press does not mean we do not have a free press. And the bad press is not the totality of American press.

 

[Dawud_uk]

DemocracyNow? Noam Chomsky?

The News was never neutral, but in the United States at least the idea that the news was supposed to be impartial is a 20th century phenomena. Now even in the corporate media there is greater diversity emergind. Most owners of news stations don't have an agenda, at least not one that runs afoul of buisness. The corporate media pushed Bush and his wars after 9/11 because to do otherwise would cost them viewers and bring popular wrath down upon them. However the media is still free from government control for the most part. The corporate media isin't all that's out there. DemocracyNow still sends out a daily show. When Seymour Hersh broke the abu ghraib story the government could ask the media to not publish the stories, but they could not force them to refrain from publishing them. Just because we have a bad press does not mean we do not have a free press. And the bad press is not the totality of American press.

i agree it is not the totality, but it is the bit that the vast majority use and rely upon for telling them what is going on.

 

[wth1257]

i agree it is not the totality, but it is the bit that the vast majority use and rely upon for telling them what is going on.

Unfortunatly that is quite true.

One good thing out of the competition amongst the major corporate news networks is that they start to expose each other. Like when Fox and MSNBC deconstruct the others propagandistic tactics. Unfortunatly few Americans watch both Fox and MSNBC or apply that information to the larger media context.

 

[Dawud_uk]

Unfortunatly that is quite true.

One good thing out of the competition amongst the major corporate news networks is that they start to expose each other. Like when Fox and MSNBC deconstruct the others propagandistic tactics. Unfortunatly few Americans watch both Fox and MSNBC or apply that information to the larger media context.

hence why every morning i will read the headlines in the bbc, daily telegraph, guardian and independent.

if you want to find the truth you need to look at it from all different angles, i am not completely blind on this issue.

 

[wth1257]

hence why every morning i will read the headlines in the bbc, daily telegraph, guardian and independent.

if you want to find the truth you need to look at it from all different angles, i am not completely blind on this issue.

I was not trying to suggust you were, just making a general observation.