Has a Happy Person Ever Become Atheist?

[Snowflake]

Do atheists really think creation just happened by chance?

A piece of flesh 'just' evolved into an auto-focusing lens for you to see with?

Every single part of your body that works in harmoney within itslef ans its environment came into existence because of some undesigned undeliberate occurence?

The Earth became the perfect climate for all its living things to survive in? And the perfect environment for them to disintergrate in?

The sun just happened? The moon just happened? Air just happened? A perfect ecological system just happened? To top it off the Earth sustained itself in perfect harmony within Universe for billions of years? All the conditions necessary for life just happened?

Within your mind you think you think logically and act upon that logic yet at times even with your thinking brain human logic is flawed. Yet you think a perfect Creation came into existence without the intelligence of a Higher Being? Can you create something and sustain it without 'thinking'?


You accept government, education, health, business, and legal systems require logical thinking to run smoothly. You accept they are sustained by strict rules and regulations without which they'd become corrupted. Yet you believe there is no one behind your creation and the laws that allow you to survive? Laws by which the Earth has survived with its perfect living conditions for you? Laws by which the Earth exists in harmony within the Universe. The whole vast Creation just happened? Perfection and order just happened? What you don't get is that even if you believe nature is responsible for everything then you have to ask yourself nature makes sense, it has reasons. And reasons don't happen by chance. There is purpose behind a reason.


Nature gave you the limbs, organs, senses to survive on earth. It gave human beings, plants and animals the ability to adapt to their environment. From the tinest organism to the largest planet, it gave everything the perfect conditions for them to exist in. Even the staunchest of atheists cannot deny nature.

But despite your acceptence of nature your thinking is limited. If you believe in nature, you know nature itself is nothing but a set of laws. Laws do not just happen but are created for a purpose. Although it's impossible for the human mind to comprehend and understand the complexity of these Laws, you can get some idea by just imagining that the very same law 'nature' governs the tiniest cell to the whole Universe.

And yet you believe that 'nature' just happened? You can't deny that nature doesnt have a reason, a task, a responsibility. Yet you don't see for something to have a reason there is 'thinking' behind it. Nature is staring at you in the face. If it were possible, and you could stare nature in the eye, you wouldn't be able to tell it, it just happened. If you did, you'd be admitting that YOU are nothing as if the laws that govern your existence are nothing but chance, then how can you have any value? Flukes have no value right? You're equal to lower life forms. You're just a product of chance. There is no reason for your existence except being a part of the food chain. That is how you have defined yourself!

Do ask yourself, are you that worthless that other than that you have no reason to be here? A reason beyond what you currently comprehend?

 

[burdenofbeing]

Personally, I can easily contemplate everything you have said. They all makes sense from an atheist perspective. These are really old arguments btw, and almost everything had already been said by both sides.

It's like an equation where the result is x^2=4 and thus x can be either -2 or 2.

That said, as a muslim, do you think there will EVER be evident proof that we are created?

 

[Joe98]

Do you believe we are all children of Adam and Eve or the whole monkey theory?

Both options are wrong.


The correct option is the third option - evolution.

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[Joe98]

Do atheists really think creation just happened by chance?

Only 1 planet in 10 billion known planets can sustain life.

The odds of the thing happening is 1 in 10 billion - and the thing happened.

If any god made the earth he would have made other planets with life so they could all worship him.

And then he would be so busy visiting them all he would have no time to visit the earth to give us annual report cards...............

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[BoredAgnostic]

I'm not happy with my current state of nonbelief. I think some theists tend to have a really narrow scope of vision..it's like...take a step back...and you have a multitude of different religions claiming their superiority and trueness and their religious adherents are passionate believers...so it's like you're being pulled in every direction...then not only that, but all the stories that don't seem plausible but you're expected to believe. I mean it just boggles my mind that theists think atheists/agnostics/nonbelievers would rather burn in some type of fiery torment or whatever punishment for a indeterminate length of time, then submit to their God(s)...I mean I really don't understand that.

 

[Tony]

I would flip this completely on its head.

Happy people don't need Gods.

Its the people who go through hard times, death of a family member, tragic event, etc that tend to need to reach out for the comforts of religion. Can't accept your father died? Tell yourself "he's in a better place now". Afraid of death or having a tough life? Tell yourself the next life will be so much nicer. Afraid of the world around you? Tell yourself God is in control and is looking out for you.

I respectfully disagree, I find keeping my covenant with Allah most difficult when going through a hard time, however it is very comforting to know that children such as those murdered in Gaza will be in the highest heaven. I think people of all emotional states etc can be religious or not and that belief in God is a much deeper need than a crutch on which to lean. I have read that people who own pets do so to make up for a flawed personality trait, who knows. Peace

 

[BoredAgnostic]

Do atheists really think creation just happened by chance?

My answer to that is I just don't know. And lets say some higher power set the Universe in motion..does that necessarily mean it was the God as described in your specific scripture? Well...being a Muslim your answer would probably be yes? Ask a Hindu, Shintoist, Christian, Pagan, etc and their answer would most likely be yes as well...
About purpose...right now I find purpose in the relative things that give meaning to my life...if after this short life..it all ends...then oh well? Nothing you can do about. I don't see much point/purpose in worshiping a God for all of eternity, but if that's something I would have to do to avoid being tortured in some Hellfire, then I'd do it in a heartbeat.

 

[Sahabiyaat]

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134280779-atman-project-ken-wilber.html#post1125206

See above my post on the Atman project, and even go read up on it.


Anybody who does not believe in God,cannot be happy.He only believes he is, according to Ken Wilber, which suprisingly reflects exactly what Islam says.

Man is in constant search of God,he is afraid of death, so he kills others in order to survive.Man is in need of God, and subconciously seeks God in everything, whether doing good or bad.He tries to find God, or rather the attributes of God, in everything, in money, in power, in fame, he even calls himself God! (as some new age spiritualitues propogate),in a vain attempt to satisfy his inherent thirst to be at one with the 'ultimate reality' (God), or as wilber calls him 'Atman'.He buys lots of things to comfort himself, but really he is trying to comfort his suffering soul, he is using substitue gratifications, to reach God, but seeing as they are substitues, they fail him, and being the stupid man he is, he hoards more and more substitues,each one fails to please him, until ofcourse he uses his brain and realises there is nothing greater than God.


Anything and everything you do, whether it be a devout follower, or an atheist who decided one sunny day on a hill that there is no God, you ARE searching for God.

 

[BoredAgnostic]

http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134280779-atman-project-ken-wilber.html#post1125206

See above my post on the Atman project, and even go read up on it.


Anybody who does not believe in God,cannot be happy.He only believes he is, according to Ken Wilber, which suprisingly reflects exactly what Islam says.

Man is in constant search of God,he is afraid of death, so he kills others in order to survive.Man is in need of God, and subconciously seeks God in everything, whether doing good or bad.He tries to find God, or rather the attributes of God, in everything, in money, in power, in fame, he even calls himself God! (as some new age spiritualitues propogate),in a vain attempt to satisfy his inherent thirst to be at one with the 'ultimate reality' (God), or as wilber calls him 'Atman'.He buys lots of things to comfort himself, but really he is trying to comfort his suffering soul, he is using substitue gratifications, to reach God, but seeing as they are substitues, they fail him, and being the stupid man he is, he hoards more and more substitues,each one fails to please him, until ofcourse he uses his brain and realises there is nothing greater than God.


Anything and everything you do, whether it be a devout follower, or an atheist who decided one sunny day on a hill that there is no God, you ARE searching for God.

It's not rocket science to know that a vast majority of people are going to wonder and reflect on how we got here and our purpose in this life. We usually fear the unknown, and crave for more then what we have-whether it is material possessions, our life span, knowledge, power etc. In any case that statement by Mr. Wilber could be easily flipped around.
What about all the unhappy believers out there? It must be, in my opinion, pretty miserable to believe that there are going to massive amounts of people, including possible close family and friends, doomed to hellfire.

 

[أبو سليمان عمر]

well to be honest i will not be a friend with a non believer i will respect them and be kind to them (IN HOPE THE WILL COME TO THE TRUTH) but get close to them or to love them is impossible to me and family as well i cant love a brother sister or even my mother if she or he is a rejector of the truth or enemies who deny GOD so how can i love WHAT im saying is how can i love God and them AT SAME TIME this is hypocrisy now i said i would care for them how do you care about someone by calling them to the right way you know what kind of love is this if i know that those beloved family members are doing bad and will go to Hell while i am keeping silent without making any efforts to save them by guiding them to the right way? but i can try to help them save them but if they are insisting not to follow the right way then they will pay for their choice i will not feel bad or have mercy on them but i will be happy why you ask because i tried and i will get my reward inshallah and inshallah i have except the hellfire Hope you understand
I ONLY LOVE FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH CARE FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH GIVE AND WITH HOLD FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH EVERYTHING I DO INSHALLAH WILL BE FOR THE SAKE OF ALLAH

 

[Sahabiyaat]

It's not rocket science to know that a vast majority of people are going to wonder and reflect on how we got here and our purpose in this life.

yes, thats you searching for God.

We usually fear the unknown, and crave for more then what we have-whether it is material possessions, our life span, knowledge, power etc.

searching for God.

In any case that statement by Mr. Wilber could be easily flipped around

.

oh really, u r a clever thing arent you

What about all the unhappy believers out there?

if you dont believe in God, you cannot be truly happy.If you do and are still unhappy, this unhappiness is not the same as the latter. The believers unhappiness and the disbelievers unhappiness are two different things.

It must be, in my opinion, pretty miserable to believe that there are going to massive amounts of people, including possible close family and friends, doomed to hellfire

You have been informed of what is to come.you have chosen to deny it.simple. I know,its pretty miserable, but only if you dont do something about it.

 

[burdenofbeing]

the most depressing thing about believing, especially in Islam, is that it is a lot of responsibility.
the limited world life as a seed to an infinite afterlife is something super heavy.

 

[memories]

When you live into the world you can if you want ignore the existence of god, whatever the religion is, religion was created by man as a way of awnsering there fear on the unknown, but amidst the things man added to every religion, one thing is certain, the existence of god.when you read the bible or coran or whatever you need to read between the lines, not take it to the first lvl as a child,such as : _why dosent god come down here_::
so put not to much egs in the religion basket, instead, pivilege your relation with god, and remember, violence is not the way god wants for his creatures, that is what i think.

 

[Gator]

Came across this on youtube. A Christian missionary in South America lives with a tribe that has no creation myth. Found it interesting and thought of this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr3q6Cid1po

 

[AntiKarateKid]

Came across this on youtube. A Christian missionary in South America lives with a tribe that has no creation myth. Found it interesting and thought of this thread.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr3q6Cid1po

Who is to say they didn't have it once, a long time ago, but abandoned it. Many tribes there don't have a very long memory into the past. Usually around 12 generations backwards.

This tribe seems to be the exception and not the rule.

 

[Gator]

Who is to say they didn't have it once, a long time ago, but abandoned it. Many tribes there don't have a very long memory into the past. Usually around 12 generations backwards.

Maybe, doesn't say. Its just mentioned that they don't now.

This tribe seems to be the exception and not the rule.

Yeah, I was surprised too. I was expecting some kind of primitive story or something.

 

[memories]

this quote expresses my thoughts:
I cannot imagine a God who rewards and punishes the objects of his creation, whose purposes are modeled after our own -- a God, in short, who is but a reflection of human frailty. Neither can I believe that the individual survives the death of his body, although feeble souls harbor such thoughts through fear or ridiculous egotisms.
(Albert Einstein, Obituary in New York Times, 19 April 1955)

 

[memories]

and this one about the first lvl at wich ppl can take god :
I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts. I am satisfied with the mystery of the eternity of life and with the awareness and a glimpse of the marvelous structure of the existing world, together with the devoted striving to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the Reason that manifests itself in nature. (Albert Einstein, The World as I See It)

 

[Sahabiyaat]

the most depressing thing about believing, especially in Islam, is that it is a lot of responsibility.
the limited world life as a seed to an infinite afterlife is something super heavy.

yup,thats bcuz silly old man took on the responsibility when even the heavens and earth refused to bear the burden

 

[Hamayun]

Great debate.

But Brother Umar I would like to say I think AoP is not interested in your Dawah. I think you may be wasting your breath.