Atheist looking to understand Islam

Hey.

1)Some Messengers and Prophets of God, and even righteous followers were kings but they were just, so they will be in the high parts of paradise. Wealth is a blessing from Allah which can be used to get closer to Allah, or it can be abused and wasted in sin which can lead to punishment.

2) Allah chose to create humans because He can do whatever He wills, and why not?

3) Allah never punishes a people until He sends a Messenger with undeniable evidences. If the people follow, and obey - He gives them more good. If they reject, then they are liable for punishment because they are saying God and His messenger has lied and are showing ingratitude to God.
 
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Just wanted to input something concerning the "Big Bang" in the Qu'ran. The verses in this book contain no actual specific details, and only the the earth and heaven was join, and then that God separated the two. While in fact, if you are to accept the Big Bang Theory, you would know that the earth was formed about 9 billion years after the Big Bang.
 
:sl:

In my opinion the best answer comes from a hadith qudsi:
"I was a hidden treasure. I wanted to be known and created the creation"
We are in fact sentient creature v 3.0, and sentient with free will v 2.0 according to islam.
When quoting hadeeth, it is important to reference them to avoid using weak hadeeth. Is there any reference for the above?
 
Just wanted to input something concerning the "Big Bang" in the Qu'ran. The verses in this book contain no actual specific details, and only the the earth and heaven was join, and then that God separated the two. While in fact, if you are to accept the Big Bang Theory, you would know that the earth was formed about 9 billion years after the Big Bang.

:sl:
Can you expand on your theory?
 
Hi,

This sounds a little arrogant to me. If God (Allah) is perfect, surely he does not need to create lesser beings, i.e. people, to prove that he exists, and to be worshipped and thus feel mighty.



Again, it seems like God (Allah) needs to prove himself and his creations, of his greatness. Surely, a perfect God wouldn't need to satisfy his ego - or even have an ego in the first place?

When I asked a Muslim friend why God needed to create people to put them in Heaven and Hell, her answer was that it is in his being to "Create" and therefore he needs to manifest that in "Creation". Again, this is an unsatisfactory answer for me, which only points to the ego of God.



This is exactly where I stumble to understand.

My interpretation regarding this hadith is as follows:
The creation, mainly is because there exist the potential for
such beings. Their best ones are those who can improve, to an extend that
they can surpass the fully obedient creatures with no will (angels ).

I have also read that in Hell, according to the Quran (please correct me if I am wrong), the majority of people in Hell will be the rich. I assume that most of the rich are well-educated. So, is it fair that someone is well-educated and able to think logically rejects God and thus goes to Hell - versus an uneducated man who never learnt to question what he is taught about God? I find that the circumstance you are born in makes it unfair that that should decide your fate in Heaven or Hell. Besides, can God (Allah) seriously put, say, an African who lives in the middle of a desert who has never heard of Islam in to Hell? What about someone like Mother Teresa? Does she go into the "best" level of Hell, just because she didn't submit to the ego of Allah by accepting him, though she has done SO MUCH good in the world, compared to some Muslims?

This again is not an easy thing to comprehend. For example, riches people
proportion in hell could be more than the poor, not that all rich went to hell.
Another understanding could be a literal one. That the rich is referred to
those who consider themselves self sufficient.

I must say though, thank you for everyone's temperate and kind replies. I am glad to be able have a civilized discussion here. Most of the time, atheists are just blasted off for being 'ignorant' and a 'waste of time' in most religion forums.

Please speak your heart.

I must say that I am not ANTI any religion, I just fail to understand many of their doctrines. The only religion I have ever managed to come across that made most sense to me has been Islam, but still, this big huge stumbling block remains.

May Allah guide us all, inshallah.
 
Hello everyone,

I am an atheist who has been reading a lot about the Abrahamic religions. Islam has interested me the most, as I have read how scientific discoveries of recent times (e.g. Big Bang) have been mentioned in the Quran thousands of years ago.

However, in my quest to understand Islam further, there is a major stumbling block I have come across. I hope fellow forumers here can help me understand:

1. Does individual freedom of will exist, according to Islam?
2. If God (Allah) is all-knowing, would he not be aware that some of his creations would enter Hell in the afterlife? (If he does not know, he cannot be all-knowing)
3. If God (Allah) is all-compassionate, would he not want to not create these certain individuals as he would not want anyone to suffer a terrible eternity in Hell?

Basically, I have a problem with a God that is all-important, egoistic and cruel.

My question is meant to be respectful. I mean no offense. I genuinely want to understand. I hope someone gives me an answer to this :)

Thank you.

Salaam to all brothers and sisters,

Sheikh Ahmad Kutty, a senior lecturer and Islamic scholar at the Islamic Institute of Toronto, Ontario, Canada, states:

“The fact that all things are already decreed and pre-determined by Allah does not take away from men and women their freedom to choose, for that itself is part of the divine will.

No one can use the excuse of pre-determination for acting irresponsibly. Everyone knows quite well that he has a choice to do certain things, while he has no choice to do certain other things. No one therefore should use the excuse of divine will to justify some evil deed he has committed, for deep inside of him, he knew he had a choice to do it or not to do it.

Allah will punish us only if we have been given the choice. The Qur’an clearly teaches us that we humans are accountable only for such actions that we have control over, and that we would certainly not be accountable for those over which we did not have any control whatsoever.”

Elaborating more on the question of man’s free will, Sheikh Kutty adds:

“It is important that we form a sound notion about this issue, in order to avoid any confusion or misgivings.

The issue you have raised is commonly known as the doctrine of qadaa’ (Divine Decree) and qadar (pre-determination). This issue in so far as it is related to man’s freedom to choose has been a perennial issue that has been contentious in all world religions. The Qur’an provides us the foundations for a balanced approach to this issue. It balances our belief in the divine pre-determination with man’s will and freedom to choose and create his own destiny.

Essentially, the Qur’anic position states that while Allah has decreed all things, and that His Decree is at once all-wise and impeccable, human beings have been granted freedom to choose. The freedom granted to humans, however, does not contradict Allah’s Will or Decree, as it itself is a part of Allah’s Will, since man would not have been able to choose if not for Allah’s Will.

Islam teaches us that Allah is the Creator and Sustainer of this enormous universe and everything it contains in its infinite diversity and multiplicity. He is the Lord of them all, All-Wise, All-Powerful, All-Knowing, and All-Aware. Allah has decreed all things in due proportion, balance and harmony. Allah’s creation is immaculately perfect, and there is no discrepancy or disharmony existing in the universe. Almighty Allah says: “(Blessed is He) Who has created seven heavens in tiers. You cannot see any disharmony in the All-Merciful’s creation; look again. Can you see any rift? Then look again, and yet again, your sight will return to you, vanquished and weak.” (Al-Mulk: 3-4)

Stated differently, the Divine Decree or pre-determination is part of the all-embracing knowledge, wisdom, and power of Allah as the Creator. It means that Allah’s Will is supreme, and that Allah is fully in charge of His creation. It teaches us that there is essentially one supreme Will operative in the universe, namely the supreme Will of Allah.

This is on the one hand. On the other hand, we are also taught that Allah, in accordance with His supreme Will, has appointed man as His vicegerent on earth. In His wisdom, Allah has bestowed on man intelligence, moral conscience and revelation. Allah has bestowed on him these resources in order for him to exercise freely between what is good and bad. Man is rewarded or punished based on such choices he has made.

Thus, the fact that Allah’s Decree is supreme does not contradict the fact that man has been given choice and freedom. But human freedom is not unlimited; it works within the all pervasive Will of Allah. Man’s choice is granted to him by Allah; man cannot choose without Allah’s Will; in so far he exercises his will, he does so by Allah’s Will. “But you cannot will unless Allah wills; Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.” (Al-Insan: 30).

Let us list a few Qur’anic verses to further illuminate this concept:

“Say: ‘Truth is from your Lord’. Now whosoever will, may believe, and whosoever will, may disbelieve.” (Al-Kahf: 29). “If it had been your Lord’s will, all who are in the earth would have believed. Will you, then, force the people to become believers?” (Yunus: 99).

The above verses clearly establish the fact that human beings have the freedom to choose. So the belief in pre-determination is not opposed to man’s freedom to choose or act in the universe.

It was because of the balanced understanding concerning Divine Will and human choice that the early Muslims were the most active and dynamic in their approach to taking action to improve themselves and the society around them. Their belief in qadaa’ and qadar, instead of making them passive and complacent, acted as a powerful impetus for change. They believed that nothing in the universe could stop them if they believed in Allah and their own power to realize what is beneficial. The Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) said: ‘Always entertain positive and beneficial thoughts, and seek the help of Allah in accomplishing your tasks, and never feel helpless or impotent. If, in spite of your best efforts, something does not work out the way you had planned, then simply say: that was Allah’s Will; He does what He wills. But never say to yourself: I wish I had done this or that; if it had been so, it would have been different. For such thoughts (are not constructive at all and) only open the door for Satan to act!’”

Ref: www.islamonline.net
 

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