Somali pirates vow revenge.

Well, it sounds like it is common ordinary business that have violate Somalian waters and could be tried, either in Somalia, in the country where they do business, or in the World Court. But it would be the action of the Somalian government to do this, not some thugs who have proclaimed themselves sheriff of the high seas.

Now, maybe, that is not doable. Maybe the lack of a functioning government in Somalia prevents them from seeking redress. If that is so, then it seems to me that these people who are so willing to go on the high seas in the name of seeking justice have their violence pointed in the wrong direction. If they were really concerned about the Somalian people, they would be opposing the war lords of their own country who effectively prevent the government from functioning. The Somalian government would be in a much better position than some rogue pirates to demand action be taken by the international community. The pirates will be seen for just what they are, pirates and nothing more. They are not coast guard by any stretch of the imagination, thus far the only thing they have shown a propensity to protect is the lining of their own pockets, and they don't seem to care who they attack to line it. A real coast guard goes after only those who are violating their coast; I hardly think that these aid ships fit that description. That the pirates don't seem to care tells me all I need to know about their true character.

i think we all at this point understand that piracy is a crime along with illegal dumping and fishing but that isn't the issue in totality.
Somalia at this point in time is known as failed nation, the people of somalia have been complaining for a long time and nobody chose to listen to them until certain nations started losing millions to somali pirates.
is anything being done at this point to eradicate illegal dumping in fishing which caused pirating? no, instead these nations ordered patrols to escort ships and to take out these pirates in somali waters.
the funny thing is that i as a somali will probably be the most objective somali you meet on this issue. the majority of somalis see these men as heroes and they don't call them pirates they call them coast guards.

if you can find a way for illegal dumping and fishing (which caused piracy) and piracy to be eradicated do tell me, i'll be sure to pass it on. until than it's a free for all, wrong and right doesn't govern reality.

peace
 
i think we all at this point understand that piracy is a crime along with illegal dumping and fishing but that isn't the issue in totality.
Somalia at this point in time is known as failed nation, the people of somalia have been complaining for a long time and nobody chose to listen to them until certain nations started losing millions to somali pirates.
is anything being done at this point to eradicate illegal dumping in fishing which caused pirating? no, instead these nations ordered patrols to escort ships and to take out these pirates in somali waters.
the funny thing is that i as a somali will probably be the most objective somali you meet on this issue. the majority of somalis see these men as heroes and they don't call them pirates they call them coast guards.

if you can find a way for illegal dumping and fishing (which caused piracy) and piracy to be eradicated do tell me, i'll be sure to pass it on. until than it's a free for all, wrong and right doesn't govern reality.

peace

Being a Somali national hero is all very nice. As these people are regarded as heroes and Coast Guards by the Somali people, then they should be doing their duty and going after the illegal fishermen or the illegal dumpers that are laying waste to the Somali nation. Pursuing ships that are not involved with illegal fishing or dumping, then holding their crews for ransom is nothing but piracy.

Once the heroic Somali Coast Guard begins actually guarding the Somali coast from the illegal fishermen and dumpers, then the rest of the world will awaken from it's confusion and agree that they are heroes, not pirates. Meanwhile, it should come as no surprise that they will be the targets of other nation's naval forces as they protect international shipping on the high seas from the piracy of the would be Heroic Somali Coast Guard.
 
Being a Somali national hero is all very nice. As these people are regarded as heroes and Coast Guards by the Somali people, then they should be doing their duty and going after the illegal fishermen or the illegal dumpers that are laying waste to the Somali nation. Pursuing ships that are not involved with illegal fishing or dumping, then holding their crews for ransom is nothing but piracy.

Once the heroic Somali Coast Guard begins actually guarding the Somali coast from the illegal fishermen and dumpers, then the rest of the world will awaken from it's confusion and agree that they are heroes, not pirates. Meanwhile, it should come as no surprise that they will be the targets of other nation's naval forces as they protect international shipping on the high seas from the piracy of the would be Heroic Somali Coast Guard.

truly ignorance is bliss, i'll repeat this for like the third time since you probably don't have access to google.
again right After the collapse of the somali government foreign boats illegally fishing and dumping in Somali waters were spotted regularly, the somali fisherman and coastal people's livelihoods were threatened they complained and they complained but than again like most impoverished african nations that have nothing to offer they were ignored and so they chose to take up arms to defend themselves. this in turn turned to piracy and yes later on greed played a part in it because why fish when you can make millions stealing.
it's funny how only when the worlds supply of oil was threatened, did people start to take notice of what was going on. now everyone is wondering how this piracy came to be such a big issue ignoring the fact that it was going for almost 2 decades.
now the very perpretators of illegal dumping and fishing are ordering patrols of the somali coast and refusing to take into account their part in the piracy even starting, but than a again such is the nature of imperialists.
every action has as a reaction, illegal dumping and fishing by the international community caused pirating.
so once the the heroic western world and the heroic navy take into account that they actions caused by their heroic citizens were what caused piracy than piracy will be here to stay.
 
truly ignorance is bliss, i'll repeat this for like the third time since you probably don't have access to google.
again right After the collapse of the somali government foreign boats illegally fishing and dumping in Somali waters were spotted regularly, the somali fisherman and coastal people's livelihoods were threatened they complained and they complained but than again like most impoverished african nations that have nothing to offer they were ignored and so they chose to take up arms to defend themselves. this in turn turned to piracy and yes later on greed played a part in it because why fish when you can make millions stealing.
it's funny how only when the worlds supply of oil was threatened, did people start to take notice of what was going on. now everyone is wondering how this piracy came to be such a big issue ignoring the fact that it was going for almost 2 decades.
now the very perpretators of illegal dumping and fishing are ordering patrols of the somali coast and refusing to take into account their part in the piracy even starting, but than a again such is the nature of imperialists.
every action has as a reaction, illegal dumping and fishing by the international community caused pirating.
so once the the heroic western world and the heroic navy take into account that they actions caused by their heroic citizens were what caused piracy than piracy will be here to stay.

Lisa, in my ignorance I nevertheless appreciate the plight of the people of Somalia. My point, which you need not Google, is that there is a disconnect when you describe the people who are attacking and hijacking ships on the high seas as anything but pirates, regardless of the reasons that they resorted to their actions.

If they are to be regarded as heroic, or as a Somali Coast Guard, then they would need to be guarding the Somali coast and stopping the illegal fishing or dumping that you claim that they are reacting to. The fact remains that they attack ships and hold crews hostage that are neither fishing or dumping waste in Somali waters.

As you reminded us, every action indeed does have a reaction. Just as you claim these Somalis were moved to react to their plight by attacking ships and crews on the high seas, the nations whose ships are being attacked are reacting by having their navies escort these ships to protect them from attack.

My final point, then, is that you should not be surprised when the Somalis, whom you regard as heroes but who are in fact engaged in acts of piracy, are blown out of the water. The problems that drove them to react are not addressed or solved, and the tragedy that is Somalia continues.
 
Lisa, in my ignorance I nevertheless appreciate the plight of the people of Somalia. My point, which you need not Google, is that there is a disconnect when you describe the people who are attacking and hijacking ships on the high seas as anything but pirates, regardless of the reasons that they resorted to their actions.
joedawun my point is that piracy is a crime but there were actions that lead up to piracy, in my previous posts i acknowledged that what they pirates were doing was wrong and that's why i call them pirates. my point is this situation is not one sided and condemnation against piracy without taking into account the reasons why it even began is wrong and very biased.

If they are to be regarded as heroic, or as a Somali Coast Guard, then they would need to be guarding the Somali coast and stopping the illegal fishing or dumping that you claim that they are reacting to. The fact remains that they attack ships and hold crews hostage that are neither fishing or dumping waste in Somali waters.

Their actions in the beginning started off as heroic, it later evolved into something different with local warlords getting involved. the pirates attack the ships of countries they believe are perpretrators of illegal dumping and fishing whether those specific ships are actually carrying out the illegal dumping and fishing at that point in time does not matter to them. that's wrong but than again so are the actions by those specific nations that have caused the deaths of 100's of somali and the damage to the somali coast. they've opened a pandora's box. piracy didn't just pop up out of nowhere something caused it.and the world didn't choose to be moral about their actions so why should they?

As you reminded us, every action indeed does have a reaction. Just as you claim these Somalis were moved to react to their plight by attacking ships and crews on the high seas, the nations whose ships are being attacked are reacting by having their navies escort these ships to protect them from attack.
and i guess the pirates will continues to attack their ships because in their own words "they have nothing to lose".

My final point, then, is that you should not be surprised when the Somalis, whom you regard as heroes but who are in fact engaged in acts of piracy, are blown out of the water.
this point confirms your ignorance, first and foremost Somalia is a nation of millions. piracy neither defines somalis neither is piracy commited by all somalis. and do point out to me were i said they were heroes, my words were that the majority of somalis see these men as heroes and they do.

lol at the "blown out of the water". blow them out of the water after you steal their fish and poison their waters.amazing.but than again such is the nature of imperialists so i wasn't expecting anything else. you can shoot at them all you want it wont change a thing somalis have been shot for the past 20 years.


The problems that drove them to react are not addressed or solved, and the tragedy that is Somalia continues.
the problems that drove somalis to piracy were not being addressed to begin with. Piracy is criminal and should be condemned. But the International community must also address illegal fishing, and dumping of toxic wastes in Somalia’s waters. For piracy to be eradicated the root causes of pirating need to be taken into account and then and only then will the piracy end.
if the international community continues to commit their crimes than the somali pirates can continue on with theirs too and more power to them
 
truly ignorance is bliss, i'll repeat this for like the third time since you probably don't have access to google.
again right After the collapse of the somali government foreign boats illegally fishing and dumping in Somali waters were spotted regularly, the somali fisherman and coastal people's livelihoods were threatened they complained and they complained but than again like most impoverished african nations that have nothing to offer they were ignored and so they chose to take up arms to defend themselves. this in turn turned to piracy and yes later on greed played a part in it because why fish when you can make millions stealing.
"Ignorance is bliss." You are right. And you are right that much of the rest of the world was living in bliss ignoring the issues that were being experienced by people in Somalia. That was wrong. I can see how that led to people acting as they did. And again, if it had just been against the illegal dumpers then two things are true I would have probably stayed ignorant, and if I had been aware of it, I probably would have sided with those who were protecting their homeland.

You are also right that Somalia has little to offer most other countries, and this has worked both for and against Somalia in a variety of ways. For the USA, it would probably just rather forget about Somalia. Until recently, my most vivid memory of Somalia was of the attacks by Somali warlords on Americans in Mogadishu. Our interactions with Somailia have not left a good taste in our collective mouths. We argue amongst ourselves whether we had any business being there in the first place, and that it was a sign that even if there are places needing help we can't be everywhere and aren't always welcomed when we are. So, it is hard to hear now that we were wrong for not responding to these other issues about dumping and fishing in the past when it was exactly in that past that we were told we were wrong for being in Somalia in the first place. It seems that whatever course the USA takes it is ****ed if we do and ****ed if we don't. In that sort of environment, we are going to define our interests more along our own selfish lines. Off the coast of Somalia, that means protecting ships flying our flag and vigorously fighting of anyone who threatens them.

As far as the valid issues you bring up, somehow all sides are going to have to move on beyond the issues that clutter up our past and decide what we want and can do in the future. I don't think lifting up a "Coast Guard" that openly attacks ships operating peacefully and legally in international waters is going to be Somalia's best strategy. But since it did bring you some attention again, you are probably wise to make use of it to once again push on these other legitimate issues that you do have. Just don't link them too closely with the pirates or you will quickly lose the hearing that you presently enjoy.
 
The actions of these pirates have nothing to do with nuclear waste. They gain reputation in their communities by sacking and pillaging ships. It is like the Wild West in the U.S. To pose the theory that the piracy that goes on off Somali waters is due to waste dumpage is laughable at best. They represent nothing and noone except themselves and their particular criminal element.

If you're going to strip this down to its most elemental aspects, then you'd do well to consider that the reason these people resort to piracy is because of the complete lack of opportunity in Somalia.

The new president just recently ratified a decree that would charge the Justice Ministry with the implementation of Sharia. That, supplemented by the departure of foreign peace-keeping troops will enable the new administration to tackle this problem decisively.

Constant foreign subversion and American denunciations of an extraordinarily inchoate administration will only undermine its efforts.
 
keep your hair on mate.........im might be deluded but here....i can help you enlighten yourself abit and maybe you could do the same for me another time :)


Johann Hari: You are being lied to about pirates

Some are clearly just gangsters. But others are trying to stop illegal dumping and trawling

Monday, 5 January 2009


Who imagined that in 2009, the world's governments would be declaring a new War on Pirates? As you read this, the British Royal Navy – backed by the ships of more than two dozen nations, from the US to China – is sailing into Somalian waters to take on men we still picture as parrot-on-the-shoulder pantomime villains. They will soon be fighting Somalian ships and even chasing the pirates onto land, into one of the most broken countries on earth. But behind the arrr-me-hearties oddness of this tale, there is an untold scandal. The people our governments are labelling as "one of the great menaces of our times" have an extraordinary story to tell – and some justice on their side.

Pirates have never been quite who we think they are. In the "golden age of piracy" – from 1650 to 1730 – the idea of the pirate as the senseless, savage Bluebeard that lingers today was created by the British government in a great propaganda heave. Many ordinary people believed it was false: pirates were often saved from the gallows by supportive crowds. Why? What did they see that we can't? In his book Villains Of All Nations, the historian Marcus Rediker pores through the evidence.

If you became a merchant or navy sailor then – plucked from the docks of London's East End, young and hungry – you ended up in a floating wooden Hell. You worked all hours on a cramped, half-starved ship, and if you slacked off, the all-powerful captain would whip you with the Cat O' Nine Tails. If you slacked often, you could be thrown overboard. And at the end of months or years of this, you were often cheated of your wages.

Pirates were the first people to rebel against this world. They mutinied – and created a different way of working on the seas. Once they had a ship, the pirates elected their captains, and made all their decisions collectively, without torture. They shared their bounty out in what Rediker calls "one of the most egalitarian plans for the disposition of resources to be found anywhere in the eighteenth century".

They even took in escaped African slaves and lived with them as equals. The pirates showed "quite clearly – and subversively – that ships did not have to be run in the brutal and oppressive ways of the merchant service and the Royal Navy." This is why they were romantic heroes, despite being unproductive thieves.

The words of one pirate from that lost age, a young British man called William Scott, should echo into this new age of piracy. Just before he was hanged in Charleston, South Carolina, he said: "What I did was to keep me from perishing. I was forced to go a-pirateing to live." In 1991, the government of Somalia collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since – and the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas.

Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died.

Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the UN envoy to Somalia, tells me: "Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead, and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury – you name it." Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to "dispose" of cheaply. When I asked Mr Ould-Abdallah what European governments were doing about it, he said with a sigh: "Nothing. There has been no clean-up, no compensation, and no prevention."

At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia's seas of their greatest resource: seafood. We have destroyed our own fish stocks by overexploitation – and now we have moved on to theirs. More than $300m-worth of tuna, shrimp, and lobster are being stolen every year by illegal trawlers. The local fishermen are now starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: "If nothing is done, there soon won't be much fish left in our coastal waters."

This is the context in which the "pirates" have emerged. Somalian fishermen took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least levy a "tax" on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coastguard of Somalia – and ordinary Somalis agree. The independent Somalian news site WardheerNews found 70 per cent "strongly supported the piracy as a form of national defence".

No, this doesn't make hostage-taking justifiable, and yes, some are clearly just gangsters – especially those who have held up World Food Programme supplies. But in a telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali: "We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits [to be] those who illegally fish and dump in our seas." William Scott would understand.

Did we expect starving Somalians to stand passively on their beaches, paddling in our toxic waste, and watch us snatch their fish to eat in restaurants in London and Paris and Rome? We won't act on those crimes – the only sane solution to this problem – but when some of the fishermen responded by disrupting the transit-corridor for 20 per cent of the world's oil supply, we swiftly send in the gunboats.

The story of the 2009 war on piracy was best summarised by another pirate, who lived and died in the fourth century BC. He was captured and brought to Alexander the Great, who demanded to know "what he meant by keeping possession of the sea." The pirate smiled, and responded: "What you mean by seizing the whole earth; but because I do it with a petty ship, I am called a robber, while you, who do it with a great fleet, are called emperor." Once again, our great imperial fleets sail – but who is the robber?

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...-are-being-lied-to-about-pirates-1225817.html

The somalian fishermen have all the right to defend their living ..
 
When I saw the headline "Somali pirates vow revenge." my first thought was: Are you kidding? What's to avenge. The pirates started this. Other people were just defending themselves and now the pirates are the ones who seek revenge.


However, as the saying goes, there are two sides to everything. The pirates' view is, I guess, that since they hadn't killed anyone, then they had no expectation that anyone had any right to kill them in defending themselves from the pirates.

But is that a reasoned argument? Afterall, the pirates did use force in taking their captives. They fired bullets and rocket propelled grenades at the boats. Perhaps they were just lucky that no one had been killed yet. When Capt. Philipps had briefly escaped from them and was swimming away, they didn't just let him go. They made him get back in the boat. What would they have done if he had kept swimming? Would they have let him go or have shot and killed him? It was only the threat of arms that enabled them to accomplish what they did accomplish. It seems to me that it was the pirates who raised the stakes to the lethal level the moment they introduced firearms into the picture. With that introduction, it was inevitable that someone, on one side or the other, was going to be hurt or killed eventually. Now it has happened, and the pirates are the ones who feel the need to seek revenge. Incredible!!




Lol!!!:D Id like to see them try and take revenge against the french navy!! with their lil fishing boats! No revenge to be had here, cut and run is what theyl do.
 
This whole apparently moralistic anti-piracy stance being adopted by the west is just blatant duplicity. These shipping vessels that are attacked are the only feasible means these people have to resistance of the pollution of their coastal waters and pillaging of their fishing areas. They cannot reasonably be expected to take on the countries on whose behalf these vessels ply that stretch of ocean.

The Americans send in a whole host of warships to neutralise this piracy threat to their commercial activities, yet the world ignores how they armed the Ethiopians and were the prime instigators behind the recent Ethiopian occupation also themselves bombing regularly Somali territory in the past year.
 

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