Why did Allah create the universe?

[جوري]

Again, you're off topic. If you want to pursue the issue, feel free to PM me or set up a discussion somewhere else. I'm very happy to try and answer your questions (so long as you don't put words in my mouth like "God died").

Yours,
M

let's make the issue within your very tight confidence interval as pertains to this topic then.. Why would Allah create the universe if his plan was to die?

if God didn't die, does that mean you believe that Jesus (god) didn't die?
so far you haven't answered the question and it is very much within topic. I'd like to know (given your chosen way of life) why you think Allah created the universe and how his death plays in all of this..

seems fair when you ask others their opinions, that you dispense with yours as well?

I have no interest I having a private conversation with you.. I think this thread will suffice!

all the best

 

[mattityahu]

let's make the issue within your very tight confidence interval as pertains to this topic then.. Why would Allah create the universe if his plan was to die?

if God didn't die, does that mean you believe that Jesus (god) didn't die?
so far you haven't answered the question and it is very much within topic. I'd like to know (given your chosen way of life) why you think Allah created the universe and how his death plays in all of this..

seems fair when you ask others their opinions, that you dispense with yours as well?

I have no interest I having a private conversation with you.. I think this thread will suffice!

all the best

As I said, I'm happy to answer in a relevant thread. Allah didn't die, so the question is essentially meaningless.

I again invite you to respond to the questions in the topic.

Yours,
M

PS Thanks for the negative rep! Feelin' the love!

 

[جوري]

As I said, I'm happy to answer in a relevant thread. Allah didn't die, so the question is essentially meaningless.

I again invite you to respond to the questions in the topic.

Yours,
M

PS Thanks for the negative rep! Feelin' the love!

Greetings,
I believe we have collectively answered your Q, the time has come for you to share your views as pertains to the topic!

Do I understand from what you have written above that
Jesus wasn't crucified? He didn't die?

and lastly my pleasure of course I love to return the favor.. skulking might win you a couple of rep pts though with your home team!

all the best

 

[mattityahu]

Re: Theists, Why did God create man?

I don't think my questions about reflecting on Creation have really being settled yet. I don't think Allah's motivation for creating other things has yet been explained either (eg Pygoscelis' questions below).

Assuming that God exists and created the universe and man in it, my question is why? What do you think motivated God to do so? What does God get out of it? Only options I can think of are as follows, please add your own.

1. God was bored.

Being the only existing entity forever, maybe God was bored and wanted to be entertained, so he created the universe and us in it.

2. God was lonely.

Maybe God was lonely and created us to have somebody else around and keep him company and to love and be loved by.

3. God was proud.

Maybe God was proud and created us so he would have somebody to worship him.

4. God was maternal.

Maybe God isn't forever and wanted to create us as his offspring, to eventually replace him after he expires.

What other options do you see?

Yours,
M

 

[جوري]

Re: Theists, Why did God create man?

I don't think my questions about reflecting on Creation have really being settled yet. I don't think Allah's motivation for creating other things has yet been explained either (eg Pygoscelis' questions below).
Yours,
M

The reason why he created the universe has been settled. Your inability to accept the responses given you is a completely different matter all together...

If you find yourself in an exam situation and the Question reads:

[FONT=&quot]2. A 5-year-old girl is brought to the physician because of temperatures to 40 C (104 F), tachypnea, and a nonproductive cough for 12 hours. Four days ago she was treated with an oral antibiotic for suspected pneumococcal pneumonia. Examination shows diminished breath sounds over the lower right lung fields and dullness to percussion at the right costophrenic angle. Which of the following is the most likely diagnosis?

A ) Bronchopleural fistula

B ) Empyema

C ) Lung abscess

D ) Pleurodynia

E ) Pneumothorax[/FONT]

you can't then come and complain that you need more info about her family history, history of surgeries, allergies, or recent travels to be able to answer the question, since all the info. that you need to answer the question is already given you.

If you are unable to answer the question from that point forward, then no one is to blame but yourself.

Everyone has given you the best response. The Quran is replete with answers. If at this point you are still dissatisfied, then you I suggest you take it out with the creator on the day of recompense!

all the best

 

[mattityahu]

Re: Theists, Why did God create man?

The reason why he created the universe has been settled. Your inability to accept the responses given you is a completely different matter all together...

If you find yourself in an exam situation and the Question reads:



you can't then come and complain that you need more info about her family history, history of surgeries, allergies, or recent travels to be able to answer the question, since all the info. that you need to answer the question is already given you.

If you are unable to answer the question from that point forward, then no one is to blame but yourself.

Everyone has given you the best response. The Quran is replete with answers. If at this point you are still dissatisfied, then you I suggest you take it out with the creator on the day of recompense!

all the best

I can't find any responses to Pygoscelis' question. Please point me to one.

Yours,
M

 

[جوري]

The answer is none of what he proposed-- Pygo is only human without much abstract thought!

The purpose of creation is to worship Allah swt. For what reasons, Only Allah swt can answer.. we might not be his most important creation all together as is evidenced in Suret Al Insan:

[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 76:1] Has there not been over Man a long period of Time, when he was nothing - (not even) mentioned?

and the verse in Suret Al-Anbya previously given you:

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:23] He will not be questioned as to that which He doeth, but they will be questioned.



[/SIZE]all the best

 

[mattityahu]

The answer is none of what he proposed-- Pygo is only human without much abstract thought!

The purpose of creation is to worship Allah swt. For what reasons, Only Allah swt can answer.. we might not be his most important creation all together as is evidenced in Suret Al Insan:

[SIZE=-1][Yusufali 76:1] Has there not been over Man a long period of Time, when he was nothing - (not even) mentioned?

and the verse in Suret Al-Anbya previously given you:

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1][Pickthal 21:23] He will not be questioned as to that which He doeth, but they will be questioned.



[/SIZE]all the best

To clarify then, we don't know the reason Allah created the universe? If everyone agrees(?), then let's close the thread as this is the ultimate answer to the thread question. It does seem quite an important question not to have an answer to, but there we go.

Yours,
M

 

[جوري]

To clarify then, we don't know the reason Allah created the universe? If everyone agrees(?), then let's close the thread as this is the ultimate answer to the thread question. It does seem quite an important question not to have an answer to, but there we go.

Yours,
M

All you really had to do was browse the forum for a response
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134278502-why-did-allah-create-us.html

obviously no responses echo your sentiments, thus-- If your question is so important, why are you closing the thread? shouldn't you bestow your enlightenment upon us?

by the way the answers are given all throughout the Quran and the forum..
and on this very thread, they simply don't fall within the confines you or an atheist have created!

all the best

 

[mattityahu]

All you really had to do was browse the forum for a response
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134278502-why-did-allah-create-us.html

obviously no responses echo your sentiments, thus-- If your question is so important, why are you closing the thread? shouldn't you bestow your enlightenment upon us?

by the way the answers are given all throughout the Quran and the forum..
and on this very thread, they simply don't fall within the confines you or an atheist have created!

all the best

Your previous post stated that "only Allah knows" the reason. If only He knows, and doesn't feel impelled to tell us in the Qur'an, then what more questions are there to ask about the topic? I can't shed any more light than you can on why Allah might have created everything.

Yours,
M

 

[جوري]

Your previous post stated that "only Allah knows" the reason. If only He knows, and doesn't feel impelled to tell us in the Qur'an, then what more questions are there to ask about the topic? I can't shed any more light than you can on why Allah might have created everything.

Yours,
M

You want to know his incentive (behind creation) and that is something only God can answer -- as far as humans are concerned their reason for creation is already answered.
It is really a two part question.
Now, you have chosen 'Christianity' as a way of life and came to an Islamic forum asking Muslims a question (I assume being a man of faith having already an answer to) one Q, I believe is pertinent to all religions.

We Muslims are satisfied with the answer that pertains to our existence as per Quran and Sunna, the only logical thing left to do, is for to extend the courtesy given you are the thread starter to give us a nice closure as to what you thinks Allah's motives for our creation--no?

all the best

 

[mattityahu]

As you wish. I can explain how I currently understand one of Yahweh's reasons for creating the universe (I suppose there are many, but maybe this will suffice). John 3:16 tells us that "Yahweh so loved the world that He gave His only Son." Here we see, then, that one of the ways Yahweh expresses His love is the giving of gifts. It is then natural, by extension, to consider the possibility that the Universe is in some sense a gift which is given between the persons of the Trinity as a manifestation of the love that Yahweh expresses within Himself. To be a perfect gift it must reflect the perfection of Yahweh Himself. Hence, the Universe is divisible, yet unified, as Yahweh is. But more than this: just as Yahweh loves the Son, the gift He gave to us, so He loves us.

This is only a short answer, and I make no claims that this is watertight. But it's a start, and I hope it's of interest.

Yours,
M

 

[جوري]

As you wish. I can explain how I currently understand one of Yahweh's reasons for creating the universe (I suppose there are many, but maybe this will suffice). John 3:16 tells us that "Yahweh so loved the world that He gave His only Son."

Why does Yahweh have to give his son to show love? it seems barbaric rather than an act of love no? especially the way he beseeched himself the night prior to his self-immolation, and ignored himself, thus leading the rest of humanity to believe he won't come through for them, if he couldn't come through for himself!

Here we see, then, that one of the ways Yahweh expresses His love is the giving of gifts. It is then natural, by extension, to consider the possibility that the Universe is in some sense a gift which is given between the persons of the Trinity as a manifestation of the love that Yahweh expresses within Himself. To be a perfect gift it must reflect the perfection of Yahweh Himself. Hence, the Universe is divisible, yet unified, as Yahweh is. But more than this: just as Yahweh loves the Son, the gift He gave to us, so He loves us.

A Divine Love is given you from the link:
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134278502-why-did-allah-create-us.html

not two posts ago, and you seemed to ignore it or dismiss it as insufficient.. is that hypocrisy on your part?

This is only a short answer, and I make no claims that this is watertight. But it's a start, and I hope it's of interest.

Yours,
M

You didn't answer the question at all..
Divine love and establishment of justice amongst others, are given you in the link (see above) you seemed to find that inadequate, unanswered, and now you give this Bologna about self-immolating for love as a reason for creation?

try again!

all the best

 

[GreyKode]

ooooh so that's why?

It's a gift from yahweh to himself in order to express his love to himself.

 

[جوري]

ooooh so that's why?

It's a gift from yahweh to himself in order to express his love to himself.

you dare mock this epiphany? We have been waiting for this innovatory revelation to unfold for four pages now -- I am sure it is worth everyone's while.. I certainly bought it...

 

[mattityahu]

Why does Yahweh have to give his son to show love? it seems barbaric rather than an act of love no? especially the way he beseeched himself the night prior to his self-immolation, and ignored himself, thus leading the rest of humanity to believe he won't come through for them, if he couldn't come through for himself!

A Divine Love is given you from the link:
http://www.islamicboard.com/general/134278502-why-did-allah-create-us.html

not two posts ago, and you seemed to ignore it or dismiss it as insufficient.. is that hypocrisy on your part?


You didn't answer the question at all..
Divine love and establishment of justice amongst others, are given you in the link (see above) you seemed to find that inadequate, unanswered, and now you give this Bologna about self-immolating for love as a reason for creation?

try again!

all the best

No it doesn't seem barbaric to me at all. In fact I find it rather beautiful, that Yahweh loves the world so much that He is willing to enter into it to deal with all the sin in the world. You must understand that sin is much more serious in Christianity than in Islam. It's not just breaking of Divine commands, but breaking of the covenant relationship He wants with us. Something that breaks such a relationship cannot just be forgiven in Christianity, no matter how simple that may make it. There are consequences to sin: suffering and death being two of them. To just forgive sin would not deal with these problems. The Son entered into suffering and death as the ultimate cure. He underwent the consequences that we should have gone through to save us from our sin.

It was not a barbaric "Father killing Son" act: The Son freely chose to do it. And this was not suicide: Yahweh didn't die. He entered into death. This may seems pedantic but it makes all the difference in the world. True, the human body the Son became (Jesus/Yeshua) died: but the Son didn't die. Neither did the Father or the Spirit. His resurrection was then a sign of the Victory the Son had made over the consequences of sin, a sign that some day the world will be perfect again.

I don't think this is quite the same as the Divine love on the page you linked: Allah only loves those who love Him. Did creation love Allah before it existed?

Divine love and establishment of justice can only be reasons after the world is created, not before. We are discussing Allah's motivation for creating, and, as you agree, we do not know this.

It may well be Bologna. But you have to understand the fundamental differences between the Islamic and Christian understandings of God and sin before critiquing Christianity's claims from the Islamic standpoint.

Yours,
M

 

[mattityahu]

ooooh so that's why?

It's a gift from yahweh to himself in order to express his love to himself.

That's not quite right. It's a gift shared within Yahweh in order to express the love within Himself.

Yours,
M

PS I'm not claiming that this is the reason, but perhaps a reason, one way of understanding His motivations.

 

[Muhammad]

Greetings mattityahu,

PS I'm not claiming that this is the reason, but perhaps a reason, one way of understanding His motivations.

So you don't know why God created the Universe... only speculate on a possible reason, which, might I add, comes nowhere near in clarity or simplicity like the reasons presented earlier which you seem to have disregarded quite quickly...

The questions then become: If Creation is, in fact, nothing like Allah, then why did He create it?

Why must the creation resemble the Creator for Him to create it?

If Oneness is perfect, then why doesn't His Creation have this Oneness? To go further, why did He create anything other than Himself if Otherness is not perfect?

Again, why must God's creation be as perfect as Himself? It's like asking, could God create another God like Himself, which goes back to other nonsensical questions like, 'can He create a stone too heavy for Him to lift?'.

Did creation love Allah before it existed?

The question doesn't make sense. If creation doesn't exist, then by definition it cannot love.

Divine love and establishment of justice can only be reasons after the world is created, not before.

You are beginning to impose rules on God when He is beyond our comprehension. What might be true for His creation, is not necessarily true for God.

Another question I'd like to ask is - how is the universe divisible, yet unified, according to your view?

 

[mattityahu]

Greetings mattityahu,

So you don't know why God created the Universe... only speculate on a possible reason, which, might I add, comes nowhere near in clarity or simplicity like the reasons presented earlier which you seem to have disregarded quite quickly...

Why must the creation resemble the Creator for Him to create it?

Again, why must God's creation be as perfect as Himself? It's like asking, could God create another God like Himself, which goes back to other nonsensical questions like, 'can He create a stone too heavy for Him to lift?'.

The question doesn't make sense. If creation doesn't exist, then by definition it cannot love.

You are beginning to impose rules on God when He is beyond our comprehension. What might be true for His creation, is not necessarily true for God.

Another question I'd like to ask is - how is the universe divisible, yet unified, according to your view?

No, I don't know for certain, this is the understanding I have come to by considering the way Yahweh acts in the Bible and what creation is like. Feel free to argue that this an unreasonable understanding if you like. To me it seems a reasonably clear and simple understanding, and certainly better than saying we cannot know the Creator's motivation.

Sure, there is no necessity upon Creation being anything like the Creator. It is clearly not perfect, and not a god, but (as I presume you agree) it is fundamentally good (otherwise we could not claim that there's anything wrong with it that needs fixing). But goodness is only defined by what the Creator deems to be good, so it seems reasonable to suggest that Creation's goodness in some way reflects the Creator's goodness. But this is only my assumpton, that this form of natural theology is worthwhile.

The only "rules" I'm applying what I consider basic logic. If the Creator created logic, it would be reasonable to suggest that he created it as a means to understand him. This is justified biblically by the way Yahweh opposes chaos (so He loves order) and gives things names and meanings (as in Genesis). I don't think it logical that the Creator's motivation for creating the universe is so that He could love only the good things in it - it implies that the Creation is not good to begin with, and if this is the case, we must ask why He would create something bad.

Yours,
M

 

[Pygoscelis]

Yes, as sis Skye has answered above.

Allah does not need our worship. It is for our own benefit.

But as I quoted above, you'd just said that God created us for his worship. If he doesn't want or need our worship, why did he create us?