Why did Allah create the universe?

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mattityahu said:
Gossamer skye,

I have started a new thread with regards to Christianity and Paganism in Comparitive religions - let's discuss it over there.

Our argument is just going in circles as we have opposite paradigms of God. The differences in these paradigms need to be discussed separately - I'll create more threads on these individual issues - our enormous posts are just becoming unwieldy, trying to deal with all of them at once. Feel free to create your own threads on these issues if you like.

Yours,
M
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Good luck with that.. I have no interest in whittling myself over multiple threads... your queries as far as this thread have been answered and that is all there is to it.. I guarantee you'll only get more of the same no matter the thread title.. No discerning Muslim is going to accept a theology whose basic tenets have that much discrepancy and flaw!

happy evangelizing ..

all the best
 
Gossamer skye said:
Good luck with that.. I have no interest in whittling myself over multiple threads... your queries as far as this thread have been answered and that is all there is to it.. I guarantee you'll only get more of the same no matter the thread title.. No discerning Muslim is going to accept a theology whose basic tenets have that much discrepancy and flaw!

happy evangelizing ..

all the best
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But you're willing to discuss all of them in one thread? :S

M
 
mattityahu said:
But you're willing to discuss all of them in one thread? :S

M
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Yup, cuts down on useless threads.. and makes everything easily attainable, so I am not looking to re-quote myself...
aside from that I am not looking to debate you.
You couldn't come up with anything that will make me think Christianity a viable religion let alone a contender.. Perhaps there are things you can bribe poor people in developing countries material goods for a conversion. But even then I think, the being of God x3 then 1 and a mother is too much baggage, becomes so convoluted that they might fancy their tribal customs comparable if not superior..

So to cut down on three useless threads, although any member of the board is free to engage you, Yes I believe Christianity adopts heavily from Paganism-- yes I think a God who suffers is ineffectual and unworthy of praise or worship.
The Moral code doesn't differ between ideologies or religions (thus nothing you quote me about peace/love/charity) means anything, also contrary to the church's history of massacres and ignorance which is quite opposite to what they like to portray ..
The Question in the end remains, which path is pleasing both to the heart and the mind--goes with nature and not against and what man can perceive and not yield to fairy tales at the very crux of its being?! And I think the choice is clear..

happy evangelizing!

all the best
 
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salaam

Also humans were made to be caliphs or Viceregents on earth to take care of the earth which is an act of worship.

peace
 
AabiruSabeel said:
He wants to reward us with everlasting bounties in Paradise, but before that, He wants to let us know who among us was really worthy of entering paradise, so he sent us in this world to test us.



It wasn't retracted. He has indeed created man to worship Him, yet He doesn't need our worship. Then why He wants us to worship Him? Read above your quote.

Not for (idle) sport did We create the heavens and the earth and all that is between! [21:16]

There might be other reasons why Allah wants to worship Him, but since our brain has limited intelligence, we cannot fully understand the actual deeper Wisdom behind it. If you can't understand, then it is the fault of your own brain, or perhaps I cannot explain you better. May Allah forgive me for that.
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Thank you for the actual answer (unlike your colleague who just tries and fails to insult folks) :)

It sounds similar to the Christian idea given earlier in the thread. In both cases you've got a God wanting to be giving but having nobody to give to, so in the one case he gives to himself and in the other he creates a recipient for his gift.
 
Pygoscelis said:
Thank you for the actual answer (unlike your colleague who just tries and fails to insult folks) :)

It sounds similar to the Christian idea given earlier in the thread. In both cases you've got a God wanting to be giving but having nobody to give to, so in the one case he gives to himself and in the other he creates a recipient for his gift.
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Both views are pretty much the same and amount to the same conclusion.
 
Pygoscelis said:
(unlike your colleague who just tries and fails to insult folks) :)
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Does that mean I have failed at insulting you? Darn!
ingratiating yourself to members will not win you any favors.. Everyone sees through the transparency of your charade!

all the best
 
Pygoscelis said:
Thank you for the actual answer (unlike your colleague who just tries and fails to insult folks) :)

It sounds similar to the Christian idea given earlier in the thread. In both cases you've got a God wanting to be giving but having nobody to give to, so in the one case he gives to himself and in the other he creates a recipient for his gift.
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I would say there is a slight difference: why does Allah create the recipient? He has no desire or need to create us. If we extend the gift idea to a strictly monotheistic view of God, the gift is an expression of a kind of selfish love, while the trinitarian view has the gift as an expression of a selfless love, a love that appreciates otherness, a love which makes it possible to enjoy the otherness of the gift.

Yours,
M
 
Pygoscelis said:
Thank you for the actual answer (unlike your colleague who just tries and fails to insult folks) :)

It sounds similar to the Christian idea given earlier in the thread. In both cases you've got a God wanting to be giving but having nobody to give to, so in the one case he gives to himself and in the other he creates a recipient for his gift.
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Do you really find it similar to the idea of Yahweh expressing love within himself?
 
f we extend the gift idea to a strictly monotheistic view of God, the gift is an expression of a kind of selfish love, while the trinitarian view has the gift as an expression of a selfless love, a love that appreciates otherness, a love which makes it possible to enjoy the otherness of the gift.
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What the hell?
otherness? WHAT IS OTHERNESS OF THE GIFT?

youre just assembling words into meaningless sentences.
 
GreyKode said:
Do you really find it similar to the idea of Yahweh expressing love within himself?
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I have never understood how self-immolation or self-flagellation is a selfless kind of love or an act of love at all -- do you?
my brother's friend committed suicide when he was in high school, he wrote a letter apology and expressed his love to everyone..
No one really understood, why a bright young man would kill himself in such a vile manner and consider it an act of love. His mom used to gather his friends to ask them seeking clues, was he depressed, was he bullied was he---
she never received satisfactory answers and everyone along with her was devastated.
Many yrs have passed and now she has grandchildren by her other son. The woman has never looked whole from the day he took his life. I try casual contact whenever I run into her, but something is broken there...

the bottom line is it is an act of cowardice that has hurt everyone in the process.. can you now imagine it God being the one to die, because he is selfless and loves everyone?
 
GreyKode said:
What the hell?
otherness? WHAT IS OTHERNESS OF THE GIFT?

youre just assembling words into meaningless sentences.
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"Otherness" is that property of something which makes it different to the one observing it. Selfless love requires a subject and object, the object being other/different to the subject.

Yours,
M
 
In the case of the love between the persons of the trinity, one person of the trinity is the object, while another is the subject. In the case of the gift, the gift is the object, while a person of the trinity is the subject.

Yours,
M
 
So supposedly one of the persons(father) gave the gift to another(Son), and then the first person(father) loved the gift so much so he gave the Son to the gift, which was offered to him in the first place.
Apparently the first person loved the gift more than his love to the other person.
 
Only if you put 'so much' in there. I could easily put 'so much' after "The Father loved the Son", or "so so much" etc.

Yours,
M
 

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