The true religion.

[Sarada]

A means of focusing on God? So you could use absolutely anything as a means to focus on God, anything from a piece of chalk to a Michael Jackson poster. Is this due to lack of imagination or for those that just have the craving desire for a visual aid?

Even though anything can be used as a visual aid it's still does not qualify as idol worshipping when a man-made statue with flutes, heads of animals, multiple arms, red lipstick and such is used for rituals and bowing? Odd.

Don't be silly.

 

[Zafran]

Yes there are descriptions of the various forms of God in the many different scriptures that are part of Hinduism

The Vedas describe four VARNAS which are based on a person's capabilities and occupation and are not hereditary.

Brahmin, spiritual leader, teacher
Kshatriya, soldier, police, those who protect society
Vaishya, merchants, farmers, craftsmen, etc.
Shudra, servants

Isnt the shudra made out of the feet - which is the lowest occupaton? and the Brahmin from the top - which is the higher occupation? does this make the leader better then the servant?

 

[جوري]

silly that he finds it odd? but not silly that a recently beheaded kid whose mother wanted to replace his decapitated head that her lover did away with earlier couldn't find any other head save for that of an elephant, and then magically he is potbellied god?


Just so when you make an effort to proselytize you'd know that you've quite the challenge ahead :smile:

all the best

 

[Sarada]

I am glad that posting pictures of your gods doesn't offend you as you so had us believing by your earlier posts...

all the best

When I said no insulting other relgions in a previous post, I was speaking in general terms. I was not referring to your link to a picture of Lord Shiva.

How can I be offended by true facts about my religion?

I can only be offended by half-truths, innuendos.

Even silly, off the wall statements cannot offend me. Such as the ones by Asif. (because even he does not really believe what he wrote)

Perhaps I shall go off now and meditate on my lipstick ... now, what shade shall I choose? Ha Ha Ha

 

[Ali_008]

I missed a great share of this debate but Alhamduillah was able to catch up now. The latest two criteria in discussion have been proselytizing and not insulting others' beliefs. Well, GubbleKnucker and Sarada, Islam passes in both these tests as well, Alhamdulillah.

It is very clearly mentioned in the Quran in Surah 6 i.e. Surah Anam, verse 108

Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance.

So, you see insulting others' God(s) is against the Qur'an.

Islam encourages spreading the truth. A Muslim is allowed only to do Daw'ah and not to force anyone to do something. I can take you to the pond and even make your head bend close to the water but its you who ultimately has to let the water flow down your throat. In the Qur'an in Surah Baqarah, verse 256, it is mentioned

PICKTHAL There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.


And coming to proselytizing, Islam talks about loving your Brothers and Sisters in both Islam and humanity. I'd like to ask you a question. If you see that someone close to you is getting ready to jump off a cliff and kill himself, would you not stop that beloved of yours? Would you not want to save him from destruction? Would you not like to see him as happy as you? The answer to all of them would be that yes, you'd save that person. And if you're good enough then you would even save a stranger from committing suicide and so when you see people going headlong into destruction, it becomes the duty of a good Human to help them. How would you treat a person who hoards up every good thing he can and doesn't even care to give a little (if not much) of his provision to those that don't have it and rather have some hazardous feed for themselves.

People say that Islam spread through the sword but even today (i.e. July 8th, 2009) it is the fastest growing religion in the World. Since 1400 years this has been the case. I ask you, which sword is forcing the people today to realise the truth. Rather the Muslims are undergoing persecution in almost every pocket of the World.

I'm sorry but I think your criterion of proselytizing doesn't even fit for a good and true human let alone the perfect belief.

 

[Zafran]

also.....

Yes there are descriptions of the various forms of God in the many different scriptures that are part of Hinduism

isnt God formless? so where did the descriptions come from?

The Arya Samaj, however, maintains that God is formless

 

[جوري]

When I said no insulting other relgions in a previous post, I was speaking in general terms. I was not referring to your link to a picture of Lord Shiva.

I see, just generalizing for the reader to decipher what he may?

How can I be offended by true facts about my religion?

That is what I thought too..

I can only be offended by half-truths, innuendos.

if the half truth starts with an elephant god, I am not sure how much better looking the full truth will be?

Even silly, off the wall statements cannot offend me. Such as the ones by Asif. (because even he does not really believe what he wrote)

I didn't think his statement was silly at all, and I say that with full impartiality!

Perhaps I shall go off now and meditate on my lipstick ... now, what shade shall I choose? Ha Ha Ha

chanel's Aqualumiere is pretty impressive I hear!

all the best

 

[جوري]

Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance.

.

Indeed.. sadaqa Allah al3atheem..however, I didn't think it was merited to bring up the noble Quran on the matter given the choices we had here.. people with their minds already made up of a whole host of things from 'vestigial' appendices to the dogmatic Islam..
I don't like to Quote the Quran in foolish discourse. Nonetheless, these are actual facts and not a revilement as professed by the other point of view..

 

[Sarada]

silly that he finds it odd? but not silly that a recently beheaded kid whose mother wanted to replace his decapitated head that her lover did away with earlier couldn't find any other head save for that of an elephant, and then magically he is potbellied god?


Just so when you make an effort to proselytize you'd know that you've quite the challenge ahead :smile:

all the best

I do not intend to proselytize. I am not on this forum to promote my religion. I am here to learn about the mind set and points of view of Muslims, and to share my knowledge of my religion when asked.

Yes, you have some knowledge of the mythology, but you do not understand the symbolism. Let me correct you on some of the details. Parvati fashioned Ganesh from the sloughed off skin of her body, and asked him to stand guard and not let anyone disturb her while she was having her bath. When her HUSBAND, Lord Shiva came home and wanted to see her, Ganesh tried to prevent him, and Shiva cut off his head.

None of this is to be taken literally. It is all symbolic.

Most of the Muslims on this forum do not have the mind set required to become Hindus. Their brains are just not wired that way.

I agree with Gandhi who once said, "If you are a Hindu, be a good Hindu, if you are a Muslim, be a good Muslim, if you are a Christian, then be a good Christian"


In my view, there are different belief systems to accommodate different types of people. but in the end no matter how we worship, we worship the same God, for there can be only one God.

 

[barrio79]

Appendix has a function, according to Duke University study

Duke University was thought to be founded by the Quakers, now that might not be " The True Religion " but is probably the purest of religions

 

[جوري]

Appendix has a function, according to Duke University study

Duke University was thought to be founded by the Quakers, now that might not be " The True Religion " but is probably the purest of religions

Do you have something of science to rebut the article that is peer reviewed? or just fond of logical fallacies that run the gamut?

 

[Sarada]

Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance..

I would never and have never reviled Allah. There are many things I don't understand about Islam, and many things that I may not agree with, but, name me one time when I have reviled Allah.

The same cannot be said for some people on this forum, who choose to twist ,my words and use them against me, reviling the forms of God that I worship in their limited understanding.

According to your beliefs, I might be going to hell, but

that is my risk. My beliefs include the principle of Ahimsa or non-violence.

Therefore, my personal beliefs could not harm you in any way.

 

[جوري]

Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance..

I would never and have never reviled Allah. There are many things I don't understand about Islam, and many things that I may not agree with, but, name me one time when I have reviled Allah.

The same cannot be said for some people on this forum, who choose to twist ,my words and use them against me, reviling the forms of God that I worship in their limited understanding.

According to your beliefs, I might be going to hell and eternal ****ation, but

that is my risk. My beliefs include the principle of Ahimsa or non-violence.

Therefore, my personal beliefs could not harm you in any way.

I never meant you mental upset or hurt if that is what you are suggesting!

peace

 

[Sarada]

I never meant you mental upset or hurt if that is what you are suggesting!

peace

I am not suggesting that you upset me,

I am just reminding people that I try to be respectful of others at all times. Perhaps, sometimes I have failed. If I have then please forgive me, as it was unintentional.

 

[Ali_008]

Indeed.. sadaqa Allah al3atheem..however, I didn't think it was merited to bring up the noble Quran on the matter given the choices we had here.. people with their minds already made up of a whole host of things from 'vestigial' appendices to the dogmatic Islam..
I don't like to Quote the Quran in foolish discourse. Nonetheless, these are actual facts and not a revilement as professed by the other point of view..

I think its best to use your best weapon in a battle and we actually have the advantage of having one so why not use it.

Surah Nahl, verse 125

Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious

:thumbs_up:thumbs_up

 

[جوري]

I am not suggesting that you upset me,

I am just reminding people that I try to be respectful of others at all times. Perhaps, sometimes I have failed. If I have then please forgive me, as it was unintentional.

Like wise if I have upset you.. my humble apologies..

peace

 

[جوري]

I think its best to use your best weapon in a battle and we actually have the advantage of having one so why not use it.

Surah Nahl, verse 125

Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious

:thumbs_up:thumbs_up

Jazaka Allah khyran

 

[Ali_008]

Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance..

I would never and have never reviled Allah. There are many things I don't understand about Islam, and many things that I may not agree with, but, name me one time when I have reviled Allah.

The same cannot be said for some people on this forum, who choose to twist ,my words and use them against me, reviling the forms of God that I worship in their limited understanding.

According to your beliefs, I might be going to hell, but

that is my risk. My beliefs include the principle of Ahimsa or non-violence.

Therefore, my personal beliefs could not harm you in any way.

You can have all your clarifications here, just tell us where you're lost and we'll get you out of there. I see Hindus everyday and I'm quite well versed with the Ramayana and the Mahabharata and I don't insult your Gods either but just like any Muslim, I can't accept the fact that they are worth worshipping but on the other hand you know that God is one and even you worship him and can't take the "risk" of reviling him.

Let me bring a point of commonality between Islam and Sanatan Dharma (i.e. Hinduism). Allah has been mentioned by 99 attributes and names in the Glorious Qur'an and one of them is Al-Khaliq, the Creator. And the Creator in Sanskrit is called Brahma. I have no problem if you refer to God by the name of Brahma but if you tell me that Brahma has some number of hands, he has a beard, a crown on his head, a wheel spinning in one of his fingers etc then I disagree with you because here you're attributing human form to Allah which is against the Qur'an. Surah 112, Al - Ikhlaas, verse 4 says:

And there is none like unto Him.

 

[Sarada]

You can have all your clarifications here, just tell us where you're lost and we'll get you out of there. I see Hindus everyday and I'm quite well versed with the Ramayana and the Mahabharata and I don't insult your Gods either but just like any Muslim, I can't accept the fact that they are worth worshipping but on the other hand you know that God is one and even you worship him and can't take the "risk" of reviling him.

Let me bring a point of commonality between Islam and Sanatan Dharma (i.e. Hinduism). Allah has been mentioned by 99 attributes and names in the Glorious Qur'an and one of them is Al-Khaliq, the Creator. And the Creator in Sanskrit is called Brahma. I have no problem if you refer to God by the name of Brahma but if you tell me that Brahma has some number of hands, he has a beard, a crown on his head, a wheel spinning in one of his fingers etc then I disagree with you because here you're attributing human form to Allah which is against the Qur'an. Surah 112, Al - Ikhlaas, verse 4 says:

And there is none like unto Him.

1. I do not revile God/Allah/Brahman/Ishwar/Gitchimanitou because of any perceived "risk", but because He/She is sacred.

2. I do not ask you to agree with me, or to look at the images or accept them. But I do ask that they not be mocked, because they are sacred to me.

And, if I am asked about them I must describe them honestly. Further, no self-respecting educated Hindu actually believes that these fantastic beings exist(ed) it is all symbolic.

3. This is forum on comparative religions, a place for I hope, friendly and respectful discussions. If I wish to be converted, I will post on one of the fora on Islam.

 

[barrio79]

Do you have something of science to rebut the article that is peer reviewed? or just fond of logical fallacies that run the gamut?

Thanks, for the info I did not realise that Quakerism was a logical fallacy , now I do.