most islamic country/place?

coventry road, birmingham lol . its like the only road i see practising people, niqabi central.

Those Muslims, who take the extremely or literal or fundamental interpretation of Islamic text to, for example, wear the niqab and not shake hands etc., how do they get around the Islamic text that commands that they not live in the land of the muskreen and are they wearing the niqab etc., because they feel guilty and hope that God will forgive them ignoring those commands that they don’t like?

(PS I am not asking the question to irritate you I’d really like to know the answer)
 
Those Muslims, who take the extremely or literal or fundamental interpretation of Islamic text to, for example, wear the niqab and not shake hands etc., how do they get around the Islamic text that commands that they not live in the land of the muskreen and are they wearing the niqab etc., because they feel guilty and hope that God will forgive them ignoring those commands that they don’t like?

(PS I am not asking the question to irritate you I’d really like to know the answer)

I would like to know aswell, wheter its okay for us to live in non muslim countries, i was born here, this is home, where do you want me to go.
 
I would like to know aswell, wheter its okay for us to live in non muslim countries, i was born here, this is home, where do you want me to go.

I want you all to stay and call it home, to give your loyalty and support to the country and its military and police forces that protect you - but that’s just what I want. For reasons of your own, some of you cannot do that. Muhammad, in his wisdom, appears to have anticipated this problem and decreed that you should only live amongst muskreen temporarily and just for trade and should strive to migrate to dar-al-Islam. What I can’t understand is how some of you strive so hard to abide by the letter of the law on some text and totally ignore other text and I wondered if they did the former because they feel guilty.

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/3225

“Verily, as for those whom the angels take (in death) while they are wronging themselves (as they stayed among the disbelievers even though emigration was obligatory for them), they (angels) say (to them): “In what (condition) were you?” They reply: “We were weak and oppressed on the earth.” They (angels) say: “Was not the earth of Allaah spacious enough for you to emigrate therein?” Such men will find their abode in Hell — what an evil destination! Except the weak ones among men, women and children who cannot devise a plan, nor are they able to direct their way. These are they whom Allaah is likely to forgive them, and Allaah is Ever Oft-Pardoning, Oft-Forgiving” [al-Nisaa’ 4:97-99]
 
I want you all to stay and call it home, to give your loyalty and support to the country and its military and police forces that protect you

I do support the UK though I do not agree with everything they do.

I'm British Pakistani, even though I was born in the UK, I often get comments where people have told me go back to Pakistan or that I'm not welcomed here.

At one point I did leave the UK and went back to Pakistan, but even there people considered me to be an outsider and not treated equally but worse. I even considered going to live in a Muslim country. From what I heard and learnt from others, Saudi Arabia does not welcome outsiders to live in their country despite if they are Muslims or not. I looked at many Muslim countries, and I'm afraid nationality comes first.

I'm not welcomed anywhere lol. So where shall I go now?

So I don't believe in nationality because people may support the government even though they do something wrong. Nationality just makes people differences more apparent. I also agree religion can do that too.

I prefer not to swear my loyalty to anyone but to Allah only. I only support people who have good intentions. Religion and nationality don't mean anything to me, unless if that person is genuinely good.
 
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Amazing, it seems that one of the top is not the top Islamic country/place is the UK and there are so many members here who abhor our values and who support the values of those that would do us harm!!


Say thnx to secular state and freedom of religion.
 
Those Muslims, who take the extremely or literal or fundamental interpretation of Islamic text to, for example, wear the niqab and not shake hands etc., how do they get around the Islamic text that commands that they not live in the land of the muskreen and are they wearing the niqab etc., because they feel guilty and hope that God will forgive them ignoring those commands that they don’t like? (PS I am not asking the question to irritate you I’d really like to know the answer)

you should stop making those horrible assumptions of yours. How do you know if these people are not in the process of making hijrah or have tried but failed because those so called 'islamic' countries dont like outsiders. Why do you assume that a niqaabi or bearded brother automatically means they are immigrants. What do you suggest the British government should do about those who are born in the country- force them to go back to the country they were originally from? More importantly what do you think the govt should do about those native British reverts? Coventry road, bham has a large quantity of white British muslims than any other places in Birmingham and even in UK.
 
And democracy...

To be more specific You should say - secular liberal democracy (which is a typical english idea btw), because the classical (greek) democracy was theocratic, as the Greeks believed that the every power (also political) comes from their gods. But the system in which all elements of the Order (call it natural law or God's law) - religion,family,posession and justice - can be disputed, is a real mess system, which USA is a good example.
 
Mecca and Madinah, 13 years after hijra.

And then things went wrong. Very very wrong.

:D indeeeed :skeleton:

lol i would still say saudi is the most islamic, but i believe its kinda corrupt aswell, like most islamic countries, but like i duno, there is good and bad everywer, on a level alhumdulilla uk is runnin thins :shade:
 
I do not think it is truly possible in the world today, to have a "nation" governed specifically by Islamic law. The world has gone smaller, due to human advancement, and now you have people immigrating from other nations, cutlures and religions.

We as Muslims must not force our ideals on the world, nor force unbelievers to live by what the Holy Qu'ran states. We can develop communities within our cities, and follow Sharia that way.
 
Amazing, it seems that one of the top is not the top Islamic country/place is the UK and there are so many members here who abhor our values and who support the values of those that would do us harm!!
so many members?...you mean like 2/3?...wow the numbers are sky rocketing, aren't they...

No thanks..
yes, please...

I want you all to stay and call it home, to give your loyalty and support to the country and its military and police forces that protect you - but that’s just what I want.
you make it sounds as if we're Muslims for your sake.

What I can’t understand is how some of you strive so hard to abide by the letter of the law on some text and totally ignore other text and I wondered if they did the former because they feel guilty.
or perhaps it may have been this (from the very same link you posted, may i add)
Whoever is unable to migrate – men, women or children – will be excused[...]

or maybe
Except the weak ones among men, women and children who cannot devise a plan, nor are they able to direct their way. These are they whom Allaah is likely to forgive them, and Allaah is Ever Oft-Pardoning, Oft-Forgiving”

though i have to comment...for someone who is so adamant against the Shariah law, you certainly seem to be doing a good job of preaching it....so, thank you!

Those Muslims, who take the extremely or literal or fundamental interpretation of Islamic text to, for example, wear the niqab and not shake hands etc., how do they get around the Islamic text that commands that they not live in the land of the muskreen and are they wearing the niqab etc.,
because the countries we live in are supposedly freedom loving? geez, you wouldn't want to frown upon democracy would ya now?

on the side: im sorry that a piece of cloth makes you feel insecure, paranoid and intimidated Sir Stinker, but please do elaborate as to why its any of my business that a niqqabi should have to put up with your hang up, becuase in all honesty im failing to understand it. and whilst your at it, please explain why someone should dictate who gets to touch my hand and who gets to look at my eyes.


because they feel guilty and hope that God will forgive them ignoring those commands that they don’t like?
commands that we don't like? is that the best you can come up with? you've completely made it look like a one horse race -so to speak- to support your ignorant views...you have isolated one possibly and made it sound as if it's the only one, whilst ignoring other valid ones, such as the one mentioned above. not very wise of you now, is it?

(PS I am not asking the question to irritate you I’d really like to know the answer)
you mean your other statements were intended to irritate us? i'm glad to see you are willing to point out your own mistake.
 
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you should stop making those horrible assumptions of yours. How do you know if these people are not in the process of making hijrah or have tried but failed because those so called 'islamic' countries dont like outsiders. Why do you assume that a niqaabi or bearded brother automatically means they are immigrants. What do you suggest the British government should do about those who are born in the country- force them to go back to the country they were originally from? More importantly what do you think the govt should do about those native British reverts? Coventry road, bham has a large quantity of white British muslims than any other places in Birmingham and even in UK.

You appear to have read something in my posts which is not there!

1. How do I know that people aren’t in the process of making hijrah?
I didn’t say or infer that anyone in particular was not making hijrah but as the Muslim migrant population in the UK is increasing it is a reasonable assumption that vast majority are not leaving.
2. Why do you assume that a niqaabi or bearded brother automatically means they are immigrants?
I didn’t make that assumption – why do you assume that because God commanded that Muslims must make hijrah he meant solely those who came from a Muslim country. In fact, the only Muslim on this forum who has declared his intent to make hijrah is Dawuduk who (I believe) is a native British convert and who I applauded many times for his honesty and integrity in that regard. As we have not heard from him for some time I presume he is now somewhere in the Swat valley with his ‘brothers’.
3. What do you suggest the British government should do about those who are born in the country- force them to go back to the country they were originally from?
No I most certainly do not and have never suggested any such action.
4. More importantly what do you think the govt should do about those native British reverts?
I don’t suggest anything and they don’t suggest anything, on the other hand Islamic teachings does - it suggest ney God commands hijrah.
5. Coventry road, bham has a large quantity of white British muslims than any other places in Birmingham and even in UK.
So?

You appear to have missed my point in raising this issue. The point was how do you reconcile the struggle by some to act out the letter of the text (and I gave examples like not shaking hands) but ignore commands (like hijrah) that you don’t like?
 
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:sl:
where is it? a place that implements the shariah law without caring who frowns upon it? does it exist? :'(

Gaza?

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – Police order a lingerie shop to hide its scantily clad mannequins. A judge warns female lawyers to wear head scarves in court. Beach patrols break up groups of singles and make men wear shirts.

It's all part of a new Hamas campaign to get Gazans to adhere to a strict Muslim lifestyle — and the first clear attempt by the Islamic militants to go beyond benign persuasion in doing so.

It suggests that having consolidated its hold on Gaza in the two years since it seized control by force, Hamas feels emboldened enough to extend its ideology into people's private lives.

Hamas insists compliance with its "virtue campaign" is still voluntary and simply responds to a Gazan preference for conservative ways. But the rules are vague and there are reports of alleged offenders being beaten and teachers being told to pressure girls to wear head scarves.

The campaign highlights the differing trajectories of the West Bank and Gaza — the two parts of the Palestinian state that the Obama administration hopes to midwife. Washington's efforts move into higher gear this week with visits by U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates and three top U.S. diplomats.

While Hamas pushes its dress code and Gaza remains impoverished under international embargo, West Bankers are enjoying an economic revival fed by foreign aid. Although most are conservative, there's more tolerance for a fairly large secular minority.

The West Bank's dominant party, Fatah, is making an attempt at a comeback, after suffering a stinging election defeat at the hands of Hamas in 2006.

Next week, Fatah will hold its first convention in 20 years, hoping to show that it has reformed itself, has shed its corruption-tainted image and makes an attractive alternative to Hamas.

Hamas, known for its keen sense of public opinion, pledged after its June 2007 takeover to refrain from imposing Islamic ways.

That is changing, says Khalil Abu Shammala, a human rights activist in Gaza.

"There are attempts to Islamize this society," he said. Hamas' denials "contradict what we see on the street."

The "virtue campaign" is being spread by the Religious Affairs Ministry in a list of do's and don'ts that feature on posters and in mosque sermons. It also calls for gender separation at wedding parties and tells teens to shun pop music with suggestive lyrics. "We have to encourage people to be virtuous and keep them away from sin," said Abdullah Abu Jarbou, the deputy religious affairs minister.

Another Gaza human rights activist, Hamdi Shakour, blamed the border blockade imposed by Israel and Egypt after Hamas ousted the territory's Fatah rulers. He said isolation has bred "extremism and dark ideas."

Gaza maintains small islands of secularism. Foreigners are rarely harassed, and Gaza women in stylish clothes and hairdos, many of them Muslims, frequent a half-dozen upmarket cafes and restaurants.

But Abdel Raouf Halabi, Gaza's chief supreme court judge, this month ordered female lawyers to wear head scarves and dark robes or be barred from courtrooms when their work resumes Sept. 1. "We will not allow people to ruin morals," he explained.

Only about 10 of some 150 female lawyers are affected, reflecting how deeply Islamic values already prevail. One of the unscarved is Subhiya Juma, who said the ruling "is taking away our personal freedom."

Juma said she would not wear a head scarf and hoped a public outcry would pressure Hamas officials to withdraw the order.

In government schools, head scarves for female students are supposed to be optional. But one high school has made robes and head scarves a condition for enrollment. Teachers are now being asked to pressure the girls to put them on, said Education Ministry spokesman Khaled Radi.

Police are enforcing the restrictions on mannequins and salesmen say they ripped off the tags on packages of panties and bras which showed women in underwear.

Other shopkeepers said they were told to remove the mannequins' heads so they don't violate the Islamic ban on copying the human form.

Enforcement is spotty and seems restricted to working-class markets. Most traders said they moved the mannequins back after police left.

Lingerie seller Mohammed Helu, 23, hid his under-clad mannequins but was allowed to display an outfit of a plunging top and miniskirt with the mannequin's head covered by a plastic bag.

On a Gaza beach, Mohammed Amta, 18, said a plainclothes security man told him to put on a shirt, saying his appearance was un-Islamic, and to remove his two silver rings and woven bracelet because they were a sign of Western culture.

A lifeguard said he was told to wear an undershirt and knee-length shorts. "They said that's how Muslims should dress," he said. He declined to be named, fearing he would lose his Hamas-provided job.

Last month, three young men walking on the beach with a female friend said they were beaten by Hamas police, detained and ordered to sign statements promising not to engage in "immoral activities."

The Hamas government condemned the beatings. But it remained silent when a Hamas leader, Younis Astal, accused U.N.-run summer camps for tens of thousands of children of spreading drug use and encouraging "obscene behavior" for teaching swimming and folklore dance.

Abu Jarbou, the deputy minister, insisted that Hamas would move gradually and not impose its views by force. Still, Islamic law is coming, he said.

"In the future, it's inevitable it will be implemented," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090728...uYXRlX3N1bW1hcnlfbGlzdARzbGsDaGFtYXNkcmVzc2Nv
 
yes, please...

No thanks. It's not going to happen. "Muslims" are dating white men/women at my work place. Some "muslim" girls are having sex with multiple men. There are muslims drinking alcohol after work. I see Asians blasting out music in their cars in Preston. It's a secular country and in my opinion it always will be. Secularism is growing at a much faster rate than any religion.
 
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Out of context - tut tut, naughty, very naughty:thumbs_do
very much in context...reread my post.
tut
tut

Gaza?
Fuc19tb3JlX2lzbGFtaWMEcG9zAzYEc2VjA3luX3BhZ2luYXRlX3N1bW1hcnlfbGlzdARzbGsDaGFtYXNkcmVzc2Nv[/url]
ill reply to that later, inshallah!

No thanks. It's not going to happen. "Muslims" are dating white men at my work place. Some "muslim" girls are having sex with multiple men. It's a secular country.
so? whose to say it cant change?
 
so? whose to say it cant change?

It's just not going to happen. In my opinion, Europe, especially Britain, is not the best of places to live for a muslim. It may not happen to you, perhaps not your kids but perhaps your grandchildren, you will see them being sucked into the culture of secularism. It is already happening. I don't agree with everything that happens here but I don't believe in being forced to follow the rules of a belief that isn't applicable to me.
 
Those Muslims, who take the extremely or literal or fundamental interpretation of Islamic text to, for example, wear the niqab and not shake hands etc., how do they get around the Islamic text that commands that they not live in the land of the muskreen and are they wearing the niqab etc., because they feel guilty and hope that God will forgive them ignoring those commands that they don’t like?

(PS I am not asking the question to irritate you I’d really like to know the answer)

The answer is that, deep down, nobody wants the government telling them how to practice their faith. That's why many Muslims like to live in countries with secular legal systems. They are then free to practice as they wish.
 
To be more specific You should say - secular liberal democracy (which is a typical english idea btw), because the classical (greek) democracy was theocratic, as the Greeks believed that the every power (also political) comes from their gods. But the system in which all elements of the Order (call it natural law or God's law) - religion,family,posession and justice - can be disputed, is a real mess system, which USA is a good example.

Which part of it is a mess? Is it the 200 years of uninterrupted peaceful transfers of power and respect for the voice of the electorate? Is it the religious freedoms enjoyed by all citizens (a direct result of church/state separation)? Is it the fact that decisions from US courts have provided guidance to the world's legal community for a century? Is it the absence of religious conflict within its borders throughout its history?

Where's the mess?

I'll show you a mess. Countries in which the government professes a religious belief. That's a good place to start - you can take it from there.
 

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