Love & Lust

[Snowflake]

I think the bro meant as in the question has nothing to do with marriage : )

love is not lust, but is just as shellfish

You can lob-ster that idea out the window


ok, interesting thought, please explain in what way? :?

 

[celina]

I think the bro meant as in the question has nothing to do with marriage : )


:?

I was tallking about it on a lawful relationship basis sister.

 

[Ali_008]

Love comes with lust, however lust alone is worthless. I hope this sounds better.

I agree with this to some extent. If it was just lust then people would not cry rivers when they get seperated from their beloved. Lust can be satisfied with anyone whereas the agony of love is only relieved when you see your beloved. Even the physical attraction that grows out of love is not lust because its human nature that when you love someone you want to hold that person close to you. Have you never seen people embracing/hugging/kissing their pets? Does that mean they lust animals :?

Love and Lust are polls apart. Love is a very powerful emotion whereas Lust is powerful but temporary. Just because these days people in love get involved in physical relationships, it doesn't mean there's no love.

 

[alcurad]

You can lob-ster that idea out the window


ok, interesting thought, please explain in what way? :?

:/

well see, you love so that it makes you feel good, how is it not selfish then..
the 'but it can't be helped, so it's genuine and bountiful' argument is even more true of lust, so it doesn't count.

 

[Snowflake]

:/

well see, you love so that it makes you feel good, how is it not selfish then..
the 'but it can't be helped, so it's genuine and bountiful' argument is even more true of lust, so it doesn't count.

I had a feeling you'd say that lol@underlined

You love someone because it makes you feel good? Hmm.. that could be true about chocolate but I can't imagine that about love. Love hurts too, but you still love. So it isn't about wanting to feel good. I don't know about other people's perception of love, but for me it's about wanting to make the other person happy cuz they mean so much to me, even though I know, they'd get more from me than I'd get from them. Do you still think there is an element of selfishness in that?

 

[alcurad]

actually that makes it even more sel-fish

you love even though it might/does hurt because you still think there is more benefit to it than harm, in the end we all have different limits, but limits they are.

this in no way detracts from love, rather being more in tune with yourself through another, sharing yourself with another, joining with them, literally and figuratively are IMHO quite beautiful expressions of selfishness and overcoming it in a way, you seek to make the other part of you so your selfishness is for them as well,, or something like that ^.

don't let anyone's words alone decide anything for you though, Love is Love, a feeling, so words and theories may explain it 'logically', but it's only in experiencing it do you understand it.

 

[Ali_008]

^^^ Bro alcurad, what you're talking about up there is lust. you lust because it makes you happy whereas when you love you can expect tonnes of pain. When lust hurts you, you can give it up but when you're in love and it starts to hurt, you're in this helpless situation where you can't do anything. You just love knowing that its hurting and you can't stop it no matter how much you want to get rid of those feelings. imsad

 

[dilkadr]

Well, my question is still unanswered.

I do not want to know the difference between love and lust.

I just want to know, dose pure love exist or not?

Or it is lust which we name as love?

In my life I have not seen a single person who is in love for the sake of love. I see everyone wanna satisfy his or her lust at back end but label it as love on front end.

Maybe my observations are not complete but its what I have observed so far.

Well, carry on. Its going great.

 

[Ali_008]

^^^ pure unconditional love does exist. thats it!!!!

I hope your question is answered.

 

[celina]

^^^ pure unconditional love does exist. thats it!!!!

I hope your question is answered.

It does exist but not in everyone, depends on the person too, some men are very greedy they wouldn't even understand unconditional love this just my opinion it might not be answering the question but its true.

 

[Muezzin]

Put it this way: You can stop lusting after someone. It's temporary, because it is solely about you. After a while, it will wear off, because you will find something else to take your fancy.

You can never truly stop loving someone, be it romantic, parental, fraternic, platonic etc. It's permanent, because it's about more than you. It never wears off, even though it might go through rough patches.

 

[Ali_008]

It does exist but not in everyone, depends on the person too, some men are very greedy they wouldn't even understand unconditional love this just my opinion it might not be answering the question but its true.

Sister the question was whether there's true love or not and the answer is yes. If people don't accept it then its their hypocrisy, evil, or whatever you wanna call it. It is most likely that when there's true love, its not gonna get acknowledged and thats when the pain and grief pops up. which is why instead of hurting ourselves by loving mortals, we must love Allah and his Rasool to keep all the exasperation away. :exhausted Thats the only investment with guaranteed returns.

 

[celina]

Sister the question was whether there's true love or not and the answer is yes. If people don't accept it then its their hypocrisy, evil, or whatever you wanna call it. It is most likely that when there's true love, its not gonna get acknowledged and thats when the pain and grief pops up. which is why instead of hurting ourselves by loving mortals, we must love Allah and his Rasool to keep all the exasperation away. :exhausted Thats the only investment with guaranteed returns.

I never said there's not true love brother, there is and I agree with you, to love we must love Allah (swt) and his messenger nabi paak (pbuh).

 

[alcurad]

When lust hurts you, you can give it up but when you're in love and it starts to hurt...You just love knowing that its hurting and you can't stop it no matter how much you want to get rid of those feelings. imsad

hmm :/

either way, all that which drives humans starts from the sexual need, once that is fulfilled we have too much time on our hands and start developing other things, even loving God is not free from the sexual nature of love, only there are so many layers one does not realize it, I mean no one loves God for being God, you don't even know what he is truly in the first place, rather you form an image of his attributes etc, a decidedly human picture, over glorified but still human since we can't think any other way.
so I'd say sexual needs and love are not the same thing, but one is an extension/evolution of the other. if we didn't have need for reproduction or the organs to do so would we even be humans?

 

[Snowflake]

actually that makes it even more sel-fish

you love even though it might/does hurt because you still think there is more benefit to it than harm, in the end we all have different limits, but limits they are.

this in no way detracts from love, rather being more in tune with yourself through another, sharing yourself with another, joining with them, literally and figuratively are IMHO quite beautiful expressions of selfishness and overcoming it in a way, you seek to make the other part of you so your selfishness is for them as well,, or something like that ^.

don't let anyone's words alone decide anything for you though, Love is Love, a feeling, so words and theories may explain it 'logically', but it's only in experiencing it do you understand it.

But the word 'selfish'is used to describe someone who wants/thinks for own self only - own own needs and reasons without any concern for the other. In love you concern yourself with the other person's concerns. You think of ways to bring them joy and ease. You support them to the best of your ability. You do these things without thinking once what you will get back. If you still believe that wanting to see someone happy is another facet of selfishness (although all dictionary definitions would disagree) then every human who has walked on this earth would be called 'selfish'. Prophets (peace be upon them) included as did they not suffer to bring us the message for our own good? So there is simply no way you can label love as a selfish need. It involves a lot of giving and sacrifice.


I also disagree with you saying that a person still loves because they see more benefit in it than harm. Wrong, wrong, wrong! lol. Firstly you don't think of benefits before falling in love. It just happens. You deal with the losses later. If you weigh up the pros and cons it's not love but trade.

hmm :/

either way, all that which drives humans starts from the sexual need, once that is fulfilled we have too much time on our hands and start developing other things, even loving God is not free from the sexual nature of love, only there are so many layers one does not realize it, I mean no one loves God for being God, you don't even know what he is truly in the first place, rather you form an image of his attributes etc, a decidedly human picture, over glorified but still human since we can't think any other way.
so I'd say sexual needs and love are not the same thing, but one is an extension/evolution of the other. if we didn't have need for reproduction or the organs to do so would we even be humans?

SubhanAllah!! I don't know where you're getting your ideas from but firstly, we are born knowing and loving Allah before we even know His attributes. That is our fitrah. So everything else you said makes no sense as we do not need to form an image of Him to love Him. And to say even loving Allah is not free from the sexual nature of love? I feel angry reading those words. How can you associate such rubbish with Allah. Please keep such ideas to yourself next time. :raging:

 

[Salahudeen]

hmm :/

either way, all that which drives humans starts from the sexual need, once that is fulfilled we have too much time on our hands and start developing other things, even loving God is not free from the sexual nature of love, only there are so many layers one does not realize it, I mean no one loves God for being God, you don't even know what he is truly in the first place, rather you form an image of his attributes etc, a decidedly human picture, over glorified but still human since we can't think any other way.
so I'd say sexual needs and love are not the same thing, but one is an extension/evolution of the other. if we didn't have need for reproduction or the organs to do so would we even be humans?

hmmm I'm going to have to disagree with you, all that drives me is when I think about jannah and narr, or when I think about the angels watching and recording. :hmm: what motivates me to behave the way I do is my aim to get to jannah. These things are what motivate and drive me not a "sexual need" I don't understand what you mean by that

do you mean behind everything we do/want sexual need is the reason, is that what you are saying???:hmm:

 

[alcurad]

eh =_=, i see i didn't make my words clearer, sorry.

what I meant was, in defining human actions, there are certain values that humans follow in all societies and civilizations:
they all begin with values that govern the need for reproduction, or more precisely the values of taste-beautiful, not beautiful and whatever lies in between-

then there are values concerning sustenance-good, bad-

then values of thought-truth and non truth-

then work-freedom and its opposite, or choice and no choice-

and finally existence itself, defined as the collection of all previous values, in short their amalgamation defines our existence. and they are quite hierarchical, for example, you can't have freedom of choice until you can differentiate between good and bad, and so on.

thus the first from which all the others proceed is the values of taste, the values that majorly guide sexuality and restrain/channel it, not that those values are only 'sexual', but they depend on it/are concerned with it.
we keep evolving, from children to half adults to fully mature, and so do our societies, from primitive and almost entirely dependent on the weather and geography to farming and permanent or seasonal villages, to cities and finally to full fledged 'civilizations'.

in that evolution, it all begins with the most basic and primal instincts, of which we call 'Fitrah'. this fitrah-if properly preserved- leads us through that five-tiered hierarchy of values, all beginning with the instincts of survival and reproduction, which decidedly take a sexual overtone in the beginning.

not that the existential values-of which concern God and that which is beyond humans-are sexual in nature, but they do depend on it since it all begins there. love is harder to pinpoint, since it involves many of them, certainly love of God is decidedly different than loving a spouse or child, but certainly there is overlap since it is all 'love'.

I hope that made sense.

 

[abu_musab461]

People often fall into the trap of thinking in the western mentality that lust is wrong and evil and lowly etc...

Because lust as we know it has always been seen out of marriage-

zina, adutary, homosexuality etc

Lust in marriage is permissible.

It might be a case that a husband and wife both feel lust for one another and this is good and pure.

not lowly and impure.

 

[alcurad]

But the word 'selfish'is used to describe someone who wants/thinks for own self only... In love you concern yourself with the other person's concerns. You think of ways to bring them joy and ease. You support them to the best of your ability. You do these things without thinking once what you will get back... Prophets (peace be upon them) included as did they not suffer to bring us the message for our own good? So there is simply no way you can label love as a selfish need. It involves a lot of giving and sacrifice.


If you weigh up the pros and cons it's not love but trade.

I am re-defining the dictionary definition here it seems:/
self benefit is a major driver of human actions, heaven and hell are clear examples of that I'd think. but of course that's not all there is to it, I simply wished to make the link between love and desire clearer.

 

[The Ruler]

I just want to know, dose pure love exist or not?

To those who experienced it, it does; to those who haven't, it does not. It's simply seeing things through various perspectives. From one who has 'loved' -whatever that may be- they know that love exists, and it takes the form of a person, an object or whatever.
... And from the perspective of one who hasn't loved, 'love' simply is a word that's spelt with an el, an o, a vee and an ee. That's all it is. Perhaps it's out there in the atmosphere swinging amogst the many air molecules, invisible to the naked eye.

Or it is lust which we name as love?

Love results in lust. I think. To differentiate between the two, simple lust gives a man a boner, and makes a woman go crazy. Love makes a woman emo, and a man on his knees asking for her hand in marriage.

In my life I have not seen a single person who is in love for the sake of love. I see everyone wanna satisfy his or her lust at back end but label it as love on front end.

You see the front end and the back end of peoples' relationships? I believe a man would normally lust after a woman if the general concensus is that she's beautiful. Lust is mostly about the body. Actually, it's probably all about the physical attributes. Whereas love, as I see it, has it's roots in character, personality... money... to mention a few.