Things in Islam I am curious about...

Greetings,
what is the 'common religion in the west. Did it say Atheist on your birth certificate,

UK birth certificates don't mention any religion, but there's no reason why you should know that.

Do I assume correctly when I suppose that even tough you chose Atheism as a way of life and perhaps came from a non-practicing family.. that your background and/or ancestry is christian?

Half Catholic, half secular. I suppose there would probably be Christians somewhere on the secular side too, but there are probably lots of other things mixed in there too. Vikings, Saxons, who knows?

I am not judging at all, my comments have nothing to do with judgment if you have followed the thread in its serial form..

It's another case of "whatever you say..."

Is that really what Christians think?

It's what some Christians think.

Given how many of them on board are after our very souls.. (Alapiana, fromgenesis, follower, phil. etc) to name a few, I think they rather think it the unadulterated word of God... I have a difficult time reconciling some of the written messages of their bible with what they actually preach!
I have only encountered this type of Christians, but given that I have also attended catholic school way back when, I haven't had a chance to meet the ones of whom you speak, and in such a case anyway I don't suspect they'd hang on an Islamic forum and discuss religion.

You probably haven't met many of them as you live in America.

That which is metophorical in the Quran is stated as such..

It's not as though every example is labelled as such, though, is it? Supposing someone decided to believe, for example, that the story of the Companions of the Cave (18:9-26) wasn't to be taken literally. Would that be kufr?

Have you not read it?

I gave up on reading it all the way through. I've probably read most of it by now in different sittings, but the four translations I've tried just don't hold my interest for long enough to get all the way through in one go.
3:7 He it is who has bestowed upon thee from on high this divine writ, containing messages that are clear in and by themselves - and these are the essence of the divine writ- as well as others that are allegorical. Now those whose hearts are given to swerving from the truth go after that part of the divine writ6 which has been expressed in allegory, seeking out [what is bound to create] confusion, and seeking [to arrive at] its final meaning [in an arbitrary manner]; but none save God knows its final meaning. Hence, those who are deeply rooted in knowledge say: "We believe in it; the whole [of the divine writ] is from our Sustainer - albeit none takes this to heart save those who are endowed with insight.

And here's one big reason why. Just look at that. ^

Anyone who thinks that is a satisfactory piece of written English needs to do some serious reading. The quality of the English is so bad in some translations that I think it's actually insulting to Islam to present what is supposed to be the word of god in such a way.

The Quran is a very intelligent book (amongst its transcendent attributes) That I find it difficult to make it an object of comparison with the bible, for more reasons than I care to go into for the purposes of this topic!

The conclusion I've come to is that the Qur'an may well be a very intelligent book, but unless I learn how to read Arabic it's impossible for me to tell.

Peace
 
Greetings,


UK birth certificates don't mention any religion, but there's no reason why you should know that.
Irrelevant as you have actually answered my Q with your subsequent comment!


Half Catholic, half secular. I suppose there would probably be Christians somewhere on the secular side too, but there are probably lots of other things mixed in there too. Vikings, Saxons, who knows?
Whether early, middle or late christendom your region of the world can't divorce itself from its religious roots
It's another case of "whatever you say..."
Don't do that, there is really no reason for you to patronize me. Don't come in the middle and assume responsibility for an ongoing dialogue that has nothing to do with you, only to be indifferent about it.. You can always walk away!


It's what some Christians think.
These are the Christians we have here.. I can only deal with the here and now, not some utopian form I am yet to encounter!
Either way, I don't see how the 'rest' would matter, secularists aren't that radical or distinctive as a sub group of any religion.

You probably haven't met many of them as you live in America.
Maybe!



It's not as though every example is labelled as such, though, is it? Supposing someone decided to believe, for example, that the story of the Companions of the Cave (18:9-26) wasn't to be taken literally. Would that be kufr?
It isn't the place of a Muslim to pass takfir on anyone, other than that I don't see anything unusual about the story it is possible to be preserved for a very long period of time, surely you've heard of cryogenics!
The verse is multi layered and takes care of its own on many levels.
There is math in the lunar calendar that even our dearly departed member 'Barney' couldn't get until I explained it to him with an article made for dummies.. further, the verse itself asks this of the reader:


18: 26 Say: "God knows best how long they remained [there]. His [alone] is the knowledge of the hidden reality of the heavens and the earth---
in other words, if you spend your time focusing on how long they have remained in the cave, you'll have missed the point entirely!

I gave up on reading it all the way through. I've probably read most of it by now in different sittings, but the four translations I've tried just don't hold my interest for long enough to get all the way through in one go.
Yes, I have read that on your other thread, which I actually thought was a new thread given the date of the last reply, and was about to offer you this:
http://communityquran.com/quran/translate/ASD/surah/1

for its ease and contemporary style but decided it against it, given your disinterest!
Nonetheless, I can't expect you to gauge a topic regarding the Quran if you've lost interest, you understand then why the comments you pass on some verses such as the above, can't hold any value?!

And here's one big reason why. Just look at that. ^Anyone who thinks that is a satisfactory piece of written English needs to do some serious reading. The quality of the English is so bad in some translations that I think it's actually insulting to Islam to present what is supposed to be the word of god in such a way.
Well, it isn't Arabic, but I think he (Leopold Weiss) has done an excellent job otherwise, I might not care for all his commentaries and feel that he loans verses his own rendition to evoke the essence rather than the literal word. You certainly must expect that, something will be lost to you in the translation.
I love Antonio Machado's poetry, however, I don't read nor understand Spanish, thus I must be content with the Robert Bly's rendition accepting that probably much will be lost.
Of course I can't treat a poetry book with the same value I do a book that is said to be the divine writ. Still I care enough to make an effort. And I find that given the number of people who convert just out of reading the Quran and listening to it, that, the problem might indeed lie with you and not the translations!
When I wasn't a practicing Muslim, every verse I read seemed to me about a punishment of some sort .. people often find exactly what they seek...
for instance, when you are set out to do research say in drug research and you are set out to prove that a particular drug works really well if done incorrectly (which is very possible), chances are you'll find exactly what you are looking for. Not because it is true, but because of bias and confounders going into it.





The conclusion I've come to is that the Qur'an may well be a very intelligent book, but unless I learn how to read Arabic it's impossible for me to tell.

Peace
You are certainly under no obligation to read or learn it, I merely expressed my lack of interest in discussing the book with someone who hasn't read it, surely even you can understand how this choice would disqualify you from any book club?!

all the best
 
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These are the Christians we have here.. I can only deal with the here and now, not some utopian form I am yet to encounter!


Makes me wonder, does this board draw a particular type of Muslim?

Are the views expressed here representative of Islam around the world (there are a number of people form different nationalities represented after all) or is it of just one particular way of thinking or approaching Islam?
 
Makes me wonder, does this board draw a particular type of Muslim?

Are the views expressed here representative of Islam around the world (there are a number of people form different nationalities represented after all) or is it of just one particular way of thinking or approaching Islam?


There is no room for nationalities in Islam, we are one ummah...

[3:110] Ye are the best of Peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had Faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have Faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.
 
Makes me wonder, does this board draw a particular type of Muslim?

Are the views expressed here representative of Islam around the world (there are a number of people form different nationalities represented after all) or is it of just one particular way of thinking or approaching Islam?

While I can't speak for every single post, the majority of the views expressed here by Muslims are that of orthodox Islam. Of course there are different scholarly opinions about many issues, which are very much reflected here amongst the different members. In terms of 'Aqeeda (creed or theology), you will find this board adhering very much to the true way of Islam.

Sister Skye is right though: there is no "cultural" Islam. There is one Islam, and that is the way of the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and what he taught.
 
There is no room for nationalities in Islam, we are one ummah...

[3:110] Ye are the best of Peoples, evolved for mankind, enjoining what is right, forbidding what is wrong, and believing in Allah. If only the People of the Book had Faith, it were best for them: among them are some who have Faith, but most of them are perverted transgressors.

So, the whole concept of national or political identities is really foreign to your way of thinking?


Is that universally true throughout the Ummah?
 
So, the whole concept of national or political identities is really foreign to your way of thinking?


Is that universally true throughout the Ummah?

I can't speak for the whole ummah, but that, is exactly what Islam brought.. unity and it rid us of nationalism and false pride.. those who choose that route have transgressed against the laws of God and their very souls.. we can only pray that they realize the error in their ways before it is too late.. but generally that is a common feeling amongst the majority of Muslims ( and God is with majority) you can see it, feel it and sense it especially during Ramadan and pilgrimage season, when folks establish their covenant with God anew...
 
Cool. Thanks for sharing.

It's supposed to be like that within Christianity as well -- each a member of the "body of Christ", but no member being above another. But it doesn't always work out the way it is supposed to.
 
Genesis 3:16[/URL] Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them.

But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God."

1 Cor.14:34-36[/URL] "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church."

Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing."

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing

1 Pet.3:1[/URL] "Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands."

doesn't seem to me like women have any rights in Christianity, let alone in a court of law!
all the best

As usual you only paint one side of the story. What am I supposed to do now, trawl through the Qu'ran and Hadith looking for bits where woman are inferior or what men are permitted to do to women?

The question I set was about inequalities in law within Islam and whether there are inequalities anywhere else has no relevance. Whether Islam preserves these inequalities rather that try to remove them or are they eternally the truth?

You ask often about keeping the Biblical laws, well in the Torah, which you say you believe, there are about 631 laws or rules but many are outdated, museum pieces because the circumstances or institutions they covered no longer exist and have not existed for centuries. Is this not a perfectly logical view and therefore why does it not apply to Islam?
 
:sl:

If moon is sighted in neighbouring country ( time zone is almost same ) , then is it permitted for Muslims in other country to start fasting ? I want to know the ans according to hanafi madhab.
 
As usual you only paint one side of the story. What am I supposed to do now, trawl through the Qu'ran and Hadith looking for bits where woman are inferior or what men are permitted to do to women?
Go ahead, you do that!

The question I set was about inequalities in law within Islam and whether there are inequalities anywhere else has no relevance. Whether Islam preserves these inequalities rather that try to remove them or are they eternally the truth?
There are no 'inequalities' in Islam, you fail to distinguish between sameness and equality. In Islam only your piety grants you points, not color nor gender. What is required of men and women to reach the same goal might differ but not all too greatly. Different responsibilities for different abilities!

You ask often about keeping the Biblical laws, well in the Torah, which you say you believe, there are about 631 laws or rules but many are outdated, museum pieces because the circumstances or institutions they covered no longer exist and have not existed for centuries. Is this not a perfectly logical view and therefore why does it not apply to Islam?

We don't have any antiquated laws.. perhaps that is what the problem is, you shelf your religion and do what feels good, because it is all about how you feel.
I feel really passionate about science, but passion without hard work means zilch, you really can't butter your bread with it.


by the way, do you read any links given you at all? or just desire to comment out of whim as you are so accustomed on every thread?

all the best
 
Here is something I am curious about .
I have been lead to believe that the actual punishment for adultery should be just a good flogging and not stoning to death.

So in those cases where stoning to death for adultery has really occurred , what happens to the victim and what happens ( or should happen ) to the stone throwers, as it would appear that they have committed a great sin.
 
Here is something I am curious about .
I have been lead to believe that the actual punishment for adultery should be just a good flogging and not stoning to death.

So in those cases where stoning to death for adultery has really occurred , what happens to the victim and what happens ( or should happen ) to the stone throwers, as it would appear that they have committed a great sin.

Just flogging is the punishment for pre-marital sex and stoning-to-death is for extra-marital sex. It is the expiation for the sin. If the sinner really regrets his sin and gets stoned to death in his regret then Allah might forgive him. If he doesn't and just dies because people caught him having sex and punished him then it is just this world's punishment for him and he'll have more of it in the afterlife. As to those people who carried out the punishment, they did nothing wrong and so there's nothing against them.
 
Just flogging is the punishment for pre-marital sex and stoning-to-death is for extra-marital sex. It is the expiation for the sin. If the sinner really regrets his sin and gets stoned to death in his regret then Allah might forgive him. If he doesn't and just dies because people caught him having sex and punished him then it is just this world's punishment for him and he'll have more of it in the afterlife. As to those people who carried out the punishment, they did nothing wrong and so there's nothing against them.

Is this really a true explanation or is this guy taking the mickey out of me ?
 
I sort of have the same degree of incredulity that does barrio above.

It is the expiation for the sin. If the sinner really regrets his sin and gets stoned to death in his regret then Allah might forgive him.

So, would a person who committed adulter, realized his/her sin, and became a sincere follower of Islam want to actually get stoned in order to have his/her sins expiated? Do people actually volunteer for this, or it this something that works better in theory than in practice?
 
Go ahead, you do that! There are no 'inequalities' in Islam, you fail to distinguish between sameness and equality. In Islam only your piety grants you points, not color nor gender. What is required of men and women to reach the same goal might differ but not all too greatly. Different responsibilities for different abilities!

We don't have any antiquated laws.. perhaps that is what the problem is, you shelf your religion and do what feels good, because it is all about how you feel. I feel really passionate about science, but passion without hard work means zilch, you really can't butter your bread with it. By the way, do you read any links given you at all? or just desire to comment out of whim as you are so accustomed on every thread? all the best
1. Dawood Edition
Women are your fields go, then into your fields whence you please ... 2:223

Women shall with justice have rights similar to those exercised against them, although men have a status above women .. 2:226

Bukhari: Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you." (Bukhari Book 2, Hadith 28)

2. Inequalities - of course there are inequalities in Islamic law and to kid yourself otherwise is to ignore both Qu'ran and the Hadith. I don't know what you definition of inequality is but why should a man be allowed to have up to 4 wives but a women cannot have 4 husbands, in the above verse we have the word status used, a man may buy as many slaves as he wants and can have sexual relations with all female slaves, Apostasy, zina etc. Have you ever looked at 5:69 or have the Ulema changed its meaning so if your not a Muslim you are 'Outside' so treated differently.

3. Of course you have antiquated laws: what about slavery is that outdated or the enumerable laws on property ownership that could never have any use in the modern world? You say you are passionate about science but would you hold on to principles or practices that have long been show to be useless or outdated?

PS - Yes I follow the links but when they lead to several others and dozens of pages I like 99.9999% of people who use this board decide it is not worth it. What value would it be to a student when he asks his professor a question to be told go and read 10 books? If those who post cannot be bothered to state their point concisely and lucidly then they don't deserve much of a hearing do they?
 
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1. Dawood Edition
Women are your fields go, then into your fields whence you please ... 2:223

Women shall with justice have rights similar to those exercised against them, although men have a status above women .. 2:226

Bukhari: Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you." (Bukhari Book 2, Hadith 28)

I don't get your point, where exactly is the inequality?

2. Inequalities - of course there are inequalities in Islamic law and to kid yourself otherwise is to ignore both Qu'ran and the Hadith. I don't know what you definition of inequality is but why should a man be allowed to have up to 4 wives but a women cannot have 4 husbands, in the above verse we have the word status used, a man may buy as many slaves as he wants and can have sexual relations with all female slaves, Apostasy, zina etc. Have you ever looked at 5:69 or have the Ulema changed its meaning so if your not a Muslim you are 'Outside' so treated differently.

1)In judaism multiple wives are allowed much more than 4, so is in christianity, Islam was the first religion to limit the number of wives to 4.
2)In both Judaism and Islam and christianity and the woman is not allowed to marry more than one husband(though in Hinduism a woman can marry more).
3)A woman can have as many slaves as she pleases.
4)5:69, you obviously display your ignorance about it, until you read more about it I won't discuss it.
 
1. Dawood Edition
Women are your fields go, then into your fields whence you please ... 2:223

Women shall with justice have rights similar to those exercised against them, although men have a status above women .. 2:226

Bukhari: Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you." (Bukhari Book 2, Hadith 28)

I don't get your point, where exactly is the inequality?

2. Inequalities - of course there are inequalities in Islamic law and to kid yourself otherwise is to ignore both Qu'ran and the Hadith. I don't know what you definition of inequality is but why should a man be allowed to have up to 4 wives but a women cannot have 4 husbands, in the above verse we have the word status used, a man may buy as many slaves as he wants and can have sexual relations with all female slaves, Apostasy, zina etc. Have you ever looked at 5:69 or have the Ulema changed its meaning so if your not a Muslim you are 'Outside' so treated differently.

1)In judaism multiple wives are allowed much more than 4, so is in christianity, Islam was the first religion to limit the number of wives to 4.
2)In both Judaism and Islam and christianity and the woman is not allowed to marry more than one husband(though in Hinduism a woman can marry more).
3)A woman can have as many slaves as she pleases.
4)5:69, you obviously display your ignorance about it, until you read more about it I won't discuss it.


I suggest you READ the posts that mine was a reply to. The first part is in response to a challenge from Skye.

I cannot say what you might mean by inequality but most of us regard it as unequal of different treatment and here on the basis of sex.

You not me show ignorance, firstly, it is no relevance whatever what Chrsitainitry or Judaism does, we are not talking about those we are talking about Islam and in law does it endorse inequalities and I have shown that it does. I do not like such inequalities but you must come to your own decision.

Because Islam limited wives to 4 does not mean 4 wives is a good thing and something to be desired in the modern world but clearly the woman is discriminated against. Take item 3, can a woman who has slaves have sexual relations with any male slave she pleases?

With regard to 5:69 I suggest you read Mohammed Charfi (Professor of Law in Tunis) ISBN 1-84277-511-1 page 45 then we can discuss what it means?
 
With regard to 5:69 I suggest you read Mohammed Charfi (Professor of Law in Tunis) ISBN 1-84277-511-1 page 45 then we can discuss what it means?[/COLOR]

I don't have access to this book, maybe you can quote us what he said.
Unless you know what "asbab el nuzool"(reasons for revelation of particular verses) is, you will remain ignorant about the topic.
 
1. Dawood Edition
Women are your fields go, then into your fields whence you please ... 2:223


indeed.. but also men are our fields as we are theirs .. have you read the last sermon?
let me quote to help you along:

O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/lastserm.HTM

the term
"حرث" is used there as well..


Women shall with justice have rights similar to those exercised against them, although men have a status above women .. 2:226
fascinating .. but just for the record this is what 2:226 actually says:

2:226 Those who take an oath that they will not approach their wives shall have four months of grace; and if they go back [on their oath] - behold, God is much-forgiving, a dispenser of grace.



Just so when you are leeching from your evangelists websites, have them correct it for God's sake, just so you are not publicly humiliated, or do yourself a favor and check it against the Quran

perhaps what you were looking for is 228?
in which case I recommend you quote in full:

[2:228] And the divorced women shall undergo, without remarrying a waiting-period of three monthly courses: for it is not lawful for them to conceal what God may have created in their wombs, if they believe in God and the Last Day. And during this period their husbands are fully entitled to take them back, if they desire reconciliation; but, in accordance with justice, the rights of the wives [with regard to their husbands] are equal to the [husbands'] rights with regard to them, although men have precedence over them [in this respect].And God is almighty, wise.

The Status of Woman in Islam

Question
As-Salamu `Alaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh. Could you please shed more light on the status of woman in Islam in detail. Jazakum Allahu Khayran.

Date
07/Mar/2007

Name of Counsellor

Topic
Misconceptions
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Answer
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Wa`alaykum As-Salamu Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh.

In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.

All praise and thanks are due to Allah, and peace and blessings be upon His Messenger.

Dear questioner! Thanks for your good question and the great confidence you place in us and we hope our humble efforts meet your great expectations.

The status of women in Islam is not a new issue. The position of Islam on this issue is hotly debated. In what follows we provide a brief and authentic exposition of what Islam stands for in this regard.
The status of woman in Islam constitutes no problem. The attitude of the Qur'an and the early Muslims bear witness to the fact that woman is, at least, as vital to life as man himself, and that she is not inferior to him nor is she one of the lower species. Had it not been for the impact of foreign cultures and alien influences, this question would have never arisen among the Muslims. The status of woman was taken for granted to be equal to that of man. It was, of course, a matter of fact, and no one, then, considered it as a problem at all.

In order to understand what Islam has established for woman, there is no need to deplore her plight in the pre-Islamic era or in the modern world of today. Islam has given woman rights and privileges, which she has never enjoyed under other religious or constitutional systems. This can be understood when the matter is studied as a whole in a comparative manner, rather than partially. The rights and responsibilities of a woman are equal to those of a man but they are not necessarily identical with them. Equality and sameness are two quite different things. This difference is understandable because man and woman are not identical but they are created equals. With this distinction in mind, There is no problem. It is almost impossible to find even two identical men or women.

This distinction between equality and sameness is of paramount importance. Equality is desirable, just and fair; but sameness is not. People are not created identical but they are created equals. With this distinction in mind, there is no room to imagine that woman is inferior to man. There is no ground to assume that she is less important than he just because her rights are not identically the same as his. Had her status been identical with his, she would have been simply a duplicate of him, which she is not. The fact that Islam gives her equal rights - but not identical - shows that it takes her into due consideration, acknowledges her, and recognizes her independent personality.

It is not the tone of Islam that brands woman as the product of the devil or the seed of evil. Nor does the Qur'an place man as the dominant lord of woman who has no choice but to surrender to his dominance. Nor was it Islam that introduced the question of whether or not woman has any soul in her. Never in the history of Islam has any Muslim doubted the human status of woman or her possession of soul and other fine spiritual qualities. Unlike other popular beliefs, Islam does not blame Eve alone for the Original Sin. The Qur'an makes it very clear that both Adam and Eve were tempted; that they both sinned; that Allah's pardon was granted to both after their repentance; and that Allah addressed them jointly. Allah Almighty says:

(And We said: O Adam! Dwell thou and thy wife in the Garden, and eat ye freely (of the fruits) thereof where ye will; but come not nigh this tree lest ye become wrongdoers. But Satan caused them to deflect therefrom and expelled them from the (happy) state in which they were; and We said: Fall down, one of you a foe unto the other! There shall be for you on earth a habitation and provision for a time. Then Adam received from his Lord words (of revelation), and He relented toward him. Lo! He is the Relenting the Merciful. We said: Go down, all of you, from hence; but verily there cometh unto you from Me a guidance; and whoso followeth My guidance, there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.) (Al-Baqarah 2: 36-38)

In fact the Qur'an gives the impression that Adam was more to blame for that First Sin from which emerged prejudice against woman and suspicion of her deeds. But Islam does not justify such prejudice or suspicion because both Adam and Eve were equally in error, and if we are to blame Eve we should blame Adam as much or even more.

The status of woman in Islam is something unique, something novel, something that has no similarity in any other system. If we look to the Eastern Communist world or to the democratic nations, we find that woman is not really in a happy position. Her status is not enviable. She has to work so hard to live, and sometimes she may be doing the same job that a man does but her wage is less than his. She enjoys a kind of liberty which in some cases amounts to libertinism. To get to where she is nowadays, woman struggled hard for decades and centuries. To gain the right of learning and the freedom of work and earning, she had to offer painful sacrifices and give up many of her natural rights. To establish her status as a human being possessing a soul, she paid heavily. Yet in spite of all these costly sacrifices and painful struggles, she has not acquired what Islam has established by a Divine decree for the Muslim woman.

The rights of woman of modern times were not granted voluntarily or out of kindness to the female. Modern woman reached her present position by force, and not through natural processes or mutual consent or Divine teachings. She had to force her way, and various circumstances came to her aid. Shortage of manpower during wars, pressure of economic needs and requirements of industrial developments forced woman to get out of her home - to work, to learn, to struggle for her livelihood, to appear as an equal to man, to run her race in the course of life side by side with him. She was forced by circumstances and in turn she forced herself through and acquired her new status. Whether all women were pleased with these circumstances being on their side, and whether they are happy and satisfied with the results of this course is a different matter. But the fact remains that whatever rights modern woman enjoys fall short of those of her Muslim counterpart.

What Islam has established for woman is that which suits her nature, gives her full security and protects her against disgraceful circumstances and uncertain channels of life. We do not need here to elaborate on the status of modern woman and the risks she runs to make her living or establish herself. We do not even need to explore the miseries and setbacks that encircle her as a result of the so-called rights of woman. Nor do we intend to manipulate the situation of many unhappy homes which break because of the very "freedom" and "rights" of which modern woman is proud. Most women today exercise the right of freedom to go out independently, to work and earn, to pretend to be equal to man, but this, sadly enough, is at the expense of their families. This all known and obvious. What is not known is the status of woman in Islam.

An attempt will be made in the following passages to sum up the attitude of Islam with regard to woman:

1- Woman is recognized by Islam as a full and equal partner of man in the procreation of humankind. He is the father; she is the mother, and both are essential for life. Her role is not less vital than his. By this partnership she has an equal share in every aspect; she is entitled to equal rights; she undertakes equal responsibilities, and in her there are as many qualities and as much humanity as there are in her partner.

To this equal partnership in the reproduction of human kind Allah says:

(O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made `you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware.) (Al-Hujurat 49: 13)

2- She is equal to man in bearing personal and common responsibilities and in receiving rewards for her deeds. She is acknowledged as an independent personality, in possession of human qualities and worthy of spiritual aspirations. Her human nature is neither inferior to nor deviant from that of man. Both are members of one another. Allah Almighty says:

(And their Lord hath heard them (and He saith): Lo! I suffer not the work of any worker, male or female, to be lost. Ye proceed one from another…) (Aal `Imran 3: 195)

3- She is equal to man in the pursuit of education and knowledge. When Islam enjoins the seeking of knowledge upon Muslims, it makes no distinction between man and woman. Almost fourteen centuries ago, Muhammad declared that the pursuit of knowledge is incumbent on every Muslim male and female. This declaration was very clear and was implemented by Muslims throughout history.

4- She is entitled to freedom of expression as much as man is. Her sound opinions are taken into consideration and cannot be disregarded just because she happen to belong to the female sex. It is reported in the Qur'an and history that woman not only expressed her opinion freely but also argued and participated in serious discussions with the Prophet himself as well as with other Muslim leaders. Allah Almighty says:

(Allah hath heard the saying of her that disputeth with thee (Muhammad) concerning her husband, and complaineth unto Allah. And Allah heareth your colloquy. Lo! Allah is Nearer, Knower. Such of you as put away your wives (by saying they are as their mothers) They are not their mothers; none are their mothers except those who gave them birth they indeed utter an ill word and a lie. And lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. Those who put away their wives (by saying they are as their mothers) and afterward would go back on that which they have said; (the penalty) in that case (is) the freeing of a slave before they touch one another. Unto this ye are exhorted; and Allah is informed of what ye do.) (Al-Mujadalah 58: 1-4)

Besides there were occasions when Muslim women expressed their views on legislative matters of public interest, and stood in opposition to the Caliphs, who then accepted the sound arguments of these women. A specific example took place during the Caliphate of `Umar Ibn Al-Khattab, may Allah be pleased with him.

5- Historical records show that women participated in public life with the early Muslims, especially in times of emergencies. Women used to accompany the Muslim armies engaged in battles to nurse the wounded, prepare supplies, serve the warriors, and so on. They were not shut behind iron bars or considered worthless creatures and deprived of souls.

6- Islam grants woman equal rights to contract, to enterprise, to earn and possess independently. Her life, her property, her honor are as sacred as those of man. If she commits any offense, her penalty is no less or more than of man's in a similar case. If she is wronged or harmed, she gets due compensations equal to what a man in her position would get. Allah Almighty says:

(O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female. And for him who is forgiven somewhat by his (injured) brother, prosecution according to usage and payment unto him in kindness. This is alleviation and a mercy from your Lord. He who transgresseth after this will have a painful doom.) (Al-Baqarah 2: 195)

7- Islam does not state these rights in a statistical form and then relax. It has taken all measures to safeguard them and put them into practice as integral articles of Faith. It never tolerates those who are inclined to prejudice against woman or discrimination between man and woman. Time and again, the Qur'an reproaches those who used to believe woman to be inferior to man. Allah Almighty says:

(And they assign unto Allah daughters. Be He glorified! and unto themselves what they desire; When if one of them receiveth tidings of the birth of a female, his face remaineth darkened, and he is wroth inwardly. He bideth himself from the folk because of the evil of that whereof he hath bad tidings, (asking himself): Shall he keep it in contempt, or bury it beneath the dust. Verily evil is their judgment.) (An-Nahl 16: 57-59)

8- Apart from recognition of woman as an independent human being acknowledged as equally essential for the survival of humanity, Islam has given her a share of inheritance. Before Islam, she was not only deprived of that share but was herself considered as property to be inherited by man. Out of that transferable property Islam made an heir, acknowledging the inherent human qualifies in woman. Whether she is a wife or mother, a sister or daughter, she receives a certain share of the deceased kin's property, a share which depends on her degree of relationship to the deceased and the number of heirs. This share is hers, and no one can take it away or disinherit her. Even if the deceased wishes to deprive her by making a will to other relations or in favor of any other cause, the Law will not allow him to do so. Any proprietor is permitted to make his will within the limit of one-third of his property, so he may not affect the rights of his heirs, men and women. In the case of inheritance, the question of quality and sameness is fully applicable. In principle, both man and woman are equally entitled to inherit the property of the deceased relations but the portions they get may vary. In some instances man receives two shares whereas woman gets one only. This no sign of giving preference or supremacy to man over woman. The reasons why man gets more in these particular instances may be classified as follows:

1- First man, is the person solely responsible for the complete maintenance of his wife, his family and any other needy relations. It is his duty by Law to assume all financial responsibilities and maintain his dependents adequately. It is also his duty to contribute financially to all good causes in his society. All financial burdens are borne by him alone.

2- Secondly, in contrast, woman has no financial responsibilities whatsoever except very little of her personal expenses, the high luxurious things that she likes to have. She is financially secure and provided for. If she is a wife, her husband is the provider; if she is a mother, it is the son; if she is a daughter, it is the father; if she is a sister; it is the brother, and so on. If she has no relations on whom she can depend, then there is no question of inheritance because there is nothing to inherit and there is no one to bequeath anything to her. However, she will not be left to starve, maintenance of such a woman is the responsibility of the society as a whole, the state. She may be given aid or a job to earn her living, and whatever money she makes will be hers. She is not responsible for the maintenance of anybody else beside herself. If there is a man in her position, he would still be responsible for his family and possibly any of his relations who need his help. So, in the hardest situation her financial responsibility is limited, while his is unlimited.

3- Thirdly, when a woman gets less than a man does, she is not actually deprived of anything that she has worked for. The property inherited is not the result of her earning or her endeavors. It is something coming to them from a neutral source, something addition-al or extra. It is something that neither man or woman struggled for. It is a sort of aid, and any aid has to be distributed according to the urgent needs and responsibilities especially when the distribution is regulated by the Law of Allah.

4- Now, we have a male heir, on one side, burdened with all kinds of financial responsibilities and liabilities. We have, on the other side, a female heir with no financial responsibilities at all or at most with very little of it. In between we have some property and aid to redistribute by way of inheritance. If we deprive the female completely, it would be unjust to her because she is related to the deceased. Likewise, if we always give her a share equal to the man's, it would be unjust to him. So, instead of doing injustice to either side, Islam gives the man a larger portion of the inherited property to help him to meet his family needs and social responsibilities. At the same time, Islam has not forgotten her altogether, but has given her a portion to satisfy her very personal needs. In fact, Islam in this respect is being more kind to her than to him. Here we can say that when taken as a whole the rights of woman are equal to those of man although not necessarily identical. Allah Almighty says:

(Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females, and if there be women more than two, then theirs is two-thirds of the inheritance, and if there be one (only) then the half. And to his parents a sixth of the inheritance, if he have a son; and if he have no son and his parents are his heirs, then to his mother appertaineth the third; and if he have brethren, then to his mother appertaineth the sixth, after any legacy he may have bequeathed, or debt (hath been paid). Your parents or your children: Ye know not which of them is nearer unto you in usefulness. It is an injunction from Allah. Lo! Allah is Knower, rise.) (An-Nisaa' 4: 11)

1- Woman enjoys certain privileges of which man is deprived. She is exempt from some religious duties, i.e., prayers and fasting, in her regular periods and at times of confinement. She is exempt from all financial liabilities. As a mother, she enjoys more recognition and higher honor in the sight of Allah. Allah Almighty says:

(And We have enjoined upon man concerning his parents. His mother beareth him in weakness upon weakness, and his weaning is in two years. Give thanks unto Me and unto thy parents. Unto Me is the journeying.) (Luqman 31: 14)

The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, acknowledged this honor when he declared that Paradise is under the feet of the mothers. She is entitled to three-fourths of the son's love and kindness with one-fourth left for their father. As a wife she is entitled to demand of her prospective husband a suitable dowry that will be her own. She is entitled to complete provision and total maintenance by the husband. She does not have to work or share with her husband the family expenses. She is free to retain, after marriage, whatever she possessed before it, and the husband has no right whatsoever to any of her belongings. As a daughter or sister she is entitled to security and provision by the father and brother respectively. That is her privilege. If she wishes to work or be self-supporting and participate in handling the family responsibilities, she is quite free to do so, provided her integrity and honor are safeguarded.

2- The standing of woman in prayers behind man does not indicate in any sense that she is inferior to him. Woman, as already mentioned, is exempt from attending congregational prayers which are obligatory on man. But if she does attend she stands in separate lines made up of women exclusively. This is a regulation of discipline in prayers, and not a classification of importance. In men's rows the head of state stands shoulder to shoulder to the pauper. Men of the highest ranks in society stand in prayer side by side with other men of the lowest ranks. The order of lines in prayers is introduced to help every one to concentrate in his meditation. It is very important because Muslim prayers are not simply chanting or the sing-a-song type. They involve actions, motions, standing, bowing, prostration, etc. So if men mix with women in the same lines, it is possible that something disturbing or distracting may happen. The mind will become occupied by something alien to prayer and derailed from the clear path of mediation. The result will be a loss of the purpose of prayers, besides an offense of adultery committed by the eye, because the eye-by looking at forbidden things - can be guilty of adultery as much as the heart itself. Moreover, no Muslim man or woman is allowed during prayers to touch the body of another person of the opposite sex. If men and women stand side by side in prayer they cannot avoid touching each other. Furthermore, when a woman is praying in front of a man or beside him, it is very likely that any part of her dressed body may become uncovered after a certain motion of bowing or prostrating. The man's eye may happen to be looking at the uncovered part, with the result that she will be embarrassed and he will be exposed to distraction or possibly evil thoughts. So, to avoid any embarrassment and distraction to help concentrate on mediation and pure thoughts, to maintain harmony and order among worshippers, to fulfill the true purposes of prayers, Islam has ordained the organization of rows, whereby men stand in front lines, and women behind the children. Anyone with some knowledge of the nature and purpose of Muslim prayers can readily understand the wisdom of organizing the lines of worshippers in this manner.

3- The Muslim woman is always associated with an old tradition known as the "veil". It is Islamic that the woman should beautify herself with the veil of honor, dignity, chastity, purity and integrity. She should refrain from all deeds and gestures that might stir the passions of people other than her legitimate husband or cause evil suspicion of her morality. She is warned not to display her charms or expose her physical attractions before strangers. The veil, which she must put on, is one that can save her soul from weakness, her mind from indulgence, her eyes from lustful looks, and her personality from demoralization. Islam is most concerned with the integrity of woman, with the safeguarding of her morals and morale and with the protection of her character and personality

4- By now it is clear that the status of woman in Islam is unprecedentedly high and realistically suitable to her nature. Her rights and duties are equal to those of man but not necessarily or absolutely identical with them. If she is deprived of one thing in some aspect, she is fully compensated for it with more things in many other aspects. The fact that she belongs to the female sex has no bearing on her human status or independent personality, and it is no basis for justification of prejudice against her or injustice to her person. Islam gives her as much as is required of her. Her rights match beautifully with her duties. The balance between rights and duties is maintained, and no side overweighs the other. The whole status of woman is given clearly in the Qur'an. Allah Almighty says:

(Women who are divorced shall wait, keeping themselves apart, three (monthly) courses. And it is not lawful for them that they should conceal that which Allah hath created in their wombs if they are believers in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands would do better to take them back in that case if they desire a reconciliation. And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them. Allah is Mighty, Wise.) (Al-Baqarah 2: 228)

This degree is not a title of supremacy or an authorization of dominance over her. It is to correspond with the extra responsibilities of man and give him some compensation for his unlimited liabilities. The above-mentioned verse is always interpreted in the light of another. Allah Almighty says:

(Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath men the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great.) (An-Nisaa' 4: 34)

It is these extra responsibilities that give man a degree over woman in some economic aspects. It is not a higher degree in humanity or in character. Nor is it a dominance of one over the other or suppression of one by the other. It is a distribution of Allah's abundance according to the needs of the nature of which Allah is the Maker. And He knows best what is good for woman and what is good for man. Allah is absolutely true when He says:

(O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from them twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women. Be careful of your duty toward Allah in Whom ye claim ( your rights ) of one another, and toward the wombs (that bare you ). Lo! Allah hath been a Watcher over you.) (An-Nisaa' 4: 1)​
Again, you seem to think that equality and sameness are a catch-all phrase.. if that were the case, men and women should compete against each other in the Olympics.. women shouldn't be taking time off for maternity leave ..
you should read this:

FemaleBrain2-1.gif


written by a female neurologist.. men and women are wired differently.. and that is recognized medically as well religiously.. It has no bearing on the status or reward of a woman in Islam.. certainly their souls aren't akin to animals in Islam as they were so considered before secularization of Christianity and modern science!
Bukhari: Ibn 'Abbas: The Prophet said: "I was shown the Hell-fire and that the majority of its dwellers were women who were ungrateful." It was asked, "Do they disbelieve in Allah?" (or are they ungrateful to Allah?) He replied, "They are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good (charitable deeds) done to them. If you have always been good (benevolent) to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, 'I have never received any good from you." (Bukhari Book 2, Hadith 28)
The majority of dwellers in heaven are also women.. why do you neglect to do proper research?

قال شيخ ابن تيمية كما في مجموع الفتاوى (6/432) (( لِأَنَّ النِّسَاءَ أَكْثَرُ مِنْ الرِّجَالِ إذْ قَدْ صَحَّ أَنَّهُنَّ أَكْثَرُ أَهْلِ النَّارِ وَقَدْ صَحَّ لِكُلِّ رَجُلٍ مِنْ أَهْلِ الْجَنَّةِ زَوْجَتَانِ مِنْ الْإِنْسِيَّاتِ سِوَى الْحُورِ الْعِينِ وَذَلِكَ لِأَنَّ مَنْ فِي الْجَنَّةِ مِنْ النِّسَاءِ أَكْثَرُ مِنْ الرِّجَالِ وَكَذَلِكَ فِي النَّارِ فَيَكُونُ الْخَلْقُ مِنْهُمْ أَكْثَرَ ))

At the end of times women will outnumber men by 50:1 it will be the signs of the great signs of the end.. unrighteous women go to hell, righteous women will go to heaven.. For some reason you seem to think this applies to Muslim women, and the rest of women are exempt from it, when in fact (I don't want to make judgment for God) technically it is your loosely moraled ungrateful naked women that will make up the folks of hell... not the righteous Muslim ones!

2. Inequalities - of course there are inequalities in Islamic law and to kid yourself otherwise is to ignore both Qu'ran and the Hadith. I don't know what you definition of inequality is but why should a man be allowed to have up to 4 wives but a women cannot have 4 husbands, in the above verse we have the word status used, a man may buy as many slaves as he wants and can have sexual relations with all female slaves, Apostasy, zina etc. Have you ever looked at 5:69 or have the Ulema changed its meaning so if your not a Muslim you are 'Outside' so treated differently.
I think we have proven and repeatedly how ignorant you are of Islamic laws, your failure to do full proper research and your failure to understand how the laws work in the scheme of things heck your failure to even quote the Quran properly ..

Multiple wives isn't an injunction, it is an allowance, so when folks like your British star 'Sir Michael Gambon' fathers a second child with his mistress with his wife's permission, his child would have some rights and not be a mere B******...
50% of men will cheat on their wives by the age of 50.. I have already posted an article here from the web. such laws are made for such men, for surely God Knows the nature of all his creation!
1- marriage in and of itself is a deterrence from the act of cheating.
2- if you are going to go ahead and do it, then there will be responsibility which you should be ready to bear.. it isn't all about fornication as is in the west..
btw, have you read your bible? I ask of course because not only is it filled with sex, pre, extra, polygamy and even incest, but because of my true failure to understand how you can not just subscribe to such a religion but have the audacity to question us on ours without so much as properly quoting or referencing your queries. What is it that you hope to accomplish pray do tell? We are going to realize that we are antiquated and thus the only alternative is to subscribe to the man/god faith and be akin to animals (as women) or be secularists? Don't you think one would be better off as an atheist at this stage or an agnostic? why should I substitute one belief (which you alone consider antiquated) for one even more antiquated and confounding one at best?...pls give that some thought before you get so hyper vigilant on us...

5:69 for, verily, those who have attained to faith [in this divine writ], as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Sabians,86 and the Christians - all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds - no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve.


doesn't apply to modern Jews or christians, rather those righteous ones during the time of their prophets.. you should read the Quran in full, not just take interest in verses that appeal to you without proper exegesis!

Have you also read that the religion with God is Islam? it is in the same book!


3. Of course you have antiquated laws: what about slavery is that outdated or the enumerable laws on property ownership that could never have any use in the modern world? You say you are passionate about science but would you hold on to principles or practices that have long been show to be useless or outdated?
Again, Islam came to abolish slavery.. do read:

Islam came at a time when slavery was deeply entrenched in the society, so Islam worked towards the gradual elimination of slavery.
  • Islam encouraged the emanciplating of slaves; The Qur'an does so in many places:
    4:92, 5:89, 58:3, 90:13, 24:33, 9:60, 2:177, 2:221, 4:25, 4:36.
    The Prophet said:
    "A person who frees a Muslim slave, Allah will deliver every one of his limbs from the fire of Hell in return for each of the limbs of the slave (Sahîh Bukhârî, and Sahîh Muslim)​
    Shaykh Abu Bakr Al-Jazâ'iry writes:
    Islam orders making an agreement to facilitate a slave in buying back his freedom if he requests such an agreement, and it encourages helping him in that with shares or wealth. Allah the Almighty said:
    And such of your slaves as seek a writing (of emancipation) give them such writing, if you find that there is good and honesty in them. And give them something (yourselves) out of the wealth of Allah which He has bestowed upon you. (Qur'an 24:33)

    (Al-Jaza'iry, Minhaj Al-Muslim, vol. 2, p.551)​
    The Prophet said: "If any of you have a slave girl, whom he gives good education and excellent training, and then he emancipates her and marries her, he shall have a two-fold reward. " (Sahîh Bukhârî)
  • Islam eliminated and restricted the sources of slavery, prohibiting the enslavement of free people, the Prophet said:
    The Prophet said, "Allah says, 'I will be against three persons on the Day of Resurrection: [...] One who sells a free person (as a slave) and eats the price (Sahîh Bukhari)
    "There are three people whose prayers are not accepted. And one of these three is a man who enslaves a free person (Rajulun iitabada muharraran)" (Sunan Abî Dawûd)​
  • Islam obligated freeing slaves in many circumstances as expiation. Expiation for breaking an oath is freeing a slave (2:221), unintentionally causing a Muslim's death is freeing a slave (4:221), expiation for Zihâr is freeing a slave (4:221), breaking one's fast in ramadan is freeing a slave (Sahîh Muslim), etc.
  • Islam elevated the status of slaves and promoted universal human equality; the Prophet said:
    "Yield obedience to my succesors, even if he is a black ethiopian slave" (Mishkat al-Masaabih, At-Tabreezee)
    "No one should say, "my slave" as all of you are slaves of Allah." (Bukhari, Muslim, An-Nasaa'ee and Ibn Hibban)​
  • Islam prohibited the poor treatment of slaves; the Prophet said:
    "Whoever strikes his slave or beats him, then his expiation is to free him." (Sahîh Muslim)
    They are your brothers; give them to eat what you eat; give them to wear what you wear. (Sunan At-Tirmidhi)
    "He who treats his slave badly will not enter Paradise". (Musnad Ahmad)
    "You are to honor them and to treat them like your children, and feed them from what you eat" (Musnad Ahmad)​
So the claim that Islam simply allowed slavery is not true at all. Islam was actually instrumental in the gradual elimination of slavery for the reasons listed above. Muhammad (S) bought freedom of 63 former slaves, A’isha (RA) 67, Abbas (RA) 70, Abdullah ibn Umar (RA) 1000 and Abdur Rahman ibn Awf 30,000.

Islam did the best thing possible in working towards the removal of slavery and the elimination of any associated injustices. The fantasy of someone simply snapping their fingers and declaring the immediate abolishment of slavery in the 7th century is a nice idea, but unfortunately unrealistic and impossible. Slavery was deeply entrenched in the society and consequently could not be eliminated immediately. Islam took several steps to eliminate the injustices of slavery and drive humanity in the direction of its gradual elimination.

As for relations with female slaves, then again it is forbidden to abuse them whether physically or sexually, in the case of rape. Islam commands just, kind and compassionate treatment. The expiation for mistreating one's slave is to set them free and in the event of abuse the state may implement a ta'zîr (discretionary) punishment on the perpetrator.

:w:
__________________
http://www.islamicboard.com/discover-islam/32353-slavery.html#post1199006

PS - Yes I follow the links but when they lead to several others and dozens of pages I like 99.9999% of people who use this board decide it is not worth it. What value would it be to a student when he asks his professor a question to be told go and read 10 books? If those who post cannot be bothered to state their point concisely and lucidly then they don't deserve much of a hearing do they?
What is a professor to do with a truant student who doesn't seem to understand either the short of the long of it?
One gives you a small lecture, you want it validated. Validation comes with historical facts and data. The job of the prof. is to clarify your misunderstanding, but last I left it, the student still had homework to do, and the student still had to be tested, on whether or not he read his assignment and on his knowledge whether it is superficial or actually understood the content of the lecture or opted for cliff notes and heresy and cheesy replies and then blamed his failures on his teachers.. that is what distinguishes the scholars from the impostors.


I think with the above it should be clear that women status in Islam can't be at all equated with any other religious or secular. Islam elevates women it doesn't objectify them. And makes seeking knowledge mandatory on every living soul not have them hiding lest they usurp their men or church elders!

a woman sued Omar ibn ilkhtab once (the khalif) for wrongful death, she stated she saw him and had a miscarriage and the court rules in her favor.. a woman said 'wa mo3tasama' for she was done injustice by a jeweler who tied her dress to the chair so when she got up she was denuded, and al mo3tasm sent an army in her honor.. you are going to come here and tell me how I am being treated in Islam? funny man the least you can do is quote the Quran correctly, it is really not that difficult, especially if you want others to reply to you with some fidelity and not take you for a jokester?



all the best
 
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