French pool bans 'burkini' swim

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Muezzin said:
Don't get me wrong, this decision is silly for many reasons, morally and commercially.

Commercially it's stupid to potentially alienate a segment of your customer base (i.e. Muslims) in this way. Though to be fair, it's the mayor causing potential alienation with his interpretations of Islamic requirements rather than the pool staff, who are emphasising that a Rule's a Rule, and it's Nothing Personal etc.

As for health and safety - it can be a pretty crazy part of law.
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They are just as much responsible. Just cause he's mayor doesn't mean he's right. The fact that he's got all it wrong Islamically and no one else cares to actually educate themself on the issue. It's just like being spoon fed...he says it, therefore it cannot be questioned :hmm: Nonsense in my opinion..

Honestly, I dont see these people making a big deal out of smoking/drugs, pre marital sex and alcohol due to health and safety...? Why? It's obvious they're singling out Muslims.
 
theres no point trying to defend this 'burkini' thing. They only way it will be modest is if she is in a pool full of other burkini wearing muslim women. Or if they invent some burkini goggles to go with it, which block out uncovered flesh
 
Light of Heaven said:
They are just as much responsible.
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I'm inclined to believe the pool staff have simply written themselves into a legal corner. It happens. Litigation will resolve this.

Just cause he's mayor doesn't mean he's right.
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I agree. The mayor is the one stirring the pot here.

The fact that he's got all it wrong Islamically and no one else cares to actually educate themself on the issue. It's just like being spoon fed...he says it, therefore it cannot be questioned :hmm: Nonsense in my opinion..
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Agreed.

Honestly, I dont see these people making a big deal out of smoking,
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Don't know about France, but most public places in the UK don't allow smoking.

pre marital sex
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Public places in all countries tend not to allow that sort of behaviour in a public place.

Unless I've misunderstood your point, which is entirely possible.

and alcohol
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I don't think public pools would allow alcohol on the premises either, but I could be wrong.

due to health and safety concerns...? Why? It's obvious they're singling out Muslims.
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Again, I think what is actually the case in this particular situation is that it is simply the outcome of a badly drafted rule. The mayor's ill-advised have-a-go fatwa muddies the waters and worsens the situation.
 
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^^Nah i don't mean at the pool area or anything like that nor do I mean what places ban it or disallow it. What I mean is, if they are really concerned about health and safety, why not such a big deal over things like drugs and such instead of over clothing. You get me? So that's why I concluded that it's a total bias. It's more like a rhetorical question.


theres no point trying to defend this 'burkini' thing. They only way it will be modest is if she is in a pool full of other burkini wearing muslim women. Or if they invent some burkini goggles to go with it, which block out uncovered flesh
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I'm not defending that at all. I personally would never wear it and even if I was wearing an air bag and u couldnt tell my head from my foot...i wouldnt swim in public :p
I'm talking about the sort of mentality these people use...or at least what is left of it.
 
Light of Heaven said:
Nah i don't mean at the pool area or anything like that nor do I mean what places ban it or disallow it. What I mean is, if they are really concerned about health and safety, why not such a big deal over these things but over clothing. You get me?
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I get you. Like I said, health and safety law can be a very crazy place.
 
KAding said:
The real question is, does the swimming pool also ban swimming shorts for men, I mean those longer loose ones you almost always see on the beach?

In my neighborhood several swimming pools have banned those as well, also citing hygiene reasons. So you are actually forced to wear one of those tight swimming 'trunks'.

I might be somewhat more sympathetic to this swimming pool if they had a ban on all loose clothing.
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They ban all loose clothing. Men and women must wear tight suits, wear hair caps, and shower before entering the pool. Essentially, they want to make sure that nobody is wearing clothing that can also be worn on the "street". The rationale is that these clothes will carry chemicals, bacteria and viruses into the water.

I don't know how much evidence there is for this belief. But it appears that the rule is being applied evenly. There is a legal concept known as "reasonable accomodation". I guess the courts will weigh in as to if and how this applies here. Certainly nobody will argue that only Muslim women should be allowed to wear loose, all-covering clothes, so you will basically have to throw the regulation out if such suits are allowed.
 
The only rule from above that I recognize is taking a shower before getting in, other than that, they make no such demands of anyone, also head covering is mandatory in the pool as are goggles because of the chlorine and other chemicals. There is no scientific evidence to support that the amount of bacteria is different between loose and tight garments... unless people like to harbor a poop sac in their loose clothing and release it upon diving in just to be vindictive? ...

pools no matter how chlorinated are breeding ground for bacteria most notably Pseudomonas aeruginosa, children and diabetics are most prune..

It is a risk you take when using a public pool, just like the risk you take every time you get into the car!
 
Salam,
I think burkini is a very good invent. It covers you like you should and as long as it's not these skin tight burkinis, but these better ones then it's perfect. And in a material that doesn't harm the pools more than normal bikinis and other bathing clothes. In fact, if children bathe with t-shirt on because they don't want to get burned it should harm the pool more. Forbid that instead of the burkini and I guess all parents will go mad.
 
aadil77 said:
I dont get the point of this suit, it looks stupid, the women will still be seein other women and mens awrahs. So theres no point to it at all
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Fair enough and the same would apply to muslim men as they too would be seeing other women' and men's awrahs in a mixed gender pool and vice versa maybe they can go in for their own verson of swimming trunks like the one below by i an thorpe and that too in a male-only pool

IanThorpe-1.jpg
 
Not seeing other people's awrahs is a weird reason for not going to the pool. According to that rule, we shouldn't leave our homes because we're sure to see somebody's awrah if we go outside, what with current fashion trends. If we can lower our gazes outside, we can do it in the pool too.

Though I would never go to a mixed public pool. But that's because my suit, though it covers my awrah, is still tight. And I cover my face. It's impossible to swim with a niqaab.

But I considered buying a burqini so I could swim with my brothers in private areas.
 
Men's awrah to men is only bellybutton to knees. Their suits don't have to be so extreme. Long shorts are fine in a men only pool.
 
Ah I was not sure whether I should create a new topic...so I posted it here.

French minister urges burka ban

A ban on the wearing of the burka in France would help stem the spread of the "cancer" of radical Islam, one of its female Muslim ministers has said.

Urban Regeneration Minister Fadela Amara told the Financial Times that a veil covering everything but the eyes represented "the oppression of women".

Ms Amara said she was "in favour of the burka not existing in my country".

The comments come as French MPs hold hearings on whether to ban the garment, which covers the body from head to toe.

The National Assembly set up the 32-member commission after President Nicolas Sarkozy said the burka was "not welcome" in France, home to Western Europe's largest population of Muslims.
The burka represents not a piece of fabric but the political manipulation of a religion
Fadela Amara, French Minister for Urban Regeneration


Mr Sarkozy said it was unacceptable to have women who were "prisoners behind netting, cut off from all social life, deprived of identity".

In 2004, France controversially banned Muslim headscarves and other "conspicuous" religious symbols in state schools and by public employees.

'Political manipulation'

In an interview with the Financial Times on Saturday, Mr Amara said she was in favour of an outright ban on the burka, even though it might be difficult to apply.

Find out about different styles of Muslim headscarf

In graphics



"The burka represents not a piece of fabric but the political manipulation of a religion that enslaves women and disputes the principal of equality between men and women, one of the founding principles of our republic," she said.

France was a beacon for an enlightened Islam at ease with modernity, so it was necessary to fight the "gangrene, the cancer of radical Islam which completely distorts the message of Islam", she said.

Ms Amara, who is of Algerian descent, argued that banning the burka would help women to stand up to the extremists in their communities.

"The vast majority of Muslims are against the burka. It is obvious why," she said.

"Those who have struggled for women's rights back home in their own countries - I'm thinking particularly of Algeria - we know what it represents and what the obscurantist political project is that lies behind it, to confiscate the most fundamental liberties."

She added that the 2004 ban on headscarves in schools had helped Muslim women face up to male chauvinism in their communities.
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Source

These French ministers are idiots. . There is no correlation between the Burka and radicalism.
 
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