Slavery

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What is there to talk about those rulers whom U mentioned? Were they muslims? I dont think so, coz they allowed shrik to flourish under their rule. This is the reason hindus didnt object to their rule. Hindus wont mind any muslim ruling them now too as long as they are allowed to idol worship and worship multiple gods they believe in. I hope I m able to make U understand. Akbar was only few steps ahead from their preceedors.

In Islam, the places of worship of other people are to left to them. So how is allowing hindus worship in their own way in their temples allowing shirk to flourish. As long as it's not propagated in public then there's no reason to suppress the acts.

What U need to find out how many muslim nations are there who permit alchohol or discothiques on their soil? results could be disturbing to U. And when Islamic ideology has been failed by muslims themselves, than every other ideology could be failed, nothing to mention this.

Oh, but the question is?, do the hindus oppose the presence of discotheques, alcohol etc etc, I don't think so. In addition to that, all the "alcohol" business in muslim countries is to please the non-muslim tourists no?
Personally I am against it and so is everyone else on this forum, and I think you know that is the majority of muslim individual's opinions, but just for your information in a shariah based state a non-muslim is not to be punished for an act that is not considered unlawful in his belief system.

If we talk about statistics, I don't think youre in a very good position, for example are you against the porn movies business in India or not?
You constantly make it seem as if youre belief system is ok (maybe so) with those things like alcohol and discotheques since you keep showing how muslims failed their "idealogy", and yet you wanna talk about statistics.

America is better butt-buddy of most of Muslim nations, which country U live in BTW?
What's wrong with America, do you consider america "the great white evil"?
Why do you envy america?
From all the Indians who have abandoned India and failed its "idealogy" and have become americanized, seems like youre the butt-buddies.

I live in egypt, I would like you to give your statistics about it? :)

Yeah right, Islam doesnt allows anytihing above, I think ur intelligent question has been answered. A piece of advice to U brother, plz dont act like enemies of Islam, act differently.
Please, don't act like a friend of Islam, deception is such a dispicable thing



To U is ur religion,to me is mine.

Peace to U.[/QUOTE]

Peace onto you.
 
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In Islam, the places of worship of other people are to left to them. So how is allowing hindus worship in their own way in their temples allowing shirk to flourish. As long as it's not propagated in public then there's no reason to suppress the acts.

Well its a complex issue. Above noted views maybe of Ur own but its definetely not in accordance to Islam. That is the only reason that we dont find any synogogue or church in Saudi Arabia today. Like a true Islamic ruler, they wont allow anyone to practise his or her religion freely except Islam. Also consider views expressed in following link.

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/20894/idols

But because there are many versions of Islam, ur sect might be having a different view about this issue, I can understand.

Oh, but the question is?, do the hindus oppose the presence of discotheques, alcohol etc etc, I don't think so. In addition to that, all the "alcohol" business in muslim countries is to please the non-muslim tourists no?
Personally I am against it and so is everyone else on this forum, and I think you know that is the majority of muslim individual's opinions, but just for your information in a shariah based state a non-muslim is not to be punished for an act that is not considered unlawful in his belief system.

How islamic is it to please the non-muslim tourists by means of alchohol or pork? Dont U think that its a big question in itself? I m sure that on the day of judgement, ALLAH wont listen to this excuse from the person who introduced the system of alchohol selling to please the kuffar tourists. Do U differ?

As far as majority of muslim individual's opinion is concerned, a whopping over 95% will say that we want to live under shariyah laws. But at the end of day U see the results in this big muslim world. This is the value of individual muslim opinion U are talking about.


If we talk about statistics, I don't think youre in a very good position, for example are you against the porn movies business in India or not?
You constantly make it seem as if youre belief system is ok (maybe so) with those things like alcohol and discotheques since you keep showing how muslims failed their "idealogy", and yet you wanna talk about statistics.

I m against porn movie busisness anywhere in the world. its not lawful in India. But I dont understand how U determine my position by this question. U are a bit unclear in ur approach in above quoted phrase.

What's wrong with America, do you consider america "the great white evil"?
Why do you envy america?
From all the Indians who have abandoned India and failed its "idealogy" and have become americanized, seems like youre the butt-buddies.

I dont envy america nor I consider them any kind of evil. I was replying to the brother who claimed that america is butt-buddy of India. I was trying to prove that most muslim nations, and hopefully his own nation is same butt-buddy of america, therefore his indecent claim was futile and uncalled for. I hope now I can make U understand the whole thing.

Please, don't act like a friend of Islam, deception is such a dispicable thing

I m a friend of Islam and muslims, plz get it right.

Peace to U.
 
Well its a complex issue. Above noted views maybe of Ur own but its definetely not in accordance to Islam. That is the only reason that we dont find any synogogue or church in Saudi Arabia today. Like a true Islamic ruler, they wont allow anyone to practise his or her religion freely except Islam. Also consider views expressed in following link.

Not accordance with Islam you say, why claim knowledge of things that are beyond you?.
What about all the millions of chrisitians in egypt where I live, why did their churches survive throughout the muslim rule all the way till now?
And that goes for the rest of the countries that were ruled by muslims.

I know what I'm talking about, no new places of worship are allowed to be built or should be allowed but in a limited way but old ones that used to exist as the case was in India are not to be demolished or removed.

But because there are many versions of Islam, ur sect might be having a different view about this issue, I can understand.

Since you claim so much knowledge about Islam to the extent that you want to teach me about it and tell me that's my sect's opinion, please do tell, what are the sects in Islam?.


How islamic is it to please the non-muslim tourists by means of alchohol or pork? Dont U think that its a big question in itself? I m sure that on the day of judgement, ALLAH wont listen to this excuse from the person who introduced the system of alchohol selling to please the kuffar tourists. Do U differ?

Obviously I am against it, but like you said ALLAH(swt) will judge each and everyone of us, why he(the ruler) ignores to remember the day of judgement is his burden on that day not mine.
What I meant was the bad influence came from outside.

As far as majority of muslim individual's opinion is concerned, a whopping over 95% will say that we want to live under shariyah laws. But at the end of day U see the results in this big muslim world. This is the value of individual muslim opinion U are talking about.

The same way you are against porn business and presumably your religion is but you have no hand in changing it, same goes for muslims who want the shariah law but have no hand in implementing it.
Btw, what do you know about the muslim world?, saudi arabia basically implements 95% of the shariah, egypt derives most of its laws from the shariah, and on the other hand there are other countries that don't apply the shariah at all.
 
Not accordance with Islam you say, why claim knowledge of things that are beyond you?.
What about all the millions of chrisitians in egypt where I live, why did their churches survive throughout the muslim rule all the way till now?
And that goes for the rest of the countries that were ruled by muslims.

I know what I'm talking about, no new places of worship are allowed to be built or should be allowed but in a limited way but old ones that used to exist as the case was in India are not to be demolished or removed.

I claim knowledge coz I have something to prove my point. in this case I produced a link from a website which is widely used to determine what is the correct Islamic ruling on a certain subject. Egypt is a muslim nation goverened by secular laws inspite of Islamic laws. The law makers of ur Nation overstepped laws of ALLAH and chose to write laws for themselves. So giving any example of Egypt is of no use while talking on Islam. Saudi Arabia is a Nation of choice in this matter coz we see most of Shariyah Implemented over there only.

It seems that either U didnt read the opinion of Islamic experts which I provided through the link, or U dont agree with them. I think Islamic ruling is very much clear in this regard, One cant not involve him or herself in any activity that leads to shirk. And when it comes to shirk, Hindus are champion of that. It is well documented in history that no muslim ruler of India, except Aurangzeb objected to idol worshipping, rather they encouraged it in some ways.

Since you claim so much knowledge about Islam to the extent that you want to teach me about it and tell me that's my sect's opinion, please do tell, what are the sects in Islam?.

I dont know which part of my post prompted U to believe that I want to teach U about Islam, plz let me know. If U get offended by my remark about sect than I m sorry aboutthat and beg for ur apology. Ur question is not understandable to me, what are the sects in Islam? Plz eleborate whether U want me to give U the list of sects?

The same way you are against porn business and presumably your religion is but you have no hand in changing it, same goes for muslims who want the shariah law but have no hand in implementing it.
Btw, what do you know about the muslim world?, saudi arabia basically implements 95% of the shariah, egypt derives most of its laws from the shariah, and on the other hand there are other countries that don't apply the shariah at all.

I told U earlier that porn business is unlawful in India. Perhaps U didnt read my post properly. So there is no question changing it as its already unlawful. So ur logic that all muslims want shariyah but they have no hand in Implementing it falls flat. Who stops muslims in Implementing the laws they believe to be divine commands? What U are talkin about do U have any idea???

Peace to U.
 
Well brother I differ with U and feel that releasing POWs is the best humanist approach. They are able to live their lives as free men with their family rather than working as slaves. It could not have worked well in case of Salahuddin, but that doesnt means that it should not be practised. U can ask those released POWs, who were set free by KAFIR India.

Well, you think what you want but from a strategic point of view it is flawed.


What is there to talk about those rulers whom U mentioned? Were they muslims? I dont think so, coz they allowed shrik to flourish under their rule. This is the reason hindus didnt object to their rule. Hindus wont mind any muslim ruling them now too as long as they are allowed to idol worship and worship multiple gods they believe in. I hope I m able to make U understand. Akbar was only few steps ahead from their preceedors.

You should stop talking about Islam like you know about it. Islam doesn't condemn non-muslims from living under its rule provided they adhere to its laws and pay the jizya. So my conclusion can only be that your reply was one of ignorance and spite.

The reason hindus didn't object is because we didn't throw your wives to burn with your husbands when they died, or perhaps because we didn't label certain people as untouchables and treat them worst than animals.


Well there was no reasons to object to their rule in my opinion as I mentioned earlier, Hindus would object if someone will force them to pay zaziya or convert them to Islam or deny them to worship their dear Idols. As long as this doesnt happens, Muslims are most welcome to rule.

Exactly, Islamic rule is better than Hindu rule. You talk about slavery and it is funny that it was the brahmins that caused rifts not us Muslims, deeming certain ndividuals better than others. These were all Hindu teachings I'm not making this up. It is understandable why they wouldn't object, I mean, after all, who would want to follow someone who says you are inferior to someone else just because of the family you were born in?


I dont want to go down to history to prove when alchohol was present or not. Advanis and Modis of India are democratic hindu version of Islamic terrorists operating in different muslim countries. We know how to deal with them and we are doing it, so nothing to worry for U. What U need to find out how many muslim nations are there who permit alchohol or discothiques on their soil? results could be disturbing to U. And when Islamic ideology has been failed by muslims themselves, than every other ideology could be failed, nothing to mention this. America is better butt-buddy of most of Muslim nations, which country U live in BTW?

Was that supposed to be a joke? You are dealing with them? They ruled your government, is that how you deal with mass murderers? lol Nothing for me to worry? Oh yes, since you say so I'll stop worrying about the Muslims that were massacred in Gujrat (sarcasm).

It doesn't matter how many Muslim nations allow that, their leaders are stupid, my question was it was not allowed in India before, and guess who banned alcohol in India? It was us Muslims!

Is it not today even that U muslims kill ur muslim brothers and sisters? ( swat Paksitan, darfur,etc.) Or the scholers of ur religion Mullahs tag some muslims as kuffar and wajib ul qatl? How many different sects U are divided in? Or U muslims pray to Mazaars and ask those dead men for favours, sing musical songs in their praise?

Thank you! Now I know why we, muslims, are in such a bad state today. We Muslims flourished when we followed our religion, and you Hindus were deprived and despied when you followed yours. We Muslims are in such a bad state because we abandoned our religion and YOU are in power because YOU abandoned your religion. We abandoning our religion caused us to be the lowest of the low while you abandoning yours caused you to be become better, its even more clear to me that Muslims must follow their religion to out do all those who abandoned theirs.


Yeah right, Islam doesnt allows anytihing above, I think ur intelligent question has been answered. A piece of advice to U brother, plz dont act like enemies of Islam, act differently.


To U is ur religion,to me is mine.

Peace to U.

Yes, my question has been answered, fact remains, Hindus burned their wives, Hindus created caste systems, because their religion made it so but when Muslims disobeyed they were going against the rules of Islam.

Piece of advice to you, I am Indian so I know what goes on in there, don't talk to me like I'm a gullible stranger who'll believe everything you say out of ignorance.

And all your answers were just run around answers, you never answered why hindus created a caste system from THEIR religion, not from their people. It was in their religion to do so. You never answered why the wives were burned with the husband upon the husbands death which was also a part of Hindu religion. Most of all, why was this practice changed if it was a part of Hindu religion and if the religion was changed then how is it the perfect religion?
 
do you know who are slaves in Islam? It is the short coming of the brother for not clarifying the meaning of the term in Islamic concept. In Islam, the slaves are prisoners of war and when Muslims take prisoners of war then it is depended upon the Muslim ruler to pass any judgment about them: a) free them without any ransom or b) free them for ransom or c) exchange them for their fellow Muslim prisoners or d) distribute them to Muslims aka slaves. Regarding prisoners of war, Islam came up with a better and practical solution. The prisoners can freely work, be treated justly and fairly by their masters, gain their freedom by paying some money to their masters or their masters free them. This is completely contrary to ancient and modern treatment of prisoners of war: tortured, starved and thrown in dungeons. Not to mention that salves can learn about Islam and achieve the highest thing that is possible - embrace Islam.

Okay so if your term for slavfes is that then what do you call the women who were kidnapped from the south coast of europe to be imprisoned in the brothels of Algiers. The men who were taken and chained to the oars of a galley there to slave until they dies, What did their muslim owners call them?

CIrcassian slave girls were the pride of the Caliphs harem, they did not choose their fate nor were they given the chance to buy their freedom they just had the choice submit or be punished. What is the muslim name for them if is not slave?
The Africans taken from the east coast of Africa and put to work for their muslim owners, maybe some made it to high rank, almost as many as were Castrated and put to work as harem guards.

What is your word for them and shall we discuss the muslim treatment of them?
 
Well its a complex issue. Above noted views maybe of Ur own but its definetely not in accordance to Islam. That is the only reason that we dont find any synogogue or church in Saudi Arabia today. Like a true Islamic ruler, they wont allow anyone to practise his or her religion freely except Islam. Also consider views expressed in following link.

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/20894/idols

But because there are many versions of Islam, ur sect might be having a different view about this issue, I can understand.

All different "sects" believe in the same tawheed and thus are by definition Muslims, nice try though.

How islamic is it to please the non-muslim tourists by means of alchohol or pork? Dont U think that its a big question in itself? I m sure that on the day of judgement, ALLAH wont listen to this excuse from the person who introduced the system of alchohol selling to please the kuffar tourists. Do U differ?

I think worshiping idols is far far worse than selling alcohol to non-muslims. So by YOUR criteria you should be more worried about YOUR fate than others.

As far as majority of muslim individual's opinion is concerned, a whopping over 95% will say that we want to live under shariyah laws. But at the end of day U see the results in this big muslim world. This is the value of individual muslim opinion U are talking about.

Ah, at least you admit we want shariah law and imply that it is not being implemented! Thanks for pointing it out!


I dont envy america nor I consider them any kind of evil. I was replying to the brother who claimed that america is butt-buddy of India. I was trying to prove that most muslim nations, and hopefully his own nation is same butt-buddy of america, therefore his indecent claim was futile and uncalled for. I hope now I can make U understand the whole thing.

My own nation (redundant) is India, and you are right, it is butt-buddy of America!

you never answered why hindus created a caste system from THEIR religion, not from their people (meaning, it was not something non-practicing hindus did but rather thir religion deemed it so). It was in their religion to do so. You never answered why the wives were burned with the husband upon the husbands death which was also a part of Hindu religion. Most of all, why was this practice changed if it was a part of Hindu religion and if the religion was changed then how is it the perfect religion?

you never answered why hindus created a caste system from THEIR religion, not from their people (meaning, it was not something non-practicing hindus did but rather thir religion deemed it so). It was in their religion to do so. You never answered why the wives were burned with the husband upon the husbands death which was also a part of Hindu religion. Most of all, why was this practice changed if it was a part of Hindu religion and if the religion was changed then how is it the perfect religion?

you never answered why hindus created a caste system from THEIR religion, not from their people (meaning, it was not something non-practicing hindus did but rather thir religion deemed it so). It was in their religion to do so. You never answered why the wives were burned with the husband upon the husbands death which was also a part of Hindu religion. Most of all, why was this practice changed if it was a part of Hindu religion and if the religion was changed then how is it the perfect religion?
 
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the kaffir mind has only so many dimensions, no matter how convinced that it thinks outside the box-- they too are slaves to the conditioning of the human quality!

I agree, but that isn't at all what I asked.
 
Santoku, that was not just islamicliffe's definition, it is the Koran's, as the verses I cited earlier proved. People of every religion break the rules and redefine things. It's a fact of life.
 
Well, you think what you want but from a strategic point of view it is flawed.




You should stop talking about Islam like you know about it. Islam doesn't condemn non-muslims from living under its rule provided they adhere to its laws and pay the jizya. So my conclusion can only be that your reply was one of ignorance and spite.

From humanistic point of view, which we hindus often tend to consider, it was the best decision. But U are entitled to ur opinion.

U should stop telling me what to talk or what not to. I have nothing against Islam or muslims, but its an established fact that muslims have nowhere proved to be good rulers, they didnt even spare muslims from murdering them, so hindus should not expect much from them. I admit that they didnt introduced Islamic system of ruling in India due to obvious reasons that hindus wont accept it. This cast a shadow on their Islamic credentials. Now its upto U that U are ready to accept hard realities or choose to be in denial mode.

The reason hindus didn't object is because we didn't throw your wives to burn with your husbands when they died, or perhaps because we didn't label certain people as untouchables and treat them worst than animals.

Ur frustation is showing in ur words. I have already told U hindus didnt object coz their idol worshipping was supported by so called muslim rulers. Had Islamic system been implemented than those muslim rulers would have faced hard resistance from idol-worshipping hindus. U didnt lable certain ppls as untouchables or treated them worse than animals, credit goes to U. But U have a very ugly blot of killing ur muslim bretherns throughout the history right from days of khilafat to present day in Darfur. Swallow it.


Exactly, Islamic rule is better than Hindu rule. You talk about slavery and it is funny that it was the brahmins that caused rifts not us Muslims, deeming certain ndividuals better than others. These were all Hindu teachings I'm not making this up. It is understandable why they wouldn't object, I mean, after all, who would want to follow someone who says you are inferior to someone else just because of the family you were born in?

Talking of causing rift? Is there greater rift anywhere in the world among ppls of same religion as in Islam? Hah, one sect throwing insults towards other sect's revered personalities, another sect praising those who are considered arch villans by other sect. Stilll Islamic rule is better, which says that no muslim should be killed for killing a non-muslim. ask for reference if U dont know about the ruling.

Cast difference was used to be practised by hindus in earlier time, but it was not hindu teaching, rather teaching of some bad hindus. Hindu scripture never said anything like cast system. Better save this into ur head.


Was that supposed to be a joke? You are dealing with them? They ruled your government, is that how you deal with mass murderers? lol Nothing for me to worry? Oh yes, since you say so I'll stop worrying about the Muslims that were massacred in Gujrat (sarcasm).

It doesn't matter how many Muslim nations allow that, their leaders are stupid, my question was it was not allowed in India before, and guess who banned alcohol in India? It was us Muslims!

This is no joke for those who have some sense. Yes we are dealing with them, thats the reason that after shameful incident of Gujrat BJP has lost two elections in line, and we have taken power back from them. U seems to be living in past if u dont know ground realities.

Okay, so U banned alchohol,right? Credit goes to U.

Thank you! Now I know why we, muslims, are in such a bad state today. We Muslims flourished when we followed our religion, and you Hindus were deprived and despied when you followed yours. We Muslims are in such a bad state because we abandoned our religion and YOU are in power because YOU abandoned your religion. We abandoning our religion caused us to be the lowest of the low while you abandoning yours caused you to be become better, its even more clear to me that Muslims must follow their religion to out do all those who abandoned theirs.

Thank U for this information, and its good that U admitted that today's muslims(Majority of them not all) are namesake muslims, no wonder ALLAH is giving them zillat everywhere. Guess whom ALLAH has given promised upper hand. To them who HE feels are on right path. U too start walking on right path like us, U too will be rewarded by ALLAH. whats difficulty in understanding this simpe thing by ur fellow muslims?

Yes, my question has been answered, fact remains, Hindus burned their wives, Hindus created caste systems, because their religion made it so but when Muslims disobeyed they were going against the rules of Islam.

Piece of advice to you, I am Indian so I know what goes on in there, don't talk to me like I'm a gullible stranger who'll believe everything you say out of ignorance.

And all your answers were just run around answers, you never answered why hindus created a caste system from THEIR religion, not from their people. It was in their religion to do so. You never answered why the wives were burned with the husband upon the husbands death which was also a part of Hindu religion. Most of all, why was this practice changed if it was a part of Hindu religion and if the religion was changed then how is it the perfect religion?

U still cant understand whole thing, hindus burned their wives, hindus created caste system, while it was never stated in their RELIGION. Muslims who ruled India never objected idol worshipping, rather they became a part of it, therefore they abandoned their religion and its teaching. Dont U see ppls thronging Mazaars on Thursays singing musical songs and praying to graves? This has been the teaching of those rulers which is flourshing in Indian subcontinant. I hope this time I can make U understand better.


Thanks for ur piece of advice, I reciprocate ur advice to U. I dont say anything in ignorance,but only when I have reasons to talk about those things. Next time U talk to me plz do a bit of ur homework, like giving reference from the only hindu sacred scripture if U know which one is that.

Nobody can answer U as long as U remain in denial mode. I have asked U to give ur reference from the only hindu scripture which says that caste system was in hindu religion, or which says burning wives was in accordance to hindu religion. In absence of any such reference, ur question is just laughable like other questions just as why muslims kill muslims, or why muslims pray to graves. I hope that this time U understand the things better unlike before.

Peace to U my Indian brother.
 
All different "sects" believe in the same tawheed and thus are by definition Muslims, nice try though

Yeah, this rare time I agree with U,by DEFINATION they are muslims though, no matter they are at war with ALLAH but they are muslims.

I think worshiping idols is far far worse than selling alcohol to non-muslims. So by YOUR criteria you should be more worried about YOUR fate than others.

U are entitled to whatever U like to think. I know that my fate is safe in ALLAH's hands. I m not a munafiq in fact.

Ah, at least you admit we want shariah law and imply that it is not being implemented! Thanks for pointing it out!

Well all muslims want shariyah. U are destined to live under kuffar rule so U are not part of that,but majority of ur fellow muslims living in muslisms lands are hypocrites. if all wants shariyah than why they choose to write laws for themselves and abandon laws of ALLAH??? Isnt is a grand show of hypocricy????

My own nation (redundant) is India, and you are right, it is butt-buddy of America!

Oh so we are from same great Nation. And U are wrong, ur nation is not butt buddy of America,but our neibhouring country is. Americans give them money and tell them what to do and what not to do. They often violate their sovereignty by sending their planes to bomb their innocent civilians saying that these kids, elderly, women are terrorists. I hope Now u have learnt who is butt-buddy of America.


you never answered why hindus created a caste system from THEIR religion, not from their people (meaning, it was not something non-practicing hindus did but rather thir religion deemed it so). It was in their religion to do so. You never answered why the wives were burned with the husband upon the husbands death which was also a part of Hindu religion. Most of all, why was this practice changed if it was a part of Hindu religion and if the religion was changed then how is it the perfect religion?

Plz bring ur reference from the authentic hindu scripture which says that caste system or wife burning is in accordance to Hindu religion. And if perfect religion cant be changed than why ur muslim brothers and sisters ask for favours from graves? And why they sing musical songs (melodious quawwalis) near those graves? Was it part of Islam?

Waiting for U to come ahead with suitable answers.

Peace to U my Indian brother.
 
Yeah, this rare time I agree with U,by DEFINATION they are muslims though, no matter they are at war with ALLAH but they are muslims.

Who are you to say who are they at war with?

U are entitled to whatever U like to think. I know that my fate is safe in ALLAH's hands. I m not a munafiq in fact.

no comment

Well all muslims want shariyah. U are destined to live under kuffar rule so U are not part of that,but majority of ur fellow muslims living in muslisms lands are hypocrites. if all wants shariyah than why they choose to write laws for themselves and abandon laws of ALLAH??? Isnt is a grand show of hypocricy????

First of all, how do YOU know they have abandoned the laws of Islam or if they haven't? stop talking out of your ass.

Grand show of hypocrisy is saying you're not a munafiq even though you are a hindu and judging others while worshiping idols.



Oh so we are from same great Nation. And U are wrong, ur nation is not butt buddy of America,but our neibhouring country is. Americans give them money and tell them what to do and what not to do. They often violate their sovereignty by sending their planes to bomb their innocent civilians saying that these kids, elderly, women are terrorists. I hope Now u have learnt who is butt-buddy of America.

funny you say that because you asked me what my country was and you were sure we were butt-buddies of America, though I do agree India IS the butt-buddy of america! Wasnt it recently you had like a gay day or something?

Plz bring ur reference from the authentic hindu scripture which says that caste system or wife burning is in accordance to Hindu religion. And if perfect religion cant be changed than why ur muslim brothers and sisters ask for favours from graves? And why they sing musical songs (melodious quawwalis) near those graves? Was it part of Islam?

Waiting for U to come ahead with suitable answers.

http://www.friesian.com/caste.htm
http://uwacadweb.uwyo.edu/religionet/er/hinduism/HORGS.HTM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_system_in_India#Genetic_analysis

and regarding the wife burning:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_(practice)

it took me like 2 seconds to find that by the way. And I learned it in... like 5th class? Did you slack off at school?

second, if Muslims did something that Islam forbids to do then its their fault not the fault of the religion because the religion hasn't changed a bit but it was in YOUR RELIGION that said certain individuals are better than the rest.

wait, you STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY QUESTION, let me type it again just to piss you off because even you know you don't have an answer to it.

you never answered why hindus created a caste system from THEIR religion, not from their people (meaning, it was not something non-practicing hindus did but rather thir religion deemed it so). It was in their religion to do so. You never answered why the wives were burned with the husband upon the husbands death which was also a part of Hindu religion. Most of all, why was this practice changed if it was a part of Hindu religion and if the religion was changed then how is it the perfect religion?


you never answered why hindus created a caste system from THEIR religion, not from their people (meaning, it was not something non-practicing hindus did but rather thir religion deemed it so). It was in their religion to do so. You never answered why the wives were burned with the husband upon the husbands death which was also a part of Hindu religion. Most of all, why was this practice changed if it was a part of Hindu religion and if the religion was changed then how is it the perfect religion?




you never answered why hindus created a caste system from THEIR religion, not from their people (meaning, it was not something non-practicing hindus did but rather thir religion deemed it so). It was in their religion to do so. You never answered why the wives were burned with the husband upon the husbands death which was also a part of Hindu religion. Most of all, why was this practice changed if it was a part of Hindu religion and if the religion was changed then how is it the perfect religion?


you never answered why hindus created a caste system from THEIR religion, not from their people (meaning, it was not something non-practicing hindus did but rather thir religion deemed it so). It was in their religion to do so. You never answered why the wives were burned with the husband upon the husbands death which was also a part of Hindu religion. Most of all, why was this practice changed if it was a part of Hindu religion and if the religion was changed then how is it the perfect religion?

Yes, I won't wait for your answers lol
 
Santoku, that was not just islamicliffe's definition, it is the Koran's, as the verses I cited earlier proved. People of every religion break the rules and redefine things. It's a fact of life.

So what is the Islamic name for them,what do you call them, if they are slaves then they are part and parcel of this discussion, if they are not slaves then they must be redefined and the work of a thousand years acknowledged.
 
Who are you to say who are they at war with?

I m none to say that,but am only reminding U what Islam says about these or present (Majority of not all) kind of so called muslims. U need the reference? Looks like U didnt like the truth for obvious reasons.


no comment

Good for U.

First of all, how do YOU know they have abandoned the laws of Islam or if they haven't? stop talking out of your ass.

Grand show of hypocrisy is saying you're not a munafiq even though you are a hindu and judging others while worshiping idols.

Lol at ur aquired ignorance. I know that they have abandoned laws of ALLAH everywhere in the muslim world coz their respective governments have chosen to write laws for them. And we see no resistance from Ummah. Iwonder which world U are living in that U dont even know that muslims have abandoned laws of ALLAH.

Whom I m worshipping is known to ALLAH, U havent yet asked me whom I worship still U are busy in cooking up things like a fake prophet. Plz wake up doing such individual attacks, its for ur welfare only. I m not judging any individual but a bunch of individuals who I see doing unislamic things like devouring haram Interest. thats why I dare to comment on that group of ppls. And plz stop writing obscene language, there are sisters too in this forum if U know. Havent U learned how to talk decently in places like this???


funny you say that because you asked me what my country was and you were sure we were butt-buddies of America, though I do agree India IS the butt-buddy of america! Wasnt it recently you had like a gay day or something?

LOL, few gay ppls celebrating on streets makes a whole nation of 1000 million ppls including urself butt buddy of america??? Wow at ur hatred for the nation U are living in. Ever consulted ur alim how islamic it is???

http://www.friesian.com/caste.htm
http://uwacadweb.uwyo.edu/religionet...uism/HORGS.HTM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_s...netic_analysis

and regarding the wife burning:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sati_(practice)

it took me like 2 seconds to find that by the way. And I learned it in... like 5th class? Did you slack off at school?

U are able to produce following four verses from Bhagvad Gita the only authentic hindu scripture,

[41] The works of Brahmins, Ks.atriyas, Vaishyas, and Shudras are different, in harmony with the three powers of their born nature.
[42] The works of a Brahmin are peace; self-harmony, austerity, and purity; loving-forgiveness and righteousness; vision and wisdom and faith.

[43] These are the works of a Ks.atriya: a heroic mind, inner fire, constancy, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity and noble leadership.

[44] Trade, agriculture and the rearing of cattle is the work of a Vaishya. And the work of the Shudra is service.


It clearly talks about the works given to them. Nowhere it says that one cast should be treated lowly than others. Its only cooked up story of religious haters. I hope U have understood at last.

Secondly, do U believe in holy quran? According to ur belief, all scriptures have been altered. So when U bring out scriptures to defame a religion, U are indirectly pointing ur fingers towards ALLAH. Coz Bhagvad Gita is nothing but words of ALLAH. Now its upto U whether U believe or not.

second, if Muslims did something that Islam forbids to do then its their fault not the fault of the religion because the religion hasn't changed a bit but it was in YOUR RELIGION that said certain individuals are better than the rest.

Exactly this what I have been trying to make U understand. Hinduism never says that shudras are worse than brahmins, still is hindus do it than its not fault of religion its fault of hindus only. And as for sati, U again failed to bring out any authentic source of ur baseless allegation.

wait, you STILL HAVEN'T ANSWERED MY QUESTION, let me type it again just to piss you off because even you know you don't have an answer to it.

LOL, I have answered ur questions, U havent yet answered my few questions from previous post. Plz read that carefully in case U have missed them, otherwise I assume that U have no answer to that, and I wont ask U again. Again I request U not to use some words in presence of sisters, its only a request if U are kind enough to listen.

Peace to U Indian brother.
 
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lol where do u weird multifaith hindus come from, you're either muslim or you're not, please don't use islamic terminology because Allah refers to the one true deity

if you really want to please Allah then give up on your hindu scriptures and hindu faith and follow islam as it is with no hindu extras
 
lol where do u weird multifaith hindus come from, you're either muslim or you're not, please don't use islamic terminology because Allah refers to the one true deity

if you really want to please Allah then give up on your hindu scriptures and hindu faith and follow islam as it is with no hindu extras

My dear brother,

U are missing something. U can see around U that there are a very few muslims left today. Proof is that they have abandoned the commands of holy quran. Now we have three choices, either we remain hindus which ALLAH has born us as, or we become munafiqeen, or we become muslims which is too hard to become coz those who swear by Islam are not muslims too. So we opt to remain hindus coz ALLAH wants us to be hindus, isnt it better than being hypocrites?

I hope U got the point, Now U can continue with ur trademark hindu bashing. LOL.

peace to U brother.
 
My dear brother,

U are missing something. U can see around U that there are a very few muslims left today. Proof is that they have abandoned the commands of holy quran. Now we have three choices, either we remain hindus which ALLAH has born us as, or we become munafiqeen, or we become muslims which is too hard to become coz those who swear by Islam are not muslims too. So we opt to remain hindus coz ALLAH wants us to be hindus, isnt it better than being hypocrites?

I hope U got the point, Now U can continue with ur trademark hindu bashing. LOL.

peace to U brother.

ok now you are one weird hindu :hiding: I don't know if I should bother

now does it matter is some muslims are hypocrites, why can't you become one and become an example for other muslims? are you saying there are no hindocrites?

being a hindu is not a good idea because theres only one place you're gonna end up after death which is HELL, if you are a good hindu you will not end up as a dog or a cow or a monkey or a baboon etc etc

now i hope yoU get the point and give up on hinduism as Allah does not want us to become hindus, so wake up
 
ok now you are one weird hindu :hiding: I don't know if I should bother

now does it matter is some muslims are hypocrites, why can't you become one and become an example for other muslims? are you saying there are no hindocrites?

being a hindu is not a good idea because theres only one place you're gonna end up after death which is HELL, if you are a good hindu you will not end up as a dog or a cow or a monkey or a baboon etc etc

now i hope yoU get the point and give up on hinduism as Allah does not want us to become hindus, so wake up

LOL brother, ur words tell it all, at least U are a good Muslim which all should aspire to be.

Brother, if some muslims were hypocrites than it would have not mattered, but the irony is that in absence of any real islamic nation across the world, we are forced to believe that majority of today's muslims are hypocrite. So if we become muslims, we will also end up being a hypocrite, which worries me. therefore I choose to become a better servent of ALLAH swt by remaining what I m.

I neve knew that its U who will determine who is gonna hell or paradise, I will try to pursuade U later when I get time to reserve me a birth where I wont find hypocrites, enough of these ppls.

I know that being a hindu is not a good idea,but at least better than being a hypocrite. I m sure U got the drift.

Peace to U brother.
 
So what is the Islamic name for them,what do you call them, if they are slaves then they are part and parcel of this discussion, if they are not slaves then they must be redefined and the work of a thousand years acknowledged.

This is not about semantics and as usual I'm not going to indulge people in a diversion to semantics from the topic. What we were talking about is about what the religion itself defines as slavery and the rules it sets on the matter. I hardly think that an exposition on the truth of that matter shouldn't be part and parcel of this discussion. It's absolutely essential to a discussion on this topic.

If by "work of a thousand years" you're referring to more of those instances of Muslims doing unIslamic things in the matter then the existence of these acts is certainly something I don't acknowledge--just like I acknowledge that the Conquistators pillaged and enslaved in the name of Christianity and the thugees murdered thousands while allegedly adhering to or basing their beliefs on Hindu doctrine. It's time that the world acknowledged that the only possible application such things could be to a discussion of what a religion itself teaches, when what it teaches is contrary, is pure ad hominem-based prejudice and/or aggression. No one ever has discussions about questioning the rule of not looking at your opponent's cards in poker because so many people break it and win repeatedly claiming to do they do for love of the game. These days, only religions get treatment like that.
 
myself said:
If by "work of a thousand years" you're referring to more of those instances of Muslims doing unIslamic things in the matter then the existence of these acts is certainly something I don't acknowledge--just like I acknowledge that the Conquistators pillaged and enslaved in the name of Christianity and the thugees murdered thousands while allegedly adhering to or basing their beliefs on Hindu doctrine.

I of course meant to say that it's not something I don't acknowledge. I don't know how to edit posts here.
 
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